This is page numbers 597 - 648 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.
Members Present
Honourable Roger Allen, Honourable Jim Antoine, Mr. Bell, Mr. Braden, Mr. Delorey, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Honourable Joe Handley, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Lee, Mr. McLeod, Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Nitah, Honourable Jake Ootes, Mr. Roland, Honourable Vince Steen, Honourable Tony Whitford.
-- Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
March 12th, 2002
Page 597
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Allen. Please be seated. Good afternoon, colleagues. Before we begin today's agenda, I wish to provide my ruling on the point of order raised on March 12, 2002 by the honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.
Speaker's Ruling
Prior to addressing this specific point of order I would like to make some comment on the purpose of a point of order, since we have had a number of those points of order in the last session and again in this session. A point of order is a question raised by a Member who believes that the rules or customary procedures of the House have been incorrectly applied or overlooked during the proceedings. Members may rise on points of order to bring to the attention of the Chair any breach of the relevance or repetition of the rules, unparliamentary remarks or any of our rules. Members are able to do so at virtually any time in the proceedings, provided the point of order is raised and concisely argued as soon as the irregularity occurs or as soon as practicable thereafter.
As a point of order concerns the interpretation of the rules, it is the responsibility of the Speaker, or Chair in committee of the whole, to determine its merits and to resolve the issue. Although Members frequently rise claiming a point of order, genuine points of order rarely occur. Indeed, points of order are often used by Members in an attempt to gain the floor to participate in debate, and in such cases, the Speaker will not allow the Member intervening to continue. This is the reason that when a Member is recognized on a point of order, you should only state which rule or practice you consider has been breached.
Our rules provide for brief debate on the point of order at the Speaker or Chair's discretion. I wish to advise that the Chairs have a responsibility to ensure impartiality and fairness when considering a point of order and will hear from Members if it is not clear whether a breach has occurred. When a point of order is raised, the Speaker attempts to rule on the matter immediately. However, if necessary, the matter may be taken under advisement and the Chair will come back to the House later with a formal ruling. As has been the case, there are occasions that when hearing the point of order, I do not need to reserve on my decision but can rule at the time of the occurrence. When this happens, I am of the view that this assists the House in dealing with its deliberations without being hampered by debate on points of order and waiting for a ruling. Once the Speaker's decision is rendered, the matter is no longer open to debate or discussion and the ruling cannot be appealed to the House.
I would now like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley, with respect to remarks made by the honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee, on March 11, 2002. The statements in question are, referring to unedited Hansard, page 1229:
The point that I was making is that -- and I have stated in there that I am not saying that the Minister did any wrong-doing or anything like that -- but it is the Minister who put this into the supplementary appropriation, and the headline on Friday said $500,000 for the pay out. That came from a public document, which is Supp 3.
If it is true, as he has been saying, that he knows his obligations under this contract and that he was not to do anything that would reveal it, for him to have put into a supplementary appropriation is a ground for questioning his conduct.
In raising the point of order, the honourable Member referred to Rules 23(h) and 23(i), which state:
23 In debate, a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member:
(h) makes allegations against another Member, a House officer or a witness;
(i) imputes false or hidden motives to another Member.
The Member for Weledeh, in making his point of order, stated that the information put forward by the Member for Range Lake was both factually incorrect, in that the Supp 3 was not for $500,000 but for $695,000 or so, and that he had a statutory obligation as Minister of Finance to put into the supplementary appropriations anything that is going to require additional spending. That appropriation is put in there because the Department of the Executive does not have the money to handle it.
Mr. Handley also stated in speaking to the point of order, and I quote from page 1239 of unedited Hansard, "She (Ms. Lee) is clearly imputing motives to me and second, is questioning my integrity."
I find that the statement of the Member for Range Lake does question the integrity and motives of Mr. Handley, and further suggests that in bringing forward the Supplementary Appropriation No. 3, he was doing so in a manner which breached confidential agreements.
I reviewed the comments of the honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee, in speaking to the point of order and found she did not offer any comment that would convince me to rule otherwise.
Therefore I rule that the honourable Member for Weledeh has a point of order; the statements made by the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee, being a contravention of Rules 23(h) and (i) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly. Such questioning of integrity is a serious matter with respect to any Member of this House, but it is particularly serious to level such allegations at the Minister of Finance, who has specific and statutory duties to this House. I therefore ask the Member for Range Lake whether she is prepared to retract the offending statements. Ms. Lee.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 598
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have no problem with retracting the offending statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 598
The Speaker Tony Whitford
The House will then consider that statement retracted. This ends the matter. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Deputy Premier, Mr. Antoine.
Minister's Statement 38-14(5): Premier Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 598
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the honourable Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House for the remainder of this week to participate in the GLOBE 2002 Conference in Vancouver, British Columbia. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Minister's Statement 38-14(5): Premier Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 598
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Minister's Statement 39-14(5): Northern Mines Ministers Conference
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 598
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Speaker, on April 4th, I will be co-chairing the first Northern Mines Ministers Conference in Yellowknife with Robert Nault, the federal Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
My counterparts in the Yukon and Nunavut agree there is a need to develop a healthy northern mining industry that will strengthen business and employment opportunities for northern communities and aboriginal people. This conference will provide an opportunity to review the key issues facing the northern mining industry in the North and to develop a plan to encourage northern mineral investment.
The conference will include a morning session with presentations from key stakeholders. Representatives from aboriginal economic development corporations, the National Round Table on the Environment and Economy, and mining companies such as BHP Billiton and Diavik have been invited to attend the session. A closed session in the afternoon will allow the Ministers to hold government-to-government discussions.
Mr. Speaker, the mining industry has been an important sector of our economy for many years. The Northwest Territories has the potential for new mineral discoveries. This government supports the responsible development of our mineral resources. We know key policy and investment initiatives are needed for balanced development to occur. I believe the Northern Mines Ministers Conference is a first step in ensuring this occurs. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Minister's Statement 39-14(5): Northern Mines Ministers Conference
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 598
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 598
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to talk about the tremendous contribution being made by the CT scan machine at the Stanton hospital in serving every resident in the Northwest Territories, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dollars it is saving the Government of the Northwest Territories and the taxpayers.
As you are well aware, Mr. Speaker, this machine was purchased with the $2.3 million raised by the Stanton Hospital Foundation about three years ago. We were also fortunate to obtain a mammography and two colour ultrasound machines at the same time.
In its very short life, the statistics on the performance of this machine are absolutely astounding. I have learned that the machine has seen about 3,000 people and has taken approximately 1.2 million images. I am also advised that the cost of each visit, or a person seen by this machine, is calculated at between $500 and $800.
Mr. Speaker, before we had this machine, we had to send out residents to Edmonton or other centres to get the CT scans done. The simple math will tell us that just in cost savings for the actual procedure of taking the images, we have saved upwards of $1.5 million. If we added the cost of travel, accommodations and incidentals that Health would have paid to send all these people south, we are talking about millions in savings. This machine has paid for itself over and over again. It is the money from the private residents and corporate donors that has made this possible.
Mr. Speaker, I have also learned that about 10 to 15 percent of the work being done with this scan machine is done on behalf of the Government of Nunavut, which is billed back to the Government of Nunavut. All in all, this has become a cash cow for the government, probably adding to its current surplus.
Mr. Speaker, I am afraid I must report the less than perfect ending to this story. I have also learned there is only one person funded to run this machine, and only one person has been doing it since its inception. I do not know of any other position in the Territories that places such a burden on one person.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I have learned that there is no program or resources in place at the moment that would provide for training of additional people to operate this machine, other than the very basic...
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee.
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, lack of training and resources for training means that when this person has to be absent for any reason, this machine is not being used at optimal capacity. This should raise serious questions in our mind. Why is the government not funding more money to find more people to run this machine? There is a waiting list for the procedure, so it cannot be that there is no demand. Besides, the machine is capable of running more than eight hours per day, but having one person staffed to operate the machine and do all the paperwork, we are really not recognizing the value of this machine or the person who operates it. Most of all, the tremendous cost savings that this machine is accruing to the government and our health system.
Mr. Speaker, I urge the Minister to look at this situation. The residents and corporate donors have done their part. It is now time for the Minister and the government to do their share. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be pursuing questions on this matter later. Thank you.
-- Applause
Operation Of The Stanton Regional Hospital Ct Scan Machine
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.
Northern Pipeline Development
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak on the issue around economic development, especially pipelines. Mr. Speaker, coming from a region that a number of years ago was considered to be on the brink of shutdown, the community of Inuvik, when after the last oil and gas boom in the Delta, the oil companies had shut down and pulled out. The Canadian Forces Services shut down the base there. Then, the Government of the Northwest Territories started pulling out positions.
You could walk down the streets of Inuvik and you would rarely run into anyone with excitement and a jump in their footsteps. Nowadays, we have that, Mr. Speaker. Again, it is because of the private sector and somewhat to this government as well.
Mr. Speaker, the issue around pipelines, as we know, there is a real push in the Northwest Territories now for development and developing a pipeline that would go down the valley. Involved in that is the aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories, who were not before. Twenty-five years ago when the Berger Inquiry went around the valley and said no more development until the people are ready to go, Mr. Speaker, the people of the Delta have been able to take advantage of what they have been able to do over the last 25 years. Yet we now have people in the business sector involved in joint ventures with a lot of the companies. Mr. Speaker, I think that potential is there throughout the Northwest Territories if we take the right steps.
One of the concerns that I would have, Mr. Speaker, is again because I am up from the northern part of this country, is that we are ready to go and different places in the Northwest Territories, the groups are at different levels of self-government discussions and land claims. That could once again possibly shut the door.
I think we need to get information out there for ourselves and residents of the Northwest Territories to ensure that we have all the information, the accurate information, when it comes to dealing with these mega-projects. I will have questions for the appropriate Minister during question period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Northern Pipeline Development
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 599
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, from March 17th to the 23rd, athletes and coaches from across the Northwest Territories will gather in Iqaluit, Nunavut, and Nuuk, Greenland, to participate in the 17th annual Arctic Winter Games.
In the past few weeks, Mr. Speaker, we have seen a lot of hype on TV about the Olympics. Although these Games might not match the same calibre as the Olympics that we have seen on TV, as far as our northern athletes are concerned, these are our Olympic Games.
I am a very strong supporter of the Arctic Winter Games, Mr. Speaker, having been involved with them for many years. My first involvement with the Games was back during the 5th Arctic Winter Games in 1978. At that time, I took part in moving athletes and spectators back and forth between Pine Point and Hay River, probably the only passenger train service that was ever available in the Northwest Territories. The passenger train was called the Inukshuk Express, and I have many fond memories of that train.
Mr. Speaker, it takes a lot of commitment and dedication from many organizations, athletes, coaches, volunteers and administrators to make the Arctic Winter Games a success. Of course, I cannot forget the parents. They play a very large role in transporting athletes, billeting, helping at camps and supporting our athletes as they go through the regional trials and at the Games themselves.
I want to commend and congratulate everyone involved in making the 17th annual Arctic Winter Games possible. I would especially like to congratulate the following athletes from my constituency: Meagan Cooke, ice hockey; Meagan Delorey, basketball; Rick Leonard, wrestling; Corey Coady, ice hockey; Danny Brown, ice hockey; Jeremy Planidin, ice hockey; Joey Hiebert, ice hockey; Erin Hiebert, volleyball; Danny Jackson, wrestling; Kris Desjarlais, ice hockey; Andy McKay, Dene Games; and Matthew Davies, cross country skiing.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind these athletes about the Games, what they are and what they stand for, and I would like to wish them all the best. I would like to quote the words of Minister Vince Steen: "The Arctic Winter Games are not only an athletic competition, but also an international celebration of friendship under the banner of sportsmanship and fair play. Our athletes are encouraged and supported to do their...
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his important statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Delorey.
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. "Our athletes are encouraged and supported to do their best as representatives of the Northwest Territories at this international competition."
Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish the athletes and everyone involved in the Arctic Winter Games success and hope they make many lasting friendships. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Hay River North Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time, I would like to bring attention to the matter of access to development capital, access to loans and access to basic business services in the communities outside the major centres.
Mr. Speaker, I have previously brought this matter to the attention of this government and I see the need to once again raise the issue. The Business Program Review Committee completed a review on the single window concept that would see the amalgamation of the business programs offered by the NWT Business Credit Corporation, the NWT Development Corporation, Community Futures and RWED.
Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that this single window will not work unless another option is provided to persons or businesses seeking development capital, loans and support services. Mr. Speaker, as an example, if I am turned down by one of the banks for a loan, I have an option to go to another commercial lender. However, with this one-window concept, if I am turned down by this new agency, I will then have no options.
Mr. Speaker, with the increased business opportunities it is now possible for persons in business in the aboriginal communities to participate in the development that is occurring around us. Therefore, it is important that these communities have access and options to programs that support new businesses. The organizations that provide development services must also consider the political environment of the community and the individual character of the applicant when conducting evaluations. In the absence of this approach, many businesses in our small communities were not provided for or even considered by the banks.
Mr. Speaker, it is here that I wish to inform and make this government aware of another development lender in the Northwest Territories. This other developmental lender has been around for approximately 11 years. It is 100 percent owned and operated by the Metis and Dene of the Northwest Territories. All of the regions in the Northwest Territories are represented on its board of directors. It administers loans, contributions and aftercare programs for aboriginal businesses.
It has an agency relationship with Aboriginal Business Canada, and most importantly, in addition to conducting a formal business evaluation, it considers the person or persons involved to ensure the application is given due consideration.
Mr. Speaker, this organization is the NWT Dene-Metis Development Fund, an aboriginal capital corporation that commenced operation in 1991. Seed capital from this organization was provided by the Government of Canada. Today, this organization finds...
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. McLeod.
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories Dene-Metis Development Fund today finds itself under-capitalized and is seeking additional capital to ensure long-term viability. Mr. Speaker, the support of this government is essential to confirm that it not only supports big business but it is also committed to supporting our northern businesses that are providing the needed business support to businesses outside of the major centres. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of RWED during question period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Access To Business Programs And Services In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.
Tu Nedhe Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 600
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak about the Arctic Winter Games, an international gathering starting next week. The Games provide an opportunity for young men and women to participate in their sport of choice, the sport they excel in, the opportunity to exchange ideas and create new friendships with people of the same sport and different sports from different countries.
It will be a great experience for all Northerners participating. I would like to congratulate people from my communities that I represent, specifically, Mr. Speaker: Mr. Damien Kalilik, who is participating in the Dene games. He is from Lutselk'e; Travis Guild, a badminton player from Fort Resolution; Dexter Lafferty, a musher; Frank Lafferty, who is a coach for the dog sledding; Kirk Fabien, dog sledding; Frank Fabien, who is a coach in that area; and Freda Elief, as part of the mission staff.
Mr. Speaker, in 1988, I was lucky enough to represent the Northwest Territories in the Arctic Winter Games in Fairbanks, Alaska, in the snowshoe biathlon, so I personally know the excitement that comes along with the Games and the experience and the wonderful memories they bring home. I wish all northern athletes, all the territorial athletes, luck and I hope they have a great experience and fond memories that they will cherish for years to come.
Mr. Speaker, I have been critical in the past about the Arctic Winter Games and the lack of participation at the community level. Just based on the list of people being represented from my communities, I am still not totally satisfied, but I see there are some improvements. I will be travelling with the Minister to the Arctic Winter Games and see first hand the athletes participating and representing our great Territory in this, what Mr. Delorey calls our Olympics.
I would like to say good luck to all athletes and congratulate them in advance on their participation. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Tu Nedhe Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.
Replacement Of Wha Ti Community Hall
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am standing today to make a statement about the loss of a community hall in one of my ridings. This is a follow-up to a statement I made earlier in this session. I received a fax today from the Wha Ti charter community, signed by Chief Charlie Nitsiza.
Mr. Speaker, this community is without a place for the youth and also has no place for their cultural activities. This community will have no building to host their meetings during the Dogrib Annual Assembly this fall, Mr. Speaker. I have discussed this with the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and it seems the department will not be able to deliver the new community hall this spring.
Mr. Speaker, the community has come up with another plan that might get them through to this fall's Assembly, but this is only if the department cooperates with them, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister responsible for MACA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Replacement Of Wha Ti Community Hall
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two weeks ago, a family in Yellowknife and my constituency lost a son through a tragic accident. Chris Argue was 25 years old. He was the brother of Mike, a competitor at the national ski level. He was the son of Marsha, an advocate and well-known champion of the rights and the situation of disadvantaged women in the NWT. He was the son of John Argue, as you know, Mr. Speaker, my constituency assistant and a friend and colleague of all of us in this Legislature and across the Government of Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, where John worked for, I think, some 30 years.
Mr. Speaker, when tragedy strikes, a family loses not only a son or a daughter, a parent or grandparent, the community loses something too. The community loses a friend, a companion, perhaps a co-worker, a competitor and a leader. When life and love is lost at such an early age - Chris was only 25 - that loss seems unbearable. However, here in the North, tragedy strikes often, too often, but our communities come together.
The celebration of Chris' life a week ago was, for myself, my wife and hundreds of other Yellowknifers who attended, a remarkable event in the love that it expressed for Chris and for the family, for the courage that was shown in speaking at a very difficult time, and, Mr. Speaker, in the gratitude that was shown for those who were with Chris and who knew him for his short time with us.
It happens in all our communities. We come together to somehow help make the loss, if not acceptable, at least more manageable and perhaps a bit easier to understand.
Mr. Speaker, I reflect on the words of one of Chris' very well-known and very dear friends, Jesse Allen, that we should never take for...
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there nays? There are no nays. You may conclude, Mr. Braden.
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the words of a dear friend of Chris', I want to reflect on his message that we should never take for granted those whom we love, and that we should cherish and respect each other every single day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Reflections On The Passing Of Chris Argue
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Families With Special Needs Children
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 601
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak about the challenges faced by families with special needs children. The education system, classroom assistants and special needs assistants support the education and care of these children while they are of school age and during school hours. However, Mr. Speaker, there are many other times during which these families need support, for which there are few resources, services or respite. Many parents who have children with disabilities do not have the luxury of not working outside their homes. They often hold down full-time employment, some being required to work evenings or weekends. They often have other children in the family as well.
Depending on the degree of special care required, just running errands or grocery shopping presents a challenge if there is not a support network or other family members able to assist. These circumstances can place serious stress on parents, or the entire family unit for that matter. Sometimes these circumstances exist for a number of years, and we have all heard of some of the tragic results reported recently in the media of families who took drastic measures in the state of prolonged periods of time without support.
It is interesting that governments will so readily split families up by placing special needs children in very costly institutional settings, or pay for foster care placements where they will support a foster family up to $90 per day but will offer so little or no support to families struggling on their own. There are also often significant financial stresses for things such as supplies required to care for their children.
We need to find more ways to support families who devote all of their time and affection to raising their disabled children in their own homes. Later I will have questions for the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services on the kind of support we can offer as a government. Thank you.
-- Applause
Families With Special Needs Children
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.
Daffodil Days -- Canadian Cancer Society Fundraising Campaign
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to draw attention to an annual campaign carried out by the Canadian Cancer Society, which is called Daffodil Days. It is going to take place this year between April 2nd to the 5th. Essentially, you can order a bunch of daffodils, I think it is $5 a bunch, send them to loved ones and it is a great way to raise money for the Canadian Cancer Society. We do have a local Alberta-NWT division.
Mr. Speaker, I am drawing attention to this today because I understand they are having some difficulty in fundraising this year. Past years have been very good, but there was some confusion around some of the advertising. I wanted to clear that up and let people know they can phone locally, 920-4428, for information or order forms. They do have a local office on the 3rd floor of the Graham Bromley Building. I will also have this information in my office, so if any constituents or Members are interested in getting this information, they can contact me.
Mr. Speaker, I think that all of us have had loved ones in our families who have been touched by cancer at one point or another. I think it is a very good initiative and a great way to raise funds for cancer research. I hope my colleagues and members of the Northwest Territories will take up the cause here and raise money for Daffodil Days. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Daffodil Days -- Canadian Cancer Society Fundraising Campaign
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thebacha Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like my colleagues, Mr. Delorey, and the young Mr. Nitah for Tu Nedhe, I would like to speak briefly about the Arctic Winter Games and the people that have made these Games possible, the people that are going to go from my community. I made reference to the youth of my colleague because he indicated he went in 1988 to the Arctic Winter Games. I went, as one of the more ancient Members of this House, in 1970 to the first Games here in Yellowknife...
-- Applause
...but I do know that it is an experience that sticks with you. It gives you a chance to participate at a level that probably you will not -- at my age now, I will be lucky to be able to lift both legs off the floor at the same time if I sat in a chair, let alone compete at that level. It is a very, very important time for the young folks, and I want to commend the volunteers, coaches, parents as well as the athletes themselves.
I would like to offer my best wishes to those people from my constituency, as well as all the athletes from the Northwest Territories. I hope they have the time of their lives, that they travel safely and that they come back draped in gold. Thank you.
-- Applause
Thebacha Arctic Winter Games Participants
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.
Inuvik Twin Lakes Mid-term Review
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 602
Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been over a year since I shared with my esteemed colleagues in this House the socio-economic profile of my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes. Mr. Speaker, I would like to share another important document that guides me through my work as the MLA for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Mr. Speaker, as the MLA for Inuvik Twin Lakes, I recently commissioned an interim review of my performance to date. I would like to share some of the highlights with my colleagues in this Assembly. The questions were designed to seek opinions from my constituents as to how I might more effectively serve them and to determine what issues they consider important for the future of Inuvik, the Mackenzie Delta region and the NWT as a whole.
