Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you for recognizing me, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I want to thank the Minister for making the corrections that we requested. However, this page and this issue still makes me a little bit nervous. Initially when we talked to the Minister, the Minister said it cost roughly $74,000 a year for a cat-train to go in. We are looking at upping that to $91,000, roughly a $20,000 additional cost. Yesterday we found out that we are not talking about $91,000, or not even $94,000, we are talking about $195,000. That is quite a big difference.

I have the same concerns some of my colleagues have raised. In fact, what we are doing here is we are committing now to an annual budget line. It is something that we will be looking at on an annual basis. I know the Minister indicated prior to this that if it does not work, we will go back to the cat-train system and save the $18,000 to $20,000. Those numbers are not what we are dealing with anymore. We are dealing with $195,000. How many years are we committing ourselves to here for putting a road in?

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, first of all, let me say I apologize if I confused people with these numbers. That was not done intentionally. In terms of where the money is coming from, just to be clear, the fuel resupply money from Public Works and Services is $50,000; the transportation assistance program is $24,000; the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation are putting in $20,000 to move in housing units; and that makes up $94,000. Then, on top of that, it is estimated we need $101,000 more. That is what is asked for