Thanks, Mr. Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 286-19(2), Main Estimates 2021-2022, with Health and Social Services. Mahsi.

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess.

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I will call the committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 286-19(2), Main Estimates 2021-2022. Does the Minister of Health and Social Services have any opening remarks?

Yes, Mr. Chair, I do.

Please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to present the 2021-2022 Main Estimates for the Department of Health and Social Services. Overall, the department's estimates propose an increase of $74.8 million or 14.3 percent over the 2020-2021 Main Estimates. These estimates support the mandate objectives for the department while continuing to meet the Government of the Northwest Territories' fiscal objectives to prioritize responsible and strategic spending.

Highlights of these proposed estimates include:

• $34.6 million for the COVID-19 Coordinating Secretariat;
• $13.1 million for initiatives, which include resources to increase front-line capacity in Child and Family Services, resources to continue with the establishment of the NWT school and community child and youth care counsellors in our communities, and resources to expand Healthy Family programming;
• $10.7 million to address forced growth;
• $9.2 million for projects in partnership with federal agencies such as Indigenous Services Canada, including the Northern Wellness Agreement and the First Nations and Inuit Home and Community Care agreement; and,
• $8.5 million to fund 24/7 operational staffing costs in Health and Social Services programming, forced growth at Avens, and the expansion of the dialysis unit in Hay River.

The department is also planning for a $558,000 decrease due to sunsetting agreements with funding partners.

These estimates continue to support priorities of the 19^th Legislative Assembly by:

• increasing supports for meeting health and wellness needs and priorities of Indigenous people;
• supports to increase mental health services to youth in schools and communities throughout the NWT;
• increased supports for mental wellness and addictions recovery; and
• improving early childhood development indicators through expansion of the Healthy Family Program to support expecting parents and parents with young children.

That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

The committee has agreed to consider the activity "COVID secretariat" first. Does the Premier wish to bring witnesses into the House?

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Madam Premier, please introduce your witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With me today, I have Mr. Russell Neudorf, the associate deputy minister of the COVID secretariat, and Ms. Jeannie Mathison, the director of finance with Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. COVID secretariat, beginning on page 176, with information item on page 178. Questions? Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am looking at page 178 at the active positions. Could the Minister or the department tell us how many of these positions were hired from the North versus how many were people brought from the South? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. As committed to when we met with standing committee, 100 percent of the staffing for the COVID secretariat are from the North, either P1s, P2s, or some of them are not priority status but are residents of the Northwest Territories. No southern people were hired for the COVID secretariat. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister tell me how many of these employees for the enforcement team are ex-RCMP officers? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The enforcement task team, I will turn over to the deputy minister to get more on the RCMP officers, but there were qualifications that were needed with the enforcement, Mr. Chair. The task force enforcement team are literally knocking on people's doors and handing out verbal warnings, written warnings, or tickets. It was really critical that we have people who have some kind of training in enforcement to ensure the safety of residents and the safety of our enforcement team. Mr. Chair, I can turn it over to our deputy minister to speak more on how many are ex-RCMP. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Mr. Neudorf.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you for that, reiterating the Premier's point again. Thank you. I look forward to getting that information. Can you speak to how much money was spent relocating people around within the territory to take these positions, i.e., people being moved to the Beaufort-Delta region rather than hiring locally there? Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will ask Ms. Mathison if she knows exact numbers. We did try to hire as much as possible from the regions. For example, in the Beaufort-Delta, when I went up to Fort McPherson, all of the border patrol staff were actually from the communities. Mr. Chair, the amount of money that we had spent, I would have to turn it over to Ms. Mathison if she has that.

Ms. Mathison.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rather than the monetary amount, I would like to get a feel for how many people did move around. I know that there have been people who were hired from out of the region into that region. I just want to know if there is a way to characterize that happening, but it doesn't sound like it. Maybe I will follow up, then, with the Minister at a later date. Thank you. I'm good.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will take that as a comment, and the Member is going to follow up.

Thank you. Questions? Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just looking at the 2020-2021 revised estimates, $31 million. We passed this in a supplementary appropriation, but I know, since that time, a number of cost-saving measures have gone on. Do we have a forecast of how much we will actually spend on the COVID secretariat this fiscal? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The forecast that we are going to actually spend in this new coming year, 2021-2022, will be $34,589,000. However, Mr. Chair, as Members are aware, we do provide variance reports every month. Since we did change the isolation, we are no longer covering for discretionary travel, vacations. We are seeing a savings. We are also seeing a savings by combining the 811 and Protect NWT. Right now, I think we are looking at probably a surplus of around $6 million. However, Mr. Chair, that may fluctuate day to day, but we are seeing savings. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I heard the Premier say that the $34 million budgeted for this fiscal, assuming we went a full fiscal, would actually be about $6 million lower. Can I just get an updated figure of the $31 million we budgeted for the fiscal we are presently in, how much of that we got back from the federal government? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will answer that question, and then I will turn it back to my deputy minister, if appropriate. My notes said $6 million, but she has a different figure. What I would like to say is that right now we got money in bundle 1 from the federal government, and we are just getting bundle 3 for this fiscal year from the federal government. At this point, we are at about 80 percent of our funding for the COVID secretariat being supported by the federal government.

The other thing that I would like to say with that is that the federal government has stated over and over that COVID-19 is one of their major priorities for the upcoming budget. We have already initiated conversations with them. They have already told us to get our ask in. I do assume that another substantial amount of funding will come for the COVID secretariat and not only the secretariat, but for health in general and all of the expenses around COVID-19. Thank you, Mr. Chair, but if I can turn to the deputy minister for clarification on the surplus.

Thank you, Premier. Mr. Neudorf.

Thank you. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are budgeting for a full year and hoping that we do not need a full year. It would be nice if COVID was wrapped up, but a lot of that is beyond our control. Can I just get a sense of what's going to happen, say, if we wrap this up in September, use half a year's fiscal? How do we plan to make sure that the 150-or-so staff in the COVID secretariat do not simply lose their jobs? Will they be transferred back to other positions, or are they on short-term contracts? Can I just get a little update on that, how we are staffing the COVID secretariat in light of it having to end? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Some of the people, quite a few of them, actually, are new hires. There are some people who were transferred from departments and chose to stay with the COVID secretariat. Those people who were transferred within government departments will go back to their government departments. They are on a leave, but they still have jobs. The other people who were hired for the COVID secretariat started out either as casual and we just actually, because of the agreements with the union, I think that it made a couple of years back when I was the Minister, we have turned them into term employees. The last set will be up to one year. I think we are all tired of COVID, so hopefully, we will be able to wrap up. We are not sure, no one is sure, when COVID will end. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is there a formal kind of wrap-up plan being created for the COVID secretariat, and when would we be able to see that? I think that some of the things that I would like to see is a bit of evaluation of why the COVID secretariat was needed, whether its role was actually worked when we said this is going to combine all the things; it's going to stop things being done off the side of its desk -- it took a lot of authority out of the emergency management organization, so I think a wind-up plan, and will that be done and a review of how well the COVID secretariat actually did and what it claimed to do, which was to kind of centralize all of the communications and functions in response to COVID-19? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely. I did hear Members. I try to work with Members as much as possible. We have kind of had an oral wrap-up plan that said, once the CPHO eases measures, we would do that. I heard the Member, so we will be working on a formal wrap-up plan. However, we are not assuming anything is going to happen, at minimum, until the end of September, until all jurisdictions are vaccinated. The other thing, too, is we are not even sure right now with the new variants that are coming whether the vaccines -- there is all kinds of research that has to be done on the health side for the CPHO to be able to determine whether we will be able to do that.

However, we will do a wrap-up plan that we can share with Members when that is done. The other, too, is an evaluation. Absolutely, that was critical for us. I am hopeful that I will never see another pandemic in my lifetime, but it would be very irresponsible for a government to have gone through a pandemic and not have a game plan. We had nothing when we started and when we hit this pandemic, so a major part of the work after the restrictions are eased will be for the COVID secretariat to do an evaluation and a game plan -- I am not sure of the right terminology, Mr. Chair, but a plan that says, if ever a pandemic hits again, this is what we shall do as a government. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I have some clarification? My understanding is that, when we passed the initial COVID secretariat supplemental, about half of the money was isolation costs. I understand we have been getting those variance reports; we are $800,000 under budget, meaning we have a surplus. When I look at the numbers here, I assume fees and payments $15 million is mostly the isolation centres. However, now, this fiscal, we are being asked to pass $12 million in fees and payments. Can I get clarification of whether that fees and payments line is the isolation centres? If it is, why is it not significantly lower considering we are not paying for as many isolation centres? Thank you, Mr. Chair

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do know that the isolation centres do fall within that line item, but for more clarification, I would like to turn it to Ms. Mathison.

Ms. Mathison.

Member.