Mr. Speaker, the findings of this survey are very similar to the questions and concerns that my colleagues raise in this House. Mr. Speaker, my constituents have placed housing far ahead of any other issue. Education, training for youth, health care and the social and environmental consequences of economic development, particularly in the oil and gas sector, fall far behind housing issues. More specifically, as my colleagues are already aware of, is my continued friendly advocacy to promote alternative lending agencies that will allow for more access to financial assistance.
Mr. Speaker, this review provides me with an analysis of what my constituents' expectations are of me as their MLA. Many of my constituents have only a modest awareness of my Ministerial responsibilities. Others have said that I have too many portfolios, which causes me to lack focus.
While there were variations between different demographic segments of my electorate, I want to assure the people of Inuvik Twin Lakes that I am aware of all the issues that are important to you as my constituents. It is my sincere intention to determine where this government must focus its resources to improve the quality of life, particularly for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
In concluding, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank those who responded to the questionnaire, and also to Jack Cunningham and Rob Cook of Gwich'in Graphics for compiling this data and formatting it. I will be tabling this interim review tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Inuvik Twin Lakes Mid-term Review
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 603
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Allen. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.
Return To Question 96-14(5): School Grade Promotion Policy
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 603
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Nitah on February 27, 2002, regarding school grade promotion policy.
Mr. Nitah asked if the Department of Education, Culture and Employment keeps statistics on how many students from small communities have to go back a grade when they move and go to school in a larger centre.
The Department of Education, Culture and Employment does not keep statistics on student placement. Placement decisions are made at the school level and involve many factors, including age, social development of the student and the size of classes. There are often children working at several grade levels in any one classroom.
A guiding document for student placement is the department's inclusive schooling directive, which stipulates that all students have the right to participate in educational programs offered in a regular classroom setting with their age peers. For the most part, that is what is happening in NWT schools.
There may be situations where a decision is made not to place a student in a regular classroom or with his or her peers, but such a decision would be arrived at with much deliberation and would involve discussions with the students, parents or guardians.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 96-14(5): School Grade Promotion Policy
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 603
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the Gallery. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 603
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a young guy who has something to do with the transcripts we receive every day while we are in session. His name is Will Chung. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 603
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the Gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 603
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a visitor from my constituency in the gallery, Father Joe Daley. He is a priest with the Catholic Church and he administers to his congregation in a whole bunch of communities. He represents more communities than I do because he represents Fort Providence and Kakisa, as well as Fort Simpson, Jean Marie River, Nahanni Butte, Trout Lake, Wrigley and Fort Liard. Welcome him to the House. Thank you.
-- Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 603
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Representation with a different objective. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to welcome everyone who has come to watch the Legislative Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 603
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to my Member's statement earlier today, I wonder if the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services could respond on the lack of human resources to operate this very important CT scan machine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 603
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 603
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to tour Stanton Hospital and see that very impressive piece of equipment that my colleague refers to. Very clearly, the Stanton board and the Stanton Foundation have done a fine job. Through the budgeting process and the program delivery component, the Stanton board and their very capable staff address those particular issues.
As we are now moving into the business planning process for the upcoming year, I am sure that issue, if it needs to be addressed, will be in there. Thank you.
Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I gather from the answer the Minister has given that he is basically leaving it to the Stanton board to make this decision. As I stated, I think I have given a lot of facts there that should alert the Minister to really look at this and pay extra attention. Does the Minister not agree with that, Mr. Speaker?
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am paying very close attention to that particular issue, as I am with all the authorities as they look at the appropriate budget for all the health and social services systems across the Territories.
I would also like to point out that this particular piece of equipment has a radiology technologist and an imaging clerk employed to operate and support the operation of a CT scan. They also do work elsewhere when they are not engaged there. We have worked with Stanton to make sure we have the resources available. The O and M costs for this machine are about $365,000 per year. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what I need to reiterate to the Minister is the fact that this machine is saving, by conservative measure, millions of dollars for the government. We also know that the Stanton board is one of the many boards that is experiencing a deficit and they may not be able to handle the resources from within.
If that is the case, will the Minister consider giving extra resources to this money-making operation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Stanton hospital is a territorial resource and it does provide services to all of the residents of the Northwest Territories, along with access to the CT scan machine. We are working every day with the authorities across the Northwest Territories health and social services system to deal with budget issues, to listen to the concerns raised in this House in terms of adequacy of funding and where there are service gaps.
We have a machine in place that is providing a valuable service. We will continue to see that it is operated and used and provides the effective service it is now doing. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are support staff there but the fact is there is only one person who can operate this machine. The RCMP does not even post one person in their facilities. Will the Minister not agree that he must put extra resources into this? This is for the benefit of everyone in the government.
Supplementary To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I agree there is a need to work with the Stanton board and the rest of the authorities to ensure that all of the services we provide are adequately resourced, and that the services are there to provide uninterrupted access to the very important services they provide. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Question 203-14(5): Ct Scan Operating Personnel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 604
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at this time, my question is directed to the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, in the area of pipelines, following up on my Member's statement.
Mr. Speaker, when the issue of pipelines comes up in the Northwest Territories, there is much discussion. A number of different options seem to come to the table. I would like clarity on this issue and ask the Minister responsible to provide some information.
For example, the Mackenzie Delta Producers Group, they are looking at a standalone system from the Delta down to northern Alberta. When they talk about Alaska and Prudhoe Bay, they will be two separate systems. Is that not correct? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding of what the honourable Member is asking is yes, there are two separate systems, to our understanding. The Mackenzie Delta Producers are beginning to do work to put together a proposal to take the Delta gas into the Alberta system, whereas the other proposals I am hearing are the over-the-top one. The major emphasis there is taking Alaska gas from the Prudhoe Bay area over the top and down the valley. This proposal is to bring this gas, along with the Delta gas, down into the U.S. market. It is two different concepts that I understand is there.
Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, my information is that even if both projects were a go, we would see two lines down the valley. Is that not correct?
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we understand it today, it still has a long way to go. There are proposals and plans in the development. If the scenario is as the honourable Member laid out, yes, there will be two different lines, as far as we understand it at this time. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as well, before a line would be built, is it not in fact true that producers would have to sign up, in the sense of guaranteeing supply to flow through? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the idea of a pipeline is to take natural gas down to southern markets and the producers are the ones who own the gas. The producers will be the major player in any type of pipeline scenario. So yes, the producers have to be involved and have to be involved in the decision on how they are going to transport this gas to market.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister inform us as to where the Mackenzie Delta project is at this point? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Mackenzie Valley Producer Group and the Mackenzie Valley Aboriginal Pipeline Corporation, this consortium has completed, as we all know, a feasibility study for the development of onshore gas in the Mackenzie Delta.
On January 7th, this consortium announced they have completed work on their feasibility study and that they are now proceeding with work on the project definition phase. They have a number of timelines they have announced.
This first quarter of this year, 2002, they plan to submit a preliminary information package as well as in the third quarter, towards the third quarter of 2003. They plan on submitting a full pipeline application in about a little over a year. Their plan now is to, in the first quarter of 2005, in three years time, if they receive the project approval they will make final project decisions. By the second quarter of 2008, in about six years time, they hope to have the construction completed and commence production.
This consortium is working now on the pre-development agreement. This is a contractual arrangement that sets out the relationship between the Mackenzie Valley Aboriginal Pipeline Corporation, as well as the future operators of the project. This is what is going on at this point in time. That is all we know for now, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Question 204-14(5): Pipeline Infrastructure Development Options
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is directed to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. The Business Program Review Committee has recently completed their review on the single window concept.
I wanted to ask the Minister, how will the single window concept assist in bringing or making additional basic services, such as banking, bookkeeping, accounting, legal and business support, into communities not currently receiving the service? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 605
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Business Program Review the honourable Member mentioned was a committee that was set up to review how the different agencies of this government, namely the Business Credit Corporation and the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, as well as Community Futures committees in the regions, how they are working. As a result of that, they have done their work and they have provided the people who are interested, the stakeholders, to look at what they have done and make comment to the department.
We are developing an action plan at this point in time. The review was to look at how we could get these agencies to work closer together and maybe form a single organization to provide the services they are currently doing. As you know, the Business Credit Corporation, like a bank, is a loan agency. The Northwest Territories Development Corporation is an organization that works and has joint ventures and provides those types of services to organizations. Community Futures also provides loans at the community level. The types of services the honourable Member has mentioned are more specific.
I just want to mention that we have started this Bankers Commission that my predecessor kicked off. The first meeting of this Bankers Commission took place last week, as representatives of banks and members of our communities, to start working on this.
If this is the kind of banking services the honourable Member is talking about to help the communities, the Bankers Commission has just started their work. They are telling each other what they are doing and seeing the scope of work required. Perhaps this is one of the areas they should look at, providing these kinds of services.
I am not too sure what the outcome of this meeting was. I have not been briefed on it, but in our preliminary meetings, those subjects, the actual cash flow and the actual type of support that people in the communities need in terms of banking was discussed. I am sure this is an area that we will also be focussing on. Thank you.
Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has provided information on the concept of a single window. I did not hear in his answer how it is going to provide any more services than we already have, any additional services.
My next question is regarding business support. I am sure the Minister is aware that an important part of business advice and support is aftercare. If this government is not willing to provide that service, then it should consider whether or not it should even write the cheque for a loan or a contribution. I want to ask the Minister if there will be a commitment from his department to address the lack of aftercare support to small business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, we have the Business Development Fund. We have people within our departments who are there to work with the communities once they start their businesses. If they ask for support, that is what they are supposed to do.
If that is not what they are doing, then I need to know about it and I need to work with our staff, with businesses in the communities and perhaps with the MLAs, to see how we can best provide the services they are supposed to be providing.
As a Member in this House and as a Minister, I always believed that as a government, we are here to provide programs and services to the people in the communities. If that is not happening then I need to know about it. We are looking at it with this department.
There is also the Community Futures organization that has just been put in place within the last couple of years. The idea there is the different businesses that are existing, the smaller businesses in our communities, have been asking for the types of services that perhaps the honourable Member is concerned about, which is once the small businesses start, they may need additional help and dollars to do something and expand and enhance their businesses. The Community Futures organization is there to provide that service. If there is a need to help the smaller businesses become more successful, the Community Futures organizations would have representatives from all the surrounding communities in the region on this board. They are there to provide that service.
We in RWED have taken funding from headquarters and put it into the regions for the Community Futures board to work right at the community level with the people in the community. It is two years old. It is new. There may be a learning experience or problems there, so then we have to look at how we can improve on that. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod. Before I go to Mr. McLeod, I would just like to remind Members of Rule 38. In question period, questions and replies should be as brief and to the point as possible. There is only 60 minutes allowed for question period. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 606
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, up until now, we have had different government agencies that were available to provide loans to our communities. All of these agencies were always considered the lender of last resort. However, there were different agencies that businesses in our communities could approach. With this new concept, it really restricts that.
I would like to ask the Minister, has he considered talking to other outside agencies, such as the Northwest Territories Dene-Metis Development Fund, to see if that is a viable option to the single window concept?
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at this bankers forum, there is a representative from the Dene-Metis Development Loan, Mr. Rocky Simpson. If he is not on that board, then he is very familiar with it. He brought that to our attention, that they are an alternative source of funding for Dene and Metis businesses from the communities.
I am aware of it. I have not really sat down with the officials from the department to see how the department is working with the Dene-Metis Loan Fund. I still need to do that. I would like to let the Member know that I am aware of the Dene-Metis Loan Fund. How it is going to fit into this single window approach with the Business Credit Corporation and the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, I have not asked that question, but I will, following this. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I reviewed the Business Financing Commission membership this morning and I did not see any representation from the Northwest Territories Dene-Metis Development Fund. I would ask if the Minister could confirm that Mr. Rocky Simpson is representing the Northwest Territories Dene-Metis Development Fund. If not, if they could commit to appointing someone. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman who is on the Bankers Commission is Rocky Simpson, who brought this matter to our attention. I do not know if he is on the Dene-Metis Loan Fund or not, but I will confirm that. As to appointing someone to the board, the board is already set up and there are alternates. We will look at that. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Question 205-14(5): Business Program Review Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.
Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for Minister Allen in his responsibility for the Housing Corporation. Last week, Mr. Speaker, I noted how much difficulty I had obtaining some information about contracts from a number of agencies connected to the government. I think it is important that the public have access to contract payments that are made by this government and by its agencies.
I would like to ask the Minister, will the Housing Corporation move to adopt the same policy that the GNWT has of publishing, each quarter, every contract payment over $5,000? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen.
Return To Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We currently publish once annually. I am prepared to compromise and suggest we publish semi-annually. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Question 206-14(5): Quarterly Contracting Reports
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I had questions for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development about hunters and trappers and the funding programs in place for our harvesters. Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the Minister for any of the programs they have out there. I am fully in support of any help we can get to our harvesters.
In some of the information we received, we learned there are approximately 1,000 trappers out there that receive funding. I was wondering if the Minister could inform this House as to what criteria they use to define who a hunter or a trapper is? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 607
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of people in the North, namely aboriginal people, who have a general hunting license. They are eligible at any time to take up trapping. If they do, then the GHL, their general hunting license number, is recorded when they sell the furs.
As well, there are also a few people who have special general hunting licenses, who are also eligible to sell fur through trapping or hunting through the department. There are two types of ways of identifying people who sell furs.
Having said that, according to the Workers' Compensation Board, the Renewable Resources Harvesters Program regularly and actively engages people who are engaged in hunting, fishing and trapping for a livelihood. At least 25 percent of the harvesters gross income, including about $7,000 for country foods, is derived from hunting, fishing and trapping. These are people who are eligible for the Workers' Compensation Board who are principally engaged.
Generally, the question I think was mainly who are trappers? Trappers are the GHL holders, or the special GHL holders who sell fur and they are recorded. Thank you.
Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also in the same information I was getting yesterday, he identified approximately 100 fishermen. I would like to know, Mr. Speaker, what criteria is used to define a fisherman? Are those all commercial fishermen on Great Slave Lake or is this across the Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the harvesting of renewable resources and the fishing aspect, the mandate of the fisheries falls under the mandate of the Government of Canada under the Fisheries Act, whereas the Trapping Program falls under the GNWT's mandate under the Wildlife Act.
Under the Fisheries Act, the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans issues commercial fishing licenses in the Northwest Territories. There is a total of about 160 commercial fishing licenses issued across the Northwest Territories, I am told. Approximately 60 plus licenses are from Great Slave Lake. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has also been mentioned that some of the money is being earmarked for training for youth to get involved in traditional harvesters program, traditional lifestyles. Could the Minister indicate how much money is being spent on training programs for youth in the harvesters industry? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have that number readily in front of me. I will get that number to the honourable Member on trapper training. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the big, contentious issues that fishermen have tried to address for a long time is the winter fishery with respect to gas that they burn during the winter fishery on the lake because they are off-road. They pay full taxes on the gas that they use in the wintertime. They have tried unsuccessfully for many years to get this issue looked at and addressed. I was wondering if the Minister could commit to relooking at this issue and seeing if there is anything that can be done for the fishermen in that area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to work with the other Members on this Cabinet but I certainly will take a good look at it. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Question 207-14(5): Criteria For Harvesters' Support
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. In my Member's statement I talked about the need for support for families with special needs children. I would like the Minister to, if he could, outline any kind of financial support there may be for families with extra costs related to their children's needs, things such as equipment and supplements and other types of supplies they would need in the care of their children in their own home. Thank you.
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if it is a medical situation, then we would be working through the department to see what assistance is available. We would first look to see what the family can afford, what their own possible insurance could provide for. If it is a permanent disability, then we would consider it under social assistance to see if there is a qualification there. If it is support resources other than cash, then we would be working with social workers. We would be working with public health. We would be working with the health authorities to try to determine what supports are needed to in fact try to assist the family to keep the child at home. Thank you.
Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 608
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have heard in this House recently in consideration of the budget that this government expends an extraordinary amount of money when children are taken out of their homes and placed in institutions or placed in other people's homes.
I am just wondering if it is possible to expand the support for these families through services that might be available through existing institutions. I know a parent of a disabled child had to take a child to the hospital, for example, in order just to attend a meeting that we were having. We do have these institutions and infrastructure in many of the communities where they may not be at full capacity, where there are staff and facilities available. Is it possible to expand the role of any of these institutions to offer things like respite or temporary care of children with needs? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are currently four facilities that provide extended care; Stanton, H.H. Williams, Fort Smith and Inuvik. The Member raises a good point. I have already been made aware of the concern from groups. Right now, the current definition of respite care tends to be based on a medical definition of what respite is. Very clearly, there is a need to look at this definition and recognize that there may be other reasons than medical. There may be social reasons that require respite care that have nothing to do with the child possibly being sick or requiring medical attention, but meaning the respite that my colleague talked about.
Is it possible to look at other ways of doing this? Yes it is. If there are suggestions and direction that the Member or the Standing Committee on Social Programs could provide, I would be very interested in looking at those. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Another form of respite care would be having someone come into the home to care for the child. Although people may be working and do not qualify under income support, you would not describe them as indigent, they may be working but it still may be very financially burdensome to them to have respite come into their home.
Is there any program currently in the government now to assist families that would just need a half-day or a day where they could just get away and do things they need to do and have someone come into the home and care for the child? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, we are seriously looking at the definition of what qualifies as respite care. We are also looking at trying to enhance the continuing care homecare services that we provide, to assist in every way possible to keep people who require support, the elderly, the disabled, in their own homes. People who require support but we do not necessarily want to have them in a facility tying up resources when they are probably far better off if we work with them in their homes.
Yes, we are looking at that through the Continuing Care Strategy, which will be done in the next few months. As well, as I have indicated, the definition of respite care is going to be reviewed. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the assessments of the level of need and care required for some of these children are required to be done by professional people. Do we have an efficient and adequate means of assessing needs to determine services? Provided these definitions of different types of support are changed, do we have an adequate system in place right now for assessing the needs of children so they can have services matched to those needs? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, very clearly, the area of specialized assessment services, either for child welfare issues, psychiatric or psychological issues or medical assessments, require work. Often, we have to look for those services. In some cases, I know of families that have had to in fact obtain their own from jurisdictions outside the Northwest Territories. It is an area that needs work.
We are also looking at the current classification system that we use, which is level one, two and three, and trying to come up with possibly a more effective and relevant classification system. We want to do this so that we can in fact recognize the individual needs better. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Question 208-14(5): Special Needs Support To Families
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 609
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, the Honourable Vince Steen. My question for the Minister is, as Wha Ti is without a community hall and the department is unable to deliver the package this spring, would they be willing to support them in bringing up a building that is in existence so they could use it for the annual assembly? It is just a shell. All it needs is mechanical, electrical and plumbing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department is willing to work with the community to see how we can address them having a suitable facility for upcoming events. We are also aware that the community should be entitled to some insurance from the building that was lost, so we are willing to balance that off with the needs of the community and see what we can come up with as to having something in place for the community when events are taking place this summer. Thank you.
Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if his department is going to make use of the winter road season to bring in the materials that are needed to support the community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are aware that some of the materials that are going to have to be used to upgrade that facility will have to come through the winter road. However, we still have to come to some kind of agreement with the community as to what they would need in the way of assistance. We do not have any idea yet how much they will collect from the insurance. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if his department will work with the community and try to do this as soon as they can. One way of doing it is to meet with the leaders, if the Minister can commit to meeting with them soon. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am aware there is some urgency now that the community has lost their existing hall. However, I am told that they still have the option of using the gym in the school for meetings. Furthermore, the building that was constructed was constructed for the purpose of holding summer assemblies. This is what the community is looking forward to. We are willing to see whether or not the community has sufficient facilities right now to accommodate their gatherings. If not, then I am willing to have the department assist them if necessary. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When an annual assembly happens, more than one building is needed, otherwise electronic equipment and everything has to be moved for the cultural activities that follow meetings in the evenings. He does have a good point about the gym, but I would like to ask the Minister if he can set up a meeting soon, and if he can do that within the next couple of days because he will be gone for a week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am willing to put together a meeting with my officials to meet with the community if necessary to address this issue, and we will try to do that as early as possible. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Question 209-14(5): Wha Ti Community Hall Replacement
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question this afternoon is for the Minister responsible for MACA in his capacity as our leader in the sports field, concerning the issue of the visitation of NWT officials to the Arctic Winter Games and the charter flight they were looking into taking. I would like to ask the Minister to clarify information that was received here in the House, and then reported in the media, as to the cost of the charter to the Arctic Winter Games. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 610
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Member for the question. Mr. Speaker, for clarification, the figure of $44,000 quoted in the paper is not accurate. The most recent figure we have for the trip, if it were to return from Nuuk back to Yellowknife direct, would be $34,000. Also, there is no Challenger 2 jet. This is a Citation 2.
Mr. Speaker, if I may take a minute to clarify at how we arrived at the decision. In the first place, it was only my party of three people that I was involved in to go to Iqaluit and Nuuk. What we found out was that in order to go from Iqaluit to Nuuk and return, that was going to cost us two charters at roughly $7,000 a charter, plus the airfare from here to Iqaluit, which is $3,000 a passenger. What we found out by January 22nd was that there were not even anymore seats available on the airlines, so if we were to make the decision, we would have to make it pretty fast. We then phoned around to see if we could get better charter figures. We found that to go from here to Iqaluit return with a jet was $17,000, capable of holding eight passengers. That works out to $24,000 on airfares, plus it would bring us into Iqaluit on the day of the opening, rather than on the 15th, when we would have to sit in Iqaluit for three days waiting for the events to start. Furthermore, the House was still in session on that day.
There were all kinds of problems like this that we were trying to address. In the end, the ultimate decision was that if we take on eight passengers, it was cheaper than it is to go airfare plus room and board and time away from the office. It was far cheaper to use the jet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the need to be well represented there is not in question, and I appreciate the information about all the logistics. I wonder if the Minister could advise the House who will be travelling with him to represent the NWT? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my earlier statement, initially there was only my party that I was dealing with. However, since the Arctic Winter Games included cultural activities, I had my office contact the Minister of Education to see if he had any plans to go as well.
