This is page numbers 353 - 390 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was health.

Topics

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. I’d like to acknowledge a former Member who passed away, a former scholar, activist and politician, Robert Williamson. He passed away at the age of 90 on Sunday, February 12, 2012. Mr. Williamson was the first elected Member for a newly formed Keewatin riding, later known as the Central Arctic riding. He was a member of the 5th and 6th Assemblies of the

NWT Council from 1966 to 1970.

Mr. Williamson was born in England, November 2, 1931, and immigrated to Canada in 1952.

He began his long career in the North in the community of Fort Simpson where he started recording Dene folklore. In the 1950s, he lived in Pangnirtung where he learned to speak Inuktitut and founded the first Inuit language journal: “Inuktitut.”

Mr. Williamson taught at the University of Saskatchewan and was chair of the university’s International Committee. In his time in the North he helped establish the Arctic Research and Training Centre in Rankin Inlet and in 1958 founded the Eskimology section at the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. He also worked with the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, Canadian Eskimo Arts Council, the Inuit Circumpolar Conference and the CBC Northern Service. In 1983 he was invested into the Order of Canada.

Mr. Williamson was married to Karla Jessen Williamson. He had two children from his second marriage and four children from his first marriage. Our condolences go out to the Williamson family.

To pay respect to a former Member of the Legislative Assembly, our flags will be flying at half-mast today.

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements.

Minister’s Statement 12-17(2): Traditional Economy
Ministers’ Statements

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am happy today to update my colleagues on the huge increases in pelt prices seen at the first wild fur auction of the year.

However, I would first like to take a moment to recognize the loss of a respected elder, wise teacher and talented trapper, Mr. Aà Harry Pierre Mantla. Even at the age of 71, Aà was one of the most active trappers in the North Slave region and could be regularly counted on for 200 marten pelts a year. We would like to offer our sincere condolences to the Mantla family. His contribution to the fur industry will be missed.

The first wild fur sale of the season was held last month. Fur sold through the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program had notable price increases across the board; cross fox, red fox and beaver pelt prices all more than doubled. The prices were also up for grizzly bear, muskrat, wolf and arctic fox.

The pelts sold through our Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program continue to fetch a higher-than-average price for harvesters in the Northwest Territories. One example is cross fox: a high of $100 for a pelt this year, compared to the overall average of $64.

The arctic fox broke its previous record for top selling price, with a pelt going for the all-time high of $200. Muskrat and beaver were also in high demand at auction. All of the Northwest Territories muskrat pelts shipped to auction were sold, as were 95 percent of beaver pelts.

Total Northwest Territories sales at the auction held in North Bay, Ontario, totalled $124,000; the highest amount at this auction in recent years.

The good news is that we still have three more fur auctions to go this year. The next auction where genuine Mackenzie Valley furs will be sold is at the Fur Harvesters Auction on March 23, 2012, in Seattle, Washington. Last year at this same auction, over $815,000 worth of genuine Mackenzie Valley furs were sold. If recent prices and demand

are any indication, our trappers will again enjoy high sales at future auctions.

Mr. Speaker, 2012 marks the ten-year anniversary of the revitalized Genuine Mackenzie Valley Furs Program. Since its inception, the program has provided Northwest Territories trappers with a comprehensive fur marketing service in addition to a guaranteed fur advance for Northwest Territories trappers while their fur is shipped to sale, a prime fur bonus for those whose furs sell for more than the advance and a grubstake payment of $5 per pelt paid to eligible trappers at the start of each fur-trapping season.

This program is the best in Canada in terms of support provided to trappers. The success of our trappers is of vital importance to the Government of the Northwest Territories. With their success, both their families and communities benefit.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I am pleased to report that since the introduction of the Take a Kid Trapping Program, provided under the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program, the number of youth involved in the trapping industry is also continuing to grow.

Last year, the Take a Kid Trapping and Harvesting program hosted 49 projects in regions throughout the NWT. A total of 2,274 youth participated, an increase of 23 percent over the previous year. This is the most participation we have seen to date, which demonstrates a significant and growing interest in the program. This is a good sign for the future of our fur industry.

A recent project that also took place through this program was the construction of a traditional kayak in Tuktoyaktuk. I want to congratulate the high school students at the Mangilaluk School for their hard work completing the kayak, and a special thanks to Mr. Darrel Nasogaluak, the program instructor. The kayak will be proudly displayed in the Tuktoyaktuk airport for everyone to enjoy.

By actively supporting the harvesting and marketing of wild fur through the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Furs Program, as well as engaging youth in the Take a Kid Trapping Program, the Government of the Northwest Territories is taking action to diversify the economy and provide all communities and regions with opportunities and choices. Thank you.

Minister’s Statement 12-17(2): Traditional Economy
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Colleagues, before we continue on, I’d like to recognize a former Member of the Mackenzie Delta who sat in the 13th , 14th , 15th and 16th Legislative

Assemblies, former Speaker, Minister and MLA, Mr. David Krutko. Welcome to the House, David.

The honourable Minister of Health, Mr. Beaulieu.

Minister’s Statement 13-17(2): Prevention And Promotion
Ministers’ Statements

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, this Assembly has talked about the importance of supporting residents to be healthy, educated and free from poverty. I think most people in our territory will agree.

We need to help our children, families and communities get to a place where they feel good, can meet their own needs and contribute in a positive way to our society.

We’ve talked about the need to use prevention, education and awareness in making this happen. Today I will speak about the approach we want to take through the health and social services system to reach this goal.

Prevention is basically about making positive, healthy choices in the way we live our lives. I often talk about the four pillars of healthy living: eat healthy foods, get exercise, don’t smoke, and drink in moderation. These are all cornerstones of the government’s Healthy Choices Framework, and the Department of Health and Social Services works closely with other departments to promote these positive choices. Recently, Members of this House joined me in the launch of the My Voice, My Choice campaign. It gets NWT youth talking about addictions and alcohol abuse in their communities. If there is one thing that comes across in the stories these kids are telling, it is that they know what the issues are in their communities. They know what the problems are; we all do. They also make the connections between being active, eating right, avoiding alcohol and other drugs, and feeling well.

Over the next few weeks we will roll out other programs to support healthy choices. Drop the Pop will kick off in 40 schools. March is Nutrition Month, and during that time we will work closely with regional authorities and the Northern Nutrition Association to promote healthy eating through local activities such as cooking programs and grocery store tours. And we are working on a new anti-smoking campaign to encourage adults to be good role models for their children.

These investments are important and we have seen positive results from campaigns like Don’t Be a Butthead. Starting tomorrow, Stanton Hospital, including its grounds, will be a non-smoking zone. But real change has to start at the community level. Communities are essential in making prevention work. I have been travelling around the territory since I became Minister of Health and Social Services, and I have heard that we need to involve communities in designing and delivering programs that speak to local issues and priorities. Over the coming weeks and months I intend to reach out to communities, to Aboriginal leadership and to other stakeholders and invite them to partner with the department to find effective ways to encourage

healthy choices, approaches based on local needs and priorities.

Prevention and health promotion activities are not only the right thing to do, they are essential if we want to improve the health status of our population and keep our system sustainable. I look forward to keeping you all up to date as our work in this area progresses. Thank you.

Minister’s Statement 13-17(2): Prevention And Promotion
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Minister’s Statement 14-17(2): Joint Canada-Alberta Implementation Plan For Oil Sands Monitoring
Ministers’ Statements

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people of the Northwest Territories have a stake in the ongoing development of the oil sands. Protecting our land and water from potential downstream impacts of development in Alberta is critical.

The Joint Canada-Alberta Implementation Plan for Oil Sands Monitoring is a solid first step in addressing the concerns raised by Aboriginal peoples, scientists and concerned residents, both upstream and downstream, of impacts of the oil sands development on our waters.

This new oil sands monitoring plan is based on sound science and incorporates world-class tools to monitor and assess air quality, water quality and quantity, aquatic ecosystem health, wildlife toxicology, terrestrial biodiversity and habitat disturbance.

The new plan outlines a transparent and accountable monitoring system and adaptive management process, which could address the concerns of Northerners depending on how Canada and Alberta implement it.

While the implementation plan does not clearly identify governance mechanisms, I am encouraged by comments last week by Alberta Premier Alison Redford recognizing the need for an independent oversight committee or monitoring agency.

Collaboration with our government and residents of the Northwest Territories is definitely required if the monitoring plan is to be successful. We will continue to press both Canada and Alberta to include our government in the implementation of monitoring programs, and encourage the participation and engagement of Aboriginal people in it as well. We will be requesting representation on the independent oversight committee for our government and Aboriginal groups.

During the next few weeks I will be seeking further clarification on key aspects of the joint

implementation plan and confirming our continued involvement through all phases of the new oil sands monitoring program. Thank you.

Minister’s Statement 14-17(2): Joint Canada-Alberta Implementation Plan For Oil Sands Monitoring
Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Condolences On The Passing Of Bishop John Sperry
Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today we in the North mourn the loss of a long-time friend. Bishop John R. Sperry passed away in Hay River on Saturday, February 11th , at the age of 87.

Bishop Sperry, known to his friends as Jack, was born in eastern England in 1924. He joined the British Royal Navy in 1943 and served until 1946 on the destroyers and escorts, doing convoy duty.

After completing his tour of duty, he immigrated to Canada in 1950, serving parishes in Kugluktuk, then known as Coppermine, and Fort Smith. He served as the diocese bishop of the Arctic for the Anglican Church from 1973 to 1990 and is the author of “Igloo Dwellers Were My Church,” a memoir of his time in the North.

Bishop Sperry worked throughout the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and northern Quebec. He travelled in the North, visiting communities along the way, telling his stories of the way things used to be, passing on his knowledge and experience wherever he went. He lived his life as a true Northerner, often travelling by dogsled.

He had an amazing respect for the culture of the Inuit people. He learned several northern languages and translated the Bible, prayer books and hymns into the Inuktitut dialect, which was instrumental in teaching the Anglican faith to the people of the Western Arctic.

After retirement Bishop Sperry worked with health and volunteer organizations, and was instrumental in supporting fellow veterans in the Northwest Territories. He was chaplain of the Rangers division of the Joint Task Force North. He regularly visited patients at Stanton Territorial Hospital as well as veterans and elders living at home or in long-term care facilities in Yellowknife.

In July 2002 Bishop Sperry was named Companion to the Order of Canada, recognizing his outstanding lifetime achievement and service to the North.

Bishop Sperry passed away peacefully with his loving family close by: his son John Sperry, his daughter Angela Friesen, and their families in Hay River, where he lived for the last several years. Bishop Sperry will be missed for his spiritual leadership, his stories, his sense of humour, and

his knowledge and wisdom, but mostly and especially for the love he shared with so many people along the path that he took while spreading the word of God. The many people he taught and helped and the blessings he bestowed on all those he met will long be remembered.

He was dedicated to the people of Canada’s North for over 50 years. We thank him for this. I extend my sincere condolences to Bishop Sperry’s family and friends today. Our loss is heaven’s gain.

Condolences On The Passing Of Bishop John Sperry
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Campaign Against Bullying And Cyber-Bullying
Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Most recently the Government of Quebec has announced new measures to counter cyber-bullying and bullying in schools, and I have to commend that government and other governments across Canada who have gone down that path.

This made me reflect that not that many weeks ago I had the pleasure of attending a town hall meeting with the YK1 trustees and parents. One of the topics discussed that night was on bullying and I was concerned that although the schools are doing their part to curb this type of behaviour, we as legislators are sitting on the sidelines with our mouths zippered. I ask myself why.

Why as legislators can’t we assist our school systems to provide measures to counter bullying and cyber-bullying? Why hasn’t the GNWT denounced cyber-bullying and violence by providing funds for aggressive campaign ads for television, radio or Internet awareness? Why can’t the GNWT provide a website to identify bullies and strategies for their victims? Why haven’t we acted as stewards to provide the ability for NWT residents to symbolically or publicly declare our concern against bullying? And most of all, why hasn’t the GNWT acted like many of our provincial counterparts and put measures and legislation in place to denounce bullying and cyber-bullying? This will be asked later today of the Minister of Education.

Some may argue that we already have such legislation via our NWT Human Rights Act under the protection against harassment, but I say with conviction that this is not enough. This act does not specifically address or protect the victims of bullying of our children and youth, and it clearly does not go far enough to protect ourselves from the ever evolving cyber-bullying that takes place.

It’s imperative that our message needs to be broad based and our responsibility should not only be to protect our children or youth during the school hours but at all times during their development

period. The message should be loud and clear: This government has a moral and ethical obligation to stop bullying and stop the intimidation, that it has no place in our schools or in our northern society at large. We have the means and the power to draw the line in the sand to bullies everywhere to say no more.

As legislators we can and we must pull together to agree that anti-bullying and cyber-bullying legislation has to be added to our priorities in the coming months, and I ask each and every one of the MLAs here today to step forward and accept this challenge. Together we can change behaviour.

Campaign Against Bullying And Cyber-Bullying
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Poverty Issues Affecting Elders
Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Growing old in the Sahtu is no picnic for our people. When the Minister of Health and I did a tour in the Sahtu region, we heard from many elders and heard from the leaders how hard and difficult it was for our old people to have family members live with them and to support them by cutting wood, hauling water, looking after their house, helping them with their medication.

Last week I heard my colleague Mr. Blake’s account of elders in the Mackenzie Delta who had to leave their families in the communities to live in home care. Over a number of years I have spoken about the support of our elders. What I want to talk about this afternoon is the government’s practice to claw back on income support for families and fuel subsidies, who have families living with these elders.

Many elders need help around the house and the elders need company. In my culture, family helps the older people and families stay together. This is one of the real strengths of our way of life. Coincidentally, it helps us govern too. It meets the objective for healthy, independent people. The problem is this government is not putting its money where its mouth is. Instead it is penalizing elders who have families living with them. An elder may be poor and broke, but if anyone lives in their house and makes a little money, income support will claw back. It’s the same story with the fuel subsidy. If there’s family income, someone has to pay Grannie’s fuel bill.

There are many ways to keep our people down and the clawback is one way. We talk about the Anti-Poverty Strategy in this House, and believe me, we need one. We have too much poverty with our elders. Instead of helping our people, this government clawing back on our elders will just make things worse. It’s time to change the policy. I urge this government to help our elders. Thank you.

Poverty Issues Affecting Elders
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Government Christmas Service Closures
Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Christmas approached a few months ago, I began to see ads in the newspaper advising Northerners about upcoming GNWT office closures, and I was struck by the contradiction in an ad from Education, Culture and Employment which gave notice of a two-week closure of all offices right beside a slogan proclaiming ECE helps you go places. Hopefully, ECE does that, but certainly not for the two weeks at the end of December and the beginning of January each year.

The motto of the strategic plan for the Department of Human Resources is: public service, public focus. I fail to understand how the government can call itself a public service and then remove that service for a protracted period of time. We’ve had Donnie Days since 1996, and although people have become used to the lack of service at Christmastime, it’s a most difficult time for residents who in an emergency need some GNWT help.

It’s time that we, as a government, review this shutdown situation. If we really want to provide the services to our residents as we profess to do, we must evaluate the value of closing such things as service centres, income support offices, student financial assistance offices. Listen to the names: service, support, assistance. We are definitely not providing any of that with our two-week Christmas break shutdowns.

