This is page numbers 3683 – 3722 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Support To Seniors
Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week I stood up in this House and talked about all the wonderful programs and services available in the Northwest Territories. Today I’d like to focus on one area. That is the area of support to seniors.

People are living longer in the Northwest Territories and we want to keep our population from declining by seniors thinking about having to retire in the South because of the challenges here in the North. In spite of all of our good programs, that’s something that we have to be concerned about. I listed some of the support we do have for seniors, such as Pharmacare, vision care, driver’s licence cost relief, property tax relief, seniors emergency home repair programs, and then when you get into residential facilities owned by the GNWT, of course, we know that if a senior is over 60 and living in public housing or government housing that the rent is still very, very low. It’s not zero anymore, but it is certainly not means or income tested, and it is still very, very low. I forgot to mention the fossil fuel subsidy as well. That is another benefit to seniors living in their own home.

But I still think that we need to be very proactive as a government in assessing the needs of seniors coming up. We need to anticipate. Now, I know that the Department of Health and Social Services keeps a lot of statistics, and I’m sure that Housing has some statistics, as well, but in the interests of ensuring the comfort and well-being and the continuance of our seniors living in the Northwest Territories, I would like to know if there is a central census database of any kind which is a proactive measure and contact means to stay in touch with seniors no matter whether they are living in a care facility, living in their own independent home, living in supported housing such as what the Housing Corporation provides. I think that if we do not have a central database like that. We need one, because we need to anticipate the needs of seniors going forward and we need to be very proactive as a government.

I also think that the level of support to seniors, the degree of support to seniors needs to be more

level. I hear from a lot of constituents who are under extreme pressure right now with the cost of living. I can only imagine what it is like for people who are on fixed incomes and do not have the ability to go out and make more money. How much of their income, their fixed income goes towards those costs?

Later today I will have questions, I’m not sure if it’s for the Minister of Health or the Minister of Housing, about how we are anticipating the continuing and growing needs of seniors in the Northwest Territories.

Support To Seniors
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Support To Seniors
Members’ Statements

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to work with my colleagues on a micro theme on seniors. We know in the Northwest Territories that the population of the Northwest Territories is getting older and older and we are seeing a lot of forced expenses with that. We need to support our seniors whether they stay at home or whether they stay in facilities.

In this House over the last few years, you’ve heard us talking about the extended care beds in the H.H. Williams and the new health centre that’s going into Hay River and the fact that they’re not there. We’ve been able to get them in the budget, but the concern is what is the status of the future of Hay River seniors. How many seniors are going to be there, how much demand are we going to see in the future? The government has indicated that they are going to do a study, but we still haven’t seen anything about that study which was supposed to be completed by this year.

I will have specific questions to the Minister of Health about where that study is and what is the outcome for a regional centre like Hay River on the demands for seniors facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Support To Seniors
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

GNWT Position Vacancies
Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to use today’s occasion to return to the northern jobs issue that I, as well as many of my good colleagues, have been raising over the past several days.

We all know very well that we pass compensation dollars here every single year and in every single budget, and we certainly expected that money to be used for the reason it’s passed. It’s difficult for me to go back to the taxpayer to say the government

needs more money and they’re not spending it the way we’ve appropriated it. They look and ask what are we really doing here.

Since I’ve been discussing this issue – and I, as well, extend credit to my colleagues here on this side of the House – I’ve been receiving calls and e-mails from across the Northwest Territories and even in small communities, asking where are those jobs as promised. How can the government stand up and say we have all these jobs that are sitting empty? They’ll fill them with casuals for short term, but why aren’t we employing them properly like we really should? How many vacancies are truly on the books in these small communities where every single job makes a huge difference?

I can’t tell you or anyone in this room who doesn’t already know how important a job is, because those jobs feed families, they buy Christmas presents, they even pay mortgages and rents in many cases.

As Members, we know very well human resource dollars were intended for human resources dollars, not to be used as O and M or capital. But as we all know, these job dollars sometimes find their way to cover O and M requirements and sometimes that’s millions and millions of dollars. Sometimes the human resource dollars aren’t being used and applied properly and they’re used as casual dollars instead of hiring people as we originally intended. Or even worse, if you have a small community maintainer position and you can’t fill it, why aren’t we using it as a transition work development type of opportunity? But, no, we’d rather leave it empty and use that money for other things.

Everything I’m talking about is things like human resources that aren’t properly spent, in my view and certainly the view of many others. If we just take simple facts, the rolling vacancy of the Government of the Northwest Territories is somewhere between 16 and 17 percent and that’s about $15 million. That’s a rolling vacancy.

Everything I’m talking about simply adds to this: the government deputy ministers and Ministers want the flexibility to do what they want to meet their objectives. They call this micromanagement; the public calls it accountability.

GNWT Position Vacancies
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned in my statement today, I’ve been told by my constituents that the Minister of Health and Social Services informed the chief of Tsiigehtchic

and others that a nurse would not be hired for Tsiigehtchic. The Minister did not even have the common courtesy to inform me of this.

I’d like to ask the Minister, why is the Minister of Health retracting the commitment made by the former Minister of Health and Social Services on February 7, 2013? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister of Health and Social Services, my priority is going to be on the client, to providing the best services that we possibly can to the client. This includes residents of all communities throughout the Northwest Territories, including Tsiigehtchic.

In follow-up to the Member’s question, the department has agreed that we would start looking at alternatives and solutions for the small communities like Tsiigehtchic, Colville Lake and Wrigley and we will continue to do that, but we are limited by a number of things.

