This is page numbers 583 - 617 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Members Present

Hon. Jim Antoine, Hon. Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Hon. Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Hon. Manitok Thompson, Hon. John Todd

--- Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 583

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Good afternoon. Orders of 'the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 66-13(3): Appointment Of Rcmp Auxiliary Members As Peace Officers
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 583

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon I had the pleasure of participating in the appointment of 16 RCMP auxiliary members as police officers. I would like to take the opportunity to recognize the significance of that event. This program is the first for the Northwest Territories. It allows citizens to take an active part in the policing of their community and is a major step towards the enhancement of RCMP resources. The RCMP auxiliary policing program would not have been possible without the initiative and efforts of the RCMP members of "G" Division, who worked so hard to make this program concept a reality. I congratulate those members responsible for the development of this program.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important program and is totally dependent upon the participation of volunteers. The volunteer is a special individual. These persons put others ahead of themselves and are willing to give something back to the communities in which they live. In this instance, they have dedicated many hours of personal time to this program, over and above the basic training requirements, and will continue to receive training on an ongoing basis. They have participated in a number of community events such as the 1996 air show and zero tolerance policing activities.

Their presence has been noted and well-accepted by the public. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a moment to mention the new auxiliary members: Paul Mounsey; Mike Bourque; Linda Thiel; Mitch Siemens; Emmett Crossman; Melanie Lacroix; Ron Nickle; Ross Jan; Jeff Steinwand; Steven Pagotto; Michael Dunsmore; Jim Peterson; Allison Gloeden; Gerta Groothuizen; Lorraine Conway; and, Francis Jackson. I would like to thank them for volunteering for this program and to wish each of them luck with this very worthwhile endeavour. I am confident that the RCMP auxiliary policing program will be a successful one and that these individuals will prove to be an example for others to follow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Minister's Statement 66-13(3): Appointment Of Rcmp Auxiliary Members As Peace Officers
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 583

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent.

Minister's Statement 67-13(3): Northern Nursing Program
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

May 22nd, 1996

Page 583

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the health care field offers northerners many opportunities for employment. Well-trained northern health care workers can make it easier for patients to receive treatment in a manner more reflective of their culture and language. Northern aboriginal health care specialists can reduce our staff recruitment costs and provide positive role models for our young people.

To develop this potential, my department has collaborated with Aurora College, Health and Social Services and the NWT Registered Nurses' Association to establish the northern nursing program.

Not only was a legislative amendment needed to ensure registered nurses could be graduated, but approval was needed from the Nurses' Association itself to ensure the program met all academic requirements and national standards. After an evaluation of the staff and curriculum, health care professionals said the program ranked with any in the country and could serve as a model of excellence for other programs. They praised the quality of the staff and the blend of traditional medicine and modern medical practices in the curriculum.

Mr. Speaker, the Nursing Association's board of directors has recently recommended that the northern nursing program be granted approval for two years. It will be reviewed again at that point and regularly in the future, so it can maintain its status.

I want to congratulate all partners who participated in the development of the northern nursing program. I would like to give special recognition to the staff at the Yellowknife campus of Aurora College. They have created a nursing program with high professional standards and one which will ensure a supply of well-trained northern nurses for the future.

--- Applause

Minister's Statement 67-13(3): Northern Nursing Program
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 584

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Congratulating Gjoa Haven Men On Commissioner's Award For Bravery
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure to announce that last evening there was a Commissioner's award ceremony in Gjoa Haven, followed by a feast and a dance. The people of Gjoa Haven celebrated the commendable bravery of three young men. They are Sam Kenerk; James Kununak; and, Clarence Siutinnuaq. They saved the lives of five children who were going to play hockey on a lake which had just frozen over, in September of 1995.

The all-terrain vehicle they were on went through the ice in the deepest part of the lake. Some of the children pulled themselves out, when three men went over and pulled out the rest of the children who had fallen through the ice. We are all grateful that Sam, James and Clarence unselfishly came to the aid of the five children.

--- Applause

Congratulating Gjoa Haven Men On Commissioner's Award For Bravery
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements.

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is with regard to a question of aboriginal rights, treaty rights, programs and services being transferred from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories, as well as regarding other treaty rights that have been signed in the past and new treaties, which are now called land claims agreements.

Under Section 35 of the Canadian Constitution, it clearly identifies aboriginal people having distinct rights. It seems through the transfers that have taken place and the downsizing of government, there is a fundamental problem in how people are recognized. We have band members who are registered Indians, under the Indian Act, in bands in the Northwest Territories, yet may live in southern Canada for medical, personal or family reasons. Those people have rights to only one band in Canada and that's the band with whom they're registered. The same thing applies to Metis organizations and people registered in land claims settlements.

It seems like we are spending a lot of time talking about devolving programs and services to communities, and also cuts in delivery of programs and services; yet, when it comes to the principle of individual rights, the whole question about who has authority over aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories, they are played off as pawns by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and also this government. We have to identify the exact right we're talking about, in the context of the right to programs and services which have been transferred from Indian Affairs to this government, by way of contribution agreement or block funding.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Krutko.

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In concluding my statement, issues have been raised in this House about individuals who return home from the South after a couple of months, and the problems we have seen in how they're dealt with by Social Services for access to social programs such as welfare and being restricted from those rights based on residency. These people we call aboriginal people have been here for thousands of years. In some cases, 20,000 to 30,000 years. Yet, when it comes to where they come from, this government seems to have a problem in identifying exactly where their homeland is. This is their homeland. They were here long before this government, or even Canada.

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

So I think we have to somehow deal with this question about how we deal with the aboriginal people who traditionally come from this homeland, to make them feel at home in their land without being questioned or disputed with regard to their status. This government should do an internal review on exactly how they see the registered systems for program delivery and how people's health cards or status cards can be put into all aspects of government, not just a number where you show up and say I've been gone for a while. Oh, sorry, you're not a resident.

At the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister a question on this item. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Community Wellness Conference In Iqaluit
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 584

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, an important event is happening at the present time in Iqaluit. The community is holding a community wellness conference. Workshops on topics like communication skills, sexual abuse, parenting skills, suicide, traditional Inuit healing practices, smoking, elders' issues and mental health are just some of the topics being discussed. Phyllis Chelsey from the Alkali Lake Indian Band will be one of the keynote speakers. The conference is being co-chaired by Mayor Joe Kunuk and Lena Evic Twerdin.

Mr. Speaker, this conference is part and parcel of the type of activity envisioned when the GNWT announced the community wellness strategy. Community wellness, to me, means taking control of our lives and social conditions at the community level. We have to build bridges and support mechanisms between cultures and economic conditions. We have to base the strengths of the community and balance these against the undercurrents of helplessness that have permeated through our communities.

Mr. Speaker, this conference in Iqaluit will build on the pride that has been evident in our community over the past several months. I congratulate the organizers, participants and volunteers who have made this event possible.

I will not be in the House tomorrow as I will be travelling to Iqaluit with Mr. Todd. I will be participating in a panel discussion on community wellness this weekend and, of course, will be hosting Mr. Todd. I am looking forward to participating with the guests and participants of the community wellness strategy and, of course, playing host to Mr. Todd, who will be much in evidence and in the spotlight this weekend in Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Community Wellness Conference In Iqaluit
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Baffin Fishery
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A week ago today I talked about my optimism for the Baffin fishery. Today I am pleased to report some new developments.

In response to a letter sent on March 27, 1996, on behalf of all Baffin MLAs, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Honourable Fred Mifflin, has sent a reply to us, care of Mr. Arlooktoo, dated May 16, 1996. The Minister included with the letter a copy of a letter he had written recently to the chair of the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, Mr. Ben Kovic.

Mr. Speaker, I am encouraged by the contents of the Minister's letter. In his letter he stated, "I understand the importance of marine fisheries to the people of Nunavut." In his letter to Mr. Kovic, the Minister also noted that weather has devastated the 1996 winter fishing for inshore turbot, as I have already described in this House. Taking that bad weather into account, the Minister stated that he would allow unfished inshore quotas to be transferred to offshore fishing for Nunavut in the amount of 970 tonnes.

He also agreed that again in 1996, Pangnirtung Fisheries will be allowed by the Minister to arrange to charter a Newfoundland vessel to fish for turbot in area "0," since they do not yet have a vessel of their own.

Baffin Fishery
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Graduates From Mowhi Community Learning Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I am pleased to stand in the House to announce that at the Mowhi Community Learning Centre there will be a graduation ceremony for 36 young adults who have worked hard to better themselves over the past year. I wish I was able to attend this important event. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate each and every one of them for their achievements, as well as congratulate all the graduates from across the Northwest Territories.

The graduates for the academic upgrading program are Bessie Apples; Doreen Apples; David Gon; Marilyn Kotchilea; Madeline Mackenzie; Mary Adele Mackenzie; Tiny Mackenzie; Alice A Mantla; Kathy Simpson; Mary Louise Tinqui; Adeline Wedzin; and, Alice Wedzin.

For the northern skills development program the graduates are Nora Beaverhoe; Therese Drybone; Johnny Dryneck; Nora Ekendia; Betty Ann Mackenzie; Joyce Washie; Betty Ann Wedzin; Lena Drybone; Rose Bailey; and, Mary Margaret Mantla.

For the pre-trades program the graduates are Peter Beggair; Peter Eyakfwo; Paul Lafferty; Gilbert Mantle; Raymond Mantle; Jean Louie Rabesca; Stanley Wallin; Alfred Whane; Justin Whane; William Tatzia; Wayne Sabourin; Jerry Quitte; and, Richard Bishop.

Mr. Speaker, these are the graduates and I would like to congratulate them and say best wishes for the future. Mahsi cho.

--- Applause

Graduates From Mowhi Community Learning Centre
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Student Summer Employment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 585

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Qujannamiik, Uquqtii. I would like to report on the town hall session held here in Yellowknife by the federal Ministerial Taskforce on Youth, on May 15th, and suggest ways our government can help youth employment. As you are aware, the federal government -- as we are, here today, in the North -- is very concerned about the lack of employment opportunities for current graduates of our schools, colleges and universities. To address this problem, the federal government is providing short-term funds for summer student employment this year to each province; including, I understand, the NWT. These funds are double what they have provided in previous years.

The federal government has also established a taskforce to address long-term plans to improve employment opportunities for new graduates. One of the Taskforce on Youth strategies is to hold town hall meetings throughout Canada to obtain views and opinions from the youth themselves and others who are concerned.

I attended the town hall meeting here in Yellowknife and heard many different ideas. One of these ideas is to provide hands-on career and technology programs. We have the CALM programs in our schools -- which stands for "career and life management' -- but students believe the program should be started in an earlier grade; that the employment experience should be extended over the summer; and that a stronger network be set up between schools and the workplace.

Other ideas put forth were that workshops and information sessions be held with people presently employed in certain careers; workshops should be given on the weekends for setting up student businesses; and, that the present career days be given in greater depth.

Some of the concerns that students in Yellowknife had were that it's difficult to get jobs while in high school, but students need part-time jobs, they feel, year-round to get the experience. Another concern is that in the communities the chance for student employment is even less; less than in Yellowknife, for example. The career program in the schools, they feel, is not suited to community situations.

I wonder what the government's long-term initiatives are for youth employment. I've just stated some ideas from the town hall meeting that should be considered.

Also, I wonder what our government's short-term plans are for summer employment this year. I understand...

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Student Summer Employment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Ootes, conclude your statement.

Student Summer Employment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder what our government's short-term plans are for summer employment this year. I understand that Mr. Dent was to meet this week with federal government representatives concerning how much money is coming to the NWT for student summer employment, and I'm anxiously waiting for a report on that.

In my opinion, the funds are very late in coming because post-secondary students have finished their courses already and have been job hunting for over a month. I sincerely hope that the GNWT also will not use these funds to hire students at the casual wage rate of $22 an hour which, I understand, under the collective agreement, in some cases, they have to. I hope that we will see use of those funds provide a basic student wage, and in order to maximize the number of students who can be hired in government.