I’ve worked in the retail service industry for almost 20 years and admittedly things slow down over Christmas and New Year’s, but life does not stop. The problems and the emergencies do not stop happening just because it’s Christmas. What are our residents supposed to do when they need help on December 23rd and no GNWT office is open?

Who can they turn to? NWT programs and services are supposed to make life easier for our residents. Two-week-long closures are not a way to provide that help.

It’s time to review the impact of these GNWT Christmas closures. It’s time to consider the importance of service to our residents by the government. It’s time to look at keeping some offices open during the Christmas holidays. We don’t need to fully staff those offices, and I’m not asking for offices to be open on stat holidays, but we should have service-based programs available to our residents at any time of the year.

Current and previous Ministers of HR have often told us that the Department of Human Resources prides itself on its service to its customers, but does

that same pride of service, that same culture of service exist in policy and overall government thinking? At a time when we are celebrating 60 years of public service by our Queen, when we’ve just awarded 11 Northerners the Queen’s Jubilee Medal for public service, it is ironic that our government has to be reminded of their duty to provide service for its residents. Thank you.

Government Christmas Service Closures
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Stroke And Heart Disease In The NWT
Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Tomorrow is Valentine’s Day, when we express our love to special people in our lives. I know most of us have good hearts, so I was a little shocked when I found out that strokes and heart attacks are the second most common cause of death in the Northwest Territories.

Our rate of heart of attacks is a bit lower than Canada’s, but our rate of strokes is about 50 percent higher than the national average. What makes this particularly scary is that effective treatment of strokes depends on very fast medical action. Most of our citizens won’t get that. Some communities have no nurse and even Yellowknife has no 911 emergency service.

There have been advances in heart research, and some of us have raised money for it. Once you have heart disease, there is no easy cure. Treatment includes medication, surgery, and a variety of procedures which can be invasive and expensive.

We should do all we can to prevent heart disease. Smoking, for example, is a major risk factor. In the Northwest Territories we smoke much more than the rest of Canada. Being physically active and healthy prevents heart disease. I was surprised to learn that only about 41 percent of the Northwest Territories population is physically active enough to maintain or improve their health compared to 53 percent of all other Canadians. Being overweight and obese is another risk factor. Again, we are worse off than the rest of Canada. Sixty-three percent of our Northwest Territories residents are overweight or obese and the number is increasing.

Moderate to vigorous physical activity is recommended for people of all ages. At least two and a half hours per week for adults and 60 minutes a day for children is needed. Of course, eating a balanced diet helps too. Even so, some heart conditions are not preventable.

About three years ago Fort Providence lost an 11-year-old girl to an undiagnosed heart condition. In memory of young Shayna, her mother Shauna Clark-Canadien is organizing a fashion show and a silent auction to raise money for the Heart and

Stroke Foundation. It will take place in Fort Providence at the Nahecho Keh Centre on February 25th . Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Stroke And Heart Disease In The NWT
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Addressing Root Causes Of Homelessness In All Communities
Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member’s statement today is going to be in regard to one of the Minister’s statements last week in regard to a strong, very heavy contribution that was made to the City of Yellowknife here. It is in regard to shelters in the communities of the Northwest Territories.

As great as it sounds for Yellowknife to have this shelter brought forth into our territory and help those people that are in need, we also have to look at adjusting the root causes and the issues. As long as this government doesn’t address those issues or those root causes that put our people into these shelters or make people go to these shelters, we are going to continue to have this problem. We are going to have to continue more infrastructure building to house these people in the communities that come from the communities who are either running away from very harmful relationships or who are having problems in the communities not having adequate housing.

We need to work together. This government needs to work together. Department and departments, when we build infrastructure, that we have programs to go alongside it. If we create programs, we have to have the infrastructure to house those programs to benefit the people of the Northwest Territories. Right now I think our government needs some work in that area. I think this government’s 17th Assembly should be addressing that over the

next four years so that our people don’t suffer anymore. When we put our money out there to build these things, we should do it in the best way and for the best way for the people of the Northwest Territories.

I was really glad to hear of the Minister of Health’s statement earlier today, that we need some focus on prevention and promotion. I will have some questions for him later on today in regard to that area and possibly changing up some of our policies so that people of the Northwest Territories, our non-government organizations, our people who are working on the front lines have adequate resources and funding to put these programs into place to help these people that are in dire straits in these shelters. That is it, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Addressing Root Causes Of Homelessness In All Communities
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Need For New Schools In Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake
Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to make another statement on the need for new schools in Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake. I want to thank the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment for writing to me last week to advise me where the schools stand in the department’s capital needs assessments.

According to the Education, Culture and Employment assessment, work to replace the Charles Yohin School should begin in 2016-17. Work to replace the Charles Tetcho School should begin in 2018-19. While this is good news, I am well aware that identifying needs for new schools and getting them into the capital plan are two different things. I am anxious to move to the next step. Of course, I would like to see work begin on the new schools sooner than the years ECE has identified because I do believe that they are urgent and critical.

I have clearly explained in earlier statements why replacements for these two schools are badly needed.

We won’t achieve the goal of having educated people, as we state over and over again in our Caucus strategic plans, without having suitable learning environments for our young people. The existing buildings are just not adequate. Every year we wait for new schools we risk the future success of our youth. I don’t believe that’s a risk we can afford to make, Mr. Speaker.

It’s good to have this letter in hand, but I want to be sure we are going to be hearing the wonderful and welcomed sound of saws and hammers in Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake within the next three years.

Later on today I will ask questions to the Minister as I continue to press for these needs of these new schools in our communities. Mahsi.

Need For New Schools In Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Negotiated Contracts Policy For Realignment Project On Highway No. 4
Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Negotiated contracts such as that proposed for Det’on Cho Corporation to realign Highway No. 4 play a critical role in the Northwest Territories. The Negotiated Contracts Policy is intended to lead to benefits which could not reasonably be expected through competitive processes which maximizes economic benefits for NWT residents and businesses, provides training and development opportunities, and supports the development of self-sustaining local and regional businesses. That sounds to me like a checklist of the merits of the

Det’on Cho negotiated contract proposal for Highway No. 4. Det’ on Cho has proven its capacity in the initial Detah road contract, where it achieved a 70 percent Aboriginal hiring rate. The firm delivers projects safely, on time, on budget and well below costs of comparable contract arrangements.

Its achievement of the policy objective for development of skilled local tradespersons and the continued provision of training opportunities has been nothing less than outstanding.

There is more to this, though. The highway realignment around Giant Mine is part of the long overdue remediation of the environmental disaster inflicted on Akaitcho lands. Over the years, the Yellowknives Dene have suffered lost use and occupation of traditional lands, loss of hunting and trapping range, debasement of water quality and fish stocks and the introduction of toxic poisons into the environment they rely upon and cherish. Each of these created high costs and the need for equally costly alternatives to these people. The Highway No. 4 realignment project provides the Yellowknives Dene an opportunity to recoup a modicum of these costs through economic growth based upon their savvy and initiative.

As the Transportation Minister said last week, negotiated contracts are intended to keep the benefits of GNWT spending in local economies, backing Det’ on Cho actions to that principle.

I urge the Minister of Transportation to argue strongly with his Cabinet colleagues for a positive decision on granting this negotiated contract. The negotiated contract route thoroughly promotes and upholds the policy principles while to some degree redressing the significant cultural and economic loss from the degradation of Akaitcho traditional lands. Mahsi.

Negotiated Contracts Policy For Realignment Project On Highway No. 4
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Promoting Sport And Active Lifestyle
Members’ Statements

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the weekend I was happy to visit with many people from Hay River that were in Yellowknife for several sporting events. Last week several of my colleagues from this side as well as the Ministers’ indicated that we need to support volunteers in the North and make sure that we encourage people to be more active. I’d like to take this opportunity to tell those people that I think that’s strong in the North, after seeing the many activities this weekend.

Minor hockey has three tournaments in Yellowknife, one in Hay River, and I know it took a great number of volunteers to run these tournaments and there were hundreds of youth that were actively playing their hearts out. I also know that there was a swim meet, a badminton tournament and a volleyball

tournament. As well, the GNWT employees had a curling bonspiel this weekend. I know that there were many other events throughout the North and I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those people that helped organize and all those people that participated.

Sports are a healthy way for us to promote our people and to make active living and healthy lives. I’d like to thank everybody for their hard work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Promoting Sport And Active Lifestyle
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Communication With Regular Members Regarding Public Investment
Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This past Friday the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corp made a capital contribution announcement regarding the Betty House. First off, Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize clearly that as a Member I’m very pleased to hear about this commitment on behalf of our government, and it’s something that I have spoken in the past about and stressed the need we need to invest into. But sadly, at the same time, I, like many Members in this House, was shocked to hear this announcement. What should have been seen strictly as a good-news story, something we’re doing to promote the cause and help women in transition shelters, now becomes a conversation of where is the process. Where was the involvement of the Members on this particular side of the House? Where was the discussion in committee?

Communication With Regular Members Regarding Public Investment
Members’ Statements

An Hon. Member

Where’d you get the money?

Communication With Regular Members Regarding Public Investment
Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Where did you get the money, as well? While this is happening, Members are becoming concerned that this is becoming an Epimetheus when it comes to work in this particular Assembly. In short, are we simply an afterthought of this particular government?

Our Premier preaches continually about building good relationships and working relationships; however, it’s starting to look like he’s inviting everyone but this side of the House. While he’s busy out there courting new relationships…

---Interjection

Communication With Regular Members Regarding Public Investment
Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

While this Premier is out, busy courting new relationships and he’s filling that wonderful dance card with all his new friends, he’s forgetting about us sitting on this side of the House looking to be involved in this investment.

It’s been my experience, with more than eight years behind me, that when any new contribution or major contribution is a budget investment or certainly infrastructure item of this type, typically the affected Member or Members are involved. What working

relationship is this Premier telling his Cabinet Minister to build? Regular Members want to be involved. He’ll say, well, I did inform you. Informing the Members an hour before session started on Friday while we were in Priorities and Planning getting ready for the morning is not communication. Yet again an afterthought.

The fact is the lack of information seems very disrespectful. It seems along the fine lines of are we trumping our privilege in this Assembly. Members want to be involved.

There will be questions later today to the Premier, asking about when you will start informing and working with Regular Members on projects like this. We should be celebrating this contribution, not concerned about the process.

Communication With Regular Members Regarding Public Investment
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize a former MLA and colleague, Mr. David Krutko.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize the former Member for Mackenzie Delta, who has left very big shoes to fill here.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d also like to recognize my former colleague, Mr. Krutko. It’s an honour to sit in his chair at committee meetings. They’re much shorter now.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 6, acknowledgements. Ms. Bisaro.

Acknowledgement 2-17(2): Condolences On The Passing Of Bishop John Sperry
Acknowledgements

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to acknowledge the passing of Bishop John Sperry, a beloved Northerner, on Saturday. In my time in the travel industry, Bishop Sperry was the most dignified, considerate, compassionate client I ever dealt with. His character and personal qualities were ones we would all do well to emulate. The North is a poorer place today. My condolences to his family and all those who knew him.

Acknowledgement 2-17(2): Condolences On The Passing Of Bishop John Sperry
Acknowledgements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 50-17(2): Public Release Of Ministerial Travel Reports
Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a bit of a thorny subject and I’m very reluctant to bring it up, of course, but in previous governments – a couple of them, at least – the Premier has committed to table, post, make public all travels of Cabinet Ministers. I would like to ask our Premier, the Honourable Bob McLeod, today if he is going to commit to share that same information publicly.

Question 50-17(2): Public Release Of Ministerial Travel Reports
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Question 50-17(2): Public Release Of Ministerial Travel Reports
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have an open and transparent government and we’ll continue that practice.

Question 50-17(2): Public Release Of Ministerial Travel Reports
Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

I do appreciate that response. We’ll look forward to seeing those travel reports. For the record, I think that Members on this side of the House should be expected to do the same thing.

Question 50-17(2): Public Release Of Ministerial Travel Reports
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. More of a comment. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is just a follow up from my statement regarding heart and stroke. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. What methods do we use, especially in small communities, to detect and diagnose heart disease in children?

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that the method that is used is used by the doctors. I don’t actually know the exact terminology, but it goes to the regular process during the time when a child would be feeling ill. The doctors would go through a process that I’m not familiar with or not an expert to speak of at this time.

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I’d like to thank the Minister for his response. My other question is: Is information regarding heart disease and heart conditions getting to school kids, and if so, how is that being

done regarding the overall health of children and heart conditions?

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The department supports some of the Healthy Family programs. We have some Healthy Family programs in the North and also there’s Healthy Babies. During the prenatal stages there is support given to the mothers to see if there could be any issues prior to birth. One of the key areas is that when the babies are just born and until they start school, they have a program, Healthy Babies, and if there’s any issue, it’s hoped it would be caught at that point.

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I’d like to thank the Minister again. Just in terms of my final question, how do we know that information programs, whether it’s Healthy Babies or initiatives to ensure that heart disease is detected, are effective since we know that the rate of obesity, for example, is rising?

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

At this time we recognize the fact that there is obesity, high obesity amongst children. The department is trying to work with the federal government on the childhood obesity issue right across the board by asking the health centres and anybody that is in the health field to work on proper eating, and not eating sugar, and exercising and so on. Essentially what we’re trying to do is approach this from a wellness and promotion area, hoping that these issues are picked up at this time. Some of them are difficult to pick up, but that is what we are hoping to do with the promotion and prevention programs.

Question 51-17(2): Diagnosing Heart Disease In Infants And Children
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of ITI and are with regard to the management of the Prelude Lake campground and boat launch. There’s a large and growing demand on these facilities and it’s probably the most popular park in the Northwest Territories. A large volume of parked campers, casual users of the boat launch, and those accessing both legal and illegal squats from the landing. Parking and dock use is maxed out and quality of experience is declining. In correspondence from the 16th Assembly’s Minister of ITI, the Minister said a new and comprehensive management plan for the park will be forthcoming this year. Can the Minister of ITI tell me the status of that work?

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. David Ramsay.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was my understanding that this comprehensive management plan was started and I would be more

than happy to advise the Member of the status of that plan as soon as I find out.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I look forward to that update. I guess really we want to be staying on top of our facilities such as this in a timely way and before they disintegrate to this degree, making the corrections that are necessary. What are the mechanisms that we have to regularly monitor the health of our facilities such as the Prelude Lake boat launch and so on, and for taking action to get those repaired in a timely way?

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I take very seriously the concerns related to parks and tourism. I spent a number of years as a parks officer in the North Slave region. I’m well aware of the condition and deteriorating conditions in some of our parks and the fact that when it comes to maintenance dollars and capital dollars, parks, because of the competing interests for those capital dollars, are usually one of the last things that gets put on the table. I think we really need to do parks a service and try to identify capital dollars in a meaningful way going forward that are going to have an impact on our parks and the condition of our parks, because we are out there in a large way promoting this territory to tourists around not only North America but globally, getting them here. It’s important that when tourists do show up in the Northwest Territories that our parks are in shape, that they’ll enjoy their stay and that our residents will also enjoy our park system the way it is.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for the response from the Minister. As the Minister noted, in my previous question, there’s a wide range of consultation going on with territorial and federal departments with regard to Prelude Lake, but there was no mention from the previous Minister how First Nations governments’ involvement will be ensured, and the public and stakeholder consultations. The boat launch itself is a jumping off point to the use of Akaitcho lands. Can the Minister assure me that the Yellowknives Dene First Nation will be included early in the work and the public will be informed and involved throughout?