He had plans to take himself, myself and two -- myself would have been me, my spouse and the E.A. That left two open seats. A couple of days later, I received a request from the Commissioner's office as to whether or not I could find a seat on that jet for the Commissioner, as there were no available seats on commercial flights.
The Commissioner was and is still taking part on this flight, as well as myself, my spouse and my E.A. We had one other seat available at that time. After discussion amongst the Ministers, it was suggested to offer it to an MLA. I had no fair way to do this, Mr. Speaker, except to offer it to the first MLA I met in the hallway. That happened to be Mr. Bell. He accepted, but now I understand he is withdrawing that and now it is Mr. Nitah who is going. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to confirm, is there a full plane that is going over there, or are there still a couple of vacancies? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the present time today, I am aware of one vacancy on the jet. However, the problem to fill the vacancy is there are no hotels on the other end. That caused the other half of the problem. There is no accommodation on the other end. Even if we put another passenger on, we have no rooms for them. To finalize this thing, Mr. Speaker, there is the Commissioner and her E.A., myself, my spouse, Mr. Ootes and his E.A., and there is Mr. Nitah. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the logistics are challenging at the best of times. I congratulate the Minister for putting this together. I would like to ask when events come up that require or warrant the Northwest Territories' representation, would the Minister consider expanding that representation perhaps to people outside of the Legislative Assembly? I am thinking of other elected municipal or perhaps aboriginal or First Nations leaders. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Steen.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 611
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that would certainly be the next option we would choose. I should clarify something here, Mr. Speaker. The department had the option of using the jet chartered by Sports North. In order for us to do that, we would be taking seats from the general public, who really have just as much right to those seats as we do. Rather than do that, we decided that we were going to obtain our own seats, either through the commercial airlines or through a charter, and leave the Sports North charters available for Members, the general public, the athletes, the participants. That is what we decided to do. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Question 210-14(5): Ministerial Arctic Winter Games Travel
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for Health and Social Services. It is dealing with the medical travel issue. Mr. Speaker, in the Northwest Territories, when you travel out by vehicle or airline or whatever the mode of travel, apparently you have to have insurance if you are not working for the Government of the Northwest Territories, the federal government, or industry that covers your medical insurance. The government will not pay your way back if you get into an accident. They will pay for the medical bills and so on. Can the Minister tell me if that is correct? If so, when was this policy initiated regarding the medical travel? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is basically correct. It has been in place for some time. It is similar to arrangements that other jurisdictions have in place. Thank you.
Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess that policy leaves those people who are not working for industry or governments out in the cold. Can the Minister tell me how the department is communicating to the general public out there that they should purchase insurance when travelling outside the territory? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize. I did not have my earpiece in and I missed part of the Member's question. Could I ask him to repeat it please? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the government encourages people to buy short-term insurance when travelling. How is Mr. Miltenberger's department communicating that encouragement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, I do not have the detail, the specifics at hand. I know that it is communicated by the health people, the people who do our medical travel. This policy has been circulated widely to health authorities and to the various offices in the Northwest Territories. Of course, this whole policy is under review, like other parts of the Supplementary Health Benefits Program. If the Member has identified gaps or has some suggestions on how we could improve this, we would be very interested. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when people fall extremely ill in the Northwest Territories, where does the department send the patients for extensive medical care? I believe it is Edmonton. Can the Minister confirm if it is in fact Edmonton? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if a territorial resident falls ill, and it is determined that the facilities and services in the Northwest Territories are not adequate, then we have an arrangement with the Capital Health Authority in Edmonton. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our unemployment rate is pretty high in the Northwest Territories and people do travel quite a bit, both by road and by airlines. Unfortunately, we do get hurt sometimes. I think it should be incumbent on this government to cover the cost of Northerners, people who are paying taxes in the Northwest Territories. Knowing that we are travelling to Edmonton and we use the facilities quite often, I would like to see if the Minister would expand the policy to include Alberta, and possibly B.C. and the Yukon, where our people travel quite often, so that it is covered.
Supplementary To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 612
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course we are interested in trying to see what is the best possible service we can provide within the resources available. We do not want to have greater costs incurred than are absolutely necessary by anybody. So yes, as part of the review, those kinds of suggestions will be looked at. It has been raised in this House. It has been noted as we speak, as I have indicated in prior responses, by staff. Yes, we will look at that. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Question 211-14(5): Medical Travel Insurance
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question follows up on my earlier line of questioning to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, and is again in the area of pipelines.
Understanding the information provided, my question will now be in the area of where we would place priority or importance. Knowing that the Mackenzie Delta gas is on Canadian soil and would benefit residents of the Northwest Territories, and the aboriginal, or the over-the-top issue, the Alaskan gas would see most of the dollars accruing to the Alaskans and to the United States. I would like to know from the Minister where our first priority would be in getting gas to markets. Thank you.
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government's position all along has been to support a stand-alone Mackenzie Valley pipeline, taking Delta gas to markets into the existing pipeline systems in Alberta. That has always been our position. With the Delta Producers and the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Corporation's proposal of moving ahead and developing a proposal, it is right in line with what we have been supporting all along.
The over-the-top, taking Alaska gas, is somewhat out of our hands. I understand there is a process in the United States in trying to come to grips on how they are going to deal with that issue. The feasibility of taking Alaska gas, which we were told is very expensive, and that some of the key components, three of them in the Alaskan north, in Prudhoe Bay, one of them is BP, British Petroleum, as well as Exxon Mobil. They have pulled out of any immediate move to build a new pipeline at this point in time. The third member there is Phillips. This is the information we received.
From the three big producers in northern Alaska, two of them had more or less stepped back from any initiative at this point. Then there is the whole debate of energy that is going on in the U.S. For us, being Canadians, we are trying to keep an eye on it. The indication there is that they still have a long way to go, but what we have now formulated, which is more realistic for us, is this Delta Producers Gas initiating a pipeline down the valley. Thank you.
Return To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Supplementary To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe many of my constituents will be very happy to hear that, as we are counting on this resurgence of activity to continue. I would like to know from the Minister, how are we conveying our support for this to the federal government? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, we are not playing any immediate role in this initiative. What we are saying is the industry will have to determine for themselves which pipeline is going to proceed, based on the commercial viability of it. We are more or less playing a supportive role. It is really up to the producer groups and the Aboriginal Pipeline Group to move this initiative forward.
Of course, we are very supportive of helping the aboriginal people in the Mackenzie Valley, who have equity in the pipeline one way or the other. At this point in time, we are and have been up-front. Our Premier and Finance Minister and myself have attended different oil and gas conferences in the past. We have met with our federal counterparts. We are trying to move this support by playing those kinds of roles. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Question 212-14(5): Priorities For Pipeline Development
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. No further supplementaries? Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, and relate to diamonds allocated for manufacture in the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Speaker, earlier this week, the Premier advised the House that last year, approximately $85 million, or 10 percent of the production of Ekati, was made available to northern manufacturers to polish. I was struck by the use of the term available. Could the Minister advise us whether or not the full allotment was actually taken up by the manufacturers of the Northwest Territories?
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Speaker, no, the full allotment was not taken up last year. Thank you.
Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 613
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister give us an approximate percentage of the amount that was taken up by northern manufacturers?
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have that number handy. I will get it for the Member as soon as I can. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister advise the House whether or not the government is pursuing a similar commitment from Diavik and De Beers as was made by BHP Billiton to provide diamonds to northern manufacturers for polishing? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a similar approach that we have with BHP has been worked on with regard to Diavik Diamond Mines as well as De Beers. There are varying degrees of success, Mr. Speaker.
With specific regard to Diavik Diamond Mines, this government had already initiated, in the summer of 1999, they entered into an MOU with Diavik Diamond Mines over support to the diamond value-added industry. The discussion was on a supply of rough diamonds that would run parallel with Diavik Diamond Mines developing their own plans for marketing the rough diamonds. In February of last year, this government requested information from Diavik towards the establishment of this industry.
In 2001, Rio Tinto established RT Diamonds in Antwerp. RT Diamonds is responsible for marketing Rio Tinto diamonds produced at Diavik. RT Diamonds has indicated a willingness to work with the government on fulfilling the value-added commitments and also addressing the GNWT issues.
We are working with Diavik according to our MOU. There is commitment there on their part to supply approximately the same amount of diamonds that are available from BHP.
As well, we have been working with Aber, who is also involved in the Diavik project, to provide rough diamonds. There is positive discussion at this point in time. As you know, in April of next year, Diavik will be in full production, so we have some work to do at this point in time.
In regard to the De Beers operation at Snap Lake, they are into the regulatory process at this point in time. Our Premier has met with the people in De Beers in London when he went on this European trip and was not able to get the type of commitments with regard to the supply of rough diamonds as we did from BHP, as well as the commitments we are working on with Diavik.
We have some way to go with De Beers. I think there are still some options available to us as we deal with this. If they are not willing to come to the table, similar to the other diamond mines here in the North, they are still in their regulatory process. I understand that through the regulatory process, there are socio-economic agreements that they have to reach, so we have some options there.
We would like to leave it at that. We hope they come to the table with similar types of arrangements as we have with these other two diamond mines. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that the Premier and the Minister are going to pursue aggressively a deal for getting diamonds left in the Northwest Territories. I know all Members in this House want to see that happen.
Mr. Speaker, we need to also work on making sure that diamond manufacturers can be profitable, particularly if we want to see more of them in the Northwest Territories. Has the Minister talked to the three manufacturers currently in operation to get their opinion on this government's efforts to remove the 10 percent excise tax?
Supplementary To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we have had meetings with the three manufacturing groups here that are operating in the North. The exclusion of this excise tax towards the manufacturing of the diamonds that come from our country, we are working on them right here, so this approach has been dealt with and we are going to be pursuing it with the federal government. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. The time for oral questions has ended. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 6, oral questions.
Further Return To Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Question 213-14(5): Diamonds Allocated To Northern Manufacturers
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 614
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 6, oral questions. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. My question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is well aware that talks are now ongoing to bring the employees of the H.H. Williams Memorial Hospital into the mainstream of territorial public service. Hospital staff may have many concerns about this process.
Would the Minister be in agreement with allowing these workers, whose work situations have been turned into chaos by this government, the comfort of at least being able to choose to have their pensions administered separately under their existing plan, or will they be forced to transfer their superannuation plan, regardless of their interests and wishes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health and Social Services has just returned to the Chamber is more able to answer this question than I am. Thank you.
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Using his prerogative, the honourable Deputy Premier has assigned this question to the honourable Minister for Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a working group that has been formed to deal with this issue, made up of officials from the department, the health authority and the union. They are currently looking at all of these particular questions and coming to a resolution they can bring forward for us to look at. Thank you.
Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think the Minister answered my question. Will the Minister provide assurances in this House today that the workers at H.H. Williams Memorial Hospital will not be expected to accept any reductions in their pension entitlements that they have paid into over the course of their employment at the hospital? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there will be no loss to pension benefits by this particular process. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that all three northern territorial governments have been in discussion with federal officials regarding the potential of devolving the pension plans of the public service into their individual control.
Can the Minister assure the workers at H.H. Williams Memorial Hospital that such development in this area will not have any adverse affect on the pensions they have earned while working at the hospital? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this broader process of transferring superannuation from the federal government to the territorial government is one that the Minister of Finance would have to speak to, as that is within his mandate. In terms of the health authority in Hay River and the transfer of the union from one bargaining unit to another, there will be no loss of benefits. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Another area of concern is that the staffing system is being incorporated as part of the territorial action plan. Previously, much of the staffing at the hospital was done independently of territorial staffing systems, which afforded all-important local control and stability.
Will the Minister explain to this House how the centralization of staffing positions is going to be of benefit to the current employees and how the centralization of staffing is not going to affect any promotional opportunities for the current employees? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 615
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what is going to happen is that the Hay River Health Authority will come under the umbrella of the Health and Social Services system. They will use the same hiring practices and human resource practices and systems that are in place for the rest of the system and all the other health authorities.
There will be no loss of promotional opportunities. In fact, they will be able to tie into the broader system. There will also be the benefit of the human resource expertise that is either in Yellowknife or in other authorities, should there be a requirement or some sort of shortfall in the Hay River authority for any particular reason. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Question 214-14(5): Status Of H.h. Williams Hospital Employees
Revert To Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.
Written Question 2-14(5): Travel By Ministers And Senior Staff
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 616
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question is for the Premier in his capacity as the Minister responsible for the Executive Council and is related to travel by Ministers and senior staff.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Written Question 2-14(5): Travel By Ministers And Senior Staff
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to the opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Handley.
Tabled Document 24-14(5): Inter-activity Transfers Exceeding $250,000 With Departments, April 1, 2001 To January 31, 2002
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
Joe Handley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as required by Section 32.1, subsection 2 of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to table a list of all inter-activity transfers exceeding $250,000 with departments, for the period from April 1, 2001 to January 31, 2002. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Tabled Document 24-14(5): Inter-activity Transfers Exceeding $250,000 With Departments, April 1, 2001 To January 31, 2002
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.
Tabled Document 25-14(5): "falling Through The Cracks" -- A Single Mother's Personal Account Of Accessing GNWT Social Programs
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following document entitled Falling Through the Cracks: A Single Mother's Personal Account of Accessing GNWT Social Programs. It was prepared by Aimee Clark, who lives in Fort Smith. There is also attached here a cover letter from the Status of Women's Council of the Northwest Territories, from the executive director, Barb Saunders, outlining what the document is about. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Tabled Document 25-14(5): "falling Through The Cracks" -- A Single Mother's Personal Account Of Accessing GNWT Social Programs
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Tabled Document 26-14(5): Yellowknifer Newspaper Article Entitled "severance Deals Referred To Auditor", March 13, 2002
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
Jane Groenewegen Hay River South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table an article from the March 13, 2002 edition of the Yellowknifer entitled Severance Deals Referred to Auditor, containing a quote from Ms. Sorensen regarding her contract. Thank you.
Tabled Document 26-14(5): Yellowknifer Newspaper Article Entitled "severance Deals Referred To Auditor", March 13, 2002
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.
Motion 9-14(5): Extended Adjournment Of The House To June 11, 2002
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 616
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, March 15, 2002, I will move the following motion.
I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that notwithstanding Rule 4, that when this House adjourns on Friday, March 15, 2002, it shall be adjourned until Tuesday, June 11, 2002;
And further, that anytime prior to June 11, 2002, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House shall meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Motion 9-14(5): Extended Adjournment Of The House To June 11, 2002
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 616
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters; Bill 2, Bill 4, Committee Report 1-14(5), Committee Report 2-14(5), and Committee Report 3-14(5), with Mr. Delorey in the Chair.
By the authority given to the Speaker by Motion 2-14(5) the House is resolved into committee of the whole to sit beyond the time of adjournment until the committee is prepared to report.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 616
The Chair Paul Delorey
I would like to call the committee of the whole to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 616
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee continue consideration of Bill 2 and Committee Report 1-14(5), Committee Report 2-14(5) and Committee Report 3-14(5) concurrently, to resume consideration of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's budget, followed by Justice. We will see what happens after that.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The Chair will call a short break and come back to review Bill 2.
-- Break
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
The Chair Paul Delorey
I will call the committee of the whole back to order. We are reviewing the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Would the Minister like to bring in any witnesses?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in please. Mr. Minister, could you please introduce your witnesses for the record?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me today are Dr. Loretta Foley, the deputy minister of the department; Lesley Allen, the assistant deputy minister for advanced education and careers; and Paul Devitt, the director of management services. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 617
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the Minister's opening remarks, I had some interest in his closing comments that referred to the capital program with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. My specific interest was in the area of student residences for the Aurora College campuses in the Northwest Territories.
I have been working with my community, as well as with the Minister, to try and have the residence situation dealt with in Inuvik, because within this budget, it is planned to proceed with the construction of the Aurora Campus facility in Inuvik. That being the main facility, however, not to proceed with the residence. Instead, they are putting some minor capital towards refurbishing what we call in Inuvik the Blueberry Patch, to allow for students to use those facilities.
My concern with that practice, Mr. Chairman, is the fact that we would be putting money into those facilities that would soon not be used by the college anymore because there would have to be a need to address the college situation with an actual residence. I know the community has contacted the department to look at alternative ways of addressing that.
I find it interesting that in here, there are actually dollars identified for the Aurora College residence units at Northern United Place here in Yellowknife. I hope that as we proceed through this fiscal year, the Minister and his department would be working with the groups in Inuvik to try to address the residence situation in Inuvik, hopefully in a timely fashion.
My concern, Mr. Chairman, is the Minister's response to my questions in the House about the situation they are looking at right now, which might be able to do for the next 10 years. I do not think you would find anyone in our community that would agree with that, especially with the older units that we call, again, the Blueberry Patch.
With that, Mr. Chairman, hopefully we can proceed and work cooperatively from the community and the department to address the needs of the students who would be addressing the Aurora College facility in Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The process that we used was, when I took over as Minister of the department, there was an effort to look at a P3 process and that was not proceeded with. As a result, the capital planning committee from Inuvik was in agreement that there was a possibility to transfer funding from a project for one of the schools and proceed first with the college building. That was approximately $9 million that was in that particular budget.
I agreed that we would juxtapose the funding for that, which left the whole issue of residences, Mr. Chairman. At the time, the residence issue was certainly not brought to my attention, but we knew that we needed to solve the problems of the residence. As a result, we worked on the row housing to bring that back on stream.
We already had, and have now, 30 units. We are bringing 18 more on stream, of which eight will be provided for the public and 10 will be used for college purposes. We see that as a short-term solution, not necessarily one or two years, but certainly short-term being about eight or 10 years, somewhere in there.
I did make a commitment to the Member that we would discuss possibilities and be open-minded about it when I go to Inuvik to discuss matters with the leaders in the Beaufort-Delta. My officials have been instructed to make contact. As a matter of fact, I have already been contacted by way of letter by two of the Inuvik Beaufort-Delta aboriginal organizations to look at this issue. I am open to it.
However, the challenge for us, Mr. Chairman, and why we wanted to proceed with the row housing, is we do need a bit of time here to analyze, to be able to look at the possibilities. We are talking in terms of $4 million plus here in order to put a residence in place.
However, as I said, I am open to it. If we can look at it in terms of cooperation, looking at possibilities and then if I can get a possible proposal that is acceptable, then we can proceed from there. It has to go through the capital planning process, as we all know.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, this process, and I forwarded summaries of a report done in 1996, I believe, or maybe 1997, by the Department of Public Works for Education, Culture and Employment. It clearly identified that any work in this area would be costing this government between $13 million and $16 million, other than renovations of Grollier Hall, which no longer exists because that building has now been torn down.
In a sense, it has been earmarked. It has gone through a process, but because of the P3 and yes/no sort of thing with that process, we seem to be penalized in the community of Inuvik and the region, because now we are going to work on some older systems to try and deal with the student residence situation.
Initially, the outlay of cash may seem like a small amount, but we are going to pay for it in the end through leases, I believe, because this private company that is going to do the repairs is not just going to give us back units. I think in that end, we are going to have some concerns.
Hopefully, the department, community and aboriginal groups can come together and come up with a satisfactory plan that would see a replacement of the student residence portion in a timely manner.
I want to ensure that the Minister -- short-term to me, I would identify the life of a politician as short-term. Eight to 10 years, we are done here, elections go around and new Members would have to try to pick up the pieces of what was promised or not promised or committed to and not committed to. I am hoping that we can address this in a manner that would be appropriate.
I am sure, as I have shown Members of this Assembly the report, this is something that has been in the works and it is not a brand new capital project. It is a matter of building a residence that would replace the existing one. Right now, we are just building the main facility, we would not be replacing the existing. We are replacing with less than what is there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, we are certainly interested in looking at and discussing possibilities, Mr. Chairman, as I committed before. I will remain open-minded about it. There are some constrictions for me in terms of how do you find $4 million or $5 million. I will certainly accept any ideas and possibilities in this.
I think we got into this on a best-of-intentions process, because the college in a sense was being knocked back about six years in building, but there seemed to be a general interest on everyone's part to proceed. The hamstringing that I ran into after the fact, which I was not even aware of, was the desire to have a residence with the college.
At the time, as I said, we entered into this with the best of intentions. We had $9 million to build the building. We wanted to build the building and we are proceeding with that. After that came the question of the residence. It was there, no question, in the original days but I was not aware of that. We did this with the best of intentions and we will continue to work on that basis to see what can be achieved on this.
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Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make a couple comments in this area. The first is one I have raised many times to the Minister. It is an issue that affects all areas of the Northwest Territories, especially more so now than ever before because we are starting to see a lot of resource development and activity.
The issue of training has come up many times and I have great concern with this issue, especially in the area of oil and gas training. I had the opportunity to talk to the Minister many times. I realize there are some huge obstacles to overcome. However, I am not totally satisfied that we are taking a comprehensive approach with oil and gas training. There is very little money for oil and gas training. I think there is only $600,000 for the whole of the Northwest Territories.
I know from the lists in my communities, especially in Fort Providence, they are growing. The lists of people wanting to take the training are getting longer and longer and we are not seeing any solutions. In fact, some of the training that took place this year was too late to take advantage of the winter exploration in the oil and gas.
I would like to know if the Minister is looking at putting in some type of structured process that we can look at and present to our communities. Right now, when we have our constituency meetings or when we talk to our constituents, we really cannot present them with any document that addresses how we are going to deal with oil and gas training.
I know the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has put together a booklet or a document that outlines all of the different jobs in the field of oil and gas, but that does not do us any good because we need a process that will spell out how we can go from A to B.
If you ask any region or any community that is being affected by oil and gas right now, they are going to tell you we do not have enough training programs out there. We in fact have no training programs developed here by our own colleges. That is really unfair to our communities. It is resulting in a lot of people having to be flown in from outside of the North.
