The motion is in order, it is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? Opposed? The motion is carried. To the motion, Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. To the motion, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be voting against the motion. I believe this Committee has had an opportunity to deal with this, which they did not do, we probably would not be in this situation if they had dealt with it fairly the first time and also that, maybe they should also consider that amount of people that have, because of another decision they made regarding increasing people's fees, that there are now elders facilities where a lot of people have now abandoned these facilities to live with their family and relatives because, that cost increased on seniors also.

I believe also, that the Committee, I went to a meeting yesterday where they had an opportunity to speak to it and did not spend any more than five or ten minutes on the item, which basically, nothing was even dealt with on the item. All that was decided was to put it off and deal with it later.

In regards to Mr. Miltenberger's statement about people being gutless and standing up and grandstanding, I was not grandstanding, I have thirty people in my riding who will no longer receive this subsidy, a lot of those people are disabled and cannot afford to work, maybe it is nice to live in a larger centre, which I do not, I think, the seniors have been.. we are talking a Committee that talks about compassion and everything else, yet, like Mr. Steen states, it seems, like, the first person that we seem to lay down our compassionate statement is on the seniors when, we basically start increasing their fees on the seniors homes and also doing away with subsidies that will clearly benefit those people.

So, I would like to state that they do meet with the seniors tomorrow, I hope you would like to mention to them that we also did make an attempt to pass a motion in this House to deal with this matter once and for all, get it over with and move on. We are probably spending in the range of eighteen thousand dollars a day to sit here, we are talking about where will we get the two hundred thousand dollars from to pay in this issue. And as far as I am concerned, it has gone through the cycle again and is probably going to take another three months before it gets back to being resolved and the Minister has clearly stated who the Committee answers to but he is in no way, shape or form going to move on this motion. So if they can somehow convince him, more power to you. But I will be voting against this motion.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion, Mr. Picco.

To the Motion. Are you... Okay, Mr. Picco, I am sorry, Mr. Picco I am sorry....

Okay Mr. Picco are you finished, your mike was turned off. Did you have something further you wanted to say? To the Motion?

Okay, thank you Mr. Picco. To the motion Mr. O'Brien please.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. I would like to remind the members please to temper your comments. Make your comments relevant to the motion as opposed to each other and each other's comments.

To the motion please Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To the motion. On Social Programs Committee, to the motion I would vote in favour of this because it would give me a chance to talk with the seniors who I am meeting with on Saturday in the community of Inuvik and I will get their input and I will voice it in the Thursday meeting we will have with the other seniors on October 25th.

It seems like in issues of this -- the Motion here -- initially we cut it out; after a lot of response, we are discussing it again, and I agree we do seem to go in circles on it, but it seems like quite a number of things within the social program come back and we receive a lot of pressure. This is just the beginning Madam Chair and I think that if we are going as much problems on this then we could be sitting a lot longer in this House on a lot more things.

I think we are going to try and address this in committee and as for dealing with this, yesterday we met as a committee on a number of things. This issue did come up but we realized then we did not have all the information and it was brought to our attention that we were also meeting with the president of the Seniors' Association, I believe, and we were told at that time our meeting was to occur on October 25th. We figured we would give them the opportunity at that time to address this specific issue.

We have talked about communication, consultation. I think we are just trying to do our job. As a member of the Social Programs Committee, I think we are trying to do the best we have with what we have and no, we are not right all the time. But I do not think anybody walks on this world is. I think we all need to step back and realize that. I said it ;before and I will say it again - even back home in my community I will make some decisions, good and bad, but hopefully I will realize that and learn from my mistakes.

If we can do something with this I would like that because no doubt I will be -- when I am talking with the elders in my community, they will tell me that this should be put forth -- kept in. I think we all need to sit back and, if we are doing this for the people, then let us do it for the people. Let us not do it to say and make it a personal issue in the House of who is on what committee doing what to who. That is not the situation.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. To the motion. The question is being called. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here to what I said. What I said was that this motion suggests that the committee did not do a good job. I am not suggesting the committee did not do a good job. The motion does. I believe the committee did do a good job and based on the information that you had at that time and based on the information you are going to get now, your decision is going to be the same.

-----LAUGHTER

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Steen. To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Okay. Mr. Henry is requesting a recorded vote. The question is being called. Please stand all those in favour of the motion.

All those opposed to the motion please

stand.

All those abstaining from the motion please stand.