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I gave the Member a commitment to get him an update on the status of the plan for Prelude Lake and I’d be more than happy to get the Member a status of the involvement of the Yellowknives Dene in those discussions.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment there. Another big component of the high demand for a boat launch and parking facilities is the high number of illegal occupations on federal lands, squatters that use the boat launch and so on. I’ve received an assurance from the Minister of MACA

that there will be a call for aggressive federal enforcement of land law. These squats debase our tourism product as well as for the local law-obeying citizens. I’d like to ask if the Minister will work with the MACA Minister to push for federal enforcement of its law.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Question 52-17(2): Prelude Lake Campground Management Plan
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services regarding his opening statement earlier today dealing with prevention and promotion. It’s a great subject and a great move forward for this government to be looking into prevention and promotion to get our people in the NWT healthy and living fulfilled lives. In his statement he mentions that communities are essential in making prevention work. He also says that prevention and promotion activities are essential if we want to improve the health status of our population. I believe currently the policy for the Health Promotion Fund, which this would probably filter through, only provides funding to one project per year per organization. In order to make this successful, I believe that this government needs to provide funding to similar projects on a concurrent basis. Is the Minister willing to look into the policy to change the policy so that groups who have successful projects can get funding in subsequent years rather than just having a one-time deal?

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the plan is to move more money into prevention. That is not to say that we want to increase the overall budget in there. Right now the Department of Health and Social Services is spending over $12 million in the area of wellness and also in that budget is where they have the community-based health promotion. What we’re trying to do is move any programs that look like they’re successful, we’re going to support, because we recognize that issue, too, that some of the programs have been funded one year and regardless of whether they’re successful or not, they’ve been dropped.

What we’re trying to do now is move more of that type of money into prevention. We had indicated in the House before that we were hoping to move about what the department is spending, about 1

percent of its budget, on prevention and promotion, to about 3 percent. Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

As the Minister stated, there will be more funding going into health promotion and the policies and looking at the successful projects. But in the past, I believe the department has seen a lot of successful projects. However, funding couldn’t go back to them based on the policy that if an organization had a successful program one year or they got funding for one year, they wouldn’t be able to see funding for the same project the second year. My question was to the Minister, if he’d be willing to change the policy to multi-year funding rather than just the one-time deal for successful projects. Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

The Department of Health and Social Services goes through the annual business planning process, like any other department, but we actually did discuss the ways where we can do this, where we can provide multi-year funding to organizations that are making progress in the area of prevention and promotion. Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just one final question in regard to this new funding that might be going to the prevention area. Will there be a marketing strategy going out from the Department of Health and Social Services to all these communities and all these organizations to let them know that the new policy is going to possibly change, so that any organizations that had successful programs in the past and haven’t gone back to that pot because of the current policy, that they will be able to go back and get funding again for a successful project that they had in the past? What is the marketing strategy for this upcoming fiscal year? Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Initially, when we’re moving into more prevention, more promotion, our first step was to discuss this with the Joint Leadership Council, which are the chairs and the public administrators of the various health and social services boards across the territory. That is the first thing we’re doing. Secondly, we’re going out to the communities and talking not only to the public but also the leadership, to look at areas that they think would be the best for their communities. Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to prevention, earlier to my Member’s statement I made a comment that the departments should work more collectively together. Has the Minister of Health worked with other areas such as the Department of Justice and how can they work together so that funding is not duplicated for some of these prevention programs? Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, an example of the departments working with other departments is like going into the schools and providing money to the schools and having something like Drop the Pop promotion in schools that we’re going to go into with. Like I indicated, they’ll be launching that in 40 schools this week and next week. Yes, our intention is to work on the prevention with the Department of MACA because of the youth and also in the schools, education. Yes, I think we’re also working on some other areas with the Department of Justice that may not be exactly with health promotion for children, but we’re working with them as well. Thank you.

Question 53-17(2): Multi-Year Funding For Prevention And Wellness Promotion Projects
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the moratorium on evictions draws near, I’d like to ask the Minister of Housing what is the success rate for people in public housing with arrears to set up payment plans.

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now we’ve had nobody that is potentially affected by the evictions come forward and enter into repayment plans. We’ve got a month and a half left and we’re hoping that things improve in the meantime. Thank you.

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

My next question is: Will the Minister of Housing be willing to extend the deadline?

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We have had this in place now for approximately four months. We feel that is adequate enough time for people to come in and enter into repayment plans and try to honour them. No, we won’t be looking at extending the deadline, because we feel the people have had enough time. Thank you.

Question 54-17(2): Public Housing Arrears And Evictions Moratorium
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in the House before, Hay River is having difficulties getting permanent doctors. Speaking with the health board there, they’ve indicated there is also a barrier to funding. The fact is that there is a budget for doctors, but it doesn’t allow them to hire additional nurse practitioners and additional

professionals in the community because the dollars are allocated for doctors. My question today is for the Minister of Health. Why is this barrier in place? I guess that is the first question. Thank you.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time there is a restriction on allocating doctor funding. It’s a restriction that’s placed by the Financial Management Board to ensure that we always have enough physician funding in the budget to hire doctors. We have a certain amount of doctors that we need to operate in the North, and that funding at this time is restricted into that budget. Thank you.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

In light of Hay River’s situation currently, is there a way that the Minister can implement a temporary moratorium of sorts to allow Hay River the flexibility to hire those additional professionals while we don’t have permanent doctors so that we can have consistent professionals in the community of Hay River?

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

The department will actually be working on a business case for reallocation in that funding, and also the expansion of other health professionals, and particularly the nurse practitioner duties, in order to try to accommodate the lack of doctors in the various communities. Thank you.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

My next question is: What is the timeline that the Minister would expect that we’d be able to implement this type of funding to allow nurse practitioners and, hopefully, a Midwifery Program into the Hay River Health Centre. What kind of timeline?

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

One of the political directions that I have given to the department is to look at a strategy to bring doctors into it. As part of that strategy, as I indicated, would be the expansion of the nurse practitioner duties and other health professionals. We are actually starting the process now to try to develop something, whether it is going to be a model that brings doctors into the communities or doctors into the North or switching or expanding some duties of other health professionals in order to accommodate this. We are actually starting on the process now. Thank you.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Yes, we look forward to that sooner than later, Mr. Speaker. I have no further questions. Thank you.

Question 55-17(2): Doctor Shortage In Hay River
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Human Resources. I would like to ask him a few questions to follow up on my statement. I talked a lot about public service, and lack of customer service and lack of service to our residents. I would like to ask the Minister initially whether or not we have a definition of customer services, whether his department has a definition of customer service, or are there standards that the department has that we use when we define customer service. Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Abernethy.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Great Slave

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Human Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the past there have been training courses available through the NWT for customer service. I don’t believe those or any courses are currently being offered. As such, I am not sure if we have a true definition of customer service, but I am certainly willing to look into it and get a comprehensive answer whenever I can, at my earliest convenience. Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I guess my question went a bit more to the larger definition of service. I am thinking of service to our residents. I appreciate that customer service courses are sometimes offered. I think they have to be offered an awful lot more than they are. To the Minister in the issue of service to our residents in a larger sense, could he tell me whether or not we have standards which indicate, which define the kind of service, the level of service that we should be providing to our residents through our programs? Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Great Slave

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Human Resources

I am not aware of a global statement that we have with respect to customer service. I believe a lot of the departments, with respect to their actual program areas, have identified a level of customer service or a level of expectation for each of those program areas, but as a global statement, I don’t believe we have one. Once again, I will speak to the department and see if we can track something down in that sense.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate the commitment to look into this. As the Minister for Human Resources and the Minister responsible for the employment of all the people within our public service, I would like to ask him about the issue of time off at Christmas and at New Year’s. It was negotiated quite some years ago. I would like to know from the Minister whether or not there has ever been any evaluation or review of the impact that that closure has had on the service that we provide to our residents. Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Great Slave

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Human Resources

I don’t believe a review of that nature has been conducted. I can say that there are a number of GNWT employees who really do like the Donnie Days and enjoy getting the time off. With respect to the impact on customer service, we don’t have that information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I am sure that there are employees who enjoy a paid week at Christmas. We all would, I am sure. I would like to ask my last question to the Minister. If there has not ever been an evaluation done, I would like to ask the Minister if he would commit to consider doing a review or an evaluation and look at the benefit or the lack of benefit of keeping offices open over Christmas, whether it be every second day or every day except for stat holidays, half staff, full staff. Would he look at that kind of an evaluation or review? Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

Great Slave

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Human Resources

Just for some clarity, not all GNWT employees are eligible for the mandatory with-pay days during the actual Christmas holidays. Every department is asked to do a bit of an analysis of their department to determine which services are continuous or required over the holiday season. Things like health care workers and correctional workers and certain positions in Transportation as well as some positions in Public Works that are responsible for maintaining buildings and actual public safety and some positions in the Department of Human Resources like medical travel; these positions don’t shut down, so not all positions shut down over the Christmas season. Those positions that fall under that category, they actually take their leave during the year at some other point as operational requirements allow. There are a lot of people within the GNWT who are required to provide services over the holiday season. It will stay that way. As far as a review, we haven’t done one. I will talk to the department and I will get back to the Member. Thank you.

Question 56-17(2): GNWT Customer Service Standard
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today in my Member’s statement I spoke about something that affects many of our youth across our territory and that subject is bullying and cyber-bullying. It is clear that many jurisdictions across Canada have been realizing the need for proper legislation to allow schools and authorities the ability to deal with the burden of bullies and their victims.

Admittedly, at this time I have to give congratulatory remarks to the province of Quebec for their most recent introduction of measures that deal with bullying in schools. I am hoping the GNWT will follow suit. My question to the Minister of Education, given the nature of the topic and the need to remove this intimidation in our schools, is the Minister and his department prepared to bring forward legislative means in the form of anti-bullying or cyber-bullying legislation in the coming months? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Those are the areas that we are exploring with other provincial jurisdictions. We knew that it is a controversial issue. There have been some incidents in the past in other provinces, provincial jurisdictions. We want to explore further and do our research. Some legislation is working and some isn’t. We need to find out the pros and cons of why it is not working. Not only that, but I would like to work with Municipal and Community Affairs, especially with the Proud2bNWT.ca focusing on the youth and also the Department of Justice Not Us! campaign focusing on the youth and drugs. It all involves anti-bullying in the schools, in the communities. We need to have a coordinated approach. That is what our focus is on right now. Mahsi.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, thank you to the Minister for giving us a broad overview but it sounds like there is some work that wants to be done but is not being done. Until such time as we need to raise awareness of bullying in school in our system, can the Minister describe, because we are still working on such actions at this point, what exactly are the legal recourses for the school administration to deal with bullying as it stands today? Thank you.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, there are certain processes in place with various school boards to have their own policies. Each of the school boards have different policies in place to deal with bullying in the schools. When there is an issue they deal with the school boards and the superintendents and also they deal with my department because I need to work closely with the board of education across the Northwest Territories to deal with 49 schools. Those are some of the processes that I outlined. Mahsi.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister’s response on policy. I am talking about legislation. These are two different things. They need to protect our students, and policy obviously is not doing what it is meant to do. In fact, I want to take this one step further. If the Minister’s response is such that we are still researching a subject which

is being dealt with on a provincial basis today and we have to wait for such means, it may suggest that maybe the Members on this side of the House might have to come forward with a private member’s bill. I know the Members here are going to be very fashionable bringing that forward maybe in the months to come. Until that could be drafted and, again, if we are waiting for the government side of the House to come forward, are there any other supportive or communicative strategies the Minister is aware of to raise awareness of bullying and cyber-bullying in the interim as we are waiting for this type of legislation? Thank you.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I realize there is a difference between policy and legislation. We currently don’t have legislation on bullying. That is part of the reason why I am saying that there are policies in place that deal with the school boards. At the same time, we are exploring those areas. In order to bring legislation into effect, I need to deal with the standing committee. If there are going to be changes to policy and legislation, then we need to deal with the committee as we move forward. Those are options that we are currently exploring. I am hoping to bring that forward within due time. Mahsi.

Question 57-17(2): Anti-Bullying And Cyber-Bullying Legislation
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I just want to follow up with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment about capitalizing the needs of schools in a couple of communities in my riding, most particularly the Charles Yohin School in Fort Liard and the Charles Tetcho in Trout Lake. I’d like to ask the Minister what steps are necessary in order to move from the capital needs assessment portion of the planning of these schools and get these schools incorporated into our five-year capital plan.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. With all of the capital infrastructure, the process of going through the budget planning process to deal with capital, and we do have an area of technical or evaluation of the schools. So we do, upon requests, evaluation of the schools. For particular schools, whether it be Trout Lake or Liard and other areas of infrastructure that’s badly needed in the community or in need of repair, then we do an analysis in those areas and we’ve done those in the Member’s riding as well. So when it comes to the capital planning process, these items will be discussed for sure. Mahsi.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I’d like to work with the department as we move towards the capital planning process in the springtime come May and June. I was just asking about getting the process on the capital plan. I know that in other departments they use planning studies. So I would like to start with that. When can we look at doing planning studies for these two schools in order to put an amount on them? Thank you.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I need to find out from my department exactly where the status is on those two particular schools that the Member is referring to, particularly on the planning studies, if they’ve done one already; if not, then when is that going to be happening. So I can get back to the Member on those two schools that he’s referring to. Mahsi.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. So the next step is to raise that in the capital planning. As well, I think the key objective here is to move it from the capital needs assessment to the capital planning studies, and also I’d like to invite the Minister to do a tour of the riding so that he can see for himself the needs of these schools and the amount of children that are in them. As well, what efforts have been done to date in these two communities in looking at and assessing the schools? Thank you.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We’ve had consultants work on various school projects, whether it be evaluation, the status of each school, and there’s been a highlight of minor or major repairs that need to be initiated. There’s been some minor capital infrastructure that has been identified for these two schools. So it is currently in the works, and in moving forward, if there are other issues that we need to discuss, then the capital plan process will be the opportune time. Mahsi.

Question 58-17(2): Nahanni Butte And Trout Lake Schools
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche. Okay. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I talked about the issue of process and the whole underlying theme here is it’s not about the Betty House in particular, which if money made itself available I would certainly support transition shelter for women and children in every regional centre of the Northwest Territories, but as we all know that’s certainly not possible. But it’s sad because it comes under the halo of a great launch and a significant achievement under a contribution from this government towards this project. But yet at the end of the day Members are left wondering where did this come from.

My question will be directed to the Premier, strictly about process of his government working with our side of the House. Would the Premier explain why weren’t MLAs kept informed of this particular announcement? Because we have no idea where the money was coming from, we had no idea this project launch was going to happen, and e-mailing us just before the Assembly sat is not communicating. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have thought the Member would have been right on top of this as this Betty House is in his riding, but the money was approved in the 2009-2010 budget through Canada’s Economic Action Plan. It was carried over and it was reviewed by the Standing Committee on Social Programs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

You can tell from the Premier’s response there about how did I know, clearly I must have hit a vein of reality here. The fact is this side of the House is not fully kept apprised as to what actions were happening. This particular project did not get the vetting of the standing committee in advance of this particular situation, and as I said in my Member’s statement, clearly whenever a significant contribution happens for any particular region, the MLA is informed. Certainly not only myself, as the Premier has readily informed of being the local MLA, there are seven MLAs in Yellowknife and something could have gone out in writing to us.

