Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to continue consideration of Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, with the Department of Natural Resources and the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, committee. We’ll commence with that after a brief break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order and the department up next is the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. I’d like to ask Minister Miltenberger if he would like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Madam Chair.

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Does committee agree?

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses to the table.

For the record, Mr. Miltenberger, could you please introduce your witnesses?

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. With me is the deputy minister, Ernie Campbell; and head of forest fire operations, Bill Mawdsley.

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General comments on the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a few statements concerning the biggest project on this budget, which is the purchase of the 802 air tanker fleet replacement. I guess coming into this Assembly, I know they talked about these

replacements for a while, so it’s kind of a process of us new MLAs starting and looking into the process of replacing these units. It’s replacing an older fleet that I think we got for minimal dollars. I guess the high cost associated to the purchase of these newer planes, and I know the department’s been looking at this for years because I know the department did some tests in Hay River, I want to say half a dozen years ago, maybe six or seven years ago where they did some water tests between the 215s and the 802s. I think this was some of the basis of some of the assessments of these 802 new bombers that we’re looking at, these smaller bombers we’re looking at purchasing.

I guess my questions are concerns with the capacity of them. They’re quite a bit smaller. Their volumes are quite a bit smaller. I guess I’m concerned with the deep canopy penetration of the units. I know we have used them in some of our firefighting these last few years because I saw them in Hay River, I think, as a tactic with other units, I guess, other bigger units. So I think those are my initial concerns. I guess the Minister has expressed to us in committee meetings and stuff like that, that they have justification of the purchase of them.

I guess my concerns also in that area is they are, you know the budget item there, they are territorial units, I do believe, and I see them down as Fort Smith here in some of the documents we’ve gotten. I just have a little bit of concern on that. I’m just wondering where we’re going to locate them and what the costs are on that one. When we have newer units, is there going to be additional cost to housing?

I guess some of the justification is that we’ve looked at the operating costs and maybe some of the potential revenue. Because we’re buying new aircraft, we might be able to lease them out. Have we looked at the potential of that revenue in the future? Those are some of my general comments, Madam Chair.

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. As the Member indicates, I think this is our third year to have seen the 802s operate under full forest fire operating conditions, under extreme forest fire operating conditions, especially last summer. They have performed admirably. The 802s would equal the impact of the four 215s that we do currently have. The four 215s, which I point out are probably 60 years old, roughly, burn fuel that is going to become obsolete in the not-too-distant future. There’s three years left on the current contract. We have at least two instances and one near incident where we actually ran out of avgas in communities, in Norman Wells and Inuvik to be specific, where the 215s were stranded on the

runway and we had to work to find other aircraft to come in and assist.

The cost of operating the new units would be considerably less than the existing fleet. It’s around $4 million a year right now to keep the 215s in the air and operational.

The fuel consumption is probably one-third and it’s Jet B versus lead-filled avgas, and the operating costs, because they’re newer planes, would be considerably less. But I’d ask the deputy if he wants to add any further detail to the Member’s concerns, or Mr. Mawdsley. Let’s start with the deputy, Madam Chair.