Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Income Tax Act to establish a Northwest Territories child benefit for which residents will be eligible in addition to the federal child tax benefit. The amount of the NWT Child Benefit will be determined in accordance with the scheme set out in this bill. Under this scheme, every resident family with a net income of $20,921 or less will receive an additional annual benefit of at least $330 per child and every resident family whose net income consists of a working income of $3,750 or more will also receive a working income supplement to be phased in, so that the maximum benefit will be received when working income reaches $10,000. The Northwest Territories child benefit will begin to be phased out when a resident family's net income is more than $20,921. For example, the benefit for a one child family will be reduced at a rate of 3 percent of net income in excess of $20,921 and will reach zero when the family's net income is $41,087. The NWT child benefit will be administered by Revenue Canada and delivered monthly, together with the Federal Child Tax Benefit to the child's primary caregiver. The bill also amends the Income Tax Act to allow the electronic filing of income tax returns. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Bill 16, has had second reading

and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 7, and the State of Education in the Northwest Territories document, with Mr. Steen in the chair.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the Minister for his opening comments. I think it is opportune that we do have a chance to discuss the State of Education in the Northwest Territories today, and that is why I seconded the motion that was introduced by Mrs. Groenewegen. We also had an earlier motion in this Assembly where we asked for the rebasing of any surplus funds within the departments to Education. That was two months ago. I think the process for this debate was that the Finance Minister continue to say if it was the priority of this Legislative Assembly that, indeed, he would like to see it and hear it from the Members. I think the debate today in the committee of the whole will demonstrate that.

I want to touch on a couple of areas. Looking at so many problems that we seem to be having right now in education, and not all of them are a result of the three percent cuts to the base programming funds given to Education over the last two years. I think we have to look at and analyze where our money is being spent and are we getting the best results for the money we spend. A good example of this is the grade ten math curriculum. In the Baffin region alone, the implementation of the new math curriculum, which is a grade 10 math curriculum, there are 361 grade 10 students in the Baffin and approximately 24 grade 10 math teachers. The total actual costs of the materials for those students is $80,526. Education, Culture and Employment contributed $19,000 toward that cost. These are actual figures from the divisional board of education, so there was a shortfall of over $61,000 that the divisional board had to make up just for that one grade 10 math curriculum. In questioning in the House, Minister Dent confirmed, I believe it was in the March sitting, that there are problems with the math curriculum. Maybe later we will be able to get into that.

Another concern I have is with classroom size. Our Department of Education seems to think that classroom size really is not an issue or a factor contributing to student performance. It is interesting to note that on June 4, 1997, the Alberta Minister of Education looked in sizing up the situation, said that among red herrings, the issue of classroom size is the king of the tunas. Of course, referring to the fact that he did not believe that classroom size contributed to problems in the classroom. I should note that a study done in Tennessee, quite a comprehensive study which has been quoted several times in different papers, has actually established a clear linkage between student numbers and achievement. The study concluded that the smaller classes resulted in substantial improvement in student performance, particularly in the areas of reading and arithmetic. By studying the students for an additional four years, the researchers were able to show that the positive effects of smaller class sizes persisted throughout to the seventh year of schooling. Mr. Chairman, I think that type of research shows that, indeed, classroom size, which is one of the biggest complaints we are hearing right now from our educators and parents, is a concern. I think that study demonstrates that it is a concern.

Again, what I am trying to demonstrate, Mr. Chairman, is that I am not an educator in the classroom today. I can only go on what educators send me in writing, when I have meetings with the parents and what information I get through the divisional board of education. Then, when I bring these arguments forward to the Department of Education, in most cases, I can honestly say that the board has been forthcoming and willing to discuss the concerns and realize it is a concern, but then nothing is done.

Now, I do not know if more money put into the system is what is needed right now. I think we have to evaluate, as Mr. Dent has tried to articulate here in the House, and size up where we are spending our money and make sure that, indeed, we are getting the best results for the money that we are spending. The statistics are easy to read out, Mr. Chairman, but the fact of the matter is, there are problems in our schools, and those problems are from extra classroom size, more work, and less money to do more with. I have said before in this House, if you are asking to do more with less, you are going to get less done. Those are the main areas.

I would also like to speak a little bit about the government's perspective if we do not have any money and we cannot do anything. We just throw our hands up. Mr. Ootes illustrated this morning how extra money was found for different programs and projects. We needed it to study, $750,000 for the Med-Emerg Report as an example. We found $50 million, supposedly, in a news release from the government saying we were going to buy diamonds. We found $40 million, although there is no line item in the budget, for pay equity. That is $90 million there that is not budgeted for, but someone came up with it. Someone has to pay for it. All I am saying is that, if the concern is that the department needed more money, I think we must be able to find it. The Minister of Finance this morning spoke about bringing forward a supplementary appropriation. I do not know if the Department of Education has gone to FMBS or to the government and said this is what we need more. I do not know. I have never seen any letters to that effect. That will be a question we can ask later today. Has the department gone to the government and said we need x-number of dollars and quantified why they needed it?