What actions is this Premier going to do and take today to correct these steps of blatant insults to this side of the House?

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

It’s my understanding that the Standing Committee on Social Programs was informed that work was ongoing on finalizing this agreement at a meeting in December 2010. Also through normal protocol and convention we give additional advanced notice at least an hour before we announce it, which we did on Friday of last week. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I want to acknowledge the tone seems to have changed in the Premier’s response towards me. I want to thank him for that because I felt very insulted by I should have known, and the fact is I think other people at the same time were insulted.

This being vetted in 2010, well, I can tell you in 2011 I asked questions specifically about what type of contribution from the NWT Housing Corporation will be made towards the Betty House. At the time the Minister of Housing had said well, geez, there’s no money, the wallet is bare. So in fact this contribution seems to have come out of the air. So how are we going to correct these particular

problems and where did the money come from? Because it would have been nice to be vetted in this current Assembly. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

I’ll try to be very careful about my tone, but the money was approved in the 2009-2010 budget through Canada’s Economic Action Plan. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members are noting that with this development, are the Regular MLAs considered an afterthought. I want to hear clearly in the House today that with any future announcements, MLAs will be invited to a process at least being aware of the particular project. In fact, when we saw people gathering in the gallery on Friday, they knew this particular project was being launched and I’ll tell you when the good news announcement seems to get trumped by process, it seems to affect all of us. So that’s the type of commitment I’m looking for from the Premier. Will he make sure that an e-mail just before the Assembly happens is not the type of communication time we’re talking about? Full information and sharing. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

There was no official signing and we are committed to sharing information with everybody, including the other side of the House. Thank you.

Question 59-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to ask a question of the Premier following up on my colleague’s questions with regard to the announcement for Betty House. I have heard the Premier say that the money was approved in 2009, part of Canada’s Economic Action Plan in 2010 – I think in 2010 – and then he also said that the Standing Committee on Social Programs was advised in December of 2010. I wonder if the Premier could commit to providing the documents which would verify that. I have no recollection of that particular information being provided to Social Programs. Thank you.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll provide this document, which is a dec that was presented in December 2011 to the Standing Committee on Social Programs. Thank you.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I have to ask the Premier to repeat his answer. I understood him to say, in the answer to my question, that information was given to Social Programs in December 2011, so I’m really

confused now. Did we get information in 2010 in the previous Assembly or did we get information in December 2011 in this particular Assembly? I am still on Social Programs and I have no recollection of getting anything in December 2011 either.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

The Member is correct; she got information in both 2010 and 2011.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Premier for that clarification. So again I would like to ask if we can get, as Members, a copy of the documents which went to the Standing Committee on Social Programs in December 2010 and the one that went to the Standing Committee on Social Programs in December 2011.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I have the dec from December 2011 right here and we’ll dig out the information from 2010 as well.

Question 60-17(2): Betty House Funding Announcement
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to commend the government on their Spectacular NWT promotion through ITI. I have a question for the Minister of ITI. Is this program a multi-year program and promotion?

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. David Ramsay.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, it is.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

As I indicated, I do believe this is a good program. Does the government have some sort of evaluation process in place of how beneficial this program will be and how they will evaluate the results from the promotions?

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

With a marketing initiative like that you don’t see the results until sometimes two and three years down the road. Certainly one of the evaluation criteria is the number of visitors that end up coming to visit the Northwest Territories and those numbers are easily tracked.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

I would like the Minister to maybe consider, or my question would be: Would the department look at creating some sort of evaluation process now so that you have a benchmark to compare your results for the next two or three years? I understand that it’s difficult to evaluate some of that stuff, but you have to have a benchmark that you’re comparing to for two or three years. Would the Minister commit to that?

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Certainly, we have a number of sectors when it comes to our tourism

that we have here in the Northwest Territories. When I spoke of statistics, we keep track of all the different sectors, whether it’s aurora viewing, fishing, hunting, general touring, outdoor adventure and things of that nature. We do have adequate statistics, which again, as we move forward with a marketing initiative like the Spectacular NWT, we will be able to two or three years down the road see where marketing initiatives like that may or may not have had an impact.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question is about the tour operators and how they will be involved in this promotion and can get involved in this Spectacular NWT.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Industry’s involvement is through the Northwest Territories Tourism. They have a board of directors there. They’re actively involved in the tourism industry here in the Northwest Territories. They do a great job marketing tourism here in the Northwest Territories to both tourists in North America and around the world.

Question 61-17(2): Spectacular NWT Promotional Campaign
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services. I know we graduate nurse practitioners out of Aurora College but I’m learning from constituents that we are actually hiring those nurse practitioners into regular RN jobs rather than nurse practitioner jobs. This is sort of following up on my colleague’s for Hay River North questions. We need to make good use of these nurse practitioners. What’s going on here?

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The positions of nurse practitioners are needed in the regional centres where they’re able to perform their full nurse practitioner jobs. Nurse practitioners are brought in and educated to become nurse practitioners so that they can be out in the field and providing much needed relief like physician-type of work. The nurse practitioners, when they end up wishing to remain in Yellowknife, do end up as registered nurses on many occasions because they have doctors in Yellowknife. I think seven of our nine nurse practitioners are located here in Yellowknife.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I don’t expect the Minister to have this information immediately at hand, but I wonder if

he could provide us how many nurse practitioner positions there are in Yellowknife, in the regional centres and in other communities that are vacant at this time.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Just from memory I do believe there are two larger communities that have nurse practitioner positions. One is filled and the rest of the nurse practitioner positions are actually located in Yellowknife, but I don’t know how many of those are actually earmarked as nurse practitioner positions, off the top of my head.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that immediate info. I appreciate the Minister’s response there. I wonder if the Minister could just confirm that and give us that information for each of our regional centres at least, including Yellowknife. The added aspect I’m interested in is the number of nurse practitioners who are hired in the Northwest Territories and where they are who are not in nurse practitioner jobs. I’d like to find out what the size of our resource is that we’re not using very well, for whatever reason, then we can explore that.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Yes, I can provide that information to the Member and the House.

Question 62-17(2): Employment Of Nurse Practitioner Graduates
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to talk a little bit today about the concentration of specialized services in Yellowknife, when there are other communities outside of Yellowknife which are large enough and have great enough need to have some capital infrastructure to address some of these things.

In Yellowknife we have Betty House, Bailey House, the new dementia facility, a complex that completely accommodates people who require barrier-free access; a whole complex downtown Yellowknife for people who have physical disabilities who require barrier-free access. We have women’s shelters, we have all kinds of services here. These services and this infrastructure obviously came about as a result of a very organized and concerted effort on the part of organizations, NGOs, volunteers, fundraisers, which you have a lot to draw on here in Yellowknife. There are a lot of very community-minded people in Yellowknife and I believe that these facilities have come on stream as a result of those efforts.

But we have communities outside of Yellowknife. We don’t want to have to tell our people that if they want these services, move to Yellowknife. We have homelessness in Hay River as well.

I’d like to ask the Premier how we get our proposals for infrastructure on the table. Do we need to form community groups to put together proposals to appeal to the government for the millions of dollars that they get here in Yellowknife? What is our access? What is our avenue to this kind of support? We do need these and we can sustain these facilities outside of the capital.

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’re open to receiving any proposals that are brought forward by volunteers and non-government organizations and we would review them. In this particular case referencing Betty House, our government is only one contributor and generally the operator of the facility will be a non-government organization. In this case we found a way through the Building Canada Economic Action Plan to assist. I think in every instance we would try to find a way to assist.

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

If we were to take the population of Hay River and the population of Yellowknife and also examine the need for something like a homeless shelter in Hay River, probably on a ratio on population even, you could probably get a house – a smaller house than Betty House or Bailey House – in a community like Hay River or Fort Smith probably for $500,000 or $600,000. I want to take a clear message back to my constituents in Hay River. If we form a volunteer organization in Hay River that can identify the need, and identify a location and we fill out a proposal, is this government willing to entertain a similar facility in Hay River on a smaller scale?

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

Yellowknife South

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Recognizing that the government contribution to Betty House is only a small portion, we would be prepared to entertain something on a similar basis percentage wise, I’m sure.

Question 63-17(2): Concentration Of Specialized Services In Yellowknife
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 2: Interim Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), 2012-2013
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Minister of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Wednesday,

February 15, 2012, I will move that Bill 2, Interim Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), 2012-2013, be read for the first time.

Bill 2: Interim Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), 2012-2013
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 2-17(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012; and Tabled Document 3-17(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We have a couple of items for consideration in Committee of the Whole today. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 2-17(2) and Tabled Document 3-17(2).

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. We will resume, then, after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’ll call Committee of the Whole back to order. Today we’ve agreed to consider Tabled Document 3-17(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012. I’d like to ask Minister Miltenberger if he would like to present his opening comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012. This document outlines an increase of $14.817 million in operations expenditures for the 2011-2012 fiscal year.

The major items included in the supplementary estimates are:

1. $3.335 million for the Department of Health and

Social Services to provide contribution funding to the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority and the Stanton Territorial Health Authority for extraordinary costs that contributed to the accumulated deficits in these authorities. This amount will be fully offset by accumulated operating surpluses in other health and social services authorities.

2. $2.938 million for the Department of Health and

Social Services to provide contribution funding to the Stanton Territorial Health Authority for costs associated with the purchase of blood products from Canadian Blood Services.

3. $2.126 million for the Department of Health and

Social Services for increased costs associated with children in residential care outside of the Northwest Territories.

4. $1.739 million for the NWT Housing Corporation

to fund increases in the costs for utilities in public housing units.

5. $944,000 for the Department of Education,

Culture and Employment to fund the projected shortfall in the Income Assistance Program for the 2011-12 fiscal year.

6. $835,000 for the Department of Education,

Culture and Employment to fund the increased costs in the Student Financial Assistance Program.

I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary estimates document.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I’d now like to ask the Minister if he’d like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses to the table.

Thank you. Minister Miltenberger, would you please introduce your witnesses for the record, and we’ll be watching to see if you get Mr. Kalgutkar’s title right. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me from Finance, Mr. Mike Aumond; and Mr. Sandy Kalgutkar, deputy secretary to the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you very much. General comments from Members on the supplementary appropriation (operations expenditures). General comments? Thank you. I hear that detail over there. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The supplementary operations expenses, one of the things that I have is the amount of dollars that we are going to be approving for the Department of Health and Social Services, specifically the Beaufort-Delta and the Stanton Health Authority for the deficits these two hospitals are running.

Year after year we continue to bail out the authorities, and not in thousands of dollars but in the millions of dollars. I know that the department is working hard to address this issue and there have been many plans over the years on how they are going to work on some form of financial discipline to not have these deficits. It’s been almost a practice ever since I’ve been in the Legislative Assembly. Debt has continued to run high and it’s still running high. I’m not sure what causes these deficits to go so high. That hurts the small communities because we have money going into the Beaufort-Delta and Stanton to offset their deficits, so when we want to do some programs or services we are always told that there is no money. We continue to hear the same thing of no money for certain programs we want to see in our communities.

Case in point, we are seeing $3.3 million from this government going to staffing in the Beaufort, and we will continue to do that. Like I said before, the boards are working hard to address this issue and we keep throwing them lifelines to keep them afloat and not to go too badly into a deficit. There are probably some expenditures that are needed. I’m not too sure which ones.

It raises a concern for me, for the operation. Do we have it right with Stanton? Do we have it right with the Beaufort-Delta? Who’s managing their money? What things are we not picking up that they continue to go into deficit? Will we continue to bail them out year after year? The manager knows that they can count on the government to pass supplementaries to bail them out. Is that the message that we’re giving to these two health boards?

I understand other health boards are also in a deficit. Or is that the way we’re doing business in the Northwest Territories with health? With the costs, are we not under-budgeting? Something’s happening that we’re sending the message to these two boards. If this was a private business, they would be out of business. And we continue to bail them out year after year. This is not very healthy and probably our health care is not very healthy. I have a concern about that.

Madam Chair, we’re spending close to $3 million on blood services, blood products from the Canadian Blood Services. That’s a high cost also. Probably the people that we are spending this money on greatly need it. It’s probably saving lives right now, but it adds a huge cost to this government here. We’re spending over $2 million for children outside the Northwest Territories. I’m thinking that some of these services that the children are receiving outside the Territories we don’t have in the Northwest Territories, so we’ve got to spend it outside. Not to get into the details, but that’s a heck of a lot of money. I’m not too sure that there will be

a day when we can bring these children back to the North.

I wanted to ask about the income support assistance that we have. The department’s asking close to a million dollars for a shortfall. Where was the shortfall? Is that part of the government’s operations that we budget for unexpected shortfalls, forced growth, the number of clients that we’re receiving? Is that why some people in my region are being refused when family members are asking to support them? Those are the kinds of questions that I have.

To get back to the almost $3 million for the blood services for the people that we need in the North, can’t we look at other ways where we could possibly look at a process where we can donate blood for these people? At this cost, can we pay people to give blood in the North? That’s about all I have to say, Madam Chair, with the general comments to this supplementary budget.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member has raised a number of critical points. I would point out that Stanton and Inuvik are acute care facilities and I think there is a direct correlation to the struggles with their costs and the fact that they are running the most expensive health programs that can be offered in the health care system. I would point out, as well, the Member commented that if health was a private business it would out of business. I would suggest to the Member that if he wants to see what would happen with a private business, then he could look south of the border, the 49th parallel, and see where

tens of millions of Americans don’t have any health care coverage because they can’t afford it, and the first question they ask when you come through the door is: What’s your health care coverage and where’s your credit card?

We have a system that is not perfect, that is expensive, but it is, I still think, overall a very good business. It provides critical programs. I know the Minister of Health will expand on some of these issues.

In regard to the blood services, blood services are past the day of just donating blood at the local health centre these days. Based on the Krever inquiry and all the things that happened with the tainted blood scandal, if the Member will think back a number of years, millions were spent on the inquiry and tens of millions of dollars were spent revamping the blood services system. The instance before us in the supp today is we have some very expensive blood products required by a small number of patients that is critical to their survival. That’s where that cost comes in.

I’ll now ask the Minister of Health if he wants to elaborate. I’ll ask later, Madam Chair, with your indulgence, if the Minister of ECE would speak to the income support question. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll add more to the Canadian Blood Service, blood and plasma protein products. The Canadian Blood Service is a non-profit, charitable organization that provides blood and blood supply products to Canadians. However, Health Canada is responsible for regulating the blood supply system. The high cost of this item really is, like the Minister of Finance indicated, it’s actually just two people, believe it or not, which consume a large part of this budget. Plasma protein products, there are only two people using that product and it resulted in a shortfall. The costs, the blood in 2010-11 is $1.7 million which resulted in almost $1.967 million shortfall. The total cost to the Canadian Blood Service in this actual cost was projected costs in 2011-12 for the rest of this year is $2.7 million. Again, that resulted in a shortfall of $1.97 million. The budget for this product is only $743,000. It is just the actual cost that is needed to provide blood to keep these individuals alive.

Authority deficits are attributed to several factors including historical funding levels and have not kept pace with the cost drivers and/or even inflation. The two authorities, as indicated by the Minister of Finance, are the two authorities that have hospitals. At this time although we are constantly reviewing the costs, we haven’t changed the funding models of the authorities so that some of the authorities do all come out with surpluses every year and then these two that have the hospitals do have deficits.