In order to take advantage of these one-time funds, I hope the personnel services of this government can arrange a special student rate more suited to the beginning skills of students, either by an immediate arrangement with the union or by temporary legislation. We have little time left to institute this temporary program and I would hope we don't let this opportunity slip by. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Student Summer Employment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Need For Executive Representation In Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Qujannamiik, Uqaqtii. I wish to make a few further comments about the need for executive representation in the Baffin region. I know that this government made the decision to terminate the regional director's position in all regions as a financial restraint measure and I know that most Members of this Assembly, except the Members from Baffin, supported this decision. 1, therefore, accept that the decision was made and the positions are gone.

However, Mr. Speaker, I wish to point out to the Premier and his Cabinet that I still believe that they have a strong need for a representative of the Cabinet to be located in the region. My main concern is that our government should be represented at the executive level in the Baffin region in the years leading up to Nunavut. We already know that the federal government is planning on significantly enlarging their presence in Nunavut; especially, I suspect, in Iqaluit.

I believe that our government needs someone senior in place who can represent the government as a whole and represent the views of this Legislature and the Cabinet as the federal government enlarges its presence in Nunavut. Of course, we want to get along with the new federal departments and bureaucrats who will be moving into Nunavut, but I also believe that we should have someone there who will protect the interests of this government and this Assembly and monitor what is going on. I know that the plan is that various superintendents will coordinate responses on an issue-by-issue basis, and I understand that Municipal and Community Affairs will have a major role in filling the former functions of the regional director. However, Mr. Speaker, I am doubtful that one or more superintendents can easily assume the duties of what was a busy office of four persons.

As we all know, our superintendents are busier than ever before...

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Need For Executive Representation In Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for High Arctic is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Barnabas.

Need For Executive Representation In Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 586

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Qujannamiik, Uqaqtii. ...dealing with financial restraint, employee morale, lay-offs and turnover. Mr. Speaker, I am not only concerned about the "fix-it" role that regional directors have played in the Baffin region, as I mentioned in my Member's statement yesterday. I am more concerned now about the role of the regional director in representing and, if necessary, protecting the interests of the entire territorial government.

I believe that as we move rapidly towards implementing division, it will be especially important to have good communications and working relationships with Inuit organizations and the federal government which is moving back into the Eastern Arctic in a big way. They will be spending $32 million in capital and operations and maintenance in the next few years up to 1999. For the past 25 years in the Baffin, regional directors have represented the Department of the Executive of the territorial government.

I am making these comments, Mr. Speaker, to respectfully suggest to the Premier and the government that some thought must be given now to new ways of establishing a better presence for the executive in the Baffin region. I hope the Premier and Members of Cabinet agree with me that it is especially important that our government have strong and senior representation in the Baffin at the same time as a major transition to the new Nunavut Government and the establishment of a new territorial capital is under way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Need For Executive Representation In Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Roland.

Programs For Youth
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to bring up the issue of youth. Mr. Speaker, I mentioned a number of times, in this House and in committee meetings, the importance of programs that concern the youth. It is good to see that we have some programs that are taking the initiative of trying to address the problems that face us today concerning youth, in education and health. This government needs to do more. I would like to take the time to point out that there are people who, even though we are in times of financial restraint, are continuing to work for the youth.

In Inuvik, we have a group of people who are working on a youth centre project and they are doing the best they can in these times. They are looking at the youth as potential for the future and a way they can keep us moving ahead instead of being problems later on in life. It is that kind of initiative, Mr. Speaker, we need to take and we need to help them provide opportunities for the youth and not just in sports and activities, but in real programs that the youth can utilize to better educate themselves and be better contributors to the future of the Northwest Territories.

I think, we, as a government, should be starting to develop new ways to deal with these people in times of difficulty. I think in the next little bit and as we come up to the next time we start dealing with budgets, we should be focusing on these. Thank you.

Programs For Youth
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Drug Abuse And Addiction Problems Of Youth In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak on why community wellness should be focused on our youth. Listening to Mr. Ootes, I am glad to see that the federal government sees youth employment as top priority. I am concerned that too narrow a focus on employment will not help the youth of our nation. Many of our youth face tremendous barriers in their search for a place in Canadian society. This is especially true with aboriginal youth and youth in northern Canada. Some of these barriers are shared with all Canadian youth: the changing economy; the decline in manufacturing and resource industries; and, the rise of service industry.

There are some barriers which affect aboriginal and northern youth in much higher numbers. One of the highest barriers is that of substance abuse. We have tremendous problems with the abuse of drugs, alcohol and other intoxicants in the North. It should be obvious to the young person who is enslaved by addiction, that they are not likely to have very good employment prospects. Not only would an addicted youth be unlikely to get a good job, but he or she is unlikely to get an adequate education.

Addicted youth, rather than contributing to our society, are far more likely to represent a heavy burden on our strained social system. They will require more health care services, more remedial education, more social assistance payments and more intervention than would youth who are drug free. If we want to see the youth employment situation improve for northern and aboriginal youth, we have to address problems such as addictions. That is why I am confused by the mixed messages put out by both the federal and territorial governments. On the one hand, the government speaks of youth as a priority and funds training initiatives, the federal Taskforce on Youth and other projects.

On the other hand, the federal government takes money away from projects that are already making a positive difference to our youth. The territorial government also says there are no funds for this. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Drug Abuse And Addiction Problems Of Youth In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Erasmus.

Drug Abuse And Addiction Problems Of Youth In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 587

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 1993, the federal government started funding a pilot project to address adolescent solvent abuse in the North. The Northern Addictions Services adolescent solvent abuse treatment program has been a great success to date. Starting with eight beds managed by Northern Addictions Services, the program has helped 60 youth on the road to healing.

As I said at another time, the Northwest Territories has the youngest population in Canada. The 1991 census showed that over half our population was under the age of 25. Given that we have the highest birth rate in the country, that figure will probably be even higher when the 1996 census results are tabled.

The mixed messages we are sending to our youth are not very helpful about where our youth fit in amongst the governments' priorities. We need to be sure our youth are healthy first, ahead of anything else. All the training programs and educational strategies in the world are a complete waste of time and money to youth who are coping with the slavery of drugs, alcohol and solvents. If the federal government and the territorial government want to be taken seriously on the issue of youth employment and other youth initiatives, then a holistic approach is needed. Don't just look at issues like the transition from school to work, difficulties with labour market entry, or real and perceived employment barriers. Look at the health of our children; look at providing the services needed to help families overcome problems of substance abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, disease and inadequate housing.

We have many examples in the North of youth who have applied themselves with dedication and hard work and have developed into productive, happy, healthy adults with growing families. If we can strengthen the health of all of our youth physically, emotionally and spiritually, then we can be sure that all of our youth will have a much better chance of making the transition.

Mr. Speaker, Yellowknife is different from any other community in the North. The population in Yellowknife has increased by 1,000 in just over one year. In some cases, we could fit two or three of our Members' communities into that population increase. One of my constituents has indicated that you can buy drugs, any kind of drugs, as easy as buying candy in Yellowknife. He told me that a 14 year old was approached by a drug dealer who wanted to sell cocaine in cough syrup to that child.

The child also told my constituent that he could buy marijuana joints for $5 a piece on the streets of Yellowknife. My constituent also told me that drug dealers are getting 14 and 15-year-old girls high on drugs -- whether by shooting up intravenous injections or by other means -- and then they sell their bodies to their customers; prostitution, Mr. Speaker, amongst our youth in Yellowknife. As I say, I don't think any other community is like that.

This is why I am saying that community wellness should address the youth, particularly in Yellowknife. When this government makes money available for community wellness, we need to put guidelines in place to use that money for our youth. Thank you.

--- Applause

Drug Abuse And Addiction Problems Of Youth In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Commercial Fishing In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, commercial fishing is a very important sector of the economy in the area that I represent. For years, I have listened to the pros and cons, the good and the bad aspects of our central fish marketing agency; the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. I have heard the reports of the good old days of commercial fishing when several private buying companies tried and sold our resource to ready markets. I have heard about the good and respectable living that

commercial fishermen made and the money they contributed to Hay River's economy.

However, times have changed and a federally legislated and controlled marketing board moved in and was going to be the answer. Since this has been in place, I continue to hear about things like the lack of adequate prices for our product, the lack of processing and related jobs for northerners, the marketing corporation's resistance to buying less desirable species, which ended up going to waste, and about the lack of efficiency of FFMC in identifying and delivering our world class product to potential markets.

The debates go on. Some like the present system and some don't. What I am concerned about is the resources of the Great Slave Lake. Are we managing it in the best and most sustainable way that we can? Are we receiving the most direct and indirect benefits for our northern residents from this valuable resource? I don't know when this whole issue was looked at last, but I would suggest that the experts on the subject are the commercial fishermen themselves. I would like to see this government undertake a very comprehensive assessment of how this valuable resource is being managed or, should I say, mismanaged. Thank you.

Commercial Fishing In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien.

Care Of NWT Elders
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to comment briefly on a shameful situation that is existing in my region of Kivallivik. Mr. Speaker, this government has placed our precious elders in a very frightening situation. Mr. Speaker, with the adjustment of the fee schedule for elders living in government-run centres, in Arviat alone we will have six elders who will be leaving the centre due to the fact that they cannot afford to stay there. Mr. Speaker, these elders will be going back to live with their extended families in situations where there is overcrowding and they will not get the care and time they deserve because the families they will be living with are presently working and trying their best to look after their children.

Mr. Speaker, this is not my idea of treating our elders, the pioneers of the North, with respect and dignity. I will be addressing this issue later on to the appropriate Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker,

Care Of NWT Elders
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Unemployment Rate In Communities Of The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 588

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We would all like to have the freedom to live where we want. For some of us, it might be the place of our birth. For others, it might be a larger community. Unfortunately, the reality for many is that we have to go where the jobs are. Even within this House, we have evidence of just that. The Premier has requested that his Ministers move to Yellowknife simply because that is where they are needed to do the job. It has finally dawned on me why, in one community, we have a small

unemployment rate and in another, the unemployment rate is very high. The simple fact of the matter is, there aren't enough jobs in the communities with the higher unemployment.

In my community of Yellowknife, we have a low unemployment rate because if people don't have a job, they have to leave and go to where they can find one. It is a basic rule of the wage economy. Everyone, I believe, would love to have a Lac de Gras at the edge of their community. It would be so nice and convenient. The reality is, Mr. Speaker, this is not the case. People who want jobs will have to inconvenience their lives and be prepared to go where the work is. This is nothing more than what the Ministers in this House have done. I would ask MLAs to encourage their constituents to look for work and be prepared to move to find it.

Let's look at the aboriginal people as an example. Aboriginal people who lived on the land went to where the food was. They migrated to different areas in order to sustain a food supply. Now, in our wage economy, we must use that simple principle and go to where the jobs are which will provide us with the means to supply food for our families. Some aboriginal people still choose to live their traditional lifestyles of living off the land. I commend them for that. For some, this lifestyle is not their first choice and it is those who must seek a sustainable lifestyle in the wage economy and go to where the jobs are. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Unemployment Rate In Communities Of The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 589

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Picco on May 16th with respect to the application of seniors' housing rates. The full transfer of the property management function for the government's inventory of staff housing units to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation was completed in April of this year. This transfer does not change any of the terms and conditions for employees who occupy staff housing.

Housing Corporation policies, such as rates for seniors, apply only to tenants in public housing. These policies do not apply to tenants in staff housing. The policies that govern the terms and conditions for tenants in staff housing continue to be the responsibility of the Financial Management Board. The role of the Housing Corporation, acting as property manager, is to ensure that these policies are adhered to.

As part of the government's commitment to ensure that all housing is managed as efficiently as possible, in cases where staff housing units are no longer required for that program, one of the options that will be considered is converting them into social housing units. This will be determined on a case-by-case basis. Only when this occurs, would the social housing policies of the Housing Corporation apply.

Further Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq.

Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased to see that, yesterday, the Deputy Premier tabled the interim measures for the contracting procedures to comply with article 24 of the Nunavut final agreement. I was wondering why these are only interim measures and not permanent government policy. Thank you.

Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Deputy Premier, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as the Member is aware, it takes some time to consult and implement a government policy. Cabinet felt that time is of the essence. We need to implement these measures immediately. We need to get the Inuit workers and businesses participating as much as possible in the upcoming contracting season. Therefore, we have implemented these measures in the interim. In the meantime, we will be working with NTI to develop a policy to be tabled in September.

Return To Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq.

Supplementary To Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recently, in the article of Nunatsiaq News, the president of NTI is of the view that the GNWT is not in favour of the four birthright corporations owning and contracting all the new infrastructure to be built in Nunavut. Could the Deputy Premier please explain exactly what the GNWT position is on this? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 290-13(3): Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Interim Measures For

Further Return To Question 290-13(3): Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 589

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, by way of background, I think it is important to know that there are several issues here. First, the decision by the federal government to use Public Works Canada as the infrastructure manager for infrastructure construction in Nunavut, rather than the GNWT. The GNWT took exception to that because we are of the view that we can do that cheaper and can build more infrastructure with the amount of dollars that are there than the federal government. At the same time, they have also indicated their interest to make a special deal with NTI birthright development corporations, to own and construct this infrastructure.

When the GNWT raised its objections on who will do the managing, because of the cost factor, I think it was immediately interpreted by NTI to mean that we were somehow not in favour of their birthright development corporations being involved. We have tried to make it clear to them, since then, that it is a GNWT position that the birthright development corporations have an important and critical role to play in the infrastructure development of Nunavut and I've said that many, many times.

However, related to that, it is my own view that it is important we foster individual Inuit businesses, whether on their own or in partnership with others, to make sure that we have a large number and a broad base of businesses that will support the Nunavut economy, rather than the economy being dependent on three or four major corporations. I've tried to make that clear, but I can't seem to get through to NTI for one reason or another, but that is the view.

We are in favour of the birthright development corporations and they should be involved. So should the GNWT and all Inuit of Nunavut. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 290-13(3): Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Question 290-13(3): Interim Measures For Contracting Procedures Re Nfa
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the Premier is regarding aboriginal rights, with regard to how programs and services are delivered and also cut. Have the aboriginal groups been involved in any way through deliberations, or made aware of these cuts and how they affect the whole question of the rights and obligations that the federal government has to aboriginal people under treaty rights, and also how funds have been acquired from block funding from the federal government on behalf of aboriginal people?

Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my understanding that aboriginal groups have been consulted, as well as all public in the Northwest Territories, for any cuts that this government is making. As far as the federal government responsibility for aboriginal rights and the federal government's legal responsibility to aboriginal people, we have raised this issue many times; that we, as a government, feel that the federal government has not lived up to its legal obligations to aboriginal people on many of the programs. Thank you.

Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You say they have been consulted, but what was the method of consultation? Was it by telephone, by letter or by public meetings?

Supplementary To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if all Members of the Legislative Assembly met with their constituents, but I can say that I did because I had public meetings in my riding and that included all people from my riding, including treaty and Metis people who gave myself advice, just like they would give every other Member in this House advice of what to cut, what not to cut and what to try to maintain. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

With regard to devolution of programs, we've heard that you have been doing block funding agreements with municipalities. Yet, there are bands and Metis locals within those municipalities who are presently looking at the same thing, either through self-government negotiations or else through looking at programs and services that they may be interested in. Have they been involved through those block funding arrangements, and how will it affect the Metis locals or bands in those communities through community transfers?

Supplementary To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We made it very clear at the outset of this government that we will be consulting and talking to aboriginal leaders throughout the Northwest Territories. I'm very confident that Mr. Antoine, who is in charge of Aboriginal Affairs, is dealing with that issue and working with the aboriginal groups to get a protocol agreement signed so that this government will recognize band councils as well as Metis locals as a government structure in the communities. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Question 291-13(3): Delivery Of Programs In Relation To Aboriginal And Treaty Rights
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko, you asked two questions in your first question so you have asked four questions. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education with respect to my comments. I believe that there is a big problem of paying summer students, in some cases, $22 per hour. This is because of our collective agreement. I'm wondering if the Minister has considered discussing this with his Cabinet colleagues to consider legislating students out of the collective agreement, such as has been done with the firefighters.

Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 590

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister responsible for the FMBS has already informed this House that that issue was discussed with the union and was not one of the areas in which agreement could be found. I do not believe that the Minister has indicated anything but support for the collective bargaining process, so I don't believe that that is a possible response at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

In relation to that, I'm wondering what the government is doing to increase summer employment. How much money was transferred from the federal government for summer employment?

Supplementary To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Dent, two questions.

Further Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no money was transferred from the federal government to the GNWT for youth summer employment. The program to which I had referred earlier was the $300 million program that the federal government had announced some time ago. In meetings with Human Resources Development Canada, as of today, we're informed that the Alberta/Northwest Territories region of Human Resources Development Canada still has not had its budget finalized by Ottawa. Until it is, they will not know how many dollars are available for summer youth employment programs in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I'm wondering if the Minister could tell us, simply because the students from universities, colleges and institutions are coming back -- and, in some cases, are already back -- in the North, and they're becoming quite anxious about jobs. In Yellowknife alone there are 230. I wonder if the Minister could tell us if he has an indication of when the federal government may indicate they'll have a decision on this.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe I told the House earlier that Human Resources Development Canada had indicated they hoped to have the program in place for July 1st. Mr. Speaker, I think it's important to point out that Education, Culture and Employment has been working cooperatively with Human Resources Development Canada to create more opportunities for youth employment in the Northwest Territories. The federal student employment program which is under way right now provides employers with a wage subsidy and it assists community groups to match students with jobs.

In terms of student summer employment with the Government of the Northwest Territories, in order to assist students to find summer employment with the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Personnel Secretariat will continue to coordinate summer student employment in Yellowknife and departments will hire students in other regions.

The regional career centres which are operated by Education, Culture and Employment will assist by providing job search skills and career counselling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Question 292-13(3): Students' Summer Wages Under Collective Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Question 293-13(3): Status Of Rcmp Reorganization
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice. Could the Minister indicate the status of the RCMP reorganization that he indicated would be taking place, as well as indicate the possible savings that will hopefully be accrued back to the Government of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Question 293-13(3): Status Of Rcmp Reorganization
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 293-13(3): Reorganization Status Of Rcmp
Question 293-13(3): Status Of Rcmp Reorganization
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the RCMP regionalization plan is still under way. They're keeping us apprised of developments as it moves forward. There aren't any identified savings to date because it is a moving study. They're anticipating, by the end of the 1996 year or during the course of this year, that they will have some of those numbers firmed up, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 293-13(3): Reorganization Status Of Rcmp
Question 293-13(3): Status Of Rcmp Reorganization
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 591

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice and it's with regard to a previous year. There was a bowhead whale hunt in 1994. I'm wondering what the Department of Justice has done about the charges being laid. Is there a possibility of the charges that have been laid being dropped? There are a lot of organizations, such as ITC and Nunavut Tunngavik, who have supported the hunters in Igloolik; however, the GNWT Department of Justice has never been involved in this issue. The bowhead whale hunt that happened did not interfere with aboriginal rights. I think it's within the aboriginal people's rights to hunt the bowhead whale. The reason they hunted the bowhead whale was to grant an elder's wish to have some more muktuk before he

passed on. A lot of regions in the Nunavut area supported the hunt. However, I want to find out what the Minister of Justice will do to make the federal government drop the charges for those hunters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Just to make it clear with the Members, I'm not aware of the case itself and I understand that the charges may have been dropped. But if they haven't been dropped and it's still in the courts, then the question must be ruled out of order. I'll ask the Minister for clarification on this issue.

Return To Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the charges were federal charges from the Attorney General's office. To my understanding it is still before the courts, so I can't comment on that. Thank you.

Return To Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Question 294-13(3): Charges Re Beluga Whale Hunt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Under the sub judice convention, we can't ask questions when matters are still in front of the courts if a decision hasn't been made yet, so I must rule the question out of order.

--- Ruled Out of Order.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, on May 8, 1996, during his Minister's statement, Mr. Arlooktoo indicated to this House that he had a meeting with the federal Minister. His senior officials met with the senior officials of the federal Minister of Housing. He also indicated there was an additional $9 million given to the territorial government from the federal government. He also indicated that there is a need for housing in the area of 3,000 units in the NWT, if I'm not mistaken.

Gjoa Haven happens to be one of the communities in the Territories that has a severe housing shortage. People are now living in units without running water. Gjoa Haven is also one of the fastest-growing populations in the Territories. Will the community of Gjoa Haven be seriously considered for allocation of units from the additional $9 million? Will the community of Gjoa Haven be considered seriously by the Minister? Thank you.

Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I believe what the Member is talking about is the initiative announced by the federal government on northern housing; while the federal government, on one hand, is taking $ 10 million off our base, they announced one-time funding on remote housing for $10 million. It's a current issue that we're working on. The northern remote housing dollars that were identified will be

distributed and used, based on need in the communities. I understand and appreciate that the Member's community, along with many others, is in dire need of extra housing. So, based on that -the needs survey and applications -- I will assure the Member that it will receive fair consideration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to my understanding, having had a meeting with the people of Gjoa Haven, having had to visit the homes in the community, I know there is a need for housing in that particular community and I believe that community deserves to have very serious consideration from the Minister. How soon will the Minister determine which community will be allocated much-needed units within the system? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, the allocations are based on need, on actual surveys that are done in the communities. 1, as Minister, do not play a part in hand-picking communities and individuals who will get housing, but I am aware that Gjoa Haven is on the list, as many, many other communities are, of needing houses immediately. That's all I can report.

Further Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize the honourable Minister is not in the group which hand-picks which community will be allocated the units. How soon will the Minister be able to tell me and this House that government will determine which community will be allocated, using the funds that this government has received from the federal government? How soon will be the Minister be able to tell me which community will be allocated the units? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 592

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, about two weeks ago, I wrote to all Members to inform them of the allocations of houses to their communities, based on this year's construction season. Since then, the Housing Corporation has been working on a second list of allocations to communities with this new federal money. I expect to have this list within the next 10 days to two weeks and, once I receive that, I will provide it to the Member.

Further Return To Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Question 295-13(3): Housing Allocations For Gjoa Haven
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the honourable Minister of Social Services, Mr. Ng, is with regard to a question I raised in my Member's statement about aboriginal people who originate from one of the bands in the Northwest Territories, who are registered Indians under a band in the Northwest Territories, but live in southern Canada for reasons of health. They may have cancer, or have gone south because they had TB, but they are still registered on the band list in those communities.

I'll use an example. For instance, in Arctic Red River, the daughter of Nap Norbert passed away from cancer, outside of Edmonton. Because of the new policy this government has put in place -transferring people north for burial was eliminated -- the band had to incur the cost of $6,000 to bring that individual's body home for burial. Yet that individual is a band member of Tsiigehtchic.

With regard to the non-insured health benefits and those sorts of programs, this is aboriginal people's homeland. It doesn't matter if they live in Alberta, New Mexico or Brazil, this is still where they come from. I would like to know if the Minister is willing to consider taking a look at that policy, and also consult the bands to review that policy to see how this can be resolved.

Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, where an individual lives, no matter what status they have or where they originated, is their personal choice. If that individual is not in our care, in a facility for medical purposes or social services purposes, in the case of a child, then we would not have ongoing responsibilities for providing services to a resident who was not in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a good point, yet this government derives 85 per cent of its revenues from the federal government and a large portion of those revenues come from the Department of Indian Affairs for status Indians. This was a band member who was an Indian, so you're telling me because this individual wasn't living here -even though you're willing to take money from the federal government for all aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories, which is based on the band lists -- that you will not fund those particular individuals.

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that contributions that are received for various services are based on a per capital basis, based on census statistics that are updated through the Department of Vital Statistics. I can't see how, if an individual doesn't reside in the Northwest Territories, we would be receiving funding for that individual, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What you're saying is the band list that the federal government has in the Department of Indian Affairs in Ottawa, a list of all registered Indians, every year the bands receive core funding based on this list and that this government does not require the same revenue based on the same formula.