I do not accept the argument that we cannot put together a long-term plan to deal with oil and gas training because right now, we do not have any money. We have seen it done in every other department.
A good example is the Highway Strategy. When that was developed, when the consultation process took place in the communities, there was no money. When it was tabled in this House, there was no money to complete that plan. Yet in the last while, we are fully aware that we are going to be doing a good portion of that strategy.
I think that is the same thing that has to be done with oil and gas training but I do not see it happening. Can the Minister explain what his plans are for oil and gas training across the North?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Actually, it is a good subject to have an opportunity to discuss. There is a lot of activity out there, a lot of possibilities. Early on in the game, we developed a Human Resource Development Plan, Mr. Chairman, that we used as part of the Non-Renewable Resource Strategy. We attempted to get funding from the federal government. Much of this was related to oil and gas training.
Subsequent to that, we decided we would make our own investments. We invested $500,000 for access training and this year, halfway through the year, we passed a supp and we added $600,000 for advanced training. So that is $1.1 million we are putting in from our particular money, Mr. Chairman, for training itself.
The Member is correct. We need to continue to work on planning and planning for specific areas. What we did do was ask the various players in all of this to come together to form a committee so that we can continue to pursue funding from the federal government. Funding is what is going to drive this whole thing. We have that committee together; HRDC, DIAND, RWED, and ourselves, but it fell apart in September of last year. We are attempting to get it back together again. It fell apart because the federal government decided that it would put its money into the security matters. Industry is together on that as well with us, as are aboriginal groups.
Additionally, on the pipeline side, my ADM was at a meeting in Fort Simpson a while ago. They also are forming a committee for training. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have said it many times before that it is very disappointing that there is really no comprehensive plan for us to deal with training in our communities. This government has known for many years that oil and gas was coming down the tubes.
I guess it is really not fair to this Minister that he has had to scramble in the last couple of years. However, this government, all our bureaucrats were fully aware that oil and gas was at the verge of entering into a lot of oil and gas activity. We are not ready. It is becoming more and more blatantly obvious.
I feel we are really short-changing the people of the North. We are not even able to address a small percentage of the training needs in the North. We are really dependent on the private sector. This government really cannot do a whole lot.
We start spending the $600,000 that we have into the different regions. One hundred thousand dollars in the whole Deh Cho region of 10 communities does not go very far. I do not even know what other programs are really being delivered in my riding. I do not see them. I would like to ask the Minister, how much money from the Northern Employment Support Program was spent in the Deh Cho, in my riding?
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct. I think it requires more work. It requires more investment. There is no question about it. We have been a bit restricted because of our own limited availability of funding. I have just been advised that we are working on regional plans, Mr. Chairman. A meeting was held this week with the ARTA groups on this matter. We are promoting it on a regional basis. We are looking to establish more training committees and subcommittees. It is functioning very well up in the Beaufort-Delta but we have known all along that we have to do that in the other areas.
With regard to the Member's question of investment by region, the South Slave Deh Cho region, we have a number of areas that we are looking at for investment. For example, the Aboriginal Government Private Sector Partnership Fund, which is a MNE program, there is $193,000 for a total of about 58 participants. I do not have the communities together, but that is for the South Slave Deh Cho area, Mr. Chairman. Advanced oil and gas training, there were 31 participants for a total of $198,000. That is in the specific oil and gas area. Thank you.
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Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to shift gears a little bit and ask a question to the Minister regarding an initiative that he is working on along with another department, and that is the Harmonization Strategy that has yet to be tabled in this House. I want to point out to the Minister and ask him to respond on a couple of questions. I am running out of time so I will ask both of them at this point.
I want to know why there is no consultation process for this strategy. The communities are not even privy to what is in the document. They have not been given formal notice whether their rents are going to go up, whether they are going to go down. Why does this Minister not, along with the Minister of Housing, allow this document to come to the floor of this House for a debate?
This initiative was introduced by the 13th Assembly. It is not an issue that has been rubberstamped, I believe, by the Social Programs Committee. I do not see any opportunity for us to discuss this issue in the public because it has not been formally presented to the House. It has not been tabled in this House. There is no consultation in the communities. It is kind of like "We are going to push it through whether you like it or not, sink or swim."
I would like to ask the Minister to respond on the issue of consultation and also the comment about the debate.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The document that was prepared and the documentation that we had in hand on harmonization, we briefed the Standing Committee on the Social Envelope on this a number of times, Mr. Chairman. So we did go through the process of involving MLAs in the process.
What did happen in the end was that notification was sent out to those individuals who would be affected by this, but there was a shortcoming in the information that was passed on. What has been decided, Mr. Chairman, was to look, because of the concern by Members, at those people out there who will be negatively impacted by this harmonization process.
Members expressed concern about that, so we decided we would delay the implementation to give us time to ensure the people who are negatively impacted on this are properly notified of the amount of change that is going to take place for their particular rents. Additionally, to see if there were mechanisms by which we could deal with the specific issue of how to implement the system for those who are going to be negatively impacted.
We feel there are definite benefits of this to a lot of people, Mr. Chairman, because people who are low-income earners and so forth, many of them will benefit. There are people who will be negatively impacted. Those are people who have the resources to be able to pay. We needed the time and that is why the delay was instituted. We needed the time to be able to deal with that and to give proper notification to individuals, and then to take the time to take this back to Cabinet to redevelop the process. Thank you.
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Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have several areas that I would like to ask the Minister some questions about. The first one is something that I have raised in the House, I think it has been a couple of weeks at least now since I asked the Minister questions about graduation rates. I have yet to date to receive a response. I did go on-line and also called a school the day of asking the question and get the answers for myself some short hours later, but I still have not heard back from the Minister on it.
Really my concern was about the fact that we seem to do a lot of touting of our graduation rates. We talk a lot about the fact that graduation rates have improved since grade extensions, we are going in the right direction, and yes, this is a slow process, making progress, but we are making progress and we are going the right way.
My concern is that graduation rates may be going up, but I ask myself, what does graduation really mean? I think a lot of people these days are concerned about this. We like to compare ourselves to other jurisdictions but I am not certain that we are comparing apples to apples. I found out that our graduation requirements are not quite the same as Alberta's, whom we often compare ourselves to.
I did ask the Minister questions about whether we really did have to pass diploma examinations in order to graduate. From all that I can tell and from all the research I have done, Mr. Chairman, although the Minister has not provided me an answer yet, the answer is no, we do not. It is about blended marks between your term mark and your graduation mark.
It seems to me, theoretically, I could have a term mark from my school of 90 percent. As long as I score 10 percent on the Alberta-based diploma, I am going to get that 50 percent and I am going to move on and we are going to say I graduated and everybody is happy and we can chalk up another graduation stat.
Even further to that, Mr. Chairman, I believe that if you get a 48 percent blended mark, we bump you over the bar. I have concerns about this. I am wondering if the Minister could address them and specifically speak to whether or not we do indeed require our students to actually pass those diploma examinations. Thank you.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the way it works is that the Alberta exams that we use formulate 50 percent of the passing mark. School year work represents the other 50 percent, Mr. Chairman. That is made up of tests and exams throughout the year. However, that is no different than what is used in Alberta, Mr. Chairman. The same process is used there. In order to pass, it is a blend of marks, both exams and school-year work. Thank you.
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Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you. So if I can interpret what the Minister is saying, in fact we are comparing apples to apples, because when we compare our graduation rates to Alberta's graduation rates, they are exactly the same thing. Is that correct?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
With the exception, Mr. Chairman, of social studies, it is correct. That is not a compulsory program. There are two years of compulsory, but it is not necessary to take Social Studies 30, Mr. Chairman, which you do have to take in Alberta. So that is the difference between our jurisdiction and Alberta's jurisdiction.
I understand the reasons for that may be that universities may not require this particular program, so the option was left for students to be able to take it or not take it, and take something as an alternate. The requirement, of course, is 100 credits in order to receive a diploma.
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Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
That is true. Universities may not require Social Studies 30, but they may not require a lot of things. For instance, Math 30 is not required at all to graduate, but if you intend to go to business school, I would suggest you better have Math 30.
If our system is entirely based on the Alberta system, and it seems to be, almost -- we do have some variation in curriculum at some of the lower grades, but when we are talking graduations, it seems almost entirely based on the Alberta system, yet we have this one discrepancy. It does not make sense to me that we would not require our students to take Social Studies 30.
The Minister has laid out the department's explanation for this and I do not imagine I am going to change it and change their minds here in this discussion today, but I still do have concerns about our graduation rates and whether or not we are accurately measuring the ability of our young people to move out into the world and get gainful employment, or move on to post-secondary school, because universities are really not looking at whether or not you have a diploma. They are looking at your transcript. They want to see that you have passed and done well in some of these grade 12 level subjects, specifically the 30 level subjects, Mr. Chairman.
I think we need to do as much as we can to encourage our students to take the highest level of courses that they can possibly complete and not encourage students to sort of float by and attain a graduation paper and rely on that as a measure of success.
I have one other area that I would like to ask the Minister about and it is about the testing programs that I guess you can say have been piloted by a couple of districts, at least Hay River and Yellowknife Education District No. 1, with regard to Alberta testing at the grade 3, 6, and 9 levels. Our results have not been great. I think the department and the districts have admitted that and said that we want to now work to identify why they have not been as good as we had hoped, and then seek to address those problems and concerns, because clearly we want students who are competitive. We want to make sure our students are getting the highest level of education possible.
We tend to focus on the education system. We tend to ask ourselves whether or not teachers have enough professional development and whether or not we have enough days in the school year. Maybe our kids need more days in the school year. We focus on a lot of these things, but I do not think we focus enough on the outside of school factors that influence how students do in school.
I think family is critical. I think an understanding that at certain grade levels, homework is very important. I think that is something we may not have focused enough on. I do not think we have focused enough on bringing the family unit into discussions about their child's performance.
At this point, the marks are bearing out that at grade 3, we are not quite there with Alberta, but as we go on, grades 6 and 9, we test our students and the gap widens. This is a concern because it suggests to people that the more time you spend in our system, the worse off you are. I do not think that is an accurate assessment. I think there are some other issues here that come into play.
For instance, at grade 3, children are basically measured on their ability and not on their work ethic, not on the amount of homework that they do because it is not really required. However, by the time you get to grade 9, Mr. Chairman, if you are not in the habit of doing homework and you do not have a supportive family environment, I would suggest that you are dead in the water and are going to have a very hard time and really struggle to get good marks going through to grade 12.
Another problem in talking to several teachers that I had not thought about but was raised with me was attendance. Apparently, and I am sure we measure this because I know all schools do, our attendance, in some schools more than others, but overall I think is atrocious. There are real concerns about the amount of school that students miss. In fact, when we had our grades 3,6, and 9 testing last year at some schools, I understand there were a lot of students who were not even present to take the test. I am not even sure we got an accurate measure. This is something that I was not aware of but oftentimes, we have students who are coming in as much as an hour, an hour-and-a-half late consistently for school.
I know in talking to some teachers that in order to try to deal with this problem, they have decided they just will not have language arts first period in the morning, because too many students are late for school. They bump it back later in the day to make sure students are there when something as important as language arts is being taught.
I guess necessity is the mother of invention and I am glad that we have teachers who are willing to do these kinds of things, but I think it speaks to a larger problem. I think we really need to sit down and work with our communities, not just the children, but our communities, our parents, and come up with a game plan for helping children improve their performance in school. I think this will improve their satisfaction.
I imagine it is really frustrating the further you get behind, the less motivation there will be to attend class. If every day is a frustration and every day you realize that you are a few months or years behind your peers, if it was me, I would probably stop going to school. I think that is what happens to a lot of these children.
We need to address some of these other issues. We tend to focus on our education system and ask what is wrong with our schools, what is wrong with our curriculum, what is wrong with our teachers, but I think we need to look a little deeper than that, Mr. Chairman.
I hope this Minister will take up this cause, because although it possibly falls outside the specific mandate of Education, Culture and Employment, it is something that he needs to collaborate on with his colleagues in Cabinet and seek to come up with a strategy to take on this very serious problem. If we do not do it, we are going to get further and further behind. We know the problems that arise out of having children who just are really not successful in school, because they have so few options later in life. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member has covered a broad area here, which I will try and address. I think in general, what the Member is saying is that he would like us to take a look at some of the inherent problems that are there, which I readily would acknowledge that we do have some problems there.
I do have to be somewhat defensive here, though, on some areas, because while there are pockets of problems, there is also a tremendous amount of success out there. I do not think we should just generalize too much and say the whole system is not working. I think there are successes out there, very good successes.
I understand what the Member is saying in general terms with this. We should continue to improve, continue to work on the areas that are very evidently problematic.
Let me perhaps start, and I will try to be very quick with this, just so that we do not get bogged down with too many explanations. What we decided was that we need to tackle this whole problem on an early basis, hence we developed the Early Childhood Development Program, Mr. Chairman. A plan that starts to look at children ages one to five. As we know, we have a plan in place for that and extensive money that we are putting in it.
The next is the Literacy Strategy, which also contributes to this whole area of improving the whole ability of perhaps older people, but older people who will develop an ability to be able to contribute to their children, because parental support is a problem for us. We need to work on that. We need to ensure that it is there.
The Member made reference to homework. In the Beaufort-Delta, there is a homework policy. The DEC, and we are partners, we must remember that, this is a community driven system that we have, a regionally driven system that we look to partners with to help us out. In the Beaufort-Delta, the homework policy was introduced. I think it is a good move. We are following that to see what kind of success is happening, if it has success.
Family support, as I mentioned, is an important element. It is a part of an issue that was raised during the student needs assessment. We need to continue to work on that and we are working on that to follow through. Mr. Nitah asked me about that earlier in the session.
We have a program called Effective Behaviour Support, which was introduced about a year ago. We are moving forward with that because those are the kinds of programs that need to address the whole area of attendance and so forth.
Mr. Chairman, I will cut off there because I know Members have a lot of questions. I will ask Dr. Foley to address the question Mr. Bell had earlier.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Dr. Foley.
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Dr. Foley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A few years ago, Northern Studies was introduced into our secondary school. Because this happened, we allowed our students to take Northern Studies plus Social Studies 10 and 20, so that would give them 15 credits in social studies. Any student, for example, who is going on to a general arts degree, post-secondary, would probably take Social Studies 30 as an option. It was felt in the department that Northern Studies was very, very important to have for our students to be cultured in our North.
It does not mean that a student cannot take Social Studies 30, and many, many do, but it is not a requirement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to go into an area that we do not often cover in the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and that is the culture side of things. As we go through the main estimates here and the budget, Mr. Chairman, I think we will see that a number of other areas within the department, program areas have enjoyed, and quite rightly and deservedly so, substantial increases in expenditure and resources. The culture side of things, from the definitions provided in the book, are static in terms of resources and funding and have been so for quite some time. I offer that as a comment, I guess, to steer into a question as something that the Minister might be able to advise on.
In the area of the volunteer organizations, the community-based organizations, which really do such a tremendous job of preserving, enhancing and celebrating their cultures and heritage at a community level. I think they do so with a lot of sweat equity, with a lot of excellent cooperation with the corporations and businesses in the given community and, of course, with some of the help they get from the GNWT. We are getting really, really good value, I believe, Mr. Chairman, for the money that we are putting into culture.
I wanted to ask, in broad terms, Mr. Chairman, what kind of strategies, directions or trends does the department see in the area of cultural enhancement and its expenditures and investments in this area? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 622
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 622
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The programs we have in place today have been refined over the last couple of years. We have our heritage centre. We provide some support to some -- the museum in Fort Smith, for example, and an organization in Norman Wells. Plus, we provide some radio support to operate community radio stations. We have the NWT Arts Council, which hands out small amounts of money to arts people.
What I see as a challenge here, Mr. Chairman, is that we need to work on a program to identify how we can move forward with culture, arts and heritage. We have been working with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, as well as Heritage Canada, to develop an arts policy so that we can say how to move forward now, how can we access further funding in this whole area.
I think it is an area that I am starting to be able to spend some time on and concentrate on. It is extremely important to us as a territory. The arts area is one of the critical areas that I feel I can start on, and I think we already have a steering committee in place on that, Mr. Chairman.
The three departments, the federal and the two territorial departments, are working together to develop that arts policy so that we can bring it back to Cabinet and then to pursue possible federal funding in this area to see how we can, from the territorial government, pursue this as well.
When I say the arts area, that is the visual arts, the performing arts, film and video, sound recording, publishing, new media and so forth. That leaves several other areas, Mr. Chairman. It also leaves the area of heritage. What are we doing about heritage areas? I think we need to spend time and effort to work on all these areas. First the arts, and simultaneously, if we had the time and ability, to work on heritage and culture.
On the culture side, of course, language is an important area. We have been working on that for the past couple of years putting more money into it. This budget contains the possibility of gaining additional money for that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 622
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 622
Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The aspect that the Minister touched on, which is an arts policy, I think is something we have seen on the books. I think we will be going into the second fiscal year now, to the best of my recollection. I am a supporter of it. I am pleased to see too that we are talking to Heritage Canada and, Mr. Chairman, that RWED is also involved in this. Just yesterday in our discussion of the supplementary appropriation, we approved an expenditure of just over $100,000 to provide funding to increase arts and crafts sales through the development of new marketing in the development plan to look at the linkages between the arts and the tourism sectors.
This is significant, Mr. Chairman, because we need to get out of the stage where we are simply talking about the manufacture of handicrafts and artwork or this kind of thing, to really get into the tourism sector as it is developing around the world, where you look at the arts as a very broad range of things. There are the performing arts. There are the culinary arts, food and drink and this kind of thing. Along with the cultural experiences and the wilderness experiences, these are all things that people are seeking now. I am really happy to see RWED going after this kind of development and to see the linkages with this department.
If there is an aspect of this that I would like to look at well, it is under the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Perhaps more specifically, under Aurora College, Mr. Chairman. It used to be called, I believe, the NWT Science Institute. I think it is now called the Aurora Science Institute. We do not hear much about this, or perhaps I should say that I do not hear much of this, Mr. Chairman. I am wondering if the Minister could tell us what comprises this institute, its governance and its function, and where is it going? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of comments before I get to the Aurora Research Institute. The Member made reference to a couple of other areas. I guess what we recognize is that we need to work with other departments and have an inter-relationship. RWED is the funder of projects that are business oriented to stimulate business. What we have to recognize in our territory is that when we talk about arts and culture, this is also an economic issue because they too are creating employment. Any arts program, any heritage program or any cultural program creates employment and stimulates business and so forth. It is a contributor to our economy and an important contributor. Besides being important from the overall viewpoint of art and culture, it is nice to have and it is important for our heritage.
On the Aurora Institute, Mr. Chairman, the funding for that is approximately $950,000. The institute also raises some money on its own part. They administer a number of areas. One is the Scientists Act. Anyone carrying out scientific research in the Northwest Territories has to obtain a licence and we provide that licence.
We have three areas, Mr. Chairman, where we have facilities. We have the Inuvik Research Centre and we have the South Slave Research Centre in Fort Smith. The Inuvik one is, of course, in Inuvik.
We undertake a number of projects. For instance, a company in Yellowknife is developing fibreglass poles. I understand our research institute in Yellowknife has helped with that. They are working in support of 3000 Energy Wall with a housing construction project. There is the Mackenzie Valley cumulative impact monitoring database. They collect information on the Mackenzie Valley issues. They participate in the Arctic Millennium Exhibition. The Western Arctic handbook is produced. There is a Natural Resource and Technology Program providing classroom, office and laboratory facilities, for instance, to researchers and scientists.
Interestingly enough, I will take one second because the public might be quite interested in this. We have a Cosmic Ray Monitoring Program that we participate in. It is in Inuvik and in Fort Smith. That is data collection by the cosmic ray monitor, which provides information on the strength of solar and galactic cosmic rays and disturbances for the solar and terrestrial environment. This is used for weather predictions. We play an important part in that, Mr. Chairman. As well, we have the neutron monitoring station in Fort Smith.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Delorey, general comments.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments to make on the Minister's opening remarks. I see on page 2 he mentions some of the goals that support Towards A Better Tomorrow. He mentions that healthy schools that foster student achievements and success. I think, Mr. Chairman, in order to achieve these goals, we need all parties playing together and getting along and all working towards the same goal.
I am sure the Minister is well aware, as I am and many others, that sometimes all is not well out there, which makes these goals very hard to achieve. I know that in Hay River, there has been an ongoing issue with the DEA in Hay River wanting and working towards getting their own board. It is a very frustrating process. There are stumbling blocks and walls put up constantly by the department and by the South Slave Divisional Education Council. It gets to be very frustrating. For me, my involvement in it has been that it is extremely frustrating and makes it very hard to achieve the goals the Minister has outlined here in his opening remarks.
Hay River is also actively involved right now in trying to start up a French first language school. There has been a lot of work done in this area. It is, as well, to preserve language and culture. For six years now, a group has been working very hard to promote that program in Hay River and build it up to the point where there is a lot of interest in it now. There is a lot of buy-in from the federal government. It is going to need some buy-in and also some cooperation and help from the territorial government and all the players involved.
However, when I say that it makes it hard sometimes to achieve the goals such as healthy schools, this issue that Hay River has been working on with trying to get their own board is still there. It is very much in the forefront. I think the Minister will probably hear within the next day or so that there are some recent problems that have come up with budgeting and how it has been done and how it addresses Hay River.
The issues do not go away. In fact, they just keep building up and building up. I would like to ask the Minister if his department is going to continue to work with Hay River and the South Slave Divisional Education Council to try to find some kind of solution that everyone can live with on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 623
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When this issue came to my attention and there was concern, there was a petition to establish a separate DEC for Hay River, a district education council. When this was turned down, Mr. Chairman, we did a committee report on this. We had a study done to look at the issues that were there. The study did indicate some problems. The study indicated communication difficulties between the DEA and the DEC in general terms. There were some recommendations made to improve administrative matters and so forth, which are always important for us to do.