We are looking at trying to develop a long-term solution by amending authority funding to address these structural deficits at this time. At this time, what happens often is that clients are sent from a housing authority to the hospital. The hospital here or the hospital in Inuvik will pick up the cost for that client, so the client could be from another authority but ends up in one of the hospitals. The cost is picked up also.

In addition to that, the medical travel has been transferred to Stanton. Each time there is medical travel, a solution for the various health and social services authorities would be to put the individual on medical travel, so if he ends up here and then further on to Edmonton, then Stanton picks up that cost. Stanton also has that additional issue of dealing with the medical travel and that also runs into a deficit. I don’t have the actual number, but $3 million worth of deficit in medical travel comes to mind. Again, that is a result from all of the authorities and all of the clients right across the North that do need medical travel.

The residential southern placement of children, this is children who are… We have contractual obligations for children to receive services in the residential facilities that are in the South. Right now we have 49 children that are in residential southern facilities. That is a cost of over almost $5.3 million to house and provide service. The clients that are placed in southern residential facilities for various reasons range from long-term placements for lifelong disabilities to short-term placements for treatment or transitional programs related to mental health disorders and behavioural problems. There is quite a range there of some of the children on this list are there basically on a permanent basis; some are there and they will come back. The hope is that there wouldn’t be a lot of short-term treatment and sometimes there is a lot of short-term treatment. That number goes up. Like I said, the cost of that exceeded the budget by $1 million that the Member is seeing. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Madam Chair. The income security, there has been an increase due to the downturn of our economy which increases a number of clients accessing income support across the North. They couldn’t find any full-time and part-time seasonal jobs, especially in the mining sector area. There have been some layoffs and their subcontractors as well. That is the information that we received from those industries. From April to November 2011, actual growth was around 3.8 percent, so when you put that into perspective, that is a shortfall of $944,000. That is the very reason why we are here as part of the process. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments. On the list I have Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Yakeleya. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a number of general comments and then I will have questions when I get to each department.

In looking at the big picture, what we are presented with here, I certainly I have to say I have questions about the way that we do our budgeting. I have certainly said it before; I am sure I will say it again. Many of these expenses that are included in this supplementary appropriation, in my mind, are expenses which we could have or should have predicted. Certainly some of them are extraordinary, but I think we tend to underestimate when we estimate our expenses. There is almost a mindset that that is okay. We will lowball the expense number because we can always go back and get more money.

This is our third supplementary appropriation for the 2011-12 budget year. I know that there were some expenses which were not foreseen at the time that this particular budget was developed, things like

changes in the Collective Agreement I think is one perhaps which might have had an impact and couldn’t have been foreseen. The documentation that we got from the Department of Finance indicates that many of these are forced growth expenditures. I look at the information we have and the indications that there has been an upward trend in costs and in usage in almost every area that was identified as forced growth. I think we really, as a government, could have done a better job of budgeting what we were going to encounter as expenses.

I have concerns similar to the ones expressed by my colleague Mr. Yakeleya around the amount of money that we are being required year after year to put into Stanton Territorial Health Authority and the Beaufort-Delta Health Authority. It indicates to me and I think the Minister kind of alluded to it, both Ministers, but we are not budgeting these two health authorities properly. We are consistently underfunding them. We are not evaluating the services that they provide and based on the evaluation then developing a budget that recognizes the costs that they encounter on a day-to-day basis because of the services that they provide. I feel really strongly that I know that the department has done some work in this area, but it is an area where, as a government and as a Department of Health and Social Services, we have to stop sort of starting to do something about it and we have to absolutely do something about it. We need to revise how we budget for these two authorities in particular.

Lastly, this particular supplementary appropriation, the net ask, the net amount of money that we are going to be asked to approve is about $8.2 million. It’s more than that in terms of the total amount of money, and when you add up all the bits and pieces – some of it we are getting from the federal government, some of it is transfers between departments – I’m concerned and it goes to my general feeling that we’re not budgeting properly. After Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, which was done in the last Assembly… I’ll back up. We normally have a reserve fund and at the beginning of the budget year. We say we’re going to place I think it was $15 million aside and we are going to use that as required throughout the budget year when there are cost overruns. After Supplementary Appropriation No. 2, we were in the hole $3.1 million in the reserve, so we spent all of our $10 million or $15 million that was in the reserve and we had gone over by about $3 million.

So we’re now adding another $8.2 million to our reserve fund. So we’re going to be in the hole over $11 million. It almost begs the question why have the reserve, why do we not just leave it at zero because the reserve number really doesn’t mean anything. We spend our reserve funds of $10

million or $15 million and we just carry on and ask for more money and ask for more money.

So, again, I have to question a lot of the expenditures that are in here. If we are constantly allowing departments to overspend, do we really know what we’re spending our money on and are we really getting the programs and services that we think we need. It’s very difficult at the beginning of a budget to say this is what we’re going to spend our money on, but when we get to zero and we have none left, well, we just go and ask for more. So how can we truly evaluate whether or not we’re efficiently and effectively spending our money?

I’ll have specific questions when we get to various departments, but that’s it for now. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I live and work for the day as Finance Minister where we’ll have a session in this House and Ms. Bisaro will say we’ve done a good job on budgeting and that we hit an acceptable range of budgets so that we’ll know that we’ve almost approached as close to perfection probably as we’ll ever get. But in the meantime, what we have here are legitimate requests. The Legislature of course can say no. That is our legal right, but we believe we’ve demonstrated very clearly the need.

I think all the Members that have been through the facilities, and we’ve all been through facilities, would acknowledge that the things we do and the work that we do in health and education and housing and every department that’s asking for money are legitimate. We’re paying for what we get. In fact, we all have stood in this House and in committee meetings, we’ve all heard in our constituencies that there’s need for money, more resources, more programs and we try to manage that. Yes, we set targets for ourselves and we try to meet those, but we also are realistic and come back when we know there are things that have to be funded, in our opinion.

So I appreciate the Member’s comments and hopefully over the next three budget years I’m sure we’ll continue to work on the challenge of coming up with a system that meets the needs of all the Members of the Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General comments. Next I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d just like to add my voice to my colleague’s, Ms. Bisaro. I don’t see these as legitimate if they reflect bad management of the resources that we’ve had for the year. Can I just get confirmed, Madam Chair, what was our reserve? We reviewed it and

established it in the 16th Assembly. Did we establish

it at $10 million, or would the Minister know if it was $15 million? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Madam Chair, it’s $10 million. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

So this negative $11.3 million, that tells me that we’ve more than doubled that, is that correct? Are we now at $22.3 million into supplementary funding? Is that correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I just wanted to establish those numbers to be sure. That is a flag. We did review this quite thoroughly in the 16th Assembly and we

came up with the $10 million very much explicitly and on purpose. My colleagues have already raised many points. Mr. Yakeleya has raised many points and others. I think we’ll hear similar comments as we go department to department. Typically they reflect a lack of action on prevention sides and cutting to the chase on a lot of these issues or improper funding to begin with.

So sticking with general comments there, I think I’ll leave it at that. We need to do better. I don’t agree with the Minister that, yes, this is just a regular part of doing business. To some degree it is and that is why we established a $10 million reserve. So do we tell our departments that anything over that comes out of your existing? You know, what are your priorities? What are you going to give up without sacrificing services or what? But that’s why we’re paying top dollar to our managers and I think we should be able to expect that sort of level of performance. I’ll leave it at that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I appreciate the Member’s comments. There is constant pressure on government to do more and constant pressure in this Assembly, constant pressure from our constituents. I mean, I’ve heard it around the table: let’s add money to pave roads, let’s add money for compassionate travel, let’s add money, let’s build more, let’s do things. We have to make choices and this Legislature has the authority. If they say that we’re not going to spend this money and we’re not going to pay for it, I mean, that’s our choice. We’re saying and we’re making the case here that these are very critical programs and I don’t think it’s bad management. I think there are cost pressures in our system that have to be met. We are attempting to do that. I appreciate the Member’s comments and look forward to the detail. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that response. I don’t disagree with him. There are cases when we need to respond, but there are quite a number of cases, as we’ve heard from the

comments and as we will hear as we go through this, where I think we could have done a better job and we need to start doing a better job. It’s very tough. We’re talking services now. It’s very tough to say no at this point in time when the damage has been done. So that sort of behaviour and allowance perpetuates itself. That’s what I’m talking about.

There are a number of items where I think we could probably find general agreement that we should be doing a better job, but I do accept the points the Minister has made as well. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

No, no comment there. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next on the list I have again Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to I guess restate that the funding that we get here, certainly it’s known from us that there are pressures, there are costs every time you come to a budget. The unforeseeable ones, a good example is the forest fires. We don’t know. We budget a certain amount and we either go over or under.

I have to support the comments from Ms. Bisaro. If we’re not funding the health and social services, Stanton, the Beaufort-Delta, then we need to fund them properly. This is nuts here. Coming back in for another $3 million, come back next time for another $3 million. This is not good. We have to do that, but there’s a business plan process where we add our list to the government to ask for what we want in our communities. This is operational money. This is not infrastructure. This is operational money that goes to provide services to our hospitals and our health care. People expect that.

Mr. Lafferty talked about the downturn in the mining sector. We knew that was coming. People need to get support from the government. Contractors are laying off people. We’ve given out close to a million dollars in income support. The mining sector said they’re doing good and everything for the Northwest Territories, yet they’re laying off a lot of people. What is the mining sector telling us? The government is left holding the bag.

For the $1.7 million for utility costs for NWT Housing Corporation, my goodness, what numbers are they using? They have to come to us and say we need another $1.7 million for utility costs. Something’s not right here. They have to know the utility costs in our small communities. They should be right up to date. They have housing managers, they have district managers. They have to do their jobs.

The Canadian Blood Services also get blood from donators. Why are we spending close to $3 million?

I guess Mr. Bromley brought up some good comments. Twenty-two million dollars. Are we not telling the departments to bring your numbers up to a realistic figure? Are they so used to, so ingrained in their attitude that we’ll just get a supplement from the government? We’ll make them feel bad, so we have to support them. This affects our people in our communities. Is that a cultural attitude within the government for getting this up?

Look, we’re at $22 million. Someone’s not doing their job. That’s what I’m seeing. We’ll go through it and probably approve everything. Rest assured they will come back again with another supp, different day, different story, but really we need to have a good talk about we’re going to fund Stanton properly and Beaufort-Delta properly. Let’s do a proper job on it. Let’s do a good job. Give them the money if they need it. Or the Hay River or Fort Smith, those boards. Just give them the good money. Do a good job.

The Minister talks about other needs in the community. We’ve been asking that for a long, long time. It takes a long time to get. I guess that’s my sense of the supp. Like I said, if we were a private business we would be broke. We would be out of business. Taxpayers are paying for this no matter what.

So go through the motions. Go through the supp. You know what? It’s going to get approved. What are we approving, that it’s okay to have these kinds of numbers come before us again? These are operational numbers. I can understand the medevacs. It’s important. We pick up the cost. I’m from the Sahtu; we don’t have an all-weather road. Medevacs are very important to my people’s lives. I understand the high cost of it.

I think I’ll leave the rest for details. These are just my general comments thinking about what’s before us right now.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Any response, Mr. Miltenberger?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just quickly, we’ve had this discussion before and there are two basic approaches that I’ve lived through in government. In the old days your current year budget was always based on how much you spent the previous year. Government would spend all their money and at year end they would drive up their budgets and get funding starting that year based on that figure. It was an unsustainable pattern of constant, uncontrollable growth. The Legislature said this is not the way to do business, we cannot control government expenditures, we do not have enough say. So we’re going to set these tough, lean budgets and if they want more money, they’re going to have to come back and justify it to the Legislature as a way to make sure that there was

debate and control, and that we had that kind of say over how the taxpayers’ dollars are being spent. Now there’s from some Members a push to just go back and whatever they spend, we’ll give it to them and if they spend more, we’ll just keep adding it to the budget. We don’t have the oversight. We won’t have it here except once here, when we do the main estimates. That is an important discussion because our cost to government is not getting any cheaper. What is the most appropriate way to get checks and balances as we go forward? What involvement does this Legislature want? Once a year at main estimates and you hope the numbers are right or you come back and justify.

I believe the Minister of Health would like to make a comment, if that’s okay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is talking about the need to reform the governance. Without reforming our governance and operating great parts of health and social services as one system could go a long way to resolving the solution. We have looked at our audit and in the Auditor General’s report they talk about a lot of the cost pressures and how the various authorities do the same programs, the same programs that we deliver to those in a different way. There is savings to be had in the area of putting one system together under procurement. Also in the various aspects of finance where a lot of the back office stuff that is driving the costs at Stanton, for example, may not have to be necessarily housed in the hospital. Where it comes at a premium cost of anything housed in a hospital, because of the nature of how we have to keep the hospitals and have the sick people in there as well. Some of those things are something we’re looking at as a department, and when I referred to having discussions with the various Joint Leadership members from across the various health authorities, we talked about that, on how we could balance out the costs and even reduce costs by reforming the governance at this time.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to pick up on where some of the comments from my previous colleagues were touching base on. I have to concur that, and I’m sure the Minister and his team and the Ministers on the floor are aware that some of us back here as Regular Members are business owners or have been business owners for many years. Although this is probably my first supplemental appropriation in terms of an ask, I don’t think we’re a stranger or I’m a stranger in terms of the markings of what I see here as something very unique. It’s something you

don’t see in business, the type of operation that if this was a business, as the Member for Sahtu indicated, you would be bankrupt.

The thing is I’m hearing from the Minister lean and control and doing so in a way to come back to make sure we spend the right money, but the reality is, this repeats itself time and time again. This is not the first time. I’ve gone back and looked at the history of some of the appropriation asks and a lot of numbers repeat themselves almost to the penny or percentage of the budget. The time and energy that’s taken out of House business to do this year after year after year in terms of preparation for this, I just can’t imagine how much time and energy it is just to get it to the floor here for discussion. It would be mindboggling.

In the world of business we work with mostly a zero-based budget, which really is you work in terms of real dollars, what it’s going to cost you at the end of the day. As mentioned, we’re over $22 million already into supplementary for the year. We’re not talking a small amount of money here; we’re talking a large amount of money. I tend to disagree that this is a lean and mean approach to doing prudent investments for the people of the Northwest Territories. I think it’s far from it. I think it’s a bit of a cloak and dagger, so to speak, where we’re pretending that we’re lean and mean where really we’ve got an endless pot of money that we can come back to time and time again. I think this is not the type of business that I should be supporting as a Member or the people at large.

That said, I’ll have some details for sure, but just from the general comments point of view, when we look at – as the Members for Sahtu and Frame Lake indicated – the Department of Health and Social Services for Stanton and the Beaufort-Delta, if this was a one-time-only I wouldn’t speak about this, but this is a repeated event that happens almost yearly. You can almost set your clock to this. I’m thinking where are we going wrong as government in not making those predictions, or where are we not spending the money properly, or where are we not investing properly.