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with respect to those band lists, the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs would have band funding, which is federal, and would not apply to this government, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister table in this House exactly how the allocation is made, with regard to Indian Affairs, for programs for the bands and those members so we can see exactly what you're talking about on that issue? Could you have that tabled in this House so we can see exactly how funds are allocated between the Department of Indian Affairs, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the particular aboriginal people who are registered under the Indian Act?

Supplementary To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

No, Mr. Speaker, because I don't have access to the information of federal funding to bands in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Question 296-13(3): Provision Of Services To Non-resident Band Members
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 593

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation and it's in reference to a

memo I got today with regard to the Department of Transportation establishing a plan for division. Apparently, the plan was approved by Cabinet and the Financial Management Board.

I would like to first make reference to the report by the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development. In its review, the committee recommended that the department not proceed with the planned transfer of PYs to Nunavut until incremental cost negotiations were finalized with the federal government. The department responded by stating that no substantial costs would be incurred until negotiations were completed. The committee, in turn, recommended that the Department of Transportation not incur any costs related to the transfer of PYs to Nunavut until negotiations are complete.

I'm informed that staffing for the first two years of the plan, 1995-96 and 1996-97, is essentially complete and investments have been made in office and computer equipment. There were two reasons for this. The second reason was to avoid major staff disruptions prior to division, by starting early to take advantage of vacancies that occur in Yellowknife in order to staff positions in the East. An assistant deputy minister position has been established and two other corporate positions were established in preparation for division. I understand these may be in Nunavut already.

With the completion of staffing of the three remaining positions, the eastern headquarters can operate for 1996. I wonder if the Minister could tell me ... My understanding was that no transfers were going to take place and no staffing was going to take place with regard to division.

Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member is referring to a document that he has received. It would be very good for me if I knew what document he was referring to. In the Department of Transportation, there are a lot of training documents and planning documents that are in existence. It might be one of the documents that he has access to. In reference to what the honourable Member is asking about, the last government had agreed to make changes to the Department of Transportation in terms of developing an eastern component of the Department of Transportation. This was done before I became the Minister of Transportation. There are planning documents in the works on how different scenarios could be developed.

It is good to do that because each department is looking at these things. Eventually there will be division. We have 33 more months before division and if we hold off on any of our plans or on how each department is going to look, we are going to be in trouble when division happens. So the Department of Transportation took the initiative in the last government to begin looking at how this department is going to function once division happens. There were some positions put in place by the last government. There is an assistant deputy minister in Rankin Inlet and there have been plans to put more PYs in the East. Upon the advisement of the standing committee, we put a hold on that. There are plans in place to do more of these transfers but, at the present time, this has been put on hold. Thank you.

Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Actually, the document I refer to is a covering letter that the Minister sent to the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development, of which I am a Member. The concern I have with this, Mr. Speaker, is that we, as a committee, were informed that no transfers would take place. There was one position established in March and yet the committee was meeting at that time. I am wondering why now we are learning that positions are being established. The committee should have been told about this. Why weren't we told about this?

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I knew exactly what position the honourable Member is talking about, perhaps I could be more precise in my answer. There was a position that was filled and the person who was in that position took on another job with another organization. This was a vacant position and we filled it. As for putting new PYs and new people into Nunavut in the Department of Transportation, we have taken direction of the standing committee and haven't moved any additional PYs into the East until we have done a review of the transfer. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My specific concern is I understand an assistant deputy minister position for Transportation has been established and that it is in Rankin Inlet. My second concern is this was done to take advantage of vacancies that occur in Yellowknife in order to staff positions in the East. That, to me, is a transfer, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to know why that has happened.

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 594

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Transportation, in the last government, made the decision to move PYs to the East. We are just following through with some of the PYs that have already been established in the East. As for putting additional PYs into the East, as per the planning document, we aren't going to do that until we review that process. For your information, the last government also moved Economic Development and

Tourism to the East, as well, into Iqaluit. They have positions that were established there under the last government.

Mr. Speaker, the specific PYs that were moved into Rankin, if you gave me clearer information on what the Member is talking about, perhaps I could be more specific in my answer.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Just to caution the Members, the present Ministers aren't responsible for decisions made by the previous assemblies or Ministers. I would also like to caution the Member that he is making reference to a document that isn't tabled in this House and isn't necessarily within the Minister's knowledge. Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

My apologies for that oversight in referring to that document. My concern extends beyond just the transfer of the positions, but also the incremental costs. It goes back to the question of are we identifying this as an incremental cost and passing that on to the federal government. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again, Mr. Speaker, the initiative of putting PYs into Nunavut in anticipation of the impeding division of the Northwest Territories was a decision made by the last government. I know there probably are incremental costs in that decision. However, the decision was made and our anticipation with the federal government was that any type of a transfer would be covered by the federal government. As we all know, we are told that $150 million has been identified by the federal government for any costs associated with creating Nunavut. As a result of that, we all should start taking a look at exactly what "incremental costs' for division means. I take the Member's question very seriously. Indeed, it is a cost that we inevitably have to start looking at very seriously to see what it really means. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Question 297-13(3): Dot's Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just a point of clarification, it was my understanding or recollection that we weren't going to cease looking at transfers to Nunavut, but we were going to look at a fair distribution of these positions. Could the Minister confirm that that was the case? That was my understanding of the issue, as it was raised in this House by me.

Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To which Minister, Mr. O'Brien?

Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

The Minister of Transportation.

Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the whole direction that the Department of Transportation has taken to the initiative that was started by the last government in creating an Eastern component of this department is looking at the establishment of the assistant deputy minister and his staff. As well, in the planning documents they have, looking at different scenarios of what kinds of positions should be established in the East.

Yes, I take the honourable Members question and he had indicated that the department will be reviewing these planning documents to see if we can accommodate the type of question that the honourable Member has been asking with regard to looking at the distribution of some of these positions in the planning documents. Thank you.

Return To Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Question 298-13(3): Distribution Of GNWT Positions To Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Given my statement today regarding the correlation between unemployment and a wage economy, could the Minister answer my question. Is there any curriculum taught in our schools that teaches the necessary facts regarding mobility and a wage economy?

Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Employment and Culture, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The CTS or career and technology studies program in schools would be the area in which this sort of education would come. I don't know if I can say that there's any specific module that would teach that, in order to take a job, a person must move. However, career and technology studies modules are, in fact, tied, in many ways, quite closely to the workplace so that students learn what is expected of employees in the workplace. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister consider incorporating some aspects of traditional aboriginal ways of survival into the curriculum, whereby children are taught how to sustain their lifestyle in comparing their traditional ways of migration to today's need to migrate in the wage economy?

Supplementary To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 595

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that sort of requirement is already in our curriculum. I believe the new Education Act, in fact, requires boards of education to ensure that the local culture is an integral part of the curriculum for each school. Some of the responsibility for this, though, has to come right from the community and from parents of students in teaching that kind of curriculum.

The object of education in the Northwest Territories is to prepare people to make productive choices. Whether that means a productive choice in how to better support themselves by living off the land or by surviving in the wage economy, the goal of the system is to prepare students for life's choices. I believe that our curricula are set up right now to deliver that kind of training to our young people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Question 299-13(3): Curricula On Mobility And Wage Economy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. In order for us to strategize that we need housing, in order for us to convince our counterpart, the federal government, in this case, we must update our housing needs study survey. My question to the honourable Minister is when was the last housing needs survey done within the jurisdiction of the NWT. Thank you.

Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I don't have the exact date, but it was in the late 1980s. The next housing needs survey is scheduled for next year.

Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. Mr. Speaker, I would have thought that, because we need to strategize in order to convince the federal government, the housing needs study should have been done about a year ago. My supplementary question is why wasn't the housing needs study done within the last couple of years when we know that there is a serious shortage of housing within the Territories. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I stand corrected. The last housing needs survey across the Territories was in 1992. Since then, there has been numerous correspondence and meetings between previous housing Ministers of the NWT and the federal government. 1, myself, have spoken to the federal minister of CMHC and I've written several letters. We are keeping the pressure on the federal government for additional housing. We make the argument that our core need of about 3,500 in the NWT houses in the NWT is not acceptable. The problem is that they are in the same financial situation as most other governments: they have limited funding. However, we are keeping the pressure on and the efforts by MLAs, including the Member raising these issues, is appreciated and it does help to raise the profile. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, every community across the NWT has a waiting list of people who want to move into a house. I would think that waiting list would be sufficient to determine how many houses are needed. My question is does the Minister have in his possession, in the office, the number on waiting lists for housing across the Territories from the communities. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, the local housing organizations in the communities do maintain lists of those who are on the waiting lists and they provide them to the Housing Corporation. I can find that document and provide it to the Member.

Further Return To Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Question 300-13(3): Housing Needs Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions Mr. Roland.

Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister responsible for Justice. In his opening statement, he made comments on the appointment of RCMP auxiliary members as peace officers. I would like to know if this program is available to other communities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 596

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, during the swearing-in ceremonies, I had the

opportunity to speak to the officer in charge of the program at the RCMP "G" Division. He advised me that they were looking at expanding this program into other major centres within the Northwest Territories in the immediate future. Thank you.

Return To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is there any program similar to this ongoing at the present time? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, not within the Northwest Territories, as I indicated in my statement. It's the first program to be established in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Question 301-13(3): Expansion Of Rcmp Auxiliary Force
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for FMBS. I request that the Minister briefly advise this House as to what plans, if any, are presently being drafted to ensure that an orderly and equitable approach to division takes place. If there are plans being drawn up now, what is the timing on this? Thank you.

Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Two questions.

Return To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In Cabinet at the present time, we have a Cabinet committee on division that is made up of Cabinet colleagues. I co-chair this committee with my colleague, Mr. Arlooktoo. We have a Nunavut Secretariat which is headed up by Tom Isaac, who I think some of you have met. There is clearly a need for this government to be somewhat visionary and move forward in terms of trying to develop departmental strategies as to division of the Territories; we can't sit and wait until April 1, 1999 and say, oops, what are we going to do. We're certainly working as fast as we can because I think we're a little behind schedule.

Some of us thought we were a bit of a visionary when we decided to put assistant deputy ministers in the Eastern Arctic as an example of how to do it. What we're trying to do here is move quickly to put departmental plans in place that address my honourable colleague's question of equity and fairness and having a plan in place -- a blueprint - that will allow us to move quickly to ensure that the two governments are ready and up and running on April 1, 1999. At this time, we certainly can't put everything on hold. We have to move aggressively and try to put a plan in place that everybody is reasonably comfortable with. If not, I suspect, Mr. Speaker, that we would end up in chaos and I'm certainly not prepared to let that happen. Thank you.

Return To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, my question is to the Minister responsible for FMBS. The second part of my question was what is the timing on these plans. When can we expect to see some portion of the work that's being conducted? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

John Todd Keewatin Central

Last week, I talked about the need for the MLAs and the constituency at large to get involved in this process. I'm hoping that if we do get concluded by late Wednesday night, we can have some serious discussion on this issue. I'm of the belief that we need to put a plan in place as quickly as possible and we need to implement some of it prior to 1999 if we're going to have any chance of two governments functioning in a reasonable way. There also has to be some balance in terms of political debate about what are incremental costs and what is being funded from within, et cetera.

In answer to my colleague, I don't have an actual time line right now because we need further discussion and I need to involve, as quickly as we can, the ordinary Members. I want to assure him that my philosophy is to move quickly, to put the plans in place that we're comfortable with, and I would go as far as saying, at the risk of being contradicted, that we should move prior to April 1, 1999 and not wait. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Question 302-13(3): GNWT Division Implementation Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government has many quasi-judicial boards and agencies. One such board is the Public Utilities Board. My question for the Minister of the PUB is what are the terms of reference of said PUB in reporting to the Minister. Thank you.

Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 597

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I have a bit of a concern with regard to the connotation of the term used, "PUB." I think the Members use the term P-U-B or else Public Utilities Board. Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rightly said. Mr. Speaker, I don't have at my fingertips the terms of reference for the Public Utilities Board. However, I would be only too happy to provide that to my honourable colleague later on this week or over the weekend while we're discussing larger issues with his constituency in Iqaluit.

Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Item 6, oral questions.

Supplementary To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be waiting for the terms of reference. Are the positions on the PUB political appointees or are they judicially appointed?

Supplementary To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Public Utilities Board is appointed by the Minister in Cabinet with full consultation of the Members and others within the larger constituency of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the amalgamation plans of SAPS, will there be any logistic problems with the directorate of SAPS administering the financial and other aspects of the PUB, such as potential conflict? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

John Todd Keewatin Central

Safety and Public Services has a very, very minor role in the Public Utilities Board. The Public Utilities Board, I believe, does most of their financial administration themselves. The payroll may come out of the government, I'm not sure, but ... It really works as a quasijudicial board, as Mr. Picco has said, and the role of the government in it, through Safety and Public Services, is minimal. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Question 303-13(3): Terms Of Reference For Pub
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to Opening Address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Picco.

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Report On Bill 13

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Infrastructure has reviewed Bill 13 and wish to report that Bill 13, Loan Authorization Act, 1996-97 is now ready for Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Enuaraq.

Report On Bill 6

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Social Programs has reviewed Bill 6 and wishes to report that Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Education Act, S.N.W.T., 1995, c.28, is now ready for Committee of the Whole, as amended and reprinted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Krutko.

Report On Bill 5

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development has reviewed Bill 5 and wishes to report that Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act, is now ready for Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports On Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Enuaraq.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 598

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 54-13(3), a letter from the Honourable Fred Mifflin, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, to the honourable Goo Arlooktoo, dated May 16, 1996, and also a letter from the Honourable Fred Mifflin, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to Ben Kovic, chair of the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, also dated May 16, 1996. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Krutko.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 598

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 55-13(3), the final report from the Metis Nation education research project.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 598

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 598

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Rule 42(10), I wish to table Tabled Document 56-13(3), response to Petition 19-13(3), presented by Mr. Miltenberger and responded to by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 57-13(3), responses to Petition 15-13(3), Petition 16-13(3), Petition 17-13(3), Petition 18-13(3), Petition 20-13(3), Petition 21-13(3), Petition 22-13(3), Petition 23-13(3), Petition 24-13(3), Petition 25-13(3), Petition 26-13(3), Petition 27-13(3), Petition 28-13(3), Petition 31-13(3), Petition 32-13(3), Petition 33-13(3), Petition 34-13(3), Petition 35-13(3), Petition 36-13(3), Petition 37-13(3), Petition 38-13(3), Petition 39-13(3), Petition 40-13(3), Petition 41-13(3), Petition 42-13(3), Petition 43-13(3), Petition 44-13(3), Petition 46-13(3) and Petition 47-13(3). The petitions are presented by Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Barnabas, Mr. Roland, Mr. Arlooktoo, Mr. Steen, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Ng, Mr. Henry, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Morin and the Clerk, and responded to by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, concerning the public review of Report of MLA Compensation.

Mr. Speaker in accordance with section 183(4) of the Elections Act, I wish to table Tabled Document 58-13(3), candidates' returns respecting election expenses and contributions for the following candidates: In the electoral district of Amittuq, for Titus Allooloo; and, in the electoral district of High Arctic, for Larry Audialuk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, May 27, 1996, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that the appointment date for Ms. Tutcho to assume her duties as Languages Commissioner be effective June 1, 1996. Thank you.

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mr. O'Brien.

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, May...

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I'm sorry, we're on motions. Mr. O'Brien.

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek permission to return to item 14, notices of motion.

Motion 11-13(3): Appointment Date Of Languages Commissioner
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Kivallivik is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 14, notices of motion. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. O'Brien.

Motion 12-13(3): Rates Charged To Seniors Resident In Long-term Care Facilities
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, May 28, 1996, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that the Legislative Assembly reaffirm its support and commitment to the care, well-being and good health of our senior citizens;

And further, that the Minister of Health and Social Services re-examine the initiative and reconsider the decision to standardize the room and board rates applicable to seniors residing in long-term care facilities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 12-13(3): Rates Charged To Seniors Resident In Long-term Care Facilities
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Ng.

Bill 15: Statute Revision Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 599

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that Bill 15, Statute Revision Act, 1996-97, be read for the first time. Thank you.

Bill 15: Statute Revision Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 15: Statute Revision Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 599

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Bill 15: Statute Revision Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 599

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

Bill 15, Statute Revision Act, has been read for the first time. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97; Committee Report 1-13(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; Committee Report 2-13(3), Standing Committee on Infrastructure Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; Committee Report 3-13(3), Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; Committee Report 4-13(3), Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; and, Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 599

The Chair John Ningark

The committee will come to order. When we concluded yesterday we were considering Municipal and Community Affairs, and we have a number of

items to be considered in this committee. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I would recommend that we continue with the departmental review of Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97, and continue with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee that we continue with Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97, and with Municipal and Community Affairs? Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Department Of Municipal And Community Affairs

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Would the honourable Minister like to bring in your witnesses, or do you want to ... We'll take about a 10-minute break and then come back.

--- SHORT RECESS

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

The committee will come back to order. I would like to ask the honourable Minister of MACA if she wishes to bring in any witnesses.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring in my witnesses now. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that the Minister will bring in the witnesses?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

We have a quorum. Sergeant-at-Arms, bring in the witnesses, please.

For the record, Madam Minister, will you please introduce the witnesses to the committee?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is my deputy minister, Penny Ballantyne; to my right, Vern Christensen, ADM for the department; and, Jim France, director of finance. Thank you.

Line By Line

Community Development

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. We are on page 10-16 of the Municipal and Community Affairs 1996-97 estimates. Community development, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $59.702 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Page 10-17, detail of capital, community development, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $175,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $4.02 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Detail of capital, community development, buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $795,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Baffin, $2.865 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Keewatin, $2.142 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are on page 10-21. Buildings and works, Kitikmeot, total region, $315,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $521,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Kitikmeot, total region, $86,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, $607,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 600

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, headquarters, page 10-22, total region, $1.425 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Fort Smith, total region, $4.036 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Inuvik, page 10-23, $356,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I had a question with regard to the distribution of water and sewage programs funding. My question relates both to the Inuvik region and to other regions as well. How is this formula arrived at? For instance, what would the population of a community have to kw, in order to be entitled to certain facilities? Could I get an explanation from the Minister as to how this formula is arrived at?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be referring that question to Vern Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Christensen

Mr. Chairman, thank you. I wonder if we could get some additional clarification on the question. Is the Member referring to the population to be eligible for capital infrastructure?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, that is correct. I am referring to capital infrastructure, including vehicles and facilities, for the water and sewage program.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To be eligible for funding under our capital assistance programs, there is no population per se that makes a community eligible. It is whether or not they have been identified as a community within the policy document itself. It lists all of the communities that are recognized as eligible for funding and similarly, under the settlement capital assistance policy, it lists those communities that are settlements or unincorporated communities that are eligible for capital funding. It isn't a population figure, but rather it is whether or not the community is identified as being eligible pursuant to the policy. There is a list of communities attached to the policy in each case. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Inuvik, total region. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Surely there must be some guidance as to what qualifies as a community or what qualifies as 10 people living out of town or building a town of their own.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I will also refer that question to Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The group of communities that are identified as being eligible are those communities that the Government of the Northwest Territories has traditionally recognized as communities. There are some very small communities in that list that are eligible for capital funding. To repeat again, there is no minimum community size. The merits of including those communities as eligible under the policy were considered on individual merit and are specifically identified for clarity within the policy itself.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, perhaps I could be a little more specific for the witnesses benefit. I know in the capital plan that, for instance, the community of Colville Lake, has a request for water and sewage facilities for $8,000. There are about 80 or 90 people there. In a community like Trout Lake, which has a population of 55 people, we have $800,000 in capital. That is my question. I am trying to arrive at how the department justifies a water treatment plant for 55 people that is worth over $1 million. Why is a community of 80 people like Colville Lake happy with $8,000? I believe that is a vehicle to haul water with. Are we giving people what they need or what they want?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 601

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If a community is established with human beings in it, then we, as a government, have the responsibility to make sure the community people, whether it is a small or large community, have the same facilities as any other in Canada. The communities, just because they are small, it doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. I understand what the Member is asking; that small communities should get smaller amounts of funding for water and sewage. I will refer the question to Mr. Christensen. I would just like to say that even if it is a small community or a large community, if it has anything to do with the safety or health of the people in the community then, as a responsible government, we should be assessing the needs of that community and helping them in any way we can. I will refer the question to Mr. Vern Christensen on the details. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 602

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 602

Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the question of whether the capital plan reflects what people want versus what the government thinks they need; as a department, we have conducted the capital planning process in close consultation with the community governments and have tried to identify what the needs are in the community with the community councils. Hopefully, that is reflected in our plan as to what they want and also what the Government of the Northwest Territories is prepared to invest in in terms of community infrastructure. It is a lot of money to improve the water supplies in some of these very small communities. The unique features of those communities are such that that requires that work to be done if we are to provide a safe drinking water supply to them.

Colville Lake is further back in terms of the development of its local infrastructure. It is one of the communities that has been approved for funding under our settlement capital assistance policy. In the department's capital forecasting plan, we do show similar improvements for Colville, in spite of the fact that they are a small community, in years four and five in our capital forecasting plan. So we are treating the communities consistently, but it is a significant investment to improve these water supplies in these small communities.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 602

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Community development. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 602

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think all of us would agree that people require the basic water and sewage treatment facilities, but I do question how this government distributes the resources. I take into consideration that, during the past two to three weeks, I have been hearing from the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko, that he has very bad water in his community. It is a very big community, yet this government has no money to help him. I really think that this government should allocate funding to where it is needed the most. I have been told many times and my communities have been told many times that funding is needed more somewhere else; therefore, you are going to have to learn to do without. We have been told that many times. I wonder if all the communities have been told the same thing. By the looks of the way the capital is distributed in this budget, I am beginning to have my doubts.

I question how this department distributed their funding. I read in the five-year capital plan that the justification for the water and sewage facilities for Trout Lake, Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte were at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance in 1993. There is a specific reference in Nahanni Butte where it says, even though the community does not have the numbers, a water truck was going to be approved. That is right in the five-year capital plan that was given to me. That is why I raise this question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 602

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Member for this information. The money had already been committed and there are assessments made at the community level for what their needs are. For some communities in the Territories, it is harder to get water for them. Therefore, it might be more costly than other communities, whether they are small or large. It depends on where their water supply is. Before any funds are committed to a community for services, everyone knows that there have been assessments made at all levels before the funds are committed. At this time, we aren't able to take that money from that community and give it to another community. This was done before I was Minister of this department.

With regard to McPherson, I had said that we will be sending staff up there right away to deal with the situation and to give the community some options on their water supply. I will ask Mr. Christensen to answer how the funds are allocated. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to remind the Members that there have been many committees before but that the Minister is still the lead Minister at the present time. I would like to try and refrain from referring to a previous Minister of any department. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of the reference to the allocation of funding for Trout Lake and Nahanni Butte versus the funding for the water improvements in Fort McPherson, the intention of the department was to, first of all, do a planning study in 1997-98. Because of the uncertainty and what the outcome of that planning study would be, in the kinds of improvements that might be indicated as a result of that planning study, there were no additional amounts indicated in the capital forecasting plan of the department. The project that would be identified as being required as a result of that work would be budgeted for as a result of the study that was done.