I do not understand, Mr. Chairman, when I get letters from the divisional board of education showing $61,000 shortfall for just a grade 10 math curriculum to the Baffin region. Somewhere between what the department is saying and what the divisional boards are saying, there must be truth. I do not think they are saying it just for the sake of rhetoric. I have a package with me today, Mr. Chairman, from all across the Northwest Territories, from hamlets in the Baffin, from the Keewatin, from the Kitikmeot and from all over the Northwest Territories. Today, we also received a letter from the Metis Nation, from Mr. Gary Bonnet, spelling out the problem with the student/teacher ratios and English as a second language programs. It seems that this problem we are having in education is not unique to one area of the territories. It is all across the spectrum and all across the territories and we have to deal with it. I think just by throwing our hands up and saying we do not have any money or whatever, is not acceptable. Maybe today, in questioning in committee of the whole, the Minister and the Deputy Minister, Mr. Cleveland, will be able to answer some of those concerns, and hopefully pro-actively as the Minister said, the debate here today will be a pro-active in a positive manner, so that, indeed, positive results for our students, who are our first and foremost priority, and the teachers and parents can be put at ease.

Mr. Chairman, some of the Members have said that there is really nothing to debate about education. It is a motherhood and apple pie statement and what are you going to get out of having a debate here today. The debate should hopefully, at a public forum, clear the air and we can move on constructively, as asked for in the motion by Mrs. Groenewegen yesterday. With that, Mr. Chairman, those are my opening comments and I look forward to asking some questions to the Minister and Mr. Cleveland later today. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the outset I would like to indicate that I may have a few problems with the way education is being implemented. However, my main problem that I see today is not the fact that things are being implemented but the fact that we simply do not have enough dollars within the education system for the Minister and his staff to work with. Similar to Mr. Picco earlier, I do not buy the argument that we just finished the budget process and that nothing can be done. Every year, Mr. Chairman, there are supplementary appropriations, supplementary appropriations, as I understand, to deal with problems that arise, unexpected things or perhaps a shift in priorities. We all know that during the budget process you cannot add money to areas. All you can do is cut. In this instance we knew that we did not want to cut from education, so there is nothing that we could have done. We had to wait until after the budget process in order to try to put more money into education.

Another thing I wanted to touch on, Mr. Chairman, is the adult education that we are currently providing in the Northwest Territories. We do have the worst education rates in Canada. Many of our adults cannot read or write and many are semi-literate. These people are of working age and many will be of working age for many years, and they will not be of retirement age for many years. I simply cannot accept that we have to let these people continue living like that when we can invest some dollars to ensure that their problem is alleviated.

Some statistics indicate that, from the GNWT's own reports, 45 percent of the new jobs that will be created in the next decade will require 16 years of education, Mr. Chairman. Sixteen years! What are we doing to our people when a good many of them have dropped out at grade 9 or less, because another fact here, the population of Northwest Territories in 1994, with less than grade 9, 27 percent of our population? Grade 9 to grade 12 without a secondary certificate was a further 19 percent. This, in total, with less than grade 12 is 46 percent, which is almost half of our population. We know that in the next decade half of the jobs that are created will require 16 years of education. The NWT graduation rate is 25 percent, and the national average is 68 percent. This is almost one-third of the national average. The graduation rate of aboriginal people is abominable. The Inuit graduate at a 12 percent rate, the Dene graduate at 16 percent rate, and the Metis graduate at 20 percent rate. Mr. Chairman, just to go a little bit further, we also know that 93 percent of university graduates and 76 percent of grade 12 graduates in the NWT are employed, while those people with grade 8 or less, only 32 percent of them are employed. I do not really want to go into a great big bunch of statistics, Mr. Chairman, but I do have to indicate that we have quite a few communities that have some form of adult education. However, only approximately 35 communities have permanent educators. I would safely say that every community has a problem with adult basic education, so that this certainly has to be improved upon. I would urge the government to look at this and to put into place some type of a plan that looks at all the different areas and to set some goals. This is what we are going to do here. This is what we are doing in this community, this community. Not everybody wants to go and get grade 12 or go to college that is granted. A lot of people will be satisfied just to learn how to write their name and to improve the way that they live simply because they know how to read and write at a basic level. Those types of people, of course, many of them are happy to do other types of work, labour or whatever. Many of them, of course, would want to work on the land, trapping or fishing but for those people who wish to go on to a greater education, they should not be denied. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I would like to thank the Minister of Education and his staff, as well to thank the Social Programs Committee for producing some money to be used for education. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that funding, which is allocated for education, was the most in all the funding that was allocated to departments in the government. I know that there are a lot of people are saying that the money that was allocated for education is insufficient. We all realize, as Members, that the funding is not adequate because we have heard from regional education boards and from principals and teachers, as well have told us that there is not enough money for education in the communities. As well, the student/teacher ratio is a problem area as well. The problem is students are feeling the crunch in classroom space and I will also be supporting my colleagues to get more funding to be used for education purposes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (Translation Ends)