What makes me even more concerned, and being a health care professional myself, when I hear comments such as this amount will be fully offset by accumulated operating surpluses in other health and social services authorities, which makes me beg to believe that programs may have suffered. That has been quantified. The Auditor General last year in her report clearly identified lack of programs in the areas of diabetes. I’m sure the Member for Sahtu will agree. He brings up diabetes all the time, how the programs weren’t offered. Here we’re basically telling the people of the Northwest Territories we’ll find the money because we didn’t offer all the programs. It’s been documented. I’m not making this up. This has been right from the

Auditor General’s report and it’s a tabled document in this House.

With that first question, with this type of mindset, to the Minister, should we be concerned that this is a culture that we keep going and saying we’ll find the money elsewhere at the sacrifice of the programs?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. On a comparative basis if you look across the country, let’s pick one of my favourite provinces just given her size and the magnitude and complexity of the problems they’re dealing with, they’re spending over 45 cents on every dollar on health alone. In this jurisdiction we’re spending about 34 cents of every dollar on health and social services. If you tack on health or tack on all the other social programs, we are spending over 65 cents on every dollar. The growth in social programs is a concern because it limits our ability, but on a comparative basis I would say we are managing ourselves. Maybe not as well as the Member would indicate or see.

One of the challenges we have, of course, as a government is, yes, we can raise taxes, but over the last number of years we’ve chosen not to just because of the economic conditions. Businesses raise prices. They raise taxes. Drugs are one of our biggest costs and it rises and goes right through the roof. Those are costs that we have no choice on. Business can drive their revenues in a way that we can’t. I think we should keep that in mind as well.

This is a good discussion to have about are we doing things right, are we right-sized, are we managing ourselves correctly. I look forward to the discussion, because we’ve been having it for a number of years. This is more than a rubber-stamp, as the Member said. This will be approved because they make sense, and when we stand up and say are we going to cut these programs to our constituents or do we find the money to fund them, we’ve been saying find the money to fund them.

We’re managing ourselves. We’re one of the best run jurisdictions in the country, second probably only to Alberta and possibly the Yukon, in our debt-to-GDP and any other number of indicators, as we’ve demonstrated to you. It’s not like we’re profligate spendthrifts or blowing money like drunken sailors. These are incredibly important initiatives. We struggle trying to meet all these needs and we say no a tremendous amount of the time as well. It is a challenge, Madam Chair, and I appreciate the feedback from the Members as we try to improve how we do this. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I’m appreciative that we’re not drunken sailors and it’s a sobering thought that we’re not.

Again, I don’t want to get into a statistical rampage with the Minister here. Again, I mean, stats-wise they say 42 cents of every tax dollar in Canada is being spent in health, and it’s clear that the NWT is spending well under that. The Minister says 34 cents. I believe that number is relatively lower. If we factor some of the pertinence of real health care, I think the number is probably closer to 27 percent. That said, I’ll have more questions with respect to details in the Health area.

One of the other areas I want to bring up is obviously recurring costs that we see. If you look at from last year’s supplementary to this year’s supplementary, when it comes down to the NWT Housing Corporation, in the opening comments of the Minister, $1.739 million is being mentioned here in the opening comments. This is a sobering number that almost mirrors what we saw last year around the same time of a similar nature. Again, going back to forced growth or making good predictions in budgetary terms, how can numbers like this keep repeating themselves time and time again? Why aren’t they part of the regular budgeting process? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The main extenuating circumstance with the Housing Corporation, of course, is the significant diminishment of funding from CMHC. They made a determination a number of years ago now that they’re getting out of funding O and M costs for public and social housing, and they’re doing that. The latest, I think, cut was over $900,000. We’re not shutting the houses down, so we carry the cost as long as we can. The Housing Corporation has been asked to fund that from within, but there comes a point where it’s not sustainable. We can’t afford to do that.

The other thing is when you look at our utilities, it’s assumed that the Housing Corporation gets the same rate as ordinary homeowners when, in fact, the Housing Corporation pays a full government rate on all the utilities, and in many communities – and we’ve had this discussion before – it’s a cost-plus program. When you’re driving community services, because there’s a subsidized rate for the residents, if you need more money in that program area, you raise the cost, because the Housing Corporation and the government pay the full rate yet your own citizens will be protected.

There are some very clear extenuating circumstances when it comes to housing. I’m not sure whether Minister McLeod wanted to add more to that or not.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister Miltenberger explained it very well. CMHC declining funding is probably one of the biggest drivers. Another one is the fact that we

don’t collect enough revenue from our tenants. If we collected the amount of revenue that was due to Housing, then we wouldn’t have to keep coming back for the $1.7 million. Housing normally has been very good at funding it from within, but with the declining funding, again, it’s getting more and more difficult to try and find this money. We’ve actually had to bail out a particular LHO because they were unable to pay their utility bill at their local hamlet office because they weren’t generating enough revenue.

These are challenges we face and we’re looking, as part of the Shelter Policy review, at the idea of raising what we charge tenants for utilities. We’re faced with challenges there again. We’ve got 768 seniors that pay no rent, but yet those units have to be maintained. If we collected even a minimum amount of rent for those 768 units, that might help offset this again.

We have challenges all around, as the Minister said. We try not to pass these on to the residents as much as we can. That’s why we end up having to eat a lot of these costs. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on the list I have Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d just like to reiterate comments made by our fellow Members here at the table in regard to the contribution funding to the department of the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority.

I did attend their AGM this past spring, or this winter here, and they did mention that it is something that’s recurring. As much as we have pressures and stresses put on Members and this government to look for funding and try to find funding to offset the deficit that this department goes through and these authorities go through, we also have to look at that we don’t only represent the patients, the clients, the people that are being affected by this, but we’re also representing the staff in these authorities who are given these pressures and stressors to try to find money to cut from their departments and find ways to offset this deficit.

I think we know what’s wrong and it’s something that’s been discussed. At our last Beaufort-Delta leadership meeting our Minister of Health and Social Services heard it. He heard it from not only our leaders in Inuvik, but he heard it from our leaders in Tsiigehtchic, Aklavik, Fort McPherson; you know, the communities on the coast. I think our next plan of action is to take those suggestions and put them into place, looking at our physicians. There’s a lot of money that goes into all the locums that go up there that do contribute to the deficit as well as the board structure. We need better input from our community leaders rather than decisions made in this House. The people that are there in the front lines and working in that authority, the ones that are getting stressed out because of the

financial drawbacks that they are facing. It does become a money issue, but we also have to make sure that we’re not exhausting our staff and putting undue pressure on them, so that they can go out and do their jobs and provide the services that are needed. As the Minister stated, it does provide acute care services in that region and outside of Yellowknife it does provide a lot to not only the Beaufort-Delta region but also to the Sahtu. I mean, there are a lot more people in the territory that go through that authority rather than just the Beaufort-Delta, and that needs to be looked at as well.

It is a deficit that we’ve seen for the past few years, and as much as the deficit does affect the programs, it also has a strong effect on the staff there. I know that the Minister did get a lot of recommendations from our last Beaufort-Delta leadership meeting and I think those need to be addressed with this government so that next year we’re not looking at those. Or that we make the appropriate budget item changes in the new fiscal year so that we’re not looking at this again, and that other authorities who are in surpluses can use those monies for their programs, and that we’re looking at the patterns that the Beaufort-Delta authority is going through and adjust those while we can.

I think there’s some good discussion around here today, and I think we all know that the next steps are to find solutions to those, not only in this House but with our leaders in the communities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Minister Miltenberger, did you wish to comment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

No, Madam Chair. I just appreciate the Member’s comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you to the Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Sitting here listening to the general comments of my colleagues, there are issues with the way we spend money. I hear what the Minister is saying, that if we over-budget, then everybody will just make sure they live up to that expectation and spend that much money. If we under-budget, then we have an exercise like we have here today, where we have to come back and ask for additional money and it has to be rationalized. It has to go through Cabinet. It has to go through the FMB process, et cetera. However, I have not yet seen or heard of a good explanation for why the Deh Cho and Hay River health authorities are operating with such surpluses and why the Inuvik and Stanton ones are operating in such deficits. We just hear things that are vague like, oh, those other two are acute care facilities. I want something more substantial than that. That is just kind of a, yeah, that is a given. Those two health authorities are incurring costs associated with acute care, but we need a little bit more in-depth analysis than that

because it doesn’t feel or look right. It doesn’t look and feel right to me when the Hay River Health Authority has to give up its surplus to the Stanton Territorial Health Authority when we haven’t got $20,000 to operate a handivan in Hay River. We haven’t got enough money for a women’s shelter but we are giving back millions in surplus from our operations at our local health authority. That doesn’t feel right. It doesn’t look right. I have never really had an adequate explanation of why that is, but I sit on the Social Programs so I will be continuing to press on that.

…(inaudible)…dollar values that are listed on this sheet. They are high. The Minister says we don’t spend money like drunken sailors. When Mr. Dolynny was agreeing with him, I was saying yes, we do. It has been so long since we have gone to a zero-based look at how we spend our money, we just vigorously guard the status quo. If it is something we already spend money on, we want to keep spending money on it. How often do we sit and look at how much money we spend and what do we get for the money we spend? How much effort do we put into that exercise? Honestly, with all due respect to the folks in the bureaucracy, what incentive do they have to figure out ways to do things differently or more cost effectively? After all, whose money is it? It is really none of our money. None of us are really close enough to the expenditures that we feel like we’re opening our wallets and putting the money out there. Where we feel it is when we have a voice in this House to bring forward the aspirations of our constituents and our communities and we are constantly told no we can’t do that because we have to keep doing things the same old way.

What incentive is there for folks that are on the front line or in the bureaucracy to figure out a way of doing things more cost effectively in a money saving kind of a way? There is none. Can we implement a program where we reward people generously in the public service that come up with a smarter, more effective, efficient way of doing something? I mean, like a big reward. I mean an incentive kind of reward. It’s not their job right now. We don’t actually work at that level so it’s hard for us to sit in some ways on the outside looking in and saying this is how it should be done, but I do have a sense that we do guard doing things the way we always did them. We never take an objective step back from that and say okay, the budget of this government is an enormous amount of money for the people we have here in the territory and for what we have to undertake. Is there something else or a different way we like to spend that so it could encompass more of the things we would like to do?

The other problem with doing that or looking at doing things more cost effectively, and I looked at things on this paper, on this supplementary appropriation, like the 49 residents of ours that are

in care, 49 clients for $5.3 million. I don’t believe it. I don’t believe that we could not take care of those NWT residents in the Northwest Territories and keep that $5.3 million, actually do it better than they can do it anywhere in southern Canada for $5.3 million a year. We don’t spend any time or effort analyzing that idea. We just keep writing the cheques, sending them to Alberta. When do we stop ourselves and say look, how can we do a better job? I just don’t get a sense there is a lot of that.

The other problem with doing that on some activities is that the largess of this government is kind of what makes this territory go around. Do we spend too much money on medical travel? Well, there is all the economy that is created with that activity. People fly. I don’t think there are just a few people that are benefitting from that; a lot of the activities of this government have the spin-off effect of creating a lot of economy that keeps turning over and over here in the North.

Again, there is not a lot of incentive for looking at the largess of government and figuring out a way to do things more efficiently or more cost effectively, because as soon as we do that, then I guess we are taking the money out of somebody’s hands. We employ somebody who… It just keeps turning over and over. So it all comes down to priorities. What are our priorities and can we afford our priorities within the current structure of how we do things?

I guess I am still an idealist. I am still optimistic that we can do things better and that we wouldn’t be seeing these kinds of numbers coming back here. It takes analysis and hard work and I will leave it at that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member has articulated the difficulty at this level trying to manage a system worth a billion for 42,000 people spread over 1.3 or so million square kilometres.

We do, in fact, and have over the years attempted many times to reform government and have reformed government at different junctures, strength at two levels. In the beginning of the 16th Assembly, the government of the day wanted to re-profile $150 million I think it was, or $75 million for savings and some cuts. There was a huge cry over that. You look at things that are dear to people’s hearts. You talked about board reform, supp health where people want to do things with good intentions but you get caught up in those types of circumstances. It is difficult.

We have, over the years, repatriated. That is why we have places like Trailcross and TTC here. The Member for Hay River will remember the effort it went through to get the unit built in Hay River to

repatriate adults from the South that could be served up North. The number of children and adults in care has gone back up in the southern jurisdictions. As the Minister indicated, some have very specific, highly complex needs that we can’t meet up here. Others – the Member is right – we have to keep monitoring. If there are ones that we can build another facility and repatriate, yes, that is definitely an initiative we have to pay attention to. These things, though, take time. It is not an easy business that we are in, but, once again, I appreciate the Member’s comments. She and I have been labouring in the field a long time here. Prior to that, Social Services together as well, so it is a long, slow process and road. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I have nobody further on the list. Are we done with general comments? Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

General comments are concluded. We will go to detail. We will bypass pages 1 and 2 and go to page 3. Members, we are on page 3, Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012, Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $128,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Expenditures on behalf of Members, not previously authorized, $349,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Okay. Total department, not previously authorized, $477,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Okay. Are we agreed we’re concluded the Legislative Assembly?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Alright. We’ll move on to the Executive. Executive, operations expenditures, Ministers’ offices, not previously authorized, negative $257,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Okay, we are agreed. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $257,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Okay. Page 5, Human Resources, operations expenditures, human resource strategy and policy, not previously authorized, $123,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

We are agreed. Okay. Employee services, not previously authorized, $617,000. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Going back to what had been posted in previous Assemblies in terms of what’s been tabled in terms of supplementary in that area, that number keeps recurring time and time again in the tune of a little over a half a million dollars year in and year out for supplemental. Can the Minister, again, we talk about forced growth and predicting dental needs. I mean, there’s a certain pattern. If we’re not growing our employee base by that much and we know that there’s a delicate balance between full-time and part-time workers, aren’t we able to make better predictions and then not be having to come back time and time again with roughly the same amount of money all the time, Madam Chair?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have to agree with the Member’s comments that this program area does see growth year to year. We have provided some forced growth to it in previous years, but it is a demand-driven program. One of the big reasons for the increased demand recently is the new collective agreements did increase the amount of benefits that employees were able to access. So that’s why you’re seeing this amount right now. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Kalgutkar. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

No further questions. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Okay, any other questions on employee services? Okay, employee services, not previously authorized, $617,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Total department, human resources, not previously authorized, $740,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Alright, Members, we will move on to page 6, Finance, operations expenditures, deputy minister’s office, not previously authorized, $2.082 million. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is an example of the sorts of management we could be doing to avoid these sorts of ongoing costs. I’m not satisfied with the earlier discussion, nor would I like to see this just provided in the budget on a routine basis. These costs are nothing short of ridiculous in this day and age. We insist on subsidizing energy costs and utility costs more and more, rather than dealing with them and reducing the costs. This is $2 million plus, Madam Chair, for the two items and I understand that the FMB has

asked the Housing Corporation to report on how they are managing their energy costs.

Unfortunately this is a reflection of the government as a whole. Our opportunities to address these pass by year after year and we keep paying through the nose. Fortunately some of our residents and some of our businesses are finally moving out on their own and removing themselves from the system, providing their own energy, which of course makes our costs even greater and less efficient. So that is a big question, but the heating fuel, $600,000-plus, electricity $1 million-plus, these are big sums of money, Madam Chair, and they could easily put in infrastructure such as, for example, distributed energy systems and a distributed energy grid whereby people could start contributing to the grid and reducing costs.