In defence of what the department has put in its capital budget, there was a need identified that was associated with the water supply in Fort McPherson. However, due to the uncertainty of what might be the outcome of the investigation, resources weren't allocated as such. In response to the more current need that's been expressed, the department has agreed to advance that planning work so that we have that information earlier rather than later and can respond appropriately. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, just for clarification, I was not referring to the past Minister. I was referring to a statement in the five-year capital plan that says, "...the Standing Committee on Finance, 1993." I was not referring to the past Minister. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. I was reminding the Minister, when she refers to, "the commitment was made before I became a Minister." I was referring to the Minister and not to you. Total region. We have Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Barnabas. Mr. O'Brien.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question to the honourable Minister is what exactly are we getting for $800,000 for Trout La ke, with regard to these improvements? I notice that in the prior year there was $556,000 spent. I would be interested in hearing what this approximately $1.3 million consists of, the work. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 603

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. What page are you referring to?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Detail of capital, page 10-18.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 603

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree to go back to 10-18?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 603

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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Page 603

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we're getting for the community of Trout Lake for $800,000 is water supply improvements, water intake and water reservoir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik. Mr. O'Brien.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The second part of my question was what was the work that was carried out for $556,000 in the prior year, which I assume would be last year? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was $496,000 for design and construction, 1995-96; and construction is $800,000 this year.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith region. Mr. O'Brien, are you okay with that?

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Fine. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Let's go back to page 10-21. This is the Keewatin region, I believe. Page 10-22, Inuvik region. Page 10-23, total region is $356,000. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For a number of years now, we've been trying to get water for the water supply. I see this to Trout Lake and to our communities, it's $713,000. The vehicles, the water trucks usually have to travel five miles in order to get water. Is it the distance? I would like more clarification on this. The one on page 10-18.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree to go back to page 10-18? Agreed?

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to clarify this through translation. I will ask Mr. Vern Christensen to reply to that.

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Page 603

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The water supply source in Trout Lake is close to the community. However, in Arctic Bay, it's some distance away, I forget the exact distance, but it's some 10 kilometres, I believe. With trucked services, in the case of Arctic Bay, there is road access to the water lake. The intention, ultimately, would be to build a truck-fill station at that water lake for the community. However, why the improvements are happening in Trout Lake now and not happening in Arctic Bay is largely due to the priorities that have been established by the community in the capital planning discussions that have gone on. There has been some higher priority put on some other projects within the department's capital budget.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 603

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Barnabas.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn't realize that they needed that this year. This used to be the major concern by the Hamlet Council of Arctic Bay. I can tell him that it's quite urgent because we have to spend a lot of money on the upkeep of the vehicles because they have to travel quite a distance. How would I word this so that they can give us what we want in our community?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. According to the five-year capital plan for Arctic Bay for 1996-97, there is $80,000 for that; and, in 1997-98, it is $595,000, with a contribution from the hamlet of $5,000. The community has asked for it and it is in their capital plan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Perhaps we can approve the Inuvik region. The capital plan that is being referred to is, in fact, in the Baffin region which is next on the line-by-line. Shelf we approve the total region for Fort Smith and move on to Baffin, and we can talk about Arctic Bay at the appropriate time? Agreed?

--- Interjection

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

(Translation) It's on page 10-19, where it says Arctic Bay. They mention $80,000. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) I just wanted to make comments and be given an opportunity to raise my concerns when it comes to our communities. I will be able to say my concerns after we approve Inuvik region.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

With regard to the capital plan, under storage tank, Fort McPherson, $15,000, and it say future years, $730,000: What year is that $730,000 going to be allocated?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. In order for the Minister to find the right page, what page are you referring to, Mr. Krutko?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Page 10-18.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 604

The Chair John Ningark

Page 10-18.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 604

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Inuvik region.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 604

The Chair John Ningark

Okay. Inuvik region. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For Fort McPherson, an assessment will be made in 1996-97 for $15,000; design is in 1999 for $30,000; $700,000 in 2000-01; and future years is $10,000 to finish the project. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the problem that we are having in Fort McPherson -- probably this project should be moved forward instead of having to wait till the year 1999-2000. 1 think it's a little ways off. What is the process to move these capital projects up, instead of having to wait for such a long period of time; if it's considered an emergency issue or concern of the community that this is a critical item that should be moved up? What's the process for moving items up instead of having to wait till when they are scheduled for? We are talking three or four years here. We have a problem today; we can't wait three or four years to resolve it, and this may be one of the areas we can look at.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Community development, Inuvik region. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to ask Vern Christensen to talk about how it can be forwarded. It has to do with community planning and an assessment being made at the community level and priorizing their capital plan.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Assistant Deputy Minister.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The $15,000 that's in the plan now would be for assessing the condition of the treatment plant and the need for improvements. We are anticipating in the capital forecasting plan that improvements are required, but we are just not sure of the timing at this point, pending the results of the study. In the course of the next capital planning cycle, when we have the information coming out of that study, we would then be able to determine whether that work needed to be advanced, should stay the same or that the concerns are such that they can be delayed, in fact. But it depends on the outcome of that, and we would bring that information into the next planning process.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

You mentioned a study several times. Who do you see carrying out this study? Is it going to be an independent group doing the study, or will the study be done in-house by the department?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is usually done by the department's consultants. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I think that we have seen, in the past, study after study and complaint after complaint. It seems like they've been falling on deaf ears. I think it would probably be best that we look at an independent study in order to get an outside opinion on this. From what we have seen in our deliberations with the department, they are presently in the process of cutting, cutting, cutting. It seems the number of dollars that we see, especially in my region, for projects seem to be put off till the year 1999-2000. With regard to the capital plans for the Mackenzie Delta, we have the same problem in Aklavik where they have a run-down system. That project is also for quite a ways down the road.

Now you tell me that the project in Fort McPherson for the storage tank, where we are having a problem right now with the water quality, is not until the year 1999-2000. From the report I've seen from your department, it clearly states that this is a health issue where there are traces of cancer causing components in the water system.

In any other place in the country, people would be screaming, yelling and having petitions tabled in this House on this issue. But in this case, I think that we should seriously look at an independent study to do this work; no offence to the department, but I think we should seriously look at not only the infrastructure question but the health question, also, and move these projects up so that they can deal with the problem at hand.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I stated before, our department will go up there to make an assessment and look at options for the community. As soon as they come back with the report, we will sit with the MLA, David Krutko, and work with him closely on that issue so that he doesn't have to depend on another private consultant to do the job. I will make sure that there is attention paid to this issue, and we will work closely with the MLA on this issue. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region. Mr. Rabesca.

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James Rabesca North Slave

I would like to ask the Minister regarding the water system upgrading in Rae-Edzo $30,000 forecast. I wonder what this upgrading is all about.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Rabesca, are you referring to page 10-18?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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James Rabesca North Slave

Page 10-17.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree to go back to 10-17?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can he clarify the question, please?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Rabesca.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is the item of the water upgrading system for Rae-Edzo for $30,000. Every year, the water level seems to be coming down at the West Channel. The water seems to be freezing to the ground. What kind of upgrading system are you planning to do with this $30,000?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are just trying to find the detail on that. Please bear with us.

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The Chair John Ningark

We are on page 10-17.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Penny Ballantyne to answer that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mrs. Ballantyne.

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Ballantyne

Mr. Chairman, the $12,000 identified for Rae-Edzo in this fiscal year is to complete work that has been done on the lagoon in Rae over the last few years. Prior years' spending on this amounts to almost $1 million. There is just a small amount of work to be done this year, with respect to warranty and turnover to the hamlet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Rabesca.

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James Rabesca North Slave

The one I am referring to is the water system upgrading in Rae-Edzo. That doesn't seem to apply to the sewer system. It is $30,000 this year. There is another one for the water treatment plant for $100,000 in Rae. That specifically identifies Rae.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to say that the department is available at any time with all the details in their capital plans, but I will refer this question to Mr. Christensen. He has the detail.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular project is to replace some of the water lines in Rae that are part of their water mains and are in bad condition and need replacement. It is a replacement of about 100 metres of line in the Rae system.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith region, Mr. Rabesca.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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James Rabesca North Slave

The future years anticipated is $550,000. Is that still going to go ahead and be completed?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The future years are just indicating that there will be work going on in that area for water system upgrading for future years. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Rabesca.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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James Rabesca North Slave

A few days ago, I met with the Minister with regard to the possibility of going to Rae-Edzo on Saturday. Is the Minister still going there to discuss these issues with the mayor of Rae-Edzo?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some things that have come up in my constituency and I have to attend to them this weekend. As you know, as the Minister, I haven't seen my constituency for quite some time. My staff will be going into Rae to meet with the council on that issue. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Page 10-18, Inuvik region.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 605

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

With regard to the water treatment plant upgrade in Aklavik, you don't have any funds for future years. I thought there was supposed to be a major upgrade within the next few years. When is that supposed to be scheduled and why is it so far off?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be referring that question to Mr. Christensen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a project not unlike the project regarding the water treatment storage in Fort McPherson, in that we have identified $30,000 in 1996-97 to do a study of the condition of the existing water treatment plant. Again, depending on the outcome of that particular study, we will have to reflect the

results of that in the next capital planning review process. The improvements that are indicated would appear at that time.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region, Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the study says they need a treatment plant, who makes the final decision? Is it Cabinet or the Minister?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital plan goes to my office and then I go to Cabinet on that. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region, Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

So the ultimate decision on who is going to get capital projects is made by Cabinet.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be referring that question to Mrs. Ballantyne.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mrs. Ballantyne.

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Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department recommends a capital plan to the Minister who then takes it to the Financial Management Board. The ultimate decision is really made here in the Legislative Assembly when you approve our budget. That is what we are doing right now. We are bringing our budget forward to you, as has been approved by the FMB, for presentation to the Legislative Assembly today. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region, total region, $795,000. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Saying that we have the final say about what happens in this House ... I might be new, but what I see here is a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper that so happens to be there from FMB. As an ordinary Member, I have no input with regard to what FMB puts in front of us. I see that there is discretion as to how things are allocated. As the Member for Nunakput said, does it come down to a question of priority or who gets the first drink at the trough? Is it done on the question of essential services or on the question of people having input into the decision-making process before it comes to this House?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital planning process is a process that the community leaders are involved in. The community councils should know their five-year capital plan. It is the responsibility of the MLA to take part in those decisions and be aware of the capital plan of their communities. They are the ones who set the priorities for the planning process. This has gone through the Infrastructure committee. I would like the MLAs to feel welcome to look through their capital plan of all their communities. There are options, if you want to priorize your capital plan by going into a block funding agreement, where you have more flexibility in your capital planning process with the community.

The consultation and priorizing has been done at the community level. This just didn't come out of the blue. The communities know what is in their capital plan. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

That is exactly what I wanted to hear because that is exactly what isn't happening. A lot of the major projects that have been in communities -- such as recreation facilities, curling rinks, large equipment, et cetera - has been moved out of the budget because of the so-called restraint. But you go through this process and see a recreation complex being built in certain ridings and large capital projects being allocated. When you talk to the municipal council, they ask wasn't that in your five-year capital plan. They say it was the regional office who told them that you have to eliminate that from your capital plan. There are areas out there who are still getting large projects in their ridings. It seems like your department has the ultimate say. We can give you a wish list, but we get what you give us. We don't have much of a say in what we see in the five-year capital plan.

For instance, Fort McPherson is getting $225,000 for a community of over 1,000.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of the priorities can't be met. The community decides what the priorities are and, of course, some priorities can't be met. If a community wants to go into a block funding agreement, they have more flexibility in their funding to move capital projects around. The communities have been consulted and the process is known by the communities and this isn't done by a department outside. Some priorities have to be dropped. These have been consulted with the communities through block funding agreements and they will have more flexibility in moving their capital projects around. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have been involved with the hamlet of Fort McPherson where your department has come into the communities and tried to move capital projects up, but they say these cuts were made by Yellowknife and that is the direction they have been given. The communities may want to move this project up because of the water quality question or not having a recreation item.