I understand the question the DEA in Hay River wants. I have indicated back to the DEA that it is problematic to create a DEC. It does base itself around a cost factor, and the cost factor we have provided to the DEA and the DEC in order to set up a separate DEC for the community of Hay River. I have indicated to the DEC that if they wish to discuss this further, I am quite prepared but I need to know from the DEC, because it is an issue. The lines of communication are more appropriately from the DEC to the Minister. The DEAs are part and parcel of the DEC. However, I have met with the DEA a number of times. I will continue to listen to what they have to say. However, the bottom line in a lot of this, Mr. Chairman, is that it is a costly matter for us to create a separate DEC. Am I prepared to talk about that? Of course I am, but there has to be a recognition that cost is a factor here.
The DEA states that they can cut a lot of costs but, Mr. Chairman, I have to go by what my officials advise on how to operate a DEC. I have to adhere to that. It is healthy schools, after all, that is at stake here. My understanding is the DEA in Hay River runs a very good organization and they should be complimented for that. I think they have the community respect for the schools they do run. I think they do a good job, from the best of my understanding, a very good job.
This is an administrative matter. It is not a matter of healthy schools. It is an administrative matter that is a problem here, Mr. Chairman, and that is what we need to work on. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Delorey.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I realize that there are many issues surrounding this. I am simply looking for an indication from the Minister that he is quite willing to continue to work on this and to help try to find a solution. I know he continues to say it is a money issue and we come up against that.
I have been here long enough to know that there has been money found for a lot of projects since I have sat on this side of the House, money that was not there. They kept saying there was no money and all of a sudden, the money has appeared, and far more money than what we are talking about here, Mr. Chairman. Somehow it has come into play. They have found it. I think with this situation, if there is a will, there is a way and we can make it happen.
On another issue, I would like to mention briefly the harmonization program that has been worked on. I hope it is not scrapped too early, because from my perspective and the research that I have done on it, it is very helpful to a lot of people, in my riding anyway. It is helpful to a lot more people than it would do harm.
I am glad to see that maybe the department is willing to slow it down a little bit to make sure that all the bases are covered. If someone is adversely affected, certain parts of the population, then I think that should be addressed but I would encourage the department to not scrap that too quickly.
Another issue I would like to touch on is the support for day care centres, as mentioned in the opening comments here. It is an issue that has been around for a while that I have had to address. It is unfortunate that we have had some day cares that have had to close down because there was no funding out there for them.
I would like to ask the Minister if the money that is being earmarked now for day cares, how many day cares are lined up to get some of this funding? Has it been already put out there? How many day cares do you anticipate being able to help with this funding that you have now? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to cover all three subjects that the honourable Member has made reference to. The DEA situation in Hay River, I understand what the Member is saying, I am open-minded about it. I have spoken with the Member on this and we are prepared to continue to talk. There are challenges for me, Mr. Chairman, because of the implications, and they stretch beyond Hay River.
I understand what the Member is saying, that this is not the world's end of money, but if we can do it in Hay River, we can do it in other communities in the Territories. That is one of the challenges, Mr. Chairman. I have tried to state that to the Hay River individuals to understand that I cannot just say yes, go ahead because of this. I am prepared to continue to work to see if we can find some sort of process that makes sense, but I do have challenges in this. I will leave it at that.
On the harmonization, we have delayed the implementation to give us an opportunity to address the specific issue that has very rightfully been brought forward by the Members, that individuals were not notified of the exact amounts of the rents, if they were receiving a rent increase. We need to do that. We need to get out there to tell those in the public who are going to be negatively affected by this of what kind of effect they will face. Additionally, we want to ensure that we are fair in the process, Mr. Chairman.
The third item, on day cares, we are putting $1 million more into day cares. It increases substantially the amount of support for a day care operator for startup, for O and M, operating and maintenance, Mr. Chairman, because we recognize that it was skimpy going for a lot of these operations. Most of them are volunteer, some of them are private businesses, but it is almost impossible to keep them operating on the kind of money they were being supported in. This, of course, is for licensed day cares, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. General comments. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Delorey.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to touch on graduation rates. I know Mr. Bell spoke on them a bit. Not so much the graduations but maybe the lack of, and the people who get caught just short of that stage.
We have a number of students who get lost in the high schools around the grade 10 mark, even between grade 8 and grade 12, who do not get through the school system. It is not because they are not good kids and they do not want to work. Some of them would make excellent workers and have an interest in only a specific field.
It has been brought to my attention a number of times that we are lacking in services out there that can pick these kids up. Whether it is partnering with industry, if it is someone who wants to get into welding or whatever trades that are out there, and they only need specific subjects in a grade 12 equivalency to get into that stream.
Are there any programs out there, or anyone working with industry who can identify some programs that these kids can get into, where they only have to take certain subjects to reach that grade equivalency that allows them to get into that trade and get themselves ready to get out there into the world and make some productive choices? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 624
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some reference has been made today to graduation rates. I should point out something here, Mr. Chairman, that I think is important in it all. It is true, on a comparative basis, on a national basis, that the graduation rates are below national rates. There is no question about that. How that works is on the basis of taking 18 year olds, and that is the comparison. If we were to also take into account the 19 to 24 year olds, our graduation rates would increase by 10 percent.
The other factor that is not taken into account here are those individuals who drop out of school, take adult basic education, adult literacy and obtain the ability to enter into an apprenticeship program or a college program. We do not count those as part of our graduates. A lot of people have come back into the system who could be regarded as graduates from our system, even though they may have dropped out of our system at grade 11 with 90 credits, but they are not considered a graduate. They may have grade 9 and over time have improved themselves with literacy programs. Those individuals are not part of our system.
We have access programs at Aurora College for people who do not have grade 12 in nursing and in teacher education. It is a tremendous, successful program. You know, we have to look at the overall picture in this. I will carry on, Mr. Chairman, because the Member had specific questions.
On possibilities for students who do drop out, yes, it is a very critical area because we recognize people are dropping out. We are in the process of developing some alternate pathways for those individuals who see challenges in trying to get through high school. Right now, we have two processes. One is academic. The second is through the SNAP program, which is an apprenticeship style program. We are developing a third, and that would take into consideration occupations so that a person can go out to the workforce, get experience and then graduate with a diploma that would indicate on that diploma what kind of graduation that would be.
There are two other pathways in addition to that, which we are working on but do not have instituted yet. We have support from educators throughout the Territory on that, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Delorey.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Would that have to follow an Alberta curriculum, or would that be a program that would be controlled from our territorial level and would be recognized for any trade outside of the Territories as well?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Dr. Foley, please.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
Dr. Foley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The desired pathway would not give a diploma. It would give a certificate and it would be our own Northwest Territories certificate. It would be for those students who do not wish to go on to University but would like to get into an occupation, as Minister Ootes mentioned. They would take, for example, applications. That is a new curriculum we have developed this year, although we do not yet have the resource money for that. It is an applied course of studies rather than theoretical.
For example, we would have a communications English rather than a literature course. These courses that we are looking at for our students so they will experience success are not necessarily on the same level as those students who would go on to University. They would be our own certificates. They would not come from Alberta, versus a diploma where the student would take the grade 12 diploma exams.
The course that Minister Ootes has mentioned, SNAP, we do not have many students taking SNAP. One of the reasons is that you need higher level courses to take SNAP, which are the apprenticeship courses. You can take 15 credits in those. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Delorey.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is important to get some programs in place that we can pick up these students and get them ready for trades. Even though they cannot meet a full grade 12 equivalency that a trade may require, but it may only be needed in certain subjects to allow them into a certain trade.
I think there is room for improvement in the programs we have now to pick up these kids and get them through. It leads into the next area that I would like to address, but my colleague, Mr. McLeod, addressed it a bit. It is in the area of training. I think we are lacking an awful lot of training right now. If we are serious about and firmly believe that we are going to go ahead with the Mackenzie Valley pipeline and oil and gas exploration is going to take off, we are slow in the training. I think we have some very good examples to show us that once you wait for industry to be there, up and operating, and then you try and catch up to the industry with training, it is problematic.
I think it is very problematic in our diamond industry right now. We heard down in New York that some of these businesses are having a hard time trying to make a go of it because they do not have the trained people. They are trying to train them as they go along and it is problematic. They just cannot get caught up and put out enough product.
I think the same thing is going to happen in the oil and gas industry. If we wait until it is fully blown and going forward to try and start training people I think we are going to start to fall behind and it is going to be problematic for us.
If we are serious about big industry and oil and gas, I think we really have to put some training programs in place and try to get ahead of the game. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 625
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct, there is a tremendous opportunity out there. We do have programs in place. Is it enough? I do not think so, but we are making due with what we have. As a government ourselves, we are making a fairly decent investment. We do need the support of another jurisdiction, and that is the federal government, who are beneficiaries of this.
I must say industry has been very good and cooperative and working in many instances. There are shortcomings out there too and I think we have some challenges to work on those industries to say "Look, our people are most important."
I have been back and forth to Calgary, I am continuing that, to get a handle more and more on how we persuade industry to be participants. As I said, I have to be complimentary to some industries. Many of them out there are very supportive. We are trying to work together on this whole thing with many partners here. It is the people themselves, it is industry, it is federal government, it is our groups and so forth.
There is no doubt that we are working on short-term training plans. Safety training is a big part of it. We are working on longer-term plans, and that is getting people advanced training so they can get the jobs they should have and rightfully should retain. My assistant deputy minister is part of a pipeline planning group that includes all of the players, Mr. Chairman, and that just happened recently.
The next area that has been identified is environmental monitoring, which I know Members are very interested in. We want to continue to see what we can do in that whole area. We have a lot of areas that we can work on. It is a matter of can we get enough resources and speed up here to try to address it for all people in the Territories? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. McLeod.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few more general comments to make. I am glad to hear the Minister has recognized that there is a need in the area of training and is identifying some of the potential solutions. However, I want to raise an issue that has really affected my community, and that is regarding housing.
Public housing is an area where there is a problem. I am not sure how many people are on income support or have been on income support. However, they are all low-income earners and at last count, we had six people evicted, who had to move out of their houses. I am told that we are going to see another 12 in the next month. Following that, we have another 30 on the list. We have roughly 50 people, 50 families in the community of Fort Providence that have been or are targeted for eviction. That is roughly 25 percent of all the households in that community. It is a real concern.
Until now, seniors have not had to pay rent. With the new harmonization strategy, they are targeted to pay rent. To me, it does not make sense. I do not think the whole strategy was initiated to bring additional hardship on the seniors in the communities. I wanted to know, because I am looking at some of the information that has been put out there by the public and some of the information that has been provided to us, the charts show a good portion, a large percentage, I think 83 percent would see reduction in rents.
I do not understand that. Seniors are now going to have to start paying rent. People receiving income support will see no change. Students will have to start paying rent. Is it because we are looking at reducing the minimum requirement of minimum monthly payment from $32 down to $20 that we are going to see such a big reduction, so many people will see a reduction in their rent? Is that what we are talking about, the people who are currently paying $32 and will now only have to pay $20 and we are supposed to stand up and cheer for that? Is that what we are talking about here?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The people who are affected by this will be income support individuals, low-income earners, students and seniors. The numbers, in the case of income support, low-income earners and students, in most cases are not negatively impacted. As a matter of fact, low-income earners benefit through this program. In some cases, seniors are affected.
However, as we had stated, what we are looking at most will be those who are negatively affected are ones that will be affected by up to $100 per month. What we have stated is that we need to look at the methodology of implementation of this. It needs a bit of time so that we can notify individuals of the implementation and, as I say, the methodology of implementation.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. McLeod.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, my understanding is that we are going to be looking at the reduction in rent for low-income earners in public housing, who are currently paying $32 a month. We are going to reduce it to $20 a month, so every household will be saving $12. When it comes to seniors, in some cases where both seniors are receiving a pension up to $2,000, they will be paying around $300.
So on one end of the scale, we are raising the rent amounts from zero to $300 for some people and for the majority, we are reducing it by $12. That seems to be the selling point. I would like to ask the Minister if he could give me an explanation for that.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are individuals in public housing who earn incomes that are considered fairly high, hence the reason for increasing the rents, Mr. Chairman. After all, social housing is meant for individuals with low incomes, those who cannot afford it. The staff show that there are a lot of individuals in social housing that are high-income earners.
So the funding, if they pay the appropriate rent according to incomes, then that revenue will be taken and redistributed to provide a productive choice incentive for those who are on income support, low-income students and low-income earners, Mr. Chairman. There is a productive choice for those who are perhaps financially challenged in our society. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 626
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. McLeod.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I want to point out to the Minister that when we dealt with student financial assistance over the last year or so, there were a lot of concerns raised. The students demonstrated very well that the financial assistance they are receiving is just not enough. In this case, we have a Minister who is responsible for Education, responsible for training, and he is also responsible for the harmonization program, the strategy. If you ever walk into a community and take a look and get an inventory of the houses there, you will find that there is a severe shortage.
I pointed out yesterday in my Member's statement, 40 percent of the houses in Fort Providence are in core need. If you are a resident of that community, or any other community that is considered to be a small community in the North, you are lucky if you get a house. Once you get a house in public housing, you do not move.
In this case, what we are trying to do here is start charging students a higher fee. I would like to ask the Minister if he could tell me how increasing the rates for students in post-secondary or in training programs is going to encourage the people in the communities to go and take the courses, if they know they are going to have to pay rent while they are gone, if they know they are going to end up losing their house. How does this really fit into the larger scheme of things? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I have to point out that the housing issue, the lead on that is the Housing Corporation. Where our department enters into it is when it comes to redistribution of the funding for income support and the low-income earners. That is our role, Mr. Chairman, and that is how we have entered into it.
What we must remember is that we may have a case of a student paying $300 rent, in a lot of cases $200, depending on the size of their accommodation, yet we have other students who have much higher income who are paying $20 rent or $30 rent. It becomes an equity situation, Mr. Speaker.
I am not denying that there is a housing need out there but that is something that my department does not enter into. That is a housing situation and we work closely with the Housing Corporation. The need for housing is one that has to be addressed by the Housing Corporation.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. McLeod.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Michael McLeod Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I cannot believe the Minister would try to shrug off the responsibilities for students and housing here. It is clearly an additional cost to anybody who is planning to go back to school if this program comes into place. He should take that into consideration and he should be reminded that he has joint responsibility for this program along with the Minister for the Housing Corporation. He cannot defer any of the responsibility to another Minister.
I understand one of the issues that is also part of the strategy is to start passing on the delivery service of income support to housing officers. LHOs are being targeted to deliver income support programs. I want to know what kind of training there is in place. This strategy was targeted to be implemented April 1st. There has been no training. Now we are talking about income support being delivered out of housing offices. What kind of training is out there? What are the plans? If it is anything like the oil and gas training that we are seeing, then I have a lot of room for concern, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, on the student housing situation, Mr. Chairman, we do our best in order to provide as much housing as we can for our students through the college system. What we have to recognize is that our students who are in the housing provided by the college are paying $200, $300, $400 rent, but there are many students out there who have incomes far beyond those students. They may have incomes of several thousands of dollars a month. They pay $30 a month because they are in social housing. There is an equity matter here, Mr. Chairman, that has to be taken into consideration. Not to be shoving people out of housing, that is not the point. However, there is the matter of need to address the issue of who can afford what. That is important in the whole thing.
I will ask Ms. Allen to address the issue of training with regard to the harmonization.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Yes, the Member had asked about training in terms of the harmonization project. For this next year, we are looking at one co-location site. It is in Fort Resolution, where we would do a pilot there and we would train the staff, both the Housing Corporation and the Education, Culture and Employment staff, on both the programs. Throughout the next year when the harmonization project goes through, we will be cross-training both staff. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Does the committee wish to go into detail? Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to be brief on this one, but following up on Mr. McLeod's questioning on students and where they might find themselves, knowing that this harmonization package was in there and if implemented, would impact on students, how is the department going to address the fact that in some communities, you have a student who qualifies for student financial assistance and travels outside the community and at times, if it is a short program, they could hang on to their home in their home community yet have to pay rent in a different location. Now, they would have to pay rent in their own home. It is double jeopardy here.
I have some concerns that would mirror Mr. McLeod's in that area, because now we are going to hit students twice, in that aspect. Is that addressed somehow in the student financial assistance? Is there going to be an increased allotment for accommodation?
My understanding is that you are allowed a certain amount of money for accommodation and so much for food. There is criteria established on the existing model now. If you throw this in there, that would not be addressed. So all of a sudden, you are going to find students in a crunch, short $300 or $400 a month. How is that being addressed?
In closing, how has that been considered in the overall implementation? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you. The Member raises a very good question. If any student is keeping two houses in two locations, it is going to cost more. There is no doubt about that. If the student is in college housing, there are set amounts in the college housing. Through student financial assistance, there is money for that.
In terms of in the community, how I would expect it will happen is that if they are in a productive choice, that will be taken into consideration.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That leads to some concern because not all communities have the same definition of productive choice or what is available. There still would be some rent situation into that.
When somebody applies for student financial assistance and the requirement of funds are taken into consideration, would there not in fact be a consideration of what their accommodations are? If they find they are in a home community and manage to take a course in their home community and their rent is taken care of, then student financial assistance would not necessarily pay them any funding for lodging. Is that correct?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Let's take a single student. A single student would have, for a living allowance, $700. That would be called their living allowance. It could include accommodation and food. They would have that amount.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So it would not matter if you were in public housing or student housing provided by the campus or college, you would qualify for the same amount of money?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
You would qualify for the amount of money. You may need more money, so there would be a needs-assessed loan, depending on your category, so you could qualify for that as well.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, in some student's cases, they would have to go for a needs-assessed loan and create a larger debt for themselves before they go back into the workforce. The other side is if you are in college housing, in those cases, cafeterias are available. Is a meal amount included in that college housing or is it separate from that?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Minister Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's go back to a single student. A single student would get $700. That amount of money would be the living allowance. The college, for example, in Fort Smith, they have accommodations there where you can buy your own food. You would get the amount of money from student financial assistance and you would use it for your accommodation and your food.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, we use a single individual going to a campus facility, whether it is their home community, and I will use Inuvik for an example. In their home community, in public housing right now, if they become a student at a college, I believe their rent is $32 a month. They would go and apply for student financial assistance for the rest of it. When student financial assistance does a review of that, do they not take into consideration what their rent situation would be? If they are in public housing, they are only paying $32 a month. That would be part of the assessment of what would be required? If they are requiring student housing through the campus, they would need three hundred and some dollars a month. Is that not all taken into the picture to come up with what that student would receive on a monthly basis?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That goes back to my original question about how has the department looked at addressing, if this does go ahead, the increased costs that would come into the picture for students who are in public housing? That would increase the cost to student financial assistance, or do you feel there is enough money in there right now that would come into the picture and they would qualify for that higher amount?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Yes, it will have an impact, but as I said before, if they are in a productive choice, there will be an amount of money that will be reduced from that. For example, if they are in a productive choice, they could have a decrease of $250 per month, so a lot of it will be offset.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I am going to school on this new harmonization and student financial assistance. Going back to school would be considered a productive choice, in all communities. We are encouraging back to school, so it would be included as a productive choice. Then they would receive a reduced amount of rent. We are getting a little bit complicated here.
If somebody is just going to school, it is hard enough already dealing with students who are trying to figure out student financial assistance. Now we throw the housing mix into it and say your rent is going to go up by $300 a month or more, but you are going to school, so it is a productive choice, so we will reduce it by $200.
What is the net gain here? What is the net difference?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
I think what I should say to you is that we do not have all the details worked out. You have asked a very good question. We will have to take that into consideration and we will get back to you on this.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. What is the wish of the committee? Detail?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Detail.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
We are going to detail, page 9-9, directorate and administration, operations expense, total operations expense, $4,818,000. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I get a breakdown of what the $2,291,000 is in other expenses please?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you will just give us a moment here. Mr. Chairman, the directorate is $114,000 for materials and supplies and purchase contract services; policy and planning is $356,000 for employee benefits, BFAP, whatever that is, education leave; $16,000 for self-government; $138,000 for miscellaneous costs, which is travel, material, supplies; management services, assisting in maintenance and there is ongoing support for CMAS and computer chargebacks of $1,308,000; departmental contracts are fax copiers, mail courier, $210,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies, $149,000.
We can provide a copy of this to the Member, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted those numbers on the record. Thank you. I am quite happy the Minister has provided them for Hansard.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. We are now in detail, directorate and administration, operations expense, total operations expense, $4,818,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Page 9-10, advanced education and careers. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We know from the budget speech and the Minister's statements in the House that we have reinvested a significant amount of money that would have been otherwise saved under the Income Support Program. I do not think we have ever heard the details. I was wondering if we could get some detail on what this reinvestment is going to achieve.
We have heard there are going to be increases in some areas. How does it break down? What is it going to mean to people on income support? Do we have some of that information available?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Yes, we have approximately $1.5 million, as the Member has mentioned, that we are reinvesting. Of that, we are reinvesting $580,000 into the food benefit area, which will include personal items, Mr. Chairman, which we have been asked to include as a concern.
Additionally, we are reinvesting $250,000 into the single accommodation benefit. The single accommodation at the present time is $500 a month. That is going to $750 a month.
We are looking at approximately $70,000 for exemption of GST rebate income.
Improving the administration formula, that is $200,000, Mr. Chairman. In communities, we have community organizations delivering this program. We are encountering and we want to support and build up community capacity to be able to deliver this.
We are raising the disability allowance from $225 a month to $300 a month. Over the past year, we have increased that by 100 percent from $175; not quite 100 percent, but it was $175 a year ago.