There’s also very, very little that we’re doing to encourage energy conservation and so on, provide alternative, but cheaper forms of energy. I just don’t see the commitment of this government to that and I see a willingness to continue to just pay the piper on these things. So I guess, you know, what can we say? We can only bang our heads against a brick wall so much and I’m willing to butt my head even more this time around. So I’ll leave it at that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ve always heard tell that when you’re banging your head against a brick wall the one good thing about it is that it feels so good when you stop.

I appreciate the Member’s concern. We have, as the Member knows, very few new dollars in the budget for alternative energy. We had $60 million. Our fiscal circumstances are such that after the end of this coming month of March that money will be concluded, sunsetted, and we’re now in a position of trying to find some money to continue the many initiatives we have underway in terms of conservation of energy efficiencies, alternate energy, biomass, wind, sun, solar, all those type of things, construction standards, incentives for people to be more energy efficient.

So I appreciate the Member’s concern, but in the meantime these are costs that we just can’t flip a switch and avoid. It’s infrastructure change that is going to take more time than we have before us in the next few weeks. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Bromley, anything further?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Well, Madam Chair, I’ve been elected to not necessarily bang my head against the wall, but I have to try until I’m no longer in this position.

The Minister says no, we’re just going to keep doing this. That’s just not good enough. We’re struggling to get an increase in our debt limit and I guarantee that this investment would pay back big time, pay back periods of whatever, five to eight years. How long have we been doing this? We know this is going to continue until we’re completely out of federal dollars, 2034 or ‘37, whatever it is, and how long have we been doing this? This just makes sense to invest these dollars into enjoying these gains and reducing our cost of living for our people.

So I just don’t accept that argument, and meanwhile we talk about taking on big new projects that are incredibly expensive, hundreds of millions of dollars with extremely modest returns, if any. The returns are conditional on other big things happening that are not going to happen, or little evidence that they’re going to happen. So I will be watching to see what we do at the end of this fiscal year and the beginning of the next. I think this is an improper use of funds and it’s our responsibility if we don’t take advantage of these opportunities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would submit that we have to be able to do both in this time of transition. We can’t stop heating the buildings we currently have and put all that money into something that’s going to take a number of years to put into place. So we have to do both.

I agree with the Member that just doing what we’re doing is not sustainable, which is why we’ve invested all the money we have to date. I was going to ask Minister McLeod if he wanted to talk about some of the efforts that the Housing Corporation is making to control their costs, promote energy efficiency, collect rents and all these other good things, with your indulgence, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. Housing Corporation obviously recognizes that we have to cut our costs and is listening to some of the comments made by the Member in the past and some of the advice that he’s given on going to more multi-unit type facilities so that we can cut back on the heating. We’re upgrading and replacing a lot of older units with more energy-efficient ones. We’re trying to be more energy conscious in our renovations. Energy-efficient fixtures, there are LHOs that are replacing a lot of their incandescent lights. There’s LHOs that are replacing a lot of their toilets with low-flow. Those seem to be working really well. I know of one in particular where the return on that and the water consumption has actually gone down by quite a bit.

We’re doing what we can. Obviously we don’t like to be in this position where we have to come back for money again. I point out the fact that had we collected a portion of the rent or revenue that was due us, then we wouldn’t have to be coming back looking for more money to offset some of the utility costs.

The utility costs, unfortunately, are going up, but I can assure the Member, and I think I’ve assured him in the past that we are constantly on the lookout for ways that we can improve the energy efficiency of our units and the amount of electricity and fuel that they use, because it’s very high. An estimated $20.7 million will be spent on utility costs for public housing in 2011-2012 and $7.2 million in heating fuel, $7 million in electricity, and $6.5 million in water and sanitation. It’s a huge cost driver to the NWT Housing Corporation.

Again, we try not to pass those costs on to the tenants as much as we can, but we’re getting to be in a position where we’re going to have to, it doesn’t answer the Member’s question as to what are we doing.

As much as he thinks that we’re sitting idly by and just coming to the trough every year, it’s not the case. Having worked in the housing industry for 23 years, going from back then to what I see today, the improvement is night and day. There’s still a lot of work to be done and we’ll continue to plug along and make sure that we design as much energy efficiency into our units as we can.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Bromley, I’ll put you back on the list. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. The beautiful thing about being a Regular Member is that there are times we’ll have differing points of view and sometimes I have that with the Member for Weledeh. In this case I agree with him 100 percent. I just want to make sure that’s on the record.

Taking that one step further with respect to this amount of money and looking at the breakdown that we see here, the breakdown I want to make reference to is just the electricity component itself. We’re seeing a variance percent here of about 15 percent in terms of a supplemental, which is quite a bit higher than the rest of the utilities. Again, the Minister made reference to CMHC and stuff, but really we’re talking about a supplementation of $1.7 million here.

I want to focus my question around that 15 percent variance and the reason why I say that is if one has to go through a lot of the old Hansards and look at some of the comments made by certain Ministers or the Minister of Finance, we’re hearing that the electricity rates being used by the end user from the Housing Corporation has been relatively constant

or consistent, I think is what nomenclature has been used. As a Regular Member, if I’m hearing that if the consumption has been relatively constant, if we use that as a variable in the equation and we know that the government pays market rates and it’s subsidized through the residential power for these housing authorities, somehow this math doesn’t make sense because we know that electricity rates haven’t risen by 15 percent in the 2010-2011 budget year. They’ve gone up somewhat; I don’t know that percentage off the top of my head. So I guess if usage is constant and the rates are slightly high, how is it that that percentage could be so high? Mathematically there’s something missing in that equation. If the Minister could maybe clarify that and shed some light on that, that would definitely help me appreciate and understand the math here a little bit better.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I can give the Member some numbers and if they don’t work, I’ll turn it over to Mr. Kalgutkar.

For a territorial average the budget base rate of power is 53.91 cents per kilowatt. The 2011-2012 rate of cost is 69.72 cents, which is a 15.81 cent variance or 22.617 percent. So there is a difference between what they are budgeted for and what the cost actually is; what they have in their budget.

Maybe I’ll ask Mr. Kalgutkar. I notice you have that look that you want more information. I’ll ask Mr. Kalgutkar maybe to speak further to this.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister did state it correctly. The base rate that the Housing Corporation currently has in its budget was based on 2006-2007 rates. That was the last time we gave them a funding increase for utilities. The rates have seen some growth since then. As the Minister said, the average rate for the 2011-2012 fiscal year is around 69.72 cents per kilowatt hour. So there was an increase of about 23 percent since the 2006-2007 adjustment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Kalgutkar. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m not going to question the math on the base rate but again this number hasn’t been negotiated previous to coming down to the House today. I would have appreciated having that in previous discussion on this, if possible. That said, have these numbers for base rates been published that are accessible for Members and the general public?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize if that information never got there. We were working over the weekend and fired this in to your folks. It’s only Monday and we’ve been in the House and in meetings ever since everybody convened Monday. We did send this in as soon as we had it ready.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. We did receive this document. I’m not sure, but I think Mr. Dolynny was asking if this perhaps could be made public, this information. Would you like to clarify, Mr. Dolynny?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Again, part two of my question was exactly that. Is this information or can this information be made available to the general public to see some of the baseline numbers that the Housing Corporation or even our government are using when we’re talking base rates? We know there are lots of rider rates out there. The power rate system is very complicated, even though I know past Assemblies have tried to make this more streamlined and I give them credit for doing so, but it is still very confusing. The question is: Can this information be made public or available so that people can follow the map when they see this information presented?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you very much. Next on my list is Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to follow up a little bit and I appreciate Mr. Dolynny’s questions there. It all helps. I’d just like to first of all confirm that did I hear it’s 69.72 cents is the average per kilowatt hour for 2011-2012? I just want to get that right. Is that for across the NWT?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is the average rate across the Northwest Territories that the Housing Corporation would pay. The Housing Corporation as a government agency would not pay the subsidized rate of power; they would pay the full cost.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you very much for that. So I just want to get back, the Minister of the Housing Corporation also made some comments a little bit earlier and I want to say that, and I’m tending to talk about the bigger picture here, so I want to acknowledge that the Housing Corporation has actually done quite a number of things in the area of energy efficiency and so on.

What is happening here is they are sort of at the mercy, as are all ratepayers, of what systems are available in our communities across the Northwest

Territories. They are also in a very important position, being the Housing Corporation, because they are a big customer so they can influence those systems and they have the opportunity and the responsibility for influencing those systems. I think in establishing, for example, the EGH-80 standard, they’re contributing to that. I want to acknowledge that and I’m talking about us as a government and how what we do has that system influence within which the Housing Corporation has to operate.

I just want to throw that perspective out there and also perhaps just ask: When we can expect that the Housing Corporation will come forward with their energy management plan to the FMB?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll ask Mr. Aumond to give you the specific date where the request was made for those plans.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Mr. Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe the Housing Corporation was asked to come back to the Financial Management Board prior to the finalization of the 2013-2014 business plans, which would be in August.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. Last point, I think maybe I got the wording wrong. I think it’s a report on how they are managing their energy costs rather than an energy management plan. Would there be an opportunity for committee to see that report and perhaps comment on it?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll go to Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. Any opportunity we have to sit down with committee and get their input on how we can conduct our business, how we can improve our business would always be most welcome and if we can, I’m sure we’ll have opportunity between now and business planning process to sit down with committee and get their input. I think it’s something that we would be wise to do before we make our submissions for our next year’s planning.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Bromley, you are done? All right. Committee, we are on page 6, deputy minister’s office, not previously authorized, $2.082 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Total department, not previously authorized, $2.082 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Page 7, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, public safety, not previously authorized, $85,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Total department, not previously authorized, $85,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Page 8, Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $28,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Total department, not previously authorized, $28,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Department of Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $1.971 million. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m just going to pick up a little bit where our Member for Sahtu was talking about the blood products from Canadian Blood Services and the projected shortfall. I know there’s confidentiality issues here that I want to make sure that we maintain as a high priority here in the questions and answers. Is there some predictability in these numbers moving forward? Or maybe if the Minister could maybe shed a little light on it. Because of the nature of the dollar amount, is there any predictability that we can use in terms of our planned budgeting versus having to go to supplemental for an item or specific items like this? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a very small number, as the Minister indicated, of patients making use of this service, and I’m not in a position to have any idea of the circumstance of the patients. Given the small number, we want to be very careful about any kind of discussion of that nature, but I will ask the Minister if he has any idea in terms of this blood service cost, whether we can project further down the road in the coming years so it’s not a supp but is built into the budget. It would tie into the condition of the patients, for the longevity of the patients and those types of things that I’m not in a position to speak to nor do I think should we in this House. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. As I indicated, in the Canadian Blood Service and the cost, the cost of blood and plasma protein

products is very volatile, so this huge shift is just a matter of two clients only. I think that initially when we were budgeting this, there was one client receiving some blood services. There are a lot of clients receiving blood services, but with this particular plasma protein there is one client receiving it. We got an additional two clients and then the amount went up immensely at that point.

This is something that would be hard to budget. This product keeps the people alive, Madam Chair. They have no option but to continue to receive this product from the Canadian Blood Service or the patients receiving this service would not be able to survive.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ve got a couple of questions on this page. I do want to comment specifically on the cost itemized, the $3.335 million that’s itemized for contributions to the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority and Stanton Territorial Health Authority.

I spoke about this in my general comments, but I would like to know at this point, and the Minister kind of gave a bit of an answer previously, that we’re sort of working to fix this, but having been here for four years, I’ve been hearing this for awhile now. I’d like to know, at this point, whether or not I can get any specific comments or specific remarks as to just exactly what we are doing to try and properly fund these two health authorities. Because I think, from what I’m gathering, everybody in this room believes that we’re not properly funding these two health authorities, and what are we doing to get ourselves on the right track so we do fund them properly and we don’t have to move this money around, we don’t have to ask for supplementary amounts of money every year. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Just to let the Members know here, we are in health services programs for the $4.79 million. We’re just in that category, so I’ll turn the response over to Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are basically two solutions, two long-term solutions that would address this issue. The first is amending the authority funding to address the structural deficits. This being addressing this with what is happening. Like I indicated previously to some questions was that we have to move some of the costs right now. The budget for some of the costs like a lot of the medical travel and doctors’ services to the Stanton in order to cover it. Right now the health and social services authorities that have the budget do end up sending their individual clients to Stanton. Stanton then picks up the cost for those individuals. In order to make that change we would have to essentially transfer those budgets. Keep the governance structure but just

transfer more of the budget numbers from the other health and social services authorities to Yellowknife.

Also, some of the costs of employee benefits, which was substantially underfunded. Those are specific to the Stanton Health Authority as well.

The other big item that the department can do is reforming the governance to support the operating as one system. It is to bring all of the costs into basically the centre. To have an example would be doctors and possibly nurses, to bring in those costs under one roof. That has opposition, obviously. Right now what’s happening is we are operating a system where the health authorities are bringing locums in in Yellowknife, or the Stanton or YK Health and Social Services Authority is also providing some of the doctors to a couple of the communities, but reforming governance would be more than just having that cost centralized. We could also have the cost of procurement centralized. A lot of the finance and then a lot of the back office, as it is often referred to, can also be moved into a more central system. Now, that doesn’t mean actually relocating these individual employees to Yellowknife. The reform governance would be done in conjunction with the other health and social services authorities. If procurement was centralized, then the operation and the budgeting of that procurement would work under one system, not necessarily in one location. The same with finance. There are efficiencies to be had there, there’s no question about it.

As we go out to the communities we ask the communities what they think of the idea. At the Joint Leadership Council we have some opposition and some in favour, and at the community level, when we went to the Beaufort-Delta we did have some opposition and some in favour of it. Some people thought it was creative, that if we had operated one system that we’d be able to better manage our budgeting and our expenditures.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for the explanation. I heard an awful lot of we can and we could and we might and some things that are recognized that we have to do. There’s a lot of if we do this and if we do that. I guess my question is, we recognize, I think, as Members that there are things that must be done. The Minister has elaborated on quite a number of things that need to be done. For Stanton and for the Beaufort-Delta authorities, we know that their budgets need to be amended and need to be changed. My question was more to are we doing that. What are we doing? When are we going to have it done? I didn’t hear a lot of definite actions in the Minister’s answer.

In terms of reforming governance, you know, of the procurement, the back office administration, a lot of that has been in the works for awhile, I think, and I certainly agree that amending governance is

definitely going to take a bit of work. Not everybody is going to agree right off the bat, but when push comes to shove, if we, as the funder, don’t have the money and we have to create these economies of scale in order to properly fund health authorities, then we may have to make the hard decisions and say this is how it will be. Not all authorities will agree, but at some point in time we have to, as a government and as Members, bite the bullet and make the hard decisions. I’m not so sure that I heard that in the Minister’s answer. I guess I would like to sort of ask the same question again.

I realize there are things that need to be done. The Minister has mentioned a whole bunch of them, but are those things happening now or are they simply things that we want to do at some point in the future? If that’s the case, when are we going to see some major change and some efficiencies in the way we fund these two health authorities? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

There is a need to do some consultation. Right now, as a department and as senior management to the department, we feel that this is the way to go. We need to reform governance in order to better take control of the costs. However, there is a requirement for a consultation.

I don’t think anybody that is working in the regions with the authorities or MLAs representing various authorities would be too pleased if the department proceeded with reforming governance without doing proper consultation with the health and social services authorities. Health and social services authorities are usually made up of groups of people that come from all of the communities and represent the people and some of the community governments.