With regard to this new arrangement of block funding in communities, you are saying they are going to get a better deal. You might get a three-year block funding arrangement, but payments are done on a month-by-month basis. Many of these projects are scheduled for the year 1999, 2000 and 2001. We are talking about the next decade. This is my first kick at the can at this process and it looks like there is a problem with it. I would like to ask the Minister if she is willing to open a dialogue with all the communities in the Mackenzie Delta, to have a chance to put what they would like to see in the five-year capital plan versus what is in front of us.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There has been a lot of changes in this new government. We aren't working with the same funding from the federal government. The capital plans that used to be done were done with a lot of money and we have had to make a lot of changes. I know that all the MLAs are aware of that. I am offering an option, as a MACA Minister, that through block funding, the communities can priorize their capital projects and meet the needs of their communities. When we are talking about a three-year block funding agreement and monthly funds going into the community, that isn't an equal amount of funding to the community each month. It would be different amounts as negotiated with the community. There is a clause where if the government doesn't have enough money in the second year, there would have to be a percentage cut to the block funding agreement. That is done one year at a time by the department.

We have made a lot of changes and my personal preference for an option would be that my communities get into block funding agreement, so they can priorize themselves. We aren't working with the same dollars as the government had before. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region ... Mr. Krutko, are you okay now?

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

No, I am never okay.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

The point I'm trying to make is that we are presently in a financial problem; we realize we have a deficit. The deficit didn't happen overnight yet these capital projects that we're talking about have been in the works for five or 10 years. These things have been done by our predecessors but whatever happened in the past happened in the past. Looking at the breakdown of the budget, because of the capital plans that have been in place in the past, we have some have and have-not regions. The point I'm trying to make is that you're suggesting that block funding is probably the way to go, but because of what's in the budget now, from what I see, especially for myself, I won't be seeing any projects in my riding until the year 1999-2000.

With regard to infrastructure problems we're having in Fort McPherson, Aklavik and other communities, those projects have basically been moved out. God knows by who, but the way it's scheduled in the five-year capital plan, we are not going to see them for a while. Yet, there are some projects here that you're talking about being essential or there for the benefit of a few individuals or a particular area. If you're talking about fairness, I don't see any fairness with regard to how this budget has been laid out, especially with regard to projects and exactly who managed to make sure they stacked the deck five or six years ago and are now getting the big projects; if you missed out on the boat, sorry. That's what it's looking like to me.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question, Mr. Krutko?

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Could I have the Minister and the department give us a breakdown on all the capital projects, by riding, in the whole NWT for the last 10 years so we can see exactly where all these projects have been allocated and the cost breakdown for those? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be consulting with my colleagues on that at the Cabinet level. We all realized, when we got into the government as new MLAs, that there would be tough decisions made and that we would be a part of that. I will be referring that information to my Cabinet colleagues and will answer the appropriate MLA. My department is dealing with these capital projects just within the MACA department. There are also capital projects in other departments that are going into the communities. These are not the only capital projects that are going into the community. There is the Department of Education, Health and Social Services, other departments that have capital projects that I am not aware of. There might be other capital projects going to the communities but we're just dealing with the Department of MACA. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Since you're not in favour of doing it for the whole Northwest Territories at this time, in the meantime, could I have a breakdown of what the capital projects have been for the Mackenzie Delta for the last 10 years?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will do that. We will have to do some research on what has been happening in the Member's riding over the past 10 years, just for MACA. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

And Rankin also.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works. I have been very lenient with Members, as the chair of the Committee of the Whole. We have rules that we haven't really been following. Each and every Member can speak for 10 minutes at any one time. Thereafter, we will allow the Members to speak who have not spoken. I would like to remind that we have been very lenient. I think we should begin to follow the rules here a little more closely.

Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $795,000. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like a little clarification on a statement made about block-funded agreements. The Minister said that block funding agreements could be entered into that would address capital works for MACA. However, when I look in the back of the book, on page 10-35 -- I don't wish to advance that far at this time, Mr. Chairman, it's just an example -- it refers there to block funding transfer payments. It says $5.627 million but it's specifically for some communities. I wonder where MACA is going to find the money if the communities want to enter block funding at this time.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen, for understanding. It would be unusual to move ahead so quickly. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to refer the question to Mrs. Ballantyne.

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Ballantyne

If I could just request some clarification from the Member: Is the Member asking how we would put together a block funding agreement for a community that wished to enter into a new one? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Steen, for clarification.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

No, Mr. Chairman. What I would like to know is, since there's only X number of dollars identified for block funding, could communities, for instance, at this point in time, enter block funding agreements with MACA?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I understand from the Minister that block funding would include capital and that communities have the option of forwarding these capital projects one or two years. However, I wonder where they're going to get the money for this. Is it going to be included in the original block funding agreement?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to ask Mrs. Ballantyne to answer that question. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mrs. Ballantyne.

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Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department cannot advance money that it has not yet been voted so we can't advance money a year in advance of the year we would receive it from this House. In the case of Fort McPherson, the department has volunteered to find the $40,000 from within our budget this year, just to simply meet the urgent need of that community right now. Communities who enter into block funding agreements that include capital are basically given a conditional guarantee of funding in advance. For example, the block funding that was just signed with Fort Smith guarantees that community roughly $1.5 million for the next three years, on the condition that MACA receives sufficient funding to be able to meet that commitment. That enables the community to plan ahead.

Then, within that three-year period, if they wish to they can move their capital projects around from one year to the next without coming back to the department for approval. That is the benefit of the block funding agreement when it includes capital. I hope I have answered the Member's question. If not, we will certainly provide clarification. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before I recognize Mr. Steen, the honourable Member has indicated there is no quorum, so I will ring the bells.

--- Ringing of bells

Thank you. Mr. Steen, Inuvik region.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday, we heard from the witnesses that block funding is unconditional. I believe the Minister said that as well, but now I hear it's conditional. It's conditional on the government having approved the capital for the next year. So, in fact, it is conditional.

The other question I would have is that the Minister suggested that communities have the opportunity to play around with their capital projects -- advance them one or two years; whatever -- based on formula funding. But formula funding for capital is for one year at a time. So how do communities get the opportunity to play around with these capital projects if they're only funded for one year at a time? I think that we are getting conflicting information somehow. It's not coming in clear to me that community empowerment, in fact, does give communities authority over their projects for more than one year. I am getting mixed messages here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Perhaps the honourable Minister was referring to the Cities, Towns and Villages Act and the Hamlets Act. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

The block funding agreements are unconditional in terms of the community having the flexibility of moving their capital projects. The condition is according to how many cuts we get from the federal government. The percentage would then be cut from that agreement. That's a clause in the agreement. But it is unconditional in the way that the community can now plan, within that three-year agreement, how they want to deal with their capital projects without having to go back to the government for approval. But they would have to work within that budget. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I am going to go with the understanding that it is conditional, because she just said it

is conditional. It is conditional on this Legislative Assembly approving the capital for next year. So it is conditional.

Mr. Chairman, my other comment or question is related to this particular Assembly dealing with previous year's business plans, and that's frustrating. But I think some of us understand that X number of commitments were made in the last couple of years which basically tie our hands to those business plans. The statement by this government that we are going to operate brand-new, we'll have a whole new business plan here, we'll have a whole now way of doing business is, I think, not quite a true statement because many of the projects in this budget's capital plan were, in fact, approved one and two years ago, and we are just following along, continuing what somebody else decided to do. That's frustrating, and I can understand the frustration of my colleague from the Mackenzie Delta.

Mr. Chairman, I have also been involved on both sides of the table with community capital plans. I recall sitting on the other side of the table from Mr. Christensen in past years when I was a mayor or a secretary-manager, and we, as a community, were defending our capital plans. Now I find him defending his capital plan, so it gets kind of frustrating, so to speak. You know, I can understand the whole thing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region. I have Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Rabesca. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At one point earlier, about an hour or so ago, we had approved up to page 10-22, and, as you indicated, you've been very lenient. We are now back, I think, to page 10-18. 1 don't want to preclude discussion and free-ranging expression of concerns and such, but, personally, I would like to, like you've been trying to do, Mr. Chairman, get agreement on specific regions. If there are no more questions, then let's move on to the region where people have concerns. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Inuvik. Mr. Rabesca.

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James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since we are discussing block funding, I would like to ask the Minister regarding block funding for water and sewage operations. I understand the department had to adjust the amounts communities used to get for subsidies for water and sewer to make the amounts available for the block funding system now in place. Does this mean that communities will now have a reduced amount of funding through block funding, compared to what they had under the previous system?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On community development, Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Water and sewage was growing so fast that the communities had to be block funded for this so that it would be more efficient. There was a cut made to the water and sewage subsidy program without any allowance for forced growth for a four-year period; therefore, we have had to

work with $9.8 million instead of $12.1 million. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Inuvik region, total region, $356,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Now, my friend over in this corner. Contributions, Baffin, total region. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are we on Baffin, 10-19, community development? I just had a question that I would like to ask if it is the appropriate time. I think it was my mistake.

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The Chair John Ningark

I think earlier, when Mr. Barnabas wanted to speak, I thought that Baffin was still ahead, so I would like to apologize to Mr. Barnabas so I wish he was here.

Baffin, 10-19. Should be go back to 10-19?

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) I have a question. In Igloolik, we have asked for a recreation centre. I think it was in a five-year plan. Do I understand that we will not be getting that recreation centre in the next three years?

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

(Translation) To my understanding, it would be within 10 years. It is not in here. The recreation centre that Mr. Evaloarjuk is talking about is not included in here. The recreation complex in Igloolik, it's $341,000 to Igloolik, up front.

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The Chair John Ningark

Total contributions, page 10-23. We've done Inuvik region, right?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. That was $356,000. Contributions, Baffin, total region, $3.247 million. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is my riding. There is Igloolik, ...(inaudible) ... but I do not see Pond Inlet or Hall Beach. Are they going to be receiving any contributions?

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

(Translation) Are you asking under the capital estimate $518,000, contributions, Baffin?

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

I do not see any of my riding in there. Are they not going to receiving any contributions? What's happening?

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

This area is just to do with buildings and works. Hall Beach will be getting a grader. Now I'm getting into details. Sorry. I'll refer the question to Mrs. Ballantyne.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Ballantyne.

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Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under mobile equipment, various, in Baffin, the community of Hall Beach is identified to receive a grader in this fiscal year. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Baffin. Mr. Barnabas. Sorry. I apologize to you.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under 10-18, 1 want to ask if a town had a population of 618 and had to travel five miles to get to the water supply system ... I'm not really in favour of this and just wanted to make a comment on that. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

I thought we had not passed the Baffin region but, in fact, we have passed the Baffin region. I had told the honourable Member that Baffin region was still ahead so we have not got to that page. I made a mistake. Thank you. I apologize.

Page 10-23, contributions, Keewatin, total region, $716,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

On page 10-23, detail of capital, community development, contributions, Kitikmeot, total region, $152,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Nothing for my community.

--- Laughter

I'm supposed to be neutral here. Total contribution, $9.932 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity, $20.851 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Sport And Recreation

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Sport and recreation, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $2.689 million. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under sport and recreation, Sport North Federation is the major source of funds for the Arctic Winter Games and other sports programs run by the Northwest Territories. However, in the Nunavut region, we still have the same situation that I've mentioned before and I would just like an update from the Minister concerning the availability of the lotto terminals so that we can pay our way supporting Sport North. We don't have the Lotto 649 terminals in our region and all of the money generated to pay for these programs out of the 649 sales comes from the West. I wonder if there's any update on that from the Minister. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that lottery licensing is with a different department. I will refer this to Mr. Vern Christensen.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry, I don't have an update on that issue for the Member but we can certainly provide one. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate, when we have some kind of information on that, if I could get that information from the department because I'm very interested in that area. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was an indication from the witness table that the information will be provided.

Sport and recreation, total operations and maintenance, $2.689 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Detail of capital, sport and recreation on page 10-26, buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $1.94 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $1.1 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Baffin, total region, $1.53 million. Mr. Enuaraq.