The seniors' home heating subsidy, we are putting in $100,000 there, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister giving some details, particularly in the areas where he provided, for instance, the change from $500 a month to $750 a month for singles accommodation.
Under the food benefit, increasing that by $580,000 does not help people understand what that means to an individual or family. I know that just last week, we had a demonstration here in the Great Hall that showed us what was contained in what is considered to be a healthy food basket, according to one source. Could the Minister advise, is this $580,000 going to allow us, for instance, to achieve a healthy food basket in what we are supplying for people on income support?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The increase we are looking at, Mr. Chairman, over the past year by approximately 13 to 15 percent in the food basket area, I understand what that represents is approximately, give or take a few percentage points, about 75 percent what we would term a healthy food basket. I sort of relied on my officials to provide that to me, the director of income support.
What must be taken into account is there are federal programs as well that are provided that add to our funding. In other words, our funding is for the food benefit, but individuals additionally receive, on a monthly basis, child benefit funding and so forth. It increases that 75 percent even more, Mr. Chairman, to a healthy food basket. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure that Northern residents who are forced to get by on income support will have trouble making ends meet. With us only providing 75 percent of a healthy food basket, this has to have some impact when you are expecting people to make productive choices in order to stay on a program.
If a person is worried about whether or not their children are being adequately fed, or whether they have to find supplementary food or go to some other source to try and make sure there is enough food in the house, it cannot make their life any easier when they are trying to, for instance, better their lives through education, if that is the productive choice they have agreed to.
Surely we have to be looking at ways to increase it above the 75 percent level in the food benefit. Is the Minister not concerned that this has to have some impact on people's ability to pull themselves out of the cycle of dependency that we often find people in who are trapped on income support?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I stated, our funding formulates approximately 75 percent of what could be termed a healthy food basket. Additionally, there is federal funding, such as the national child benefit, that also comes into play here, that also contributes on a monthly basis to the income of income support people.
What has to be considered and taken into account here, Mr. Chairman, is the balance between those on income support and those who are low-income earners. We have to consider that and always take that concern, because what we provide on income support is the cost of housing, and it does not matter what the cost is. If public housing is available, then they are able to obtain that or we pay the cost of whatever it may cost for an individual to be accommodated in private housing.
We also pay for the utilities. We pay for a clothing allowance on an annual basis. It is $200 to $250 per person, per year. We also pay for a furniture allowance. An individual can earn $400 per month that would be considered earned income and is exempted.
We do have what I think is a balanced area for individuals to have a situation where they can move into a productive choice and accommodate themselves. The program was never meant as a lifestyle program, Mr. Chairman. I should also point out in most cases, we are two times the national payment that is made here. If you work all that out to an hourly rate, it is quite substantial.
We have to be concerned about the balance between low-income earners and those on income support. At what point do we discourage people from making the productive choice and discourage them from going to work but stay on income support? Thank you.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that I personally agree with the Minister that we want to make sure the people who work are not penalized for going to work, so that is an important issue. I think we also want to make sure that people are not deprived of being successful in a productive choice because they or their kids are hungry. I think we have to be careful and walk a very fine line here.
Perhaps one of the areas we need to examine is the sharp cutoff. I know we are allowing up to $400 per month for earned income to be kept without it affecting the amount of income support, but perhaps there needs to be a sliding scale. Perhaps we need to find some way to continue past that $400 per month to encourage people to enter the wage economy.
If we are now concerned about the benefits, look at providing them on a sliding scale so we can make sure people have adequate nutrition, yet we are still finding a way to encourage their entry into the wage economy.
Mr. Chairman, I also wonder if we could get some details on the changes that are proposed to the seniors' home heating subsidy. The Minister says there is $100,000 there, but what is that going to mean to seniors across the Northwest Territories?
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I think Mr. Dent has a very good point about looking at a sliding scale for the amount of earned income. I think that is a good suggestion for us to take up and see what we can do in that area. We need to continue the program that was instituted back in the mid-90s, 1996, I believe. I think Mr. Dent may have developed this system, which I think is very good. I am sure the Member still agrees with that.
I know the federal government has done some programs on this to provide a combined system. It was done in B.C. and one of the other provinces, whereby individuals were allowed, and supported financially through income support, but allowed to keep what they earned. We can take a look at that program and see how it worked and how successful it was.
On the seniors benefit, Mr. Chairman, this was an important area because Members had raised a lot of concerns about that previously, of the inequity if you were in an area that had a colder climate, longer winters and so forth. What has been done is that the amount of support provided is different per zone. Zone one has, by way of example, five cords of wood and zone two would be increased to six cords of wood, zone three would be seven cords of wood, or the equivalent, Mr. Chairman, of fuel supply; natural gas, propane, oil, wood or electricity.
The other thing that we have done is raised the thresholds for zones one, two, and three. The threshold was $30,000, which has been increased to $35,000. Then we have a sliding scale for that, so you get 75 percent for $1,200 above that, 50 percent for $2,500 above that, and 25 percent for $3,700 above that. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, in his responsibility under income support, if he has changed his position on clawing back the portion paid to clients who are on income support and are given money from their chief, council and Metis governments from the IBAs they have negotiated with industry? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The impact benefit agreements have been an issue, Mr. Chairman, which several Members have asked me about. The difficulty we face with this, Mr. Chairman, is that we do not have access to the content of the impact benefit agreements because they are private agreements between a corporation and a land claims organization or an aboriginal group.
We have no indication that is related, Mr. Chairman, to a land claim benefit. I have to adhere to the policy, Mr. Chairman, because of that. As I said, we have no access to those particular agreements. If we did, perhaps we could be more definitive as to whether they are or are not related directly to treaties.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the fact that these IBAs, or impact benefit agreements, are negotiated with First Nations people and First Nations governments, chiefs and councils on behalf of their members, would the Minister not agree that this is an indication that it is based on aboriginal inherent or treaty rights, for the resources and lands that have been affected? Thank you.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not have the evidence of that. The legal advice we have been provided follows the policies as we apply them. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the fact that these agreements are with the First Nations and Metis should be indication enough that these are based on the rights that were there prior to the federal or territorial government establishment.
I would like to ask the Minister, he does have a legal opinion on an agreement that he does not have a copy of, has never seen a copy of these agreements. How can the department have a legal opinion on a document they do not even have access to or have not seen? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The treatment that has been given to this is that it is an agreement between a private corporation and an aboriginal group, Mr. Chairman. It would be no different than, for the moment, as far as we can see, income earned from a building they may own in the community. I guess that is just the point. We do not know that.
The legal opinion that has been provided states without having other information, there is just no way to suggest that this is a benefit. Plus, there are further items that would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that if the provision is made that it is a payment to the organization but in turn, that the organization provides it to the individuals, if it is not included in the IBA agreement, then the benefit could be considered as a gift from an organization. It is clear in our regulations that would not be considered as part of the treaties. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think industry or any business is in the habit of giving $1 million to an aboriginal organization as a gift. I am sure there is something deeper than that here, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask the Minister, has he looked into the history of these agreements? In asking him questions and his answers in question period and committees, he does not seem to have a good understanding of the history of these agreements.
What kind of knowledge does he have of these agreements to make these policy decisions based on legal opinions on documents that have not even been seen by the department or their lawyers? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have had two legal opinions on this and summaries have been provided to the Members, Mr. Chairman. I am following the opinions that have been provided, Mr. Chairman. We are following the regulations for income support as laid down according to the findings of these legal opinions. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
I have seen those legal opinions, or one of the legal opinions, and it is very weak at best. I think what we have here is a lack of political will by the Minister to deal with this issue. Unfortunately, the chiefs and councils and aboriginal leaders may have to get involved at this level. I was hoping we could avoid that and deal with it.
I would like to ask the Minister, how often, in his knowledge, does the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs get involved in deals that are made that are considered a private agreement between industry and private individuals or organizations, as the Minister had put it in answering my questions and the questions in the House? To his knowledge, how often does the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs from the federal government get involved with private deals at this level? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no answer for that. I do not know what the federal Minister does on a national basis or on a territorial basis. I should point out here, Mr. Chairman, that the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs in our government took a question form the honourable Member, and the Minister said he would look into this situation as well. Aboriginal Affairs will look into this situation and I think that is perhaps an appropriate way to deal with this. As I say, I am not trying to be obstinate here and I am not trying to be difficult. It is just that we have no access to this information, so we have to go on the basis of what we do know. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if you put everything into context here, I do not understand how the Minister can say, "We have no indication." We know the fact that these agreements are with First Nations on behalf of their members, and it is usually a First Nation in close proximity to a development site, so there is a strong indication right there in itself.
We also know the history of how IBAs became a reality in the Territories. It was the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs who strongly indicated to industry, to First Nations and to this government that IBAs should be negotiated with a deadline of 30 days. If there is more indication short of seeing these agreements, I do not know what it is.
I would like to ask again, how could the Minister miss the indications that these are based on treaties and/or aboriginal rights? It deals with the issue of ownership of land and ownership of resources. If that is the case, then under the policy of income support where it deals with treaties they do not touch that. That is outside the realm of this government to deal with that. I think the recent court case, the Benoit case, reaffirms that position taken by First Nations and reaffirms the position taken by the Akaitcho to begin with, that this is a peace and friendship treaty where we never extinguished our rights to our lands and resources. What more does he need, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to reiterate that the question was asked of the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs to look into this situation, and I am sure he will have his officials do that. As well, my officials have been talking to some of the officials in the Dogrib region to see if alternatives can be worked out and how we can proceed on this. It is not as though we are turning a completely blind eye to the whole situation, Mr. Chairman, but I do have to respect the intent of the policy and the regulations that are in place. Thank you.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for consistency sake, I would like to ask if I could get the Minister to detail what is included in the $26.2 million in other expenses here.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would be glad to provide that and again, we can provide a copy to the Member or Members. I will give the breakdown if the Member would like for the record: • Colleges, minor capital, $235,000; miscellaneous, which is travel, materials, supplies and purchased services of $48,000; adult basic education and literacy, curriculum exam development, $31,000; miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies of $17,000; and the GNWT literacy strategy, $400,000; •
Under apprenticeship, apprenticeship training, which is on-the-job subsidy contracts, upgrading programs, exam development, $1,081,000; evaluation and tuition promotion, $453,000; occupational training and development, $379,000; diamond training subsidy, $122,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies of $42,000; •
Under career employment development, training-on-the-job subsidy contracts, $611,000; oil and gas training-on-the job subsidy contracts, $450,000; youth at work, $1 million; career centres, $117,000; curriculum development and career counselling training, $161,000; labour market development contracts, $41,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials, etc. $69,000;•
Under public service career training, trainee courses, $62,000; and miscellaneous travel, materials and supplies, $20,000;•
Income assistance, systems support, $430,000; income assistance benefits, $14 million; seniors supplementary benefit, $1,953,000; wood and fuel subsidy, $422,000; day care user subsidy, $1,042,000; and miscellaneous, $114,000;•
Under student financial assistance, remission and write-offs to loan recipients, $2,761,000; systems support, $800,000; and miscellaneous, $99,000; and•
Under regional management, miscellaneous, which is travel, materials, et cetera, $107,000.
For a total of $26,285,000. Thank you.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to ask this question regularly as we come to other expenses and really, this information has been provided to committee, but my point is that with one category here of $26 million, we have no breakdown in these budget books. I think it is important the public understands where the expenditures are.
I would point out that the $26 million is a larger expenditure than what you find in some other parts of this book for a whole department. I think it is essential that we find a way to start including some of this information in the budget books for future reference. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The Minister did commit to supplying that breakdown. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I will provide a copy to the Members. With regard to Mr. Dent's request and comment, I will ensure that the Minister of Finance is advised of that comment and request. I will have to leave it to the Minister of the Financial Management Board to consider that, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Page 9-11, advanced education and careers, operations expense, total operations expense, $69,363,000.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Page 9-13, advanced education and careers, grants and contributions, grants, $8,356,000. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this afternoon I was fortunate enough to be invited to give a talk at a conference sponsored and organized by the committee on mobilization on small communities and their involvement in this unprecedented time of economic boom. There is a lot of optimism there but there are a lot of concerns.
From personal experience dealing with my constituents on a number of issues regarding this, Mr. Chairman, the problem in the Territories is not so much getting a job but it is keeping a job. We could train and we could have all kinds of apprenticeships going but if the people's self-esteem is low, and their life skills are such that they do not conform with the requirements of the work environment and the lifestyles of what they do outside of work all contribute to what we are seeing in some of the regions. Especially in my constituency, there are a lot of people quitting their jobs or getting fired or not qualifying because of job restrictions and policies of the companies.
What is the department doing under their responsibility of training people to address the fact that there is a certain amount of low self-esteem at the community level, which is contributing directly to the lack of participation in this booming economy? In other words, we are spending a great deal of money training people, but if those we train are not mentally ready to work, what are we doing to address that area of concern? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will make a comment first and then I will ask Ms. Allen as well to comment. The Member has a very good point. It is challenging for people to move into the workforce. Once they are into the workforce, to be able to upgrade themselves and continue with ensuring they get the jobs that are beyond just the access level and that they get the kind of positions that are more supervisory, more skilled and so forth.
The Member well knows that we have a lot of programs in place but this is an area that may still require a lot of work. I will ask Ms. Allen to address what we do have at the moment, what kind of programs we have in place.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At Aurora College, we have personal skills courses offered. We have the student success centres at the college as well, which provide some assistance in that area. In a number of communities, we have been offering bridging programs, or transitional programs, between school and work or not working and beginning to work. They would take a short training course that would help to build self-esteem and to assist them with some of the skills they would need in order to go into the workplace.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that is all good but more and more, we are seeing the short-term training going to the communities. I think more assistance at the community level would be beneficial to Northerners. I think there is room here to be able to work with the Department of Health and Social Services in addressing the real reason why people are not participating in the boom of the day.
Another suggestion I would give to the department is that through the socio-economic agreements that we have with industry, as the Government of the Northwest Territories they should be able to place people on-site to assist them right there at work, so it is not just at one end and not the other. I think we have to address this problem, which is a major problem, from both ends, at the community level and at the work site.
Would the Minister commit to that suggestion and work with the Department of Health and Social Services through the socio-economic agreements and place people at the work site and assist the companies in retaining the people? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is no doubt that some of the companies out there have developed some models along what Mr. Nitah is suggesting. Diavik is a good example of that. They have a training group that goes into communities. They take a welding course, for example, pre-trades welding, and assist individuals through an instructor to be able to access and write the entrance exam to go into apprenticeship.
We have adult education programs, of course, which help people to upgrade themselves. Then we need to work with, and we are starting to work on an integrated basis with Health and Social Services to look at those kinds of areas. I am using the example for early childhood. I understand what Mr. Nitah is saying. You cannot just stop there. You have to do it for adults too, but early childhood is where we are integrating both our services together, to say in a community "Okay, why work in isolation from each other? Do it together."
I will use early childhood as an example. We are identifying the resource of people available, the resource, accommodations, et cetera, in communities. Where can we conduct programs? How can we do this? What are the shortcomings?
I think Mr. Nitah has a point. On an adult basis, we need to also be concerned about that.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, through his responsibilities for the employment side of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, what is the Minister doing to address the major concern in the Territories that we are seeing too many southern people flying over our heads and working up in the mines, or up in the Beaufort-Delta, when there are regions such as the Sahtu, who are not participating to the level that they should be? What is he doing to reduce the number of fly-in workers and increase the number of our own people landing these jobs in the boom that we are having today, even if it is to use...is he using the socio-economic agreements that we signed to address this concern? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, Mr. Chairman, this is a very good area. It has some concern for us as to how do we address the whole issue of more and more employment for Northerners? After all, that is what our job is, to ensure that our people gain the employment, that our people gain the benefits.
In the diamond development and mining area, there were socio-economic agreements developed and signed, which did address the amount of employment that could take place. That has not been the case yet, in the case of the hydrocarbon development. We are a bit in a problematic situation in that, for the moment, because the land permits are not issued by our government. They are issued by the federal government. They have not put the restrictions on there. What I should say, they have not put in place the kind of socio-economic benefits that we feel should be in place.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think when the diamond mining companies are coming up here requesting participation and cooperation from our government to help them lobby the federal government for permits, at that point, I believe they were not interested in coming up with socio-economic agreements either. The secondary industry was a good example. Mr. Todd is known to have this great quote. He says "We will introduce taxes that will choke a mule." So we do have some cards that we can play in that area.
I want to address the upcoming potential and see what the Minister is doing to ensure that people are ready. As you know, Mr. Chairman, the application for land use permits to build a pipeline down the Mackenzie is in the works. Sometimes we look at, to use an analogy, we look at the centre ice so much that we miss the whole ice sheet. Somebody told me that outside of the pipeline itself, there is a $33 billion spin-off industry that is associated with the pipeline. I want to know what the department is doing to prepare people to take advantage of that.
An example might be, what is his relationship with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in terms of training people and helping little businesses get started? Let's say a crew of welders that could go to the companies and say "We will weld you a section of the pipe."Or surveyors will go help survey one rib of the pipe. As you know, there will be a pipeline and the theory and vision right now is that there is going to be a bunch of little pipes that are going to feed into the big ones. That is part of the $33 billion spin-off industry. I would like to know what the department is doing to prepare Northerners to take advantage of the employment and business opportunities associated with the $33 billion spin-off industry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
From the early days, Mr. Chairman, our department has recognized that we need to address not just the hydrocarbon development and the mining development, but training in all areas of possibilities.
We developed a human resource development plan. That went to the federal government. We tried to get some money from them to help us out. So far, we are continuing our effort in that whole area to see if we cannot get the federal government to participate.
My ADM had participated and is continuing to participate in what we call an action team that consisted of RWED, ourselves, the federal government through DIAND, HRDC, the aboriginal groups and industry. The action team was going to move forward to request funding from the federal government through our human resource development plan. That all came to a screeching halt last September because of the need for the federal government to put money into the security issue.
We are continuing that. I am trying to revive that so we do get support for it.
Secondly, Ms. Allen is a participant in a team on the pipeline itself. A group has been formulated. Industry is the chair of it. Our two departments are part of it. Federal departments are part of it, and the aboriginal groups are part of it. That is to take care of looking at training and benefits of building the pipeline itself.
We need to go beyond that. Yes, there are opportunities that will be spin-offs, as you have referenced, that we need to say how do we get the training for those people? That is where I go back to I need support funding from the federal government. We as a territorial government have continued to put some money into this, to the tune of $7 million a year, which we started last summer, the Maximizing Northern Employment, because we have to build capacity for our own people.
Is it enough? Well, it is a lot of money for us, but we could use more. That is where I need the help from federal input here. Thank you.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to have a little more time to continue in this line of questioning. It is an important area. The North is experiencing a boom period. Unfortunately, our people are not ready and we have to have systems to get them ready.
I will set the stage. Our Minister of RWED and the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation have been travelling the North promoting hydro development a great deal in the last year or so. As you know, Mr. Chairman, political will usually is followed by economic development. In this area, I would like to know from the Minister what specifically his department is doing to prepare people, Northerners and First Nations people, who are interested in hydro development. What kind of training programs, if any, do they have to prepare Northerners to participate in employment and business opportunities relating to hydro development? If they do not have any programs, are they planning to introduce any programs? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to relate that back to our plan to develop across the Territory all aspects of human resource development. It is a case of ensuring that there is training and skill development, not just mining and oil and gas, but that it is in all sectors of our economy. Hydro development has tremendous potential for us here in the Territories. We need to be able to build the capacity of communities and groups out there so that they can address issues like hydro development when it comes on their doorstep. What I am speaking of there is, for instance, the development and encouragement of financial officers within the aboriginal organizations, community governments, community corporations, that they develop financial officers, the administrative officers and so forth, so that the capacity starts to be there to be able to deal with the possibility of development in the Territory.
Hydro is certainly there on the front...I do not know where it is on the burner, but it is certainly a potential to be on the front burner.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When it comes to dealing with electricity and hydroelectricity, there is significant training that is necessary. I will give you an example. I was working with the NWT Power Corporation in the community of Deninu Kue, the First Nations there, to do a simple slashing job, because the trees near the power line between Fort Resolution and Pine Point were a danger to the power lines. Just for that slashing job, the individuals had to get chainsaw training, how to deal with electrical wires training. At the end of the day, the cost of the project was less expensive than the training, so there are major requirements, just based on that little potential project that did not go ahead. I am still working on getting it to go ahead. Just from that little project, the employment training that was required from the NWT Power Corporation before they gave that contract was extreme, in my opinion. When you are talking hydro development, construction of hydro sites, et cetera, I imagine the training requirement...I would beg to argue that we have already been knocking on the doors of First Nations. We are already knocking on the doors of business and saying let's get hydro development.
I think it is incumbent on the department to design, at the very least, a training course so that you could use that design to go ask for money. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess how I was saying this before was that by building the capacity, people have transferable skills, so that if an organization out there said "We want to drop some turbines into the river and we need the ability to be able to deal with that. How do we do it?" I guess what I was saying about developing financial officers or administrative officers, there are transferable skills that organizations can say "Now you work on this particular area for us to develop." Hydro development does not take a great deal of hands-on experience once it is built. There is more on the administrative end that is required.
I think the Member has a point in terms of saying what are we doing in terms of that, but we look at it in terms of in total, across the Territory, can we build the capacity of organizations? The organizations in turn will say this is where we need to go next. I do not know if hydro is already, and I will take your word for it, already knocking on the door, developers are saying let's go.
I think I am there to try and say let's build capacity for the organizations.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is never a bad idea to build capacity for organizations, but you cannot expect somebody you train to be a financial officer one day if you then take them to the construction or hydro side. I think it is this kind of attitude that is resulting in us seeing fly-over people going to the mine sites.