We don’t want to rush into this and then have everybody in opposition. We would like to sit down with the authorities and do a proper consultation, to visit them in their home communities and discuss the possibility of trying to reform the governance so that we are trying to take control over the costs. We want to do this. We don’t want to rush into this without consultation. Right now we are at that stage. We have had the initial discussions with some communities. We have had some consultation in Joint Leadership Council.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Madam Chair, I appreciate the need for consultation. I’m glad that that is part of the Minister’s plan, but I’ve been hearing about these potential changes for over a year now. I’m concerned that we’re going to talk ourselves to death and we’re going to be continuing to spend and need infusions of three and four million dollars into these two health authorities for several more years. With some concerted effort, I think, with a bit more concentration on a couple of changes, we

could be saving some money and creating a much more efficient system than what we have now.

I guess I would like to ask the Minister finally, when can we expect to see some kind of change in terms of consultation. How long is it going to go on? When does he expect that we might come to the end of this consultation? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Madam Chair, we had hoped to visit all of the communities in our initial meetings at the community. When we go into a community, we meet with the community leaders, the organizations and the Aboriginal organizations, and we also have a public meeting. We’re hoping that we’ll conclude all of the meetings, which I am actually doing myself. So we’re hoping that, weather permitting and everything else, we will complete our community meetings and I guess what we are referring to as a consultation in the community by the end of this summer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Madam Chair, I have one other question on this page. It has to do with the contribution to the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority for the shortfall and the retirement plan for the employees of that health authority. I can’t remember when, but I am sure it is probably three years ago now that there was some discussion about bringing those employees into the GNWT public service. I realize that their contract for employment is different than what the GNWT’s is. I would like to know whether or not there is any thought about doing that in the near future. The longer we wait, the more it costs us. I think it’s time that we make the change and bring all the employees of all of our health authorities into one union and one contract. Is there any schedule for when this might happen? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. This item could cost as much as now they say $10 million. It is a significant investment, so where we have a list of our priorities, it doesn’t rank up near the top of all of the things we need to spend that money on. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Madam Chair, I just have a quick follow-up. I would ask the Minister to do a true cost-benefit analysis of the cost to have these employees in a different union. Sure, it may be $10 million. I think three years ago it was probably half that. Have we looked at the cost to have employees in a different union with the inability for them to transfer from one authority to another to help out with gaps in another health authority or another hospital?

I think we need to seriously look and evaluate the whole picture, not just the initial cost to pay them out but what are we going to gain in efficiencies. I

think there will be something to be gained. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Madam Chair, we will commit to take a look at making sure we are updated in terms of the work we have done and if there is some full-cost accounting factors that we haven’t quantified. But it comes down to, at this particular juncture, just significant ongoing cost to bring them into the system that is prohibiting us from moving forward because of our fiscal circumstance. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next on the list I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to just mention the program to renovate Stanton Territorial Health Authority to contain and remediate the mould issue. I’m happy to see that that has gone forward. To me it really is a reflection of the state of that building, that desperate need to do some work on that building, as is the second item regarding the repairs and modifications to the sterilization steam equipment. I hope the Minister sees it as the same, as some flags.

We have postponed and postponed and postponed renovations to Stanton Territorial Hospital. We are beginning to pay the price. Well, we have been paying the price for quite awhile, obviously. But these are some very serious issues that obviously express themselves in the health of our people.

I just wanted to get an update. I see that the issues of sterilization of equipment are ongoing. We are now 13 or 14 months into this issue. We have spent quite a bit on it. I know there have been other expenditures, I believe. Again, the most important aspect of this is the health of our people. I am wondering, first of all, are we caught up in the backlog that has resulted in surgeries as a result of this. I see we still do have an issue; I believe it’s scaled back quite a bit, but we are going after it. Are we postponing surgeries at this time because of the incurrent situation and the need to separate these two types of sterilization? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have that information in the briefing note; I don’t have that information here. As I recall, there are two operating rooms that were under the sterilization issue and that one is functioning fully. I think the other one, there are still some issues, but it is able to function to a certain level. I think that they’re able to do about 60 percent of the operations in that operating room, but there are some certain operations that they still can’t do in that one operating room. That’s my understanding at this time, but I can quickly check to see if those numbers are correct.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate the Minister’s commitment there and I think I’ll hold up on that one and ask that he provide that to us as soon as possible. That would be helpful.

The last one I have on this page is the considerable cost, almost a 50 percent increase to the cost for children in residential care outside the Northwest Territories. This is a very, very sad state to me. The last time we visited this issue was when the Child and Family Services Act was reviewed by the Social Programs committee. At that time we were assured by the department that those numbers were on the decline and great progress was being made. Now we have, as I mentioned, just about a 50 percent increase in costs.

As well, the number of children in care has gone up, or the number of childcare months has gone up and the cost is really ramped up even relative to those figures. So we’re now at well over $7 million. If we’re looking after special needs children here outside of the Northwest Territories… The reason why I kind of harp on this a little bit is because we had some very specific recommendations from the Child and Family Services Committee review to address exactly this sort of thing. One of which was the establishment of the child and family services committees in every community within the Northwest Territories, and we fought hard for and successfully got funding to establish five such committees and the department has failed to establish those here in the tenth month of our 12-month fiscal year.

So I guess what are we doing to address this and do we have no capacity for these children? I assume we have no capacity for these children in the Northwest Territories or we would have them here. But what are we doing to implement the sorts of mechanisms that the review highlighted as being needed to reduce these costs? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

These clients are children that have needs that require highly specialized daily attention for assessment, treatment, education and support services. The individual children that are in southern placements are there because we don’t have that service available in the NWT. Although the Child and Family Services Committee does deal with children receiving services, and under the whole Foster Care Program or the Child Protection Program we have these children in there in southern treatment or southern placement – some of these children in there in southern placement – it’s not directly associated with the creation of the committee cost. This cost here would be, unless we’re able to provide the treatment, educational and the support services that these particular children need. Even if we had all of the child and family service committees up and running, we would still have these children in these placements until, like the Minister of Finance indicated earlier,

we’re able to build facilities and get staff into the North trained or brought into the North to be able to accommodate the needs of these children here.

On the surgery room, I’m just going to read some of the key messages here that all surgeries have resumed, with the exception of joint replacement surgeries. The processes are in place to ensure that all the best practice guidelines are continued to be met. Higher risk joint surgery is still on hold, pending additional infection control improvements, and that was on the sterilization issue that the Member brought up previously.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that information. I did not hear anything about the child and family services prevention programs that we had recognized are needed here. There’s a national case going forward today where one of the workers we had involved in the review, Cindy Blackstock, is sort of leading the charge to take the Government of Canada to court, I believe, on their failure to appropriately fund Aboriginal children across Canada. I want to know that we are doing funding as we should be. There were a number of things that were identified, but funding is obviously only part of it.

We have funding in place. We need people who will go after the best spending of those sorts of things, and I hasten to add that I’ve been in discussions with my colleagues and we acknowledge that we wear some of that responsibility here, because I think these are our communities in all our ridings. So we need to be working with our communities to take advantage of the opportunity.

In this case here, we’ve got funding for five community committees and none of them up and running yet. But I want to know what we’re doing on the prevention side to implement these recommendations in an aggressive way.

I just want to point out that there’s a phenomenon here that we’re seeing repeated: the energy issues. You know, by not investing – and we know the returns are great, the paybacks are great – we’re paying at the other end big time now and it’s taking away other options. The same with the Hay River pension situation, of course. It’s now gone beyond our ability to address that $10 million. Here we have a situation again with child care. So I want to know that we are making good use of these dollars and not letting them slide. So can I get a sure answer that we’re actually going to do that here and get going on the prevention towards ultimately decreasing the escalating cost of looking after children outside of the NWT? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The government has given Health and Social Services $470,000 to work on the creation of the Child and Family Services Committee. We think that will go a long ways to the prevention. The Member is right; we haven’t struck any of those committees at this point. We are, as

this is all part of our tours to do consultation in communities. When we went into the Sahtu we looked at and we had an initial meeting with the health and social services authority, and at that time the health and social services authority felt like it was adding another layer of government to the system and thought it was going to just do nothing more than add costs.

After I met with the authority, along with the staff that were travelling with me, it became fairly clear that our intention of creating child and family services was for a good reason. That was that over the long term it would save costs.

The department is going to be offering the Train the Trainer workshops in Beaufort-Delta so that staff have the tools to establish the child and family services committees in the communities.

I think that I was surprised that each of the authorities, there was a plan for each of them, although they didn’t action the stuff yet, that each of them had a plan to try to create as many child and family services committees as possible. We looked at the numbers that I know at the top of my head right now would be in the Sahtu. When I travelled there with the Member for Sahtu we looked at the numbers. We say that two of the communities there may not need child and family services committees but the other three would need them. There was an actual call in the communities for them to be established.

Right now, back in October they delivered some of the workshops referred to as Child and Family Services Committees Train the Trainer Workshops. The authorities were doing them and they were delivering some of the programs in every authority except for the Beaufort-Delta. We’re hoping that by the end of March of this year that we’re going to hire a child and family services committees coordinator, and that individual will be located here, and we’re going to try to give that individual the responsibility to strike as many of these committees as possible. We’re actually working on it.

We’re not ignoring committee recommendations on these at all, it’s just taking some time to look at everything, train the staff and fill the appropriate positions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on the list I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Canadian Blood Services that we pay for, has the department looked at how the residents of the Northwest Territories could be part of helping these people that require blood? Is it cheaper or is it more convenient for them to just purchase the blood for these two people in the North than not to bother the rest of us? Because the Canadian Blood Service relies on donors too. Can there be something like

that or is it just doesn’t quite fit the plans for having blood for these people in the North here?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. There’s one central operation for blood services. They circulate it. They create the products. It’s a high-tech, highly specialized, very carefully controlled process. One of the reasons being, as I’ve indicated in some previous answers, were the concerns about infection and the Krever inquiry. We’re part of the Canadian Blood Services Board and we sit at the table with the other provinces and territories and the federal government, and we buy from a central location where these highly specialized products are made.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thanks to the Minister for explaining it to me.

I want to move on to the notion that at one time the operation of all the health boards was talked about. I think what the Minister said, if I understand it, is that they’re having some discussions to see if we would look at how do we all work together to cut some costs where it seems logical and beneficial if those cuts mean that we’re going to get more programs in our communities and regions. It is a delicate issue and it means people’s jobs, it means family, it means a lot of things. So if there’s a step or process that Cabinet has already looked at and the Minister has designed some type of strategy to see if this could pass through the Assembly, I think I’m all up for how we work this out. How can we help you make those difficult decisions? But you need to include us in that process. I know the last time it happened, I had some, I don’t know what you call it, from my constituents. They weren’t very happy. Something never went right there for us. So we’re willing to look at it again because we have to stop the leak of these deficits. Somewhere we have to stop the leak on our health board authorities. They do the best job they can. Like I said, we need to be funding our authorities and hospitals properly. That’s a lot of pressure on this government and ourselves.

Just looking at the sheet here, there’s money in here for costs to contain and remediate mould and air handling units on the fourth floor of Stanton Territorial Hospital. That’s dangerous. There’s mould there. In the air handling units on the fourth floor. We need to contain and remediate. It’s almost shock and awe. You’re going to look at that there. Those things I support, because there’s also mould in some other people’s houses in the Northwest Territories. I hope we have that kind of money for units, public and private.

I made some visits to the communities and there are people who live in the houses that have mould there. I don’t see any extraordinary funding to go to helping those people. I can see it for the hospital.

We send a lot of people there from the Sahtu and other communities. More importantly, we have staff people working there day in and day out. I’m surprised nobody has come before us for any type of lawsuit with those types of conditions. That’s crazy. That I can see, I can justify that cost. It makes sense. Even for the sterilization of equipment in the central supply processing unit there’s money there. Those kinds of costs I understand and can justify.

Not looking to spend too much time on this, Madam Chair. I just wanted to raise those concerns. When I see contain and remediate mould in the hospital, what’s going on there? There are many other things that are not told to us. We don’t know; they’re not on the record. With our health facilities in the communities, mould in our houses in the communities, I don’t see any extraordinary funding to help fix it and to remediate it.

I’m going to leave it there. It’s been a long day. I think I’ve said enough already to the Minister. I think he’s got the gist of what we’re talking about. That’s the end of my comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is not a board reform. We’re talking about reforming governance essentially in the way that the authorities are governing their various authorities, the way we’re governing the hospitals and health centres and so on. Even though this is governance reform, there will still be a requirement for a lot of consultation and that’s what we’re proposing. We’re not proposing to do any board reform at this time, or there’s no plan to do any board reform in the future either, for that matter.

The concern with the mould remediation was raised because the mould was between the air handling units located on the fourth floor of the hospital. There was an issue raised of possible infiltration into the entire hospital. The mould remediation was done with the Department of Public Works and Services and the remediation followed the Canadian Standards Association. We have a standard to remediate mould. The Member is right; there is a potential liability had the mould become airborne. I think that was avoided when the mould was remediated.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Just to close off, I’m glad the Minister clarified that it’s not a board reform initiative. I’m very happy that he clarified it. We’re looking at governance. The same comment to the Minister and Cabinet colleagues is working with us on governance issues and how do we deal with it. It’s important because the money is not going to be there all the time, so we need to do what we have to do with the money that we have.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on the list I have Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a really quick question on a comment made by the Minister of Health and Social Services earlier in regard to the joint replacement surgeries. That was the one that has been on hold and we’ve had questions in this House about it in the past. With the funding being contributed to the repairs and modifications to the sterilization steam equipment and central supply reprocessing unit, does the Minister foresee any further delays in these surgeries or does he still feel that we’re comfortable and going to start performing them come April?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. On August 15th of last year the operating room

where there was an issue was resumed to capacity. However, the aging equipment continues to present challenges to maintain consistent pH levels and the optimum sterilization results. So we’re not anticipating that there will be further issues, but given the age of the hospital and the operating room itself, it is possible. At this time, like I said, we’re operating at full capacity and it should be okay. I can’t make a prediction on that, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Okay, thank you. Nothing further? Department of Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, health services programs, not previously authorized, $4.790 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. Community health programs, not previously authorized, $2.126 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total department, Health and Social Services, not previously authorized, $8.887 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

What’s the wish of committee? We’re nearing our adjournment time of 6:00. Don’t want to rush through things that you might regret and ask questions about tomorrow. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. After extensive and diligent review of the government’s books, I’d like to move that we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I will now rise and report progress. I’d like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for their attendance here today.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Report of Committee of the Whole, Mrs Groenewegen.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 3-17(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The motion is in order. To the motion. Is there a seconder to the motion? Mr. Nadli.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 1: An Act To Amend The Borrowing Authorization Act
Third Reading of Bills

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Great Slave, that Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Borrowing Authorization Act, be read for the third time.

Bill 1: An Act To Amend The Borrowing Authorization Act
Third Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 1: An Act To Amend The Borrowing Authorization Act
Third Reading of Bills

Some Hon. Members

Question.

---Carried

Bill 1 has had third reading. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Tuesday, February 14, 2012, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 2-17(2), Supplementary

Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012

- Tabled Document 3-17(2), Supplementary

Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2011-2012

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, February 14, 2012, at 1:30 p.m.

The House adjourned at 5:56 p.m.