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a comment. In Pangnirtung, there is already an arena and they are also building an arena in Broughton Island. The Pangnirtung arena is being utilized by the people of the community. They use it for such a short period of time. This has become a concern. They are also building an arena in Broughton Island. I don't have any updates as to how the building is coming along. In Clyde River, they don't have an arena and they have requested an arena in writing to me, as well as to the Minister. I am wondering when Clyde River will be allocated some funding for a sports complex, mainly an arena. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The design work for the arena in Clyde River will start in 1997-98 with $100,000. The construction will start in 1998-99. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Baffin, total region, $1.53 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Keewatin, page 10-27, total region, $89,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Kitikmeot, total region, $800,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, headquarters, total buildings and works, $5.459 million. Agreed?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Contributions, headquarters, total region, $89,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Contributions, Fort Smith, total region, $70,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 611

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Contributions, Inuvik, total region, $280,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Page 10-28, sport and recreation, Baffin, total region, $60,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Contributions, Keewatin, total region, $60,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 611

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Contributions, Kitikmeot, total region, $188,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total contributions, $747,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Total activity, $6.206 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Community Planning And Lands

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Section 10-29, community planning and lands, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $2.656 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Detail of capital community planning and lands, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $1.153 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

On the mapping and aerial photography, can you tell us what that is about?

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do mapping and aerial photography. It provides valuable information to make sound decisions upon the validity of projects and provides a sound basis for orderly planning of communities. Mapping also provides a graphical means of portraying land dispositions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, headquarters, $1.153 million.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $1.304 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $310,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Baffin, page 10-31, total region, $935,000. Mr. Barnabas. It is my pleasure to recognize you.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

There is $45,000 in various Baffin region, page 10-30. (Translation) I wonder how many communities will be sharing this $45,000.

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of it will be going to Resolute Bay, some of it to Hall Beach and Clyde River.

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The Chair John Ningark

Baffin, total region, $935,000.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Page 612

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Keewatin, total region, $2.172 million. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted an explanation of why there is $12 million going into Rankin Inlet.

--- interjection

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

In total?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will refer the question to Mr. Christensen,

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In Rankin Inlet, there is a very large subdivision area that has been planned as part of the community's general development plan. It is called "Nuvuk Residential Subdivision." That particular subdivision is served with piped water and sewer services, which adds to the capital cost of the land development project relative to other land development projects. The reason the cost is so high is that it is a large project and it is phased over a number of years. The $12 million figure relates to the added accumulative total over a number of years beyond the five-year planning horizon of the present capital plan. It goes into future years. Of course, the time over which that money would be expended would be dependent on the actual development that is realized in Rankin Inlet and the demand for more land in that period. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Was the prior year cost of $4.5 million spent in total last year?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister or Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, that isn't the amount of money that was spent last year. It is the amount of money that has been spent to this point in that particular subdivision.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin region, Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What kind of a time frame are we looking at? How many years was that?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Mr. Chairman, the previous construction has been over the prior two years; actually, three years, if you include the design period. Looking forward, we are looking at a six-year period for future construction.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus, Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Henry.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is this development the normal size development?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Chair. I mean Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Chair. Sorry. The subdivision in Rankin is a big division

that was a new part of town. It is needed in Rankin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. My mistake was unintentional. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can I assume that this development was also included in the priority plans of the community?

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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

This was a priority of the community. There is a whole subdivision there where people have built their homes, as well as apartment buildings. It is serviced by water truck delivery and sewage pump-out by trucks. It was a priority of the community. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Keewatin, Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does priority planning include priorizing schools?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Madam Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is the Department of Education.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want clarification, when people do their priority planning, are they included in the priority plan?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The community-governing body has people who represent various committees in the community and that is put into consideration. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Keewatin, total region. Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Henry, Mr. Ootes and Mr. Roland. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question to the Minister relates to the allocation of funding for my own community of Arviat. Arviat is one of the fastest-growing communities in the Eastern Arctic. The numbers at this point in time were approximately 300 people less than Rankin. My intent is not to question what is happening with Rankin but, when I look at the numbers, they don't seem to add up. We have $192,000 allocated for 1996-97, nothing for future and we have $2 million for our neighbouring community of Rankin. How do you hope to deal with the growth in this community and in most of the other communities in the Keewatin? There is nothing there compared to our sister community.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand what the concern is from the Member. It depends on the community-governing body and how much input they have or what they have planned for their community and through their MLAs. This is done in consultation with the community. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understand the Minister correctly, she is saying the department doesn't have a lot of input into the development of these plans and the overall strategy as to how and in which way the communities are going to grow and how you are going to deal with this growth. I find it strange that there wouldn't be a lot of involvement, participation and advice by your department to assist these communities. It just falls into what we talked about for the last six months with community empowerment. I can only assume that MACA would be directly involved in forecasting these figures. What I see here is very unfortunate; the allocation of dollars in the Keewatin. The Keewatin only being part of Nunavut, my question, Mr. Chairman, is how does the Minister see her department getting involved in this area. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I have to remind myself not to miss anyone. I have Mr. Henry, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland and Mr. Enuaraq. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

As the Department of MACA, we do provide technical advice to the communities and the communities priorize their needs. This is what we base our commitment on, the needs of the community and the priorizing at the community level.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the Minister stating that what is allocated here in the budget is satisfactory to meet the needs of Arviat and Baker Lake for this year and for the next number of years? Is this what is being stated?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If we started comparing communities, we would have to give each community standard roads, etcetera. The community does priorize the needs of the community. There might be things that Baker Lake and Arviat have that Rankin doesn't have. This is the capital plans of MACA we are dealing with. There are other departments that deal with those other communities. I will have Vern Christensen to respond to this concern.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to add that the figures that are presented in the main estimates are projects that have funding in the first year of the capital forecasting plan and so it isn't entirely apparent from the main estimates how the department proposes to implement capital projects over the next foreseeable period.

In our capital forecasting plan, we do have a number of projects which aren't reflected here but there may be other land development projects, for instance, and other projects for Arviat that might be able to- show that there is more equatability in how the capital plans have been developed for both communities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Even if we focus on just the residential subdivision work, in the disparity in the numbers, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that, as Mr. Picco says, there is no fairity in the process. Maybe that's politics but, on the same note, I think that it certainly deserves more consideration and, as Mr. Krutko indicated, we are only speaking about, in this case, the residential subdivision work projects, but there seems to be this type of disparity through the whole process. I would have to agree with him on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe there was no question, Mr. O'Brien. We have Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a comment which has become a little clearer to me, and it's not a MACA sort of problem; it's an overall problem. I am just noticing that, and I have received this as prior year costs -- I am just making a suggestion for clarity that maybe that should be prior years' costs, because I had believed, too, that that was what was spent just in the previous year. So, it's in the total project, as you pointed out. So, as a housekeeping item, it may be an idea to put an "s" on to that heading for clarity.

Following that, how many building lots will be created in Rankin Inlet when we consider the prior years' development and this present fiscal year development?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The subdivision plan was amended in 1993-94 to increase the density of lots from 201 to 210. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister. Just to remind myself, we have Mr. Henry, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland, Mr. Enuaraq and Mr. Steen. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Chairman, for some clarification, and maybe the Minister could break it down: How many lots were produced in the prior year for $4.523 million, and how many lots are being created for $1.535 million?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

The revised plan for a new residential subdivision, portions of which received planning approval on February 8, 1993, includes the design of 210 residential lots and commercial, institutional and multi-family blocks of land. Construction of the subdivision started in 1990. By 1992-93, 80 single-family lots and two multifamily blocks of land were developed. By the end of 1994,

66 of these lots will be leased for private homes, public housing and commercial construction. At current consumption rates, approximately 15 to 17 lots per year, this subdivision should meet the community needs for developed lands until 2002. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin, total region. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. O'Brien mentioned earlier the community of Arviat, comparing size. What is the population of Arviat as opposed to Rankin Inlet now?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From the 1991 census, Arviat had 1,323 people and Rankin Inlet had 1,706. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin region. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With the projections for 2001, would that make Arviat at 1,787 and Rankin at 2,340?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you have the Member clarify that? I am not in charge of the census. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

I have Mr. Roland, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Steen, Mr. O'Brien, so we'd like to try and keep the questions to a minimum, if it's possible. Madam Minister. Mr. Henry. Mr. Henry, sorry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am referring to documents produced by the NWT Bureau of Statistics, and they are projecting, for the year 2001, 1,787 in Arviat and 2,300 in Rankin Inlet.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you. So what is the point? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

I just want to know if you are dealing with these as projections.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We would like to go through the Chair. Mr. Henry, would you repeat what you said?

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

My reason for asking this is are these the figures they are using for projecting growth in communities; the documents produced by the NWT Bureau of Statistics?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Yes, that's true, and I would just like to say that if we are comparing Arviat and Rankin, Rankin has a utilidor and that is why the cost is so much

higher, if the question is going to be leading to that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Steen and Mr. O'Brien. We would like to move on. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, I wasn't as interested in that. I wanted to verify the accuracy of these numbers to justify building that number. I think another Member has suggested that they were the same size, and I am suggesting that one is projected to be larger. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. According to health studies, Rankin has 2,400 people now. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I don't know; perhaps I am shrinking. I think we should go through the Chair here. Thank you. Are you okay on that, Mr. Henry? Okay. We have Mr. Ootes. Buildings and works, Keewatin. Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if I could get an answer as to whether Rankin is required to make a contribution towards this development.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be referring that question to Mr. Christensen.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To this particular project, the community does not make a direct contribution; at least, the hamlet doesn't make a direct contribution to the funding for this particular project. This is a land development project. Any fees collected as a result of this development are through the lease fees charged to the people that acquire the land for building. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I guess I am concerned from the perspective of whether this is a tax-based community or a non-tax-based community. I take it it is a non-taxed-based community. Why isn't it a tax-based community? What is the reason, with a population of 2,400 people?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be asking Mr. Christensen to answer that question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Mr. Chairman, this area is an area that the department will be spending more time reviewing in the coming year. We do want to take a look at the whole area of municipal financing. Again, it is related to a number of the things that the department would be doing related to the community empowerment priority.

In terms of alternative sources of revenue to municipalities, one of the areas that does become apparent is the area of municipal taxation. That is an area the department does need to do some more work on. There have only been seven tax-based municipalities in all of the Northwest Territories for some time. There are a number of communities that are growing considerably and one of the areas that we do plan to look at is the whole area of the ability to contribute towards the cost of projects that are presently totally funded by the government. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I just want a clarification of what we are looking at when the department says they are looking at other communities to go to a tax base. In the case of Rankin, what kind of time frame are we looking at here?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is an area that should be discussed with all MLAs and with the communities involved. We don't have a definite plan on this. This would have to be discussed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I noticed under future years' anticipated, the only figure I see is $6.714 million in all of the community planning and lands. Is it the only project that is being looked at, Mr. Chairman?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will refer that to Mr. Christensen.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Christensen.

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Christensen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of all the projects indicated here in community planning and lands, that is the only project that has funding that goes that far into the future. As I mentioned before, the only projects that show up here are projects that have funding in the 1996-97 fiscal year in our community planning and lands program, over the next five-year period. We do have a number of other projects, but they don't extend this far into the future as a single project.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I guess that concerns me. Rankin Inlet seems to be the only community for which there are anticipated expenditures for the future. Certainly, there must be other communities that ... How is this done? How do people get allocated funds for future needs?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through the planning process. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

I will rise and report progress. Before I rise and report progress, I would like to remind Members in Committee of the Whole to be more diligent when the item is called. We have been going back and forth from one item to another. So for future reference, I would like to remind everyone. It gets confusing for the chair, at times. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Minister and witnesses.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I will call the House back to order. Item 20, report of Committee of the Whole. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 11 and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Seconded by Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, item 22, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 616

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there are meetings tomorrow morning at 9:30 of the Ordinary Members' Caucus.

Orders of the day for Friday, May 24, 1996:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 14, Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act

- Bill 17, Business Corporations Act

18. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, Statute Revision Act

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act

- Bill 10, Budget Measures Implementation Act, 1996-97

- Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97

- Bill 12, Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2

- Committee Report 1-13(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 2-13(3), Standing Committee on Infrastructure Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 3-13(3), Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development Report of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 4-13(3), Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Friday, May 23, 1996, at 10:00 a.m.

--- ADJOURNMENT