I am not talking about building capacity at the organizational level, I think we should be doing that without the hydro or the development. That is what we should have been doing for years. Capacity building should have been started in the school system. It has not worked. That is why we are spending all of this money on training.
Specific to hydro, can the Minister commit to looking into whether there is specific training needed in areas of hydro that are not compatible with other training in the economy of the North? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Yes, Mr. Chairman. We did that in the oil and gas area. We have a listing of all the jobs that are required. We can certainly do the same in hydro development.
When we talk about transferable skills, the Member did reference construction, for example, which is a very good point. What I meant by transferable is that, for example, just last Friday, I was at the graduation ceremony of six young men who have passed their pre-welding course to write the welding exam. That is the sort of thing I think the honourable Member is thinking of.
However, I certainly agree we can start the process of identifying what jobs would be available in the event of hydro development.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no further questions.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Advanced education and careers, grants and contributions, grants, $8,356,000.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was wondering if I could get a breakdown of the funding provided to organizations to deliver literacy programs for literacy funding, $1,657,000.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think I can provide that fairly quickly for the Member. Mr. Chairman, I will ask Ms. Allen to answer that question. Thank you.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just need some clarification. Is it the $1,657,000? All right. $1.4 million of that goes for the Literacy Strategy, and then $257,000 goes for community literacy projects. What I would like to do is just start with the Literacy Strategy and then work back to the community projects.
For the strategy: $700,000 goes to Aurora College; $100,000 has been identified for corrections; $400,000 has been identified for workplace education; for specialized equipment and tutoring for persons with disabilities, $100,000; projects for seniors is $100,000; and literacy outreach is $50,000, which goes to the Yellowknife Association for Community Living.
In addition to that, the three regional offices of Education, Culture and Employment, each of those offices receives $41,000. I have a number of projects. Mr. Chairman, would you like me to name all the projects?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Ms. Allen. Mr. Dent, did you want a listing of the projects? Mr. Dent.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That has provided me with better than 90 percent of the funding. I have some questions about what is contained in the breakdown though, the $700,000 to the Aurora College for community programs. The way this is characterized is contributions to organizations to deliver literacy programs. From that description, I would have thought that these were funds that were going to non-government organizations, or NGOs, rather than to the college. The next line in the budget is college contributions. Why would the $700,000 that was going to the college not have been included in college contributions?
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Devitt
Mr. Chairman, the funding for literacy, at least the contribution funding, is all in under literacy funding. It is because it was approved under the Literacy Strategy that we have chosen to do that. Thank you.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I still have trouble with the way it has been characterized. Rather than organizations, we should put in there to the college and other organizations. I guess it is perhaps not that significant.
I find it hard to see how government agencies and organizations, for instance, I believe I heard that $100,000 here is going to Justice, so we have an interdepartmental transfer going from Education to Justice and it is characterized as a contribution to an organization. I do not understand how Justice can be characterized as an organization. I am just concerned that the accuracy is not what I would expect in a formal budget document.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is partially, as has been pointed out by Mr. Devitt, that we wanted to identify it as the Literacy Strategy. It was originally funded as such, so we wanted to ensure that it continued to be identified as such.
Mr. Dent has a point. We could transfer that but then we lose the ability to identify all of the programs of what the Literacy Strategy is because it has been a very important program to the Members of this House to ensure we introduce. As I recall, it started with a motion from the Members on that side of the House.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I certainly would prefer to see funding for organizations separated from funding that is being used by government agencies. I would hope that we would see that separation in future budgets. Can I get some detail of how the $400,000 for workplace literacy is proposed to be spent?
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you. I will ask Ms. Allen to address this. We are working with the Literacy Council on this, I believe.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
To save time, I actually have sheets with a breakout, I can just submit those, or I can speak to each of the areas.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Ms. Allen. Did you want the information distributed or did you want to go through the information? Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Mr. Chairman, unfortunately, if it is distributed, it is not on the public record, so I would prefer to have the information provided to us so it is in Hansard and available to the public.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Let me begin. In North Slave we have community projects with the Deton'Cho Development Corporation. In Rae-Edzo we have some projects with the band council, with the school, with the hamlet, with the trappers lodge. In Yellowknife we have a workplace project with the Dene Nation, with the Denendeh Development Corporation, with Chartrand Home, with a number of organizations. I could read them all but I am just giving you a summary of them.
In the Inuvik region we have agreements with the Mackenzie Delta Hotel Group and with the day care with the Hamlet of Sachs Harbour. In Deline we have it with the council, with the land corporation, with the housing authority, with the Sahtu Secretariat and with the Bank of Montreal. In Aklavik we have it with the band. In Tsiigehtchic we have it with the community. In Fort McPherson we have it with the Gwich'in Tribal Council. In Norman Wells we have it with Shehtah Drilling. In Fort Good Hope we have it with the community. In Tuktoyaktuk we have it with the hamlet. In South Slave we have a number of projects with the Hay River Reserve and with Shehtah Drilling in Fort Liard.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are all of the projects ongoing, long-term projects or is there an annual application process to access these funds? I guess the reason for the question is, can an employer who is listening in right now apply to access some of these funds or are they all committed for the balance of the year?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. They are committed to the end of March, the end of the fiscal year, and then there will be an advertisement that goes out again for this next fiscal year.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, earlier I was talking about the importance of support for communities, and here I see contributions to the NWT Employment Support Program contributions, which is funding to support northern communities to undertake projects that facilitate local labour force development. The budget has been cut by $350,000 from $500,000 to $150,000. I would like to know why, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The total budget provided for the Maximizing Northern Employment program had a limitation and departments were advised to find the money. It was suggested that this be reduced, but with the recognition that if we continue to have demand there, that we would immediately look at funding those projects, Mr. Chairman. So while it has been reduced, we also want to advise that we are prepared to look at reallocation the moment we get demand for it. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under the adult basic education literacy, literacy funding, contributions to organizations to deliver literacy programs, I imagine those are contributions to Aurora College as well for adult basic education. What is the policy of the department when it comes to adult educators to provide services to the communities? Are they mandated to have positions in communities on a regular basis? The reason I ask this, Mr. Chairman, is because they are interviewing for an adult basic educator in Lutselk'e now. If memory serves me correctly, the adult educator resigned this fall, if not the year before. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Ms. Allen to address this, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
In the past, the Aurora College has only been funded for a certain number of adult education positions. That was at one time 13 and then reduced to 11 when there was some amalgamation one of the adult educator positions was in Fort Smith so it was just given to the college.
With the Literacy Strategy, we have been able to fund positions in over 25 communities. I think part of Mr. Nitah's question was, are they mandated and is there a policy? With the Literacy Strategy, for varying lengths of time in communities based on population, they are funded for a certain period of time for that year. When they are hired, they are required to teach adult basic education, provide services for on-line learning once they have received the training and to look at any skill training programs that the community requires and help to facilitate that training in the community.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am wondering if Lutselk'e and Fort Resolution are going to be part of the 20-odd communities that are going to be having an adult educator. I know that the educator in Fort Resolution is in his last year. That is one part of the question. The other part of the question is, why is it only a part-time position when income support policies dictate productive choices? Productive choices mean education. Most of the income support clients are adults and are not educated well. They could be taught and educated so that they can make productive choices. Why is it only on at a certain time and what is the time period for these people to go in and educate our adults? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I should just let you know that I do not have the information on whether it is full time, 11 months or 10 months but it is based on population for the communities that do not have the full-time adult educators. What I would like to do is to get that information for the Member.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my knowledge is that the needs of Jean Marie River are no different from the needs of Lutselk'e. Lutselk'e's needs are no different from the needs of Yellowknife when it comes to adults who require upgrading. Why is it that we continue to use population base to determine policies and program delivery to Northerners right across the board? We as a government argue time and time again that we should not be penalized for our small population when it comes to financial transfer agreements so why are we doing it to our communities at this level? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Minister Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will look at that and address that issue, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in terms of adult basic education I know one of the challenges for the department in the past has been providing suitable accommodations at the communities level. That is a challenge for all of us as leaders and as Northerners. There is a shortage of housing. I do not know why the census says our population is going down when the need for housing is going up.
What is the department's relationship with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation so that housing is not an issue any further when it comes to hiring resource people in our communities? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things we are doing as part of the Early Childhood Development Plan is to do a survey to see what resources are available in communities. It is being done on the human resource side as well as the accommodation side to see what we do have available.
That is in the ECD side which will give us an indication for other programs as well of what the needs are in the communities and what is required. The issue we can extend further to teachers' accommodations and so forth. I have been working with the Minister of Housing on this whole issue. As a Cabinet we have been consistently addressing the whole issue of accommodations and capability in the communities. It has been addressed at the Minister's meetings with the chairs of the DECs and DEAs as well. It has come to the forefront for us, Mr. Chairman, to address. It is there in terms of how can we accommodate in communities programs that we are delivering for early childhood development, as an example.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
I have no further questions.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A question under oil and gas industry contributions, identified here, $450,000. I would like to know how this would be broken down, if it is by application or is it earmarked for different communities?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe it is divided regionally. It is $150,000 for the three regions that have oil and gas activity in them, Sahtu, Deh Cho and the Beaufort-Delta. This is for labour force development. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regionally, how would it break down from within the region then?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will need a moment here to check that and see where we have that information. Perhaps I will ask Ms. Allen, who may have the information in her head. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Allen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's take the Inuvik region, for example. There is $150,000 there. What our regional superintendent would do is take it to the regional training committee. They would take the $150,000 and look at it in terms of the training they need in that region, and then they would distribute it that way. They would take into consideration some of the partners with the Gwich'in and also with the IRC as well. They would look at where best to put the money. As everybody knows, in this last year, they put a lot of it into the drill rig training.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. We are on advanced education and careers, grants and contributions. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when the Standing Committee on Social Programs was reviewing the draft main estimates with the Minister, one of the areas we discussed with him was tracking student debt. We wanted to make sure we were staying on top of what students in the Northwest Territories were building up in terms of debt on graduation so we would have some way of making sure our program was meeting the requirements of northern students.
We thought one way that could be done was if the department were to incorporate this as part of their indicators in the report Towards Excellence. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I would like to propose a motion. Mr. Chairman,
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
I MOVE that this committee recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment track student debt load as one of the indicators in Towards Excellence, A Report on Education in the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. There is no quorum. I will have to ring the bells.
-- Ringing of the bells
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
We have a motion on the floor. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those against? The motion is carried. Page 9-13, advanced education and careers, grants and contributions, grants, contributions, $8,356,000.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Contributions, page 9-14, total contributions, $27,314,000.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Page 638
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Page 638
The Chair Leon Lafferty
Total grants and contributions, $35,670,000.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Page 638
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Page 9-16, education and culture. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a quick question in this area. Yesterday there was some questions about expanded kindergarten classes. I would like to know from the Minister if this has been looked at and what kind of cost implications it might have. I believe there was some discussions on it yesterday but I cannot recall the numbers.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the initial look at this, a cost figure for age 4 and 5 to expand the kindergarten program, would cost approximately $8 million, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the department looking at moving on this initiative? I think it is a good idea, especially when we discuss early childhood development. In some communities, there might already be room in the schools where there will not be a requirement to add on, capital wise anyway. It is just a matter of O and M. The space might be provided within existing facilities. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are interested in knowing what the cost of this is exactly and what the challenges are in order to extend the program. It is of interest to us, recognizing, of course, the financial hurdle we may face in achieving this. It does make some sense because we are looking at the early childhood program, where we are making an investment. Getting children ready for school is the issue. If we can extend the kindergarten program, that will catapult them into a more advanced level still, to be sure that when they get into grade 1 they are ready for school. It is of interest to us.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to hear that and I hope that this will somehow begin to be implemented, in light of all the information we have about the impacts of early childhood development. When we do look, for example, right now, with all the other money we are spending in the area of adult education, for example, and the Minister spoke about this earlier in reference to some other question, is we have our K-12 program. Then there is your post-secondary, whether that is college, university or trades.
The other side of it is some of those students who drop out of the K-12 program come back as adults. It costs much more at that point. We end up paying for it at that end. If we can impact and start earlier, and those children be ready for it, I think it would be a good thing. Maybe we can even start some pilot programs out there and start to see if we can track it and see what kind of results we would have. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The term has been used, and Mr. Dent referred to it in the report earlier from the Standing Committee on Social Programs, that a dollar investment at an early age can save seven dollars later on. It is very true.
We have to take that into consideration when we say, can we invest more up front? Whether we can find the resources to be able to do that becomes the question. We know it will pay off down the road.
We are looking at a continuum system, early childhood from birth to old age, practically. Now we are in a process of filling in the holes. I do not know whether we can call them holes, but certainly areas that we can refine. We have an Early Childhood Program that takes care of birth to age 4, 5, 6. We need to take care of the 4, 5, 6 in the K-12 program. We are making refinements from K-12. Then transition to work or transition to university, et cetera, or higher education, and even those who are not in the system with adult education, Mr. Chairman. Early childhood can do tremendous things for us, no question.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Roland.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In a different area under the education and culture, other expenses, $5.6 million. Can I get some information as to what that would entail? Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
That is on page 9-17, I believe the Member is referring to. I will give the breakdown, Mr. Chairman, of the amounts. I will not give all the detail, but we can provide the detail to the Member: instructional support services is $516,000 and $361,000; aboriginal languages, $69,000 and $103,000; early childhood services, $357,000; education, operations and development, $312,000; schools, which is minor capital, fees and payments, first degree for NWT teachers, for example, is approximately $535,000; culture and heritage, approximately $650,000; language services, $758,000; library services, $269,000; and distance learning is approximately $1,752,000. I am mentally adding here as I go, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Page 9-17, Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one question on this page. Can we get a breakdown of other expenses of $5.6 million please?
-- Interjection
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you, Mr. Dent. We are on 9-17, education and culture, operations expense, total operations expense, $121,722,000.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Page 9-18, education and culture, program delivery. Page 9-19, education and culture, grants and contributions. Mr. Braden.
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Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 9-18, I am wondering if the Minister could give an explanation of a couple of lines there. Under the program heading, there is a line indicating aboriginal languages for about $5.7 million. A little bit further down it reads culture, heritage and languages, about $2.3 million. Could the Minister explain the duplication? Why do we have two lines, both of them containing languages? What is the difference there? Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The $5.7 million is for schools. That is the presentation of language services in the schools for language instructors, specialists and so forth. The culture, heritage and language I believe is the program that funds the language communities and the French language funding as well. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
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Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you. I appreciate the explanation. Could I get a bit of further breakdown on the line, culture, heritage and languages, $2,340,000? What is the breakdown there of the amounts going to the culture and heritage side of things, which is identified as a separate program and to languages? How much money is going into each side? Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will provide the contributions to the various areas: NWT Arts Council, $140,000. Those are grants made to individuals and small organizations for arts and culture. Then we have the registered heritage centre's core funding, operations contributions, $186,000. There is $58,000 to the Norman Wells Heritage Centre and $128,000 to the Fort Smith Museum. Cultural organizations, contributions, $259,000, and that is to the Dene Cultural Institute, Gwich'in Social Cultural Institute and so forth, the Inuvialuit Cultural Centre, the Metis Cultural Centre and the Northern Arts and Cultural Centre. Support for northern performers, for instance folk festivals and that, we provide an amount there. That is a total of $36,000 Mr. Chairman. Cultural project contributions $66,000, which is divided between the three regions of Fort Smith, Inuvik and North Slave. Then the Francophone Community Cultural Development programs, $145,000.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
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Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Doing some quick adding, I get about $800,000, roughly for culture and heritage and the balance, we are looking at about $1.5 million in language services. Is that about the separation, Mr. Chairman?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Yes, Mr. Chairman, that includes language acquisition and maintenance of contributions.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
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Bill Braden Great Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On that same line, Mr. Chairman, we look at this current fiscal year, we are looking at about $1.4 million in the proposed budget. We are jumping to $2.3 million. I am wondering if the Minister could provide an explanation of where is that approximately $900,000 in new allocations going? Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is an investment in language acquisition revitalization. It is part of the Language Strategy $919,000 in total, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Braden.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Page 9-19, education and culture. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as Chair of the Special Committee on the Review of the Official Languages Act I have been fortunate enough, along with my colleagues, to have travelled to different communities to talk to different people about languages. Language is extremely important and very high on the radar screen of the people of the Northwest Territories.
I do have some good news, Mr. Chairman. I have been in the schools where I have witnessed students able to read and write in their languages. Language seems to be coming back up and it is still a problematic area. We are still losing languages at 1 percent a year. I would like to ask the Minister if he would consider targeted funding.
Mr. Chairman, this is without taking away the existing funds that are going to the schools and/or the regions, language communities. The Gwich'in and the Inuvialuit language, for example, are very close to extinction. I think they need more help financially. Would the Minister consider targeted funding in areas where there is a danger? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we fund the language communities in the Northwest Territories directly with substantial funding so they can look at how to strategize, the most effective way to handle the payment and usage of that funding. What is, of course, in consideration by us is the Special Committee on Languages. We want to ensure that once the language report is issued by that committee, we can take into consideration how to approach language development from here.
We are proposing $919,000, Mr. Chairman, to address certain specific areas but I think it is important for us to ensure that we take into consideration that extensive work is being done by the special committee. I think we would count on the special committee coming forward with some recommendations that would play well into the whole program because they are developing the expertise in this area. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is fine. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister about the $81,756,000 that is budgeted for the schools. How are our schools funded, Mr. Chairman? Are they block-funded? Is it formula based? What is the formula based on? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Devitt to respond to that question.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Devitt.
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Devitt
Mr. Chairman, the schools are funded largely on a formula. It is primarily enrolment driven and block-funded. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you have a school, again it is based on population. Again, we are assuming the needs are going to be less if the number of people involved is less. However, a school is a school. You still have to pay your water bills. You have to pay your fuel bills, car bills, et cetera. In that sense, why would you rely so heavily on enrolment? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those items are taken into consideration when funding. We take into consideration administrative costs and so forth when funding districts. Our funding goes to the district, and in turn the DEAs receive their money for the schools. Mr. Devitt can explain this a little more in depth, but as I said, we do take all those costs into consideration in funding community schools.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Devitt.
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Devitt
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister is correct that we do recognize both the base needs of the programs and the higher need of small schools, particularly small high schools in our formula. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those base needs that he referred to, are they based on the cost of living of the community?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Mr. Devitt.
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Devitt
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The formula takes into account a number of factors, including the cost of living and also the differences in economies of scale based on the size of the school. I should also mention the formula in a number of areas takes into account program needs. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in my travels as MLA and as chair of the Special Committee reviewing the Official Languages Act, one of the biggest complaints I receive is that funding allocated to schools for language teaching always gets used up in other areas of responsibility because the schools are continually running out of funds to deliver their programs. They are dipping into what should be going for language teaching and putting the funding into other areas of the school. The teaching of language is not legislated and it is not a major requirement, but for those courses that are legislated and have to have it, there does not seem to be enough money and schools are taking it from other pots of money.
Can the Minister tell me if he feels that the funding provided to schools is sufficient, and if it is sufficient, why are they dipping into other financial resources to top off what they are getting? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding that is provided is not only directly for the school, but also some of the funding goes to the development of curriculum like the Dene Kede, Inuuqatigiit and programs like that, and development of resources for the schools. Again, the special committee is doing extensive work and we look forward to the sort of areas that they can make recommendations to us on that would help us address the issues. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I will get back to that after my next statement. Mr. Chairman, in my riding I have a big problem with teachers resigning mid-stream. It is not regular that we see teachers staying over for the following year, if they complete a year at all. One of the things they attribute the resignations to is the lack of discipline by the students in the schools. I know there is a responsibility on the side of the parents here, but the department should be able to do something to assist the educators in the schools when they have problem areas. What is the policy of the Department of Education when it comes to disciplining the students in the schools? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of programs that we have been working on to deal with the whole issue of stability in our school system. One of the areas that we looked at was to see how teachers were introduced into the school and into the community. We developed the Teacher Induction Program, which provides an opportunity for a new teacher to the community, or a new teacher to teaching, to have some support provided and an introduction properly to the school, to the community and to the teaching profession, which will help stabilize. Across the country, Mr. Chairman, experience indicates that there is a 10 to 20 percent turnover within the first couple of years in teachers. That has been an issue.
The other item that we have been concerned about has been in the area of behaviour within the classrooms. We have developed an approach to look at other jurisdictions, and an Effective Behavioural Support Program has been introduced into our system. Many of our DECs are starting to adopt that. That is to deal with discipline problems and approaches in the classroom.
The other item is school support, community support and parental support, which I think Mr. Nitah has referenced. When we did our student needs survey, the issue of parental support was one of the areas identified. Students need community parental support. Again, through our Early Childhood Development Program, we are starting to address that and looking for resources and methodologies by which we can introduce that into communities, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Page 9-19. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am glad the department is doing some good work in the area of early childhood development responsibility. I think that will go a long way in addressing a lot of the concerns I am raising in terms of discipline problems, graduation problems and the advanced education, et cetera. However, we still have a problem to do with disciplinary problems with students. There are threats that I know of. There have been criminal charges laid where teachers are threatened. It is not acceptable.
I know there is a policy of not punishing the children physically in the schools. I am not entirely in agreement with that policy because people in the developmental stage do need direction, and sometimes corrective action is required. However, Mr. Chairman, I would like to know, what is the department doing to deal with the discipline problem that we see in our schools today that is contributing to disturbance in classes and disturbing other students? It is a major problem. I would like to know if the Minister knows if FAS or FAE plays a role there? We are starting to get the picture now. It is starting to become a major problem. It is taking up to 40 percent of some of the classes. Is there a link here, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, as I mentioned on the Effective Behavioural Support Program, we have and are continuing with our process to train teachers on how to deal with classroom disruptions and classroom problems and additionally, to provide the resources for teachers in that area. Extensive work is gearing up in that whole area, Mr. Chairman, to ensure that our classrooms become better controlled by teachers.
