This is page numbers 151 - 208 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

Committee Motion 23-15(5): To Delete $222,000 From Transportation's Airports Activity In Bill 2, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 194

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we've been told on a number of occasions, do it from within in-house. We get told to go out to the private sector. So we try to accommodate as much as we can on both sides of the scale. I just believe no matter how much homework we do, it's not going to be enough for the Member.

The fact is, we do have people who monitor our assets, our lease arrangements. But the fact is also, we weren't counting on one of our leased facilities that houses four departments to be shut down because of structural reasons, and spread the rest of the departments over a number of spaces. You can talk to the staff within the community of where they're housed and they would tell you how unhappy they are in the places they were put. So we've had to, on occasion, go to older facilities and out to the private sector and they would renovate an older spot, and that's what we would have to take because that's what's available. Now we're in a position where we have to come up with new space. Whether it's lease-to-own leased or if it does get approved for capital program, that's something we now have to come up with a functional plan, a program that we could actually come up with some estimates and then go out to the private sector for an RFP or tender. Before we do that, we also would have to have that discussion around this table to see if we would use a leased program instead of the typical capital program that we enter into. So there's a fair bit of work that needs to be done.

The Department of Public Works and Services has four people in-house that right now deal with the functional program and review of all the projects that the client departments bring to us, and there's a four-month backlog on that. So if we want to do it in-house, then we would have to look at what other programs we bump to accommodate this. Because we don't have adequate office space, it would take priority over some other projects out there. That's why it's coming forward in this basis for additional funds. Thank you.

Committee Motion 23-15(5): To Delete $222,000 From Transportation's Airports Activity In Bill 2, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 194

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Page 24, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $1.085 million. Mr. Ramsay.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 6th, 2006

Page 194

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that $320,000 be deleted from the Department of Public Works and Services asset management activity in Supplementary Appropriation, No. 1, 2006-2007.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 194

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Motion on the floor. Motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Braden, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Braden.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 194

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Mr. Chairman, with reluctance I'm going to vote for the motion to delete. The amount of information that the Minister's providing is not enough to convince me that for $320,000 we're getting value for money. I really have difficulty accepting a request for this amount here. The information given us originally here to provide funding for planning and the functional program, the new consolidated office complex in Inuvik. It doesn't go so far as to say we're getting detailed drawings or architectural design. That's going to be another part. You know, Mr. Chairman, given the kind of descriptions and information that I'm used to from the government here, there's going to be a lot more money spent on planning before a single board is put in place for this complex. I'm

not arguing that it is needed, but as with so many of the other objections that you've heard us raise, it is with the process and the stages and the steps that we're taking to get there, and truly are we receiving value for money. I don't have a full enough sense of what the stages are and where we are going with this to approve this. That is my objection, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Next I have Mr. McLeod.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was originally going to make this motion, but I had to give it some thought here. I mean I know this applies to Inuvik and my problem is not that we don't need an office space in Inuvik, I mean that's something that should have been identified a long time ago and the plan should have gone into the works for that. And $320,000, you know I'm arguing trying to get a couple more bucks for SFA; I'm arguing trying to get a little $1,200 from someone that was travelling on a medical trip to Edmonton, and we toss around $320,000 like nothing and I have a hard time with that, I really do. We need the office space. I don't think it's going to cost $320,000 to hire a consultant. Consulting is a word that seems to be used a lot here. Consult with us before it even comes into here. You know, I would appreciate that. Give me a good business case of why it should be in here.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Now, the thing that I'm having difficulty with, it says Inuvik. That's the only thing.

---Laughter

---Interjection

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Actually, it's not.

---Laughter

But I really have difficulty with it, Mr. Chair; $320,000, and, like somebody said, you have to go with your gut feeling. I hate to admit it, but my gut feeling just is the word Inuvik. I think it's bad planning. Mr. Chair, I really think it's bad planning and I really have a difficult time, especially when we're trying to scrape a few bucks together for some other I think more worthy programs. Too much money, in my opinion, is going into consultants. Maybe I put too much stock into our 4,300 workers within the Government of the Northwest Territories. Maybe I think they can do the job. But I see the amount of consultants that are brought in and outside help for us, hiring extra people for that. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I put too much stock in the people that work for us, thinking they have the in-house resources to do something like this, which I think wouldn't be that hard.

So, Mr. Chair, I didn't state a position. I am going to listen to what the rest of my colleagues say, but gut feeling says Inuvik. Thank you.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have Ms. Lee.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you. Just a few short comments to add to this, Mr. Chairman. I think Mr. McLeod is right when he said that around here we lose the concept of money. We throw around $100,000 here, $200,000 here, $200 million like it's just numbers, you know, and $330,000 is at least $100,000 more than my house is worth. Three hundred twenty thousand would get us at least three teachers, or at least five special education assistants. It would get us at least three Novel housing, according to the Minister of Housing's math. It really is a lot of money. On the basis of what we're hearing, that is not going to get us...I mean we just don't have enough detail. I think I'm voting for the motion as a deferment for the Minister to come back with more information.

I just want to add, as I think it's been repeated by lots of other Members here, something's going on with the way this government studies and hires people for everything. I mean it's about time they trust their own judgments and their own powers and the work of the government workers, you know? I mean I talked about the consulting report of the educational facilities review, for example. I mean just let me not even get started on that. But I don't know when we just do our work, and you know $330,000 to start planning for a building is just too much. So I'm going to vote for the motion just to defer and to get more information as to why we need to do this and if we can do any better. Thank you.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

I agree with what Ms. Lee just said. Three hundred twenty thousand dollars is a lot of money. There are other things going to be coming up here later on, too, which have to do with how this government spends capital and how they consult on spending capital. I suggest to you that you could probably in the private sector build most things for the price that you spend just on the soft costs and getting, you know, consulting done. Like I said in the committee the other day, I said I think that this government probably goes to design and everything else when they build an outhouse.

---Laughter

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

An Hon. Member

They do. They do.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

They do. I'm not kidding you. Like the PWS, I'm sorry, but if they're going to build a fire hall in Enterprise and they're going to build exactly the same one in Kakisa, they're going to go back to the architects and get it designed again. That is the truth.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

An Hon. Member

Sad truth.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

An Hon. Member

Reality.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

And $320,000 is a lot of money. I could give you other examples of what you can do things for in the private sector. But like Ms. Lee said, that's more than the house she lives in. You know, I think it's more than the house that most of us live in, and yet we talk about it like it's nothing. Let's just get an opinion. You've got nothing at the end of the day on this consultation. What have you got, a report? You might accept it; you might not accept it. That's a lot of money. How can I stress this to you, Mr. Chairman? Anyway, I can't support the $320,000. Sorry.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 195

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 196

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Page 24, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $765,000.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 196

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 196

The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Technology Service Centre, not previously authorized, $77,000.

Committee Motion 24-15(5): To Delete $320,000 From Pws's Asset Management Activity In Bill 2, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 196

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.