The current ISDM indicates service levels for communities and that there won’t be nurses in communities of less than 250 people. I can say that we do have regular visits to communities like Tsiigehtchic. On a regular basis, a nurse from the public health unit in Inuvik visits at least one day a week, and during freeze-up and breakup a nurse will actually reside in the community. We also have one CHR and one home support worker in the community.

I understand that more needs to be done. I am committed to working with the Member as well as residents of the community to find solutions that work.

I have directed the department to begin reviewing the ISDM to ensure that the right health services and the right mix are identified for our communities. Work needs to be done on that and I’m happy to work with the Member, with the residents of the community and with committee. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

The Minister actually brought up a good point and that point is that the community has a full-time nurse there five and a half months out of the year. So why is it so difficult for the Minister to ensure that we have a nurse in Tsiigehtchic for 12 months out of the year? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I know the Member doesn’t want to hear the same old same old, but the truth is we can’t put a nurse in the community on a permanent basis unless there’s an RCMP in the community, but I am interested in finding solutions and I’m sure there are solutions. If we work with the community, I’m sure we could find a balance that will give them the support and the coverage they need.

I have had an opportunity to talk to the public health nurse who goes in there on a regular basis and she talks about her interactions in the community and the good work that’s happening there, and I am interested in meeting and having further conversations with the community. In the meantime, we are going to look at our ISDM to make sure that we are finding the right balance for our small rural and remote communities throughout the Northwest Territories. Of course Tsiigehtchic is on that list. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Just so the Minister is up to date with what happens in the community through breakup and freeze-up there’s also no RCMP in the community. So I don’t think that that’s a valid excuse.

As I mentioned in my statement, the community has done the work to set aside housing for a nurse in our community. Will the Minister work with the community leaders to find a way to put a nurse in that house? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The other challenge obviously is the fact that under our ISDM we don’t have one-nurse stations, so we would have a challenge there as well. I will not commit to putting a nurse in that house at this time, but I will commit to working with the community, with the committee, as well as the health authority to find solutions that work for all communities, including Tsiigehtchic. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From what I understand, the policy doesn’t actually affect the licenced practical nurse as it does a full-time nurse. So will the Minister ensure that we make adjustments to the policy to make sure that communities like Tsiigehtchic have a proper nurse? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

It’s a very complex issue and I know the Member knows this. I mean, there are health and safety issues for our staff, we have to make sure that we’re meeting certain standards, but there are also the health and safety issues of the community and we have to find that balance. As I’ve indicated, I’ve directed the department to look at their ISDM to ensure that the right balance exists within all of our communities throughout the Northwest Territories, including the small and rural and remote as well as the isolated communities.

We have to think outside the box, we have to look at other options, emergency response, we have to look at maybe expanding community health workers or community health representatives. We have to find a way that the residents have that seamless care that we’ve been talking about from their community into other centres. We are

committed to improving the system. We want better health, better care and better results for all our residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, I’m not exactly certain who is the Minister responsible for Seniors in this government. Whoever it is, that’s who I’m directing my questions to.

What kind of proactive work is this government doing to establish a survey or a database of information on the up and coming needs of seniors? We say we want to keep seniors healthy, we want to keep them independent, we want to keep them in the North and I would like to ask, how are we anticipating the needs of seniors as our population ages? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister responsible for Seniors, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department has a good relationship with the NWT Seniors’ Society. We also have statistics on the ages of all residents of the Northwest Territories. We work closely with the local seniors’ societies, as well, to make sure that we’re aware of what’s going on in the communities, and we are doing a number of things to make sure that seniors throughout the Northwest Territories are informed. We did work closely with the NWT Seniors’ Society on the development of a Seniors’ Handbook, which basically outlines a lot of the different types of programs and services that are offered by the GNWT as well as other partners and NGOs. We are working to make sure that seniors are informed as much as possible, and we do collect statistics on population rates in the Northwest Territories on a regular basis.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

I do recognize the department does do a lot of good work with the seniors and for seniors in the Northwest Territories. I’d like to ask the Minister, how does that information they have on the age, health status, housing conditions, how does that translate, that information, into a plan to ensure that we continue to support seniors in the appropriate levels?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

All the information that comes in helps inform decisions that we, in this House, make on both sides of the House. One of the things that we’re using some of that data for within the Department of Health and Social Services is the developing of an Aging in Place Strategy for the support of all of our elders in the Northwest Territories. This Aging in Place Strategy

was intended to be ready I believe it was October or November, but we didn’t have it done at that time. I wanted to see a few additional things put in there and have a few more conversations with committee, but I will have something to present to committee in short order with respect to the Aging in Place Strategy.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

That is also good news. I would also like to ask the Minister what the government’s position is or strategy is with respect to the sustainability of the support for seniors given that some seniors do receive an extraordinary amount of support, basically living without having to worry about the cost of fuel or they’re living in government accommodation and they don’t have to worry about the cost of fuel or the cost of power. They don’t have to worry about who they’re going to pay to shovel the snow off their driveway. That cost, as compared to the cost of seniors who are much more supported, I think that would be a good way to describe it, what is the government’s plan to ensure the sustainability and fairness of the delivery of programs to seniors?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The bottom line is we know we have an aging population. We know that with an aging population we have additional challenges on our health care system, as well, on the supports that we do provide to seniors throughout the Northwest Territories. As the population ages, the costs will go up. We have to find ways to control our costs within the system. One of the ways we’re proposing is to support more aging in place and providing mechanisms to help seniors stay in their own homes for as long as they can before they have to transition into independent living or extended care or something like a dementia facility. We collect the data and we’re developing plans that will help us control our costs, recognizing that we will likely see increased costs over time.