The funding of student support we are increasing from what we started our term here in this House with, which was an 8 percent level of funding for student support. This year with this budget, we are going to 15 percent, so it has almost doubled in terms of providing support in the classroom to help deal with individuals who need help.
The best way I can approach the Effective Behavioural Support Program is through the Positive Reinforcement Program. Social behaviour that is not acceptable is discouraged. Students learn from each other that way and there has been proven success with this particular program, Mr. Chairman.
As I said, in the classroom itself, we are providing a lot more support for students who may have disabilities or challenges. It may be FAS or FAE and so forth. Additionally, on parental support, we are looking more and more to methodologies to involve parents and ensure that students get the support at home.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I look forward to seeing the results of the new plan, the department's plan to implement and deal with some of the issues I raised.
I am somewhat concerned with one area of response the Minister provided to us. When we reference FAS/FAE, I do not like the answer that maybe it is because of this. Identifying the problem is the first step to fixing the problem. FAS/FAE is a major problem. If it is going to affect other students who do not suffer from those symptoms, then we should do something about that interruption and how it affects other students. Is there a method of identifying students with FAS/FAE today? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are working with Health and Social Services on this whole matter of FAS/FAE. Through the Early Childhood Development Program, we have developed some plans to look at testing and so forth. The Nipissing tool is being used by Health and Social Services in that end.
From our own side, Mr. Chairman, teachers cannot diagnose because it is a medical diagnosis that needs to take place. What the process that is used is, if there is an indication that we need to do testing, then the teacher or school will contact the parents and permission needs to be sought to do testing in this whole area. We have a process to follow in the event that someone should be diagnosed. Thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think that is a great idea. I think we should do more testing of our students in our schools in the Northwest Territories, recognizing that FAS/FAE is a major problem. I think we have to give all the resources we can to our teachers so they can do their jobs effectively. If they do not know the students have FAS/FAE, they cannot really explain why they react the way they do in schools.
Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to get back to my earlier question about funding for schools and if it was enough funding, in the opinion of the Minister. I think he is confused in my analogy that I used in how schools are taking money from aboriginal languages to supplement other programs they are delivering. I was not referring to aboriginal languages. I was referring to the shortage of funding. It seems there is a shortage of funding and we have to dip into pots of money to deliver funding in other areas.
I ask again, is the funding that we are providing for our schools in the Northwest Territories sufficient? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is always a possibility for us to identify areas that could use more funding. There is no question about that. The concern, of course, is the allocation of the resources that we have. It does boil down to that, Mr. Chairman, of saying that we have enough resources, and what resources do we have that we can put into this. The allocation is a very important element. Thank you.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I guess, as is always the case here, you have a piece of pie and you have to decide how many pieces you are going to cut up. I would argue, as I said in the House, that education is the silver bullet to many of the problems that we face in the Territories. I think it is incumbent on this government that we address our social ills at the beginning of life and our education process.
I would like to encourage the Minister to review funding levels for schools on a regular basis, if his department is not doing it already. Actually, I will ask that question, Mr. Chairman. How often does the department review funding allocations to schools in the Territories? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we work in partnerships with our DECs and DEAs and we want to ensure that the funding process is correct and that we get feedback from the school systems. The DECs are made up of district education authorities, so it is almost a ground up system, Mr. Chairman.
We have a school planning and resource committee that addresses this issue on a consistent basis, Mr. Chairman. That committee is made up of representatives from the school districts and includes Health and Social Services interestingly enough as well. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Nitah.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request some information from the department, specifically dealing with my communities of Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e. How much money are those schools getting in block funding and other additional financial resources that are going in there for programs and services?
I would like to also know, Mr. Chairman, a breakdown of financial resources from the department going to the actual education part of the responsibility and how much of that budget is going to administration costs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have to get the information for the Member. I do not have that here at the moment, Mr. Chairman, if that is okay with the Member.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. We are on education and culture, page 9-19, grants and contributions, grants, $52,000.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Page 9-20, education and culture, grants and contributions, $106,983,000.
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Page 9-21, education and culture, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $107,035,000. Ms. Lee.
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask a few questions to the Minister under this section. It is in regard to PTR versus class size. Mr. Chairman, I think that we have heard a lot of back and forth about the difference between class size and PTR. I acknowledge that this government has gone a long way in funding extra money for our schools. The bottom line that I hear from the parents and what I see when I go to the local schools, and I have attended PAG meetings and so on, the efforts we are making here and the extra money we are approving is not showing at the local level.
I have correspondence that the Minister has sent to the PAG groups in the city, explaining the fine details between PTR and class size. However, I really think we have to do something about this situation where the extra money we are putting in does not seem to show in classes. Our classes continue to be way too big. For example, at Range Lake North School, there are too many kids in the classes. They are sitting wall to wall. They have to organize an escape plan in some classes to make sure it is not unsafe.
Other than the routine answer about the difference between class size and PTR, what can we do? What can we do other than saying it is up to the local boards? Is there anything we can do?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our indications have been that class sizes throughout the Territories have decreased by 5 percent from
What perhaps is not taken into account and considered here when we deal with PTR is the funding we put into special needs. We are adding more people into the classroom. Class size is a problem. If there is one teacher in the classroom, it is a problem, but if there are three individuals in that classroom, it is not as big a problem. That is not taken into account. The classroom space some people might find a problem, but I think we do live and we try to live by the standards that are set, Mr. Chairman.
I think Ms. Lee has been very on top of this situation for her jurisdiction.
The school board has a role to play here as well, Mr. Chairman, because I cannot enter into every school to solve individual school problems. I am sure that can be appreciated. The school board itself has to play a role in this whole thing.
As I said, the fact that we are now increasing the student support to 15 percent, it will add 3 percent more money this year into support within the classroom itself and support services for that.
Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Lee.
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is obvious that it is not good enough for us to speak about the increases in funding that we have been able to give. While it is good, obviously it is not good enough. Maybe the situation was so bad that the improvement we have made has not caught up to the standard we would like to see in our schools.
Let me ask a question, and I have asked this question before in the House. In the pamphlet the department has put out to explain, called Understanding the Pupil-Teacher Ratio, it says in the definition of pupil-teacher ratio that aboriginal language, cultural specialists, teaching assistants and school community counsellors are not counted as part of the PTR.
Maybe we have to look at what is counted and what is not. We use PTR, which I understand is a formula used in all schools in Canada, but I do not think there is any real rhyme or reason as to why. Why I did not include it so the boards are forced to fund these positions, but they are not funded under PTR. However, they still need teaching assistants, heaven knows. We all know every school needs more teaching assistants.
I do not think the problem is about having big class sizes but having more than one teacher.
What I see in Range Lake North School, and I know it is common in other schools in Yellowknife and throughout the Territories, is that there are a lot of combined classes, grades 4 to 5, 2 to 3. I am sure in communities, you have a wider range of grades that have been combined. I do not think anybody is experiencing a problem of having one teacher and two assistants or anything like that. We are still experiencing too many kids for a teacher.
If the additional funding that we are giving is not accomplishing the result then maybe we should look at what positions are necessary that we are not funding now that we should be funding. Is that something the department has ever considered? Is that something we can look at? Is that something the Social Programs Committee could look at?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Dr. Foley.
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Dr. Foley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand the honourable Member's concern and question. One of the points is if you have two or three educational persons in a classroom, that is obviously going to bring up the count of students because the money that is given to the school is decided by the school and it is used in this way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Ms. Lee.
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have heard that. I have heard that the territorial Assembly and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment have been giving more money than ever before, and the way the money is spent is up to the school boards. However, we are funding with a formula that is not working.
It is really irrelevant to me who is responsible for how that money is spent. What is relevant to us, and we have to all be responsible, including the Minister, deputy minister, all of the staff of the government department and everyone in the local boards, what is important is what is going on in the classroom.
I could go and say it is up to the school board but the bottom line is it is the kids. There are just too many kids in the classrooms. Obviously, this PTR ratio is not working.
Regardless of what they are doing in the rest of the country, regardless of what this PTR was meant to be and how it always has been, can we not revisit this and say okay, we need cultural specialists, we need aboriginal language specialists, we certainly need teaching assistants. We need a lot more than we have now and their position is being funded by teachers' money, so why can we not fund these separately?
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The Chair Leon Lafferty
Thank you. Minister Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to respect the people who are the experts in this whole area. We have a school program and resource committee. It is made up of educators. It is made up of representatives from all the DEAs. Additionally, we have a process of input from the teachers along the way.
The Territorial Teachers' Association was very concerned with how to address this issue. They are the ones that made the recommendation to us on how to address the issue of more support in the classrooms. We followed that, Mr. Chairman.
We have brought down the PTR, which is very measurable, so it has to have an affect in the classroom, Mr. Chairman. We are now almost investing an extra $12 million per year over when we started. That is in a period of two-and-a-half years. It has to have an affect, Mr. Chairman. It is obvious. Statistically, we are showing it.
Is that solving a particular problem in a particular school? There is no doubt there have been improvements in that school as well. When we consider the PTR is an overall ratio and it takes in the classroom teachers, support teachers, vice principals and principals, what we have to remember in addition to that is that we have other people in that classroom, many other people. There are specialists, language specialists, or classroom assistants. They are not counted in the PTR. When we consider, and if we do a comparison between our jurisdiction and other jurisdictions, I know that nationally, we are coming down to the national rate. We are still above some but we are coming down. We need to continue that effort.
The question Ms. Lee has is can we take the money that we are putting into the specialist area, the classroom assistants, the language specialists and so forth, I think the thrust has been to do it on both levels, both on the PTR and the student support area. The next question in this whole thing is can we look at class sizes? We do because we work in partnership, from the ground up, with our jurisdictions to provide advice in that whole area and support. Thank you.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Page 9-19, education and culture, grants and contributions. Ms. Lee.
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I realize the Minister has to get the advice from the experts in program services, but what about the experts in the parents' advisory group? What about the parents who come and talk to us all the time about how the number of students per teacher is not diminishing, in spite of the fact that we keep repeating to them that we have been approving extra money.
I know for a fact the Minister just received a letter recently from the N.J. MacPherson School Parents Advisory Group. The response the Minister gave was copied to every parents advisory group. He reiterated the formula.
My point is that, I do not want to be rude about it, but I really do not care how we compare to the national average or what the experts in the department are saying. I really do not think that matters. I do not really care that it is up to the local boards to do it. I really think that we are responsible for how our money is being spent and how the money we are giving is translated in the classroom.
I am sure the Minister has statistics that show the classroom has decreased, but I tell you, I was at a parents advisory group meeting about three weeks ago and my information is that the problem is as bad and as serious as ever. I really believe that unless we open up this PTR and revisit it and include some of the positions that we are not funding, such as a librarian position. How could you not fund that? How could you have a school without a librarian?
Let me just repeat that. I do not think there should be a school without a librarian. I think that should be a necessary, funded position. School boards have to make a choice about whether they should have a physical education specialist position. Those are important.
I know the Minister has done a lot to give extra money, but can we not stop saying that we are doing the best we can and it is up to the school boards? The bottom line is every single school in Yellowknife is overcrowded -- every school.
I do not know. I have to be able to give the parents a better answer than say it is not our responsibility, it is the school boards'. The school boards will say they are doing the best with the money they have. I have no reason not to believe that, but how does that answer about what the reality is in the school classroom? I think that is the most important issue here.
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
You know, I hear from my colleagues in the House that was a really good question, except the Minister did not hear it and I do not know what I said, so...
-- Laughter
I am sure it was really good, but I cannot exactly repeat it. I do not know. Maybe the Minister could read the Hansard and get back to me.
I have another question. Mr. Chairman, I also asked a question in the House about student support funding. We are also aware that we have been able to increase funding in that area as well, which is a good thing, due to the low enrolment. That is another thing. We have had less students going into the school system but we still have crowded classrooms. Somebody should go and look into this. The experts in education should take a look at what is going on. We give more money and there is less enrolment but class sizes are as big as ever.
It is just like the population in the NWT. We see more people, but where are they? It is reversed.
Anyway, this student support funding, I asked the Minister to give me information about what criteria is used in the way the school boards spend student support money. I have been given a sheet that tells the details of expenditures that the school board has to file with the department. It is only a page long. There are about 15 columns. I cannot believe the school boards get millions of dollars from the department on student support services and have to fill out a form that is less than what you would have to fill out to get a $3,000 loan.
What I am trying to get at is we all know about the special educational needs in our school systems. Could we not expect more from the department in terms of accountability of how the money is being spent, and if it is reaching the objective that we are trying to get to, which is to provide help that is needed for those students with special needs. I do not know if the Minister is aware of this, but it is just a little form that says education body, details of expenditures.
Let me ask a direct question. What does the department do to measure whether or not the extra money that you are giving to the school boards for student support services to measure how that is spent in terms of how it benefits the kids? What is used there?
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have an accountability framework that we work with. As well, there is an annual accounting report back to the department for each district to account for the funding, what was spent in what categories, and there are a number of categories. If the Member is interested, we can certainly provide some details on that. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Sandy Lee Range Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister is correct in saying there are a number of items that the department asks the school boards, such as salaries. These are the things the department asks for: salaries, employee benefits, services purchased, contracts, including professional technical services, postage, communication, utilities, travel, student travel, advertising, printing, publishing, maintenance, repair, rentals, leases, other contracted services, materials, supplies, freight, and contributions in transfers. That is an accounting book. That is I give you $100 dollars and how are you spending the $100?
I think the questions the parents with kids with special needs want to know are questions like, is there a policy in place to ensure a trained aid is matched with a child's special needs? Is there a database listing training courses and experiences aids and teachers have? Is there any long-term planning associated with a child expected to be enrolled in the district for several years? Is there a database that says how many kids in our system, in your school board, have been assessed to be in need of special needs? What is the level of their needs? How many special-ed assistants do you need to meet those needs? How much money do you have? If you need a hundred positions, do you have money for 80 positions? Are you meeting the top 80 students whose needs...you know, I really do not care how much money they spend on -- I guess I should care, but you know, this is an accounting ledger. What about the quality? I really would like to see this as notice to the department that if we really are, and I know we are concerned. We hear it all the time about increasing the number of kids in our school system that need special attention. If we really are going to make a difference we have to know what our problems are. The accountability has to be about what difference we are making, not about in what column this ledger goes.
I expect that I will not get an answer to this today, but I hope that the next time we meet, maybe sooner than that, we will get better answers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Committee Motion 16-14(5): Recommendation To Track Student Debt Load (carried)
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Two years ago, we did a student needs support assessment. We covered every school in the Territories, kindergarten to grade 9, and a collective sampling of 10 to 12 students, to look at what the needs were in the various schools. From that, we developed a report, Mr. Chairman, and extensive work was done on it to identify the kind of support that was needed. We are following the investment with that information.
We know that by putting out money into, for example, increasing student...pardon me, it is getting late here, Mr. Chairman. Support for teachers in the classroom was one area. Training was the other area and home support was another area, staff development...those were all areas that were very important in the student needs support area. Counselling and healing was another. Student counsellors, school and community counsellors...there has been extensive work done on the whole area of what support is needed in the classroom.
I think the student needs support survey did a fairly good job on that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. We are on page 9-21, contributions, $106,983,000. Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when the Standing Committee on Social Programs was reviewing the draft mains with the Minister and the department, we had a significant amount of discussion with the Minister about the problems that day care operators were having with running their operations in the North. It is not just a situation where they are running into fiscal problems because the subsidies are not enough. It is a problem because they are often run by volunteers who sometimes do not have specialized training. We thought that it would be probably beneficial if the operators could gain access to better supports.
I would like to note that earlier this session, I asked the Minister if he would commit to providing a board training package. I have received a letter from him confirming that by this fall, ECE and MACA will have a board training and support program that will be available for board members to call on to help them develop, to help them with planning their financial resources and so on.
One of the areas that we also saw as being important was not just in terms of support to board members, but support that the board members or the operators could call on a regular basis when they ran into problems. This means better resources at the regional centres, at headquarters, so the people in the centres could pick up the phone, call and get some assistance when they wanted some advice, or they could call and they could have somebody come out and help them when they had problems.
Therefore, the committee would like to present a motion. Mr. Chairman,
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
I MOVE that this committee recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment assist local day care operators in dealing with their administrative burden and by offering quality support and advice to volunteer boards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Dent. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Nitah.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to know what Mr. Dent meant by local, to assist local day cares. Are we talking local at the community level or just Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had hoped that Members would not think that a standing committee of this Assembly would bring forward recommendations aimed at one community. This is clearly something we are intending to ensure there is support for day care operators in all localities.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Page 9-21, contributions, $106,983,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Sorry, I have to go back to page 9-21, total grants and contributions, $107,035,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
The Chair Paul Delorey
Page 9-24, information item, detail of funding allocated to education authorities.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I should have asked this question some time before as we go through the page-by-page, but we are talking about providing funds to education authorities. I asked a question in the House about the number of students who go through our education system and quit once they reach grade 10 because of the failure of the department to adequately teach them so that they are prepared for grade 10 when they get there. The Minister's response he gave this afternoon was totally insufficient.
They do not track that kind of information, and because of the number of students who are hitting that wall at grade 10, I think the department should start tracking that so we can get an exact determination of how many students are falling through the cracks in this area.
I would like to recommend to the department that they start doing that. I would do it in a committee motion but, Mr. Chairman, I do not think we have the time right now. I will use the honour system and I hope the Minister will honour this request. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are interested in doing as much tracking as we possibly can to ensure that we see where our success is and where our bottlenecks are, where our hurtles are. Yes, I will take that with serious consideration, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Page 9-24, detail of funding allocated to education authorities, information item.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
The Chair Paul Delorey
Page 9-29, detail of work performed on behalf of others, total department, $9,516,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the area of culture, the responsibility of the department, I see the other recoveries of the museum store, brings to mind a need in communities. We do not have any museums and I do not think we will ever have museums because of the population base, but we should have cultural centres in each of our communities for historical purposes to teach our young children, and for tourism purposes, Mr. Chairman.
What is the department doing to ensure there are cultural centres or culturally relevant programs and services delivered at the community level? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
The Chair Paul Delorey
Mr. Nitah, I will allow the Minister to comment on that but it is probably outside of this area. Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I mentioned earlier our whole area of concentration on the arts policy. We want to do the same thing with the heritage policy, Mr. Chairman. We need to work with our federal counterparts in that whole area to see what we can develop in terms of possibilities for resources.
I think it is an important area, I do not disagree with Mr. Nitah. If we were able to start developing in communities the collections or whatever it may be, it could be a tourism attraction, et cetera. We are not there yet by any means. As I say, our whole arts and heritage area is where I am doing some work on, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 646
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that it is very important and speaks to cultural awareness, languages, et cetera. They say if we do not know where we came from, we probably do not know where we are going to go. I would like to ask the Minister, is there any budget associated for that kind of work? Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have various funding programs for arts and cultural programs. There is community museum funding, but there is other funding as well, cultural projects funding. We do not have large budgets in this whole area of the culture area, Mr. Chairman, and that is what I am saying. I want to work on this whole area. It needs some concentration. Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Page 9-7, department summary, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expense, total operations expense, $195,903,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
We will go to capital acquisitions. Education, Culture and Employment, cap-14, advanced education and careers, total advanced education and careers, $8,681,000. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know what the Aurora College Northern United Place expenditures for $1 million is going to do. Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Devitt
Mr. Chairman, we still have to finalize the plans for the budget but we are looking at renovations to about three floors of the apartments we lease at Northern United Place. Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, can the Minister tell me what the $10,000 in 2002-2003 for the Deninoo School is for?
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Cap-14, cap-15, Fort Resolution.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
We have not come to cap-15 yet. We are still on cap-14. Cap-14, advanced education and careers, total advanced education and careers, $8,681,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
Cap-15, education and culture, total education and culture, $5,825,000. Mr. Nitah.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, can the Minister tell me what the $10,000 in 2002-2003 for the Deninoo School is for?
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is warranty work on the school, which is just being completed, Mr. Chairman. The school is finished with its current budget and the $10,000 is to complete the work in the 2002-2003 year.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I beg to differ. I do not think the school is done yet. We had taken the grounds the school is on. There is still some landscaping that needs to be done. I believe the community has requested a track and field and soccer field, as well as some work to be done on the grounds in front of the school. I think it is consistent with the document, Towards a Better Tomorrow, and healthier choices. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Nitah had spoken to me about this matter. It is something I will have to look into to see how we can handle it. Thank you.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Education and culture, total education and culture, $5,825,000.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
Does the committee agree that that concludes the Department of Education, Culture and Employment?
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Minister and your witnesses for appearing. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
Charles Dent Frame Lake
Mr. Chairman, I do not know what the wish of the committee is, but I am going to move that we report progress.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Chair Paul Delorey
A motion to report progress is on the floor. It is not debatable. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried. The Chair will rise and report progress.
Committee Motion 17-14(5): Recommendation To Offer Support To Local Day Care Operators (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 647
The Speaker Tony Whitford
The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 647
Paul Delorey Hay River North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 2 and would like to report progress with two motions being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 648
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Do we have a seconder for the motion? The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley, seconds the motion. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Handley.
Bill 9: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2001-2002
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 648
Joe Handley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, that Bill 9, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2001-2002 be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 9: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2001-2002
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 648
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Handley. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 9 has had third reading.
-- Applause
Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 648
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, meetings tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. of Accountability and Oversight; at 10:30 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Social Programs; and at 11:30 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development.
- Bill 2, Appropriation Act, 2002-2003
- Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act
- Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act
- Committee Report 1-14(5), Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight Report on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates
- Committee Report 2-14(5), Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development Report on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates
- Committee Report 3-14(5), Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 2002-2003 Main Estimates
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 648
The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 1:30 p.m.
-- ADJOURNMENT
The House adjourned at 8:23 p.m.
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