Mr. Chairman, I think what the Member is referring to is the pay equity issue. As I said in my opening remarks, we have been anxious to try and resolve it with the unions, although talks have broken off. I indicated a few weeks ago that when the talks broke off, we were well over $50 million apart in what it is we were prepared to come to the table with. It is a huge gap in what we think is a realistic area of settlement. So, the union has broken off talks with us and I am sure they are looking at their options, as we are. We have not come to any decision on what course of action we will take. One way or the other the issue has to be resolved. It looks unfortunate, but there could be a more productive way to resolve it. If there is not, we will advise Members once we come to some sort of decision on it.
Debates of March 17th, 1993
Topics
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Have the male public service ever looked at reducing their salaries so it is more equal with the women's salary?
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I have never understood that to be remotely possible. Not that they would all turn it down but the direction and the parameters for settling, at least at this stage, have been understood to be set by the Human Rights Commission. The point is not to beat the men down to a pay level where the women are; the point is to bring the women, and those jobs that are underpaid for the work they do, up to the level of the other jobs. That is the understanding.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, have we even looked at a slight reduction in salaries on the part of the men so there is a balance somewhere? It does not mean a reduction all the way down to a woman's level but they should be able to increase a woman's salary and take a little bit from the men to balance things out a bit. I must be dreaming, I am not sure whether that is possible.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister. Mr. Minister, did you want to make a comment?
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Yes, Mr. Chairman, just to make the comment that, in my view, when the unions agreed to zero per cent, that did not keep up with the rate of inflation. I think we have to keep in mind that all around us across this country the other governments, provincial governments, are in very serious financial situations and there are lay offs and cutbacks happening and suggestions of revisiting agreements that were just recently made. I do not know that our employees are totally aware of how tough the financial situations are that the governments across this country find themselves in. So far, we have managed to do many things to try to be economic in our use. It has been tough on certain groups but I think the union has to realize there is limited money. Until that message sinks in, the ability to negotiate realistically is going to be very limited. Hopefully, time will get the message to everyone that we have very limited means in which to continue to live as we live. We have to be creative, some of us have to make sacrifices and the things we want for Christmas this year might have to wait for one or two years. That is the message. Perhaps we live in an insulated world up here and we do not have that much time. I really hope the message gets across. Thank you.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Line by line. Job evaluation, total O and M, $586,000.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Staffing
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Labour Relations
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 992
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Employee Benefits
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
The Chair Tony Whitford
We have agreement. Employee benefits, total O and M, $17.543 million. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
I want to make the comment that these employees' benefits for $17 million are for approximately 5,000 civil servants. We pay $17 million in social assistance alone to, I do not know how many, individuals in the territories. I want the Members to be cognizant of that. Thank you.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
The Chair Tony Whitford
Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, there is no amount in dollars. Comments? It is from 05-15 to 05-18. Total department, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, total department, $6.907 million.
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Minister with regard to page 05-17 on detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. This $97,000 paid to DIAND for a secondment through a vote 4/5, is that funding given to DIAND or is it not offset where it is an in and out entry? We do not give DIAND $97,000 to take care of the secondment for Claire Barnabe to July 29, 1994, do we?
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Committee Motion 108-12(3): To Adopt Recommendation 20
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 993
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the way the secondment agreement works is we continue paying this particular individual, bill the federal government and the federal government pays us back.