No further questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes. My colleague from Yellowknife North asked a number of questions I wanted to pursue. I know that Gahcho Kue mine is closed temporarily, and over 100 workers are in the isolation centre here in Yellowknife. Who is paying for those workers while they self-isolate here in Yellowknife? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, I am really glad to answer this question. Not only is the mine paying for it, but as stated earlier in the House -- I believe it was someone, Ms. Nokleby, who stated that the mines are good corporate citizens. Gahcho Kue mine has actually been extraordinary. When they had the outbreak, they went down into kind of a lower, almost a care and maintenance with them. They evacuated people. They covered all the costs, Mr. Chair. Not only are they covering the costs of the isolation centres, they also have had their own security at the isolation centres to watch the people that they are isolating, which, in fact, actually helps us because they are using the same facilities. It doubles the security. Of course, they are looking at their own, but they are covering 100 percent of the costs. I cannot be grateful enough. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is good to hear, that the mine is covering their own costs. Do we cover the costs and then bill them, or are they paying directly? How does that actually work on the ground? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is that they are paying it directly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Okay, thanks. That is good to hear, as well, so we do not have to be worried about trying to recover costs later. Like my colleague from Yellowknife North, I was a bit surprised that the fees and payments were not a little bit lower, but I do want to acknowledge that there have been some cost savings even from what was predicted in the supplementary appropriation that we passed in -- I guess it was probably in October, November, from what I see here now in the main estimates. With vaccinations rolling out and so on, do we anticipate further cost savings in this area over the course of the next several months? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is a difficult question to answer. I would love to say yes. However, Mr. Chair, as stated earlier, not knowing what these new variants coming from around the world and not knowing the research yet, according to my understanding from the CPHO, not knowing if people who are vaccinated can still transfer COVID-19, having no vaccinations yet for children under 18, and not having the research yet if this vaccine is going to work on all of the variants, although some of them have shown positive results, I cannot say for sure, Mr. Chair, if our isolation centre costs will go down until that research comes in and we know exactly what we are dealing with. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the Premier for that response. I am not sure I am going to ask the right party this question, but yes, when there are reports issued now about COVID cases, I have had to ask: are we actually routinely testing for the variants, or when a case is reported, does that happen as a routine course now? If that information could be added to the public health advisories when they're issued, that would be really helpful because I know it was even raised on CBC Radio by callers yesterday. I don't know who to address that question to. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if we're testing for the variants on every test that we do for COVID now. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's my understanding that all the tests are now sent south for sequencing, and as of this time, we have no variants. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member.

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks for that. Can that information be added to the public health advisories when they're issued, about whether it's a suspected or a confirmed case is a variant or not? Right now, it's not part of the public health advisory when they're issued. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is under the responsibility of Health and Social Services, so I'd like to defer that to the Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The content of the public health advisory is solely at the discretion of the Chief Public Health Officer, so I have no ability to influence the information that it includes. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member.

Great, thanks. I know that the Minister -- we want an independent Chief Public Health Officer, but maybe the suggestion might be made. Maybe she's listening in, and she might listen to what I'm saying. I'm hoping that that kind of information can be added because it is causing some public concern. It was raised on the radio yesterday. In any event, I do want to move on to another area here, and it's with regard to enforcement. There were some issues raised in the public about this. I just would like to know what kind of training do each of the public health officers receive when they're designated under the Public Health Act? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I get clarification in the question again?

Thank you. Member, can you clarify that?

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is there standardized training provided to the public health officers when they're designated under the Public Health Act with regard to COVID?

Thank you. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I believe there is, but I'd like for Mr. Neudorf to be able to expand on that, on the training aspect. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Neudorf.

Thank you. Member.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. When a public health officer conducts a visit or an inspection, do they do this on their own, or are they always accompanied by another officer or another, say, somebody with a liquor or cannabis commission or Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As stated earlier, the enforcement is probably, of all the duties of the COVID secretariat, is one of the most at-risk because they are actually giving out verbal warnings, written warnings, or tickets, and people don't always take that very, very well. Yes, Mr. Chair, no enforcement officer is going to either knocking on doors or in businesses or anywhere, other than that two phone calls, on their own. We always send two members. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Premier. Member.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That's exactly what I'd hoped to hear and would expect from our public service and our leaders, so thank you very much for that. In general, is there a written inspection report provided to a business owner after an inspection is conducted? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will turn it over to Mr. Neudorf, but before I do that, I want to state that it's very important that Protect NWT and 811 have the autonomy to be able to do their jobs. At no time, as the Minister of the COVID secretariat, do I actually give any direction to Protect NWT or 811 on their enforcement practices, who they ticket, what they're ticketing, although, Mr. Chair, I have said that I will stand behind each member in their decisions. On that, I'd like to turn it over to the deputy minister for more information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Neudorf?

Thank you. Questions on this section? Any further questions? No further questions, please turn to page 177. Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $34,589,000. Does committee agree?

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. We'll take a five-minute recess.

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Does the Minister of Health and Social Services wish to bring witnesses into the House?

Yes, please, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce her witnesses?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On your left is Deputy Minister Bruce Cooper and on your right is Director of Finance Jeannie Mathison.

Thank you. Committee, we will defer the departmental summary and review the estimates by activity summary, beginning with administrative and support services, starting on page 172 with information item on page 175. Questions? Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I am going to start off with the line item for the French language services. I'm wondering if there is a matching line item for Indigenous languages. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is a Tlicho cultural coordinator who is listed in the same area, but to the best of my knowledge, there is not a separate coordinator for each Indigenous language. I'll just confirm that by asking the deputy minister if that, in fact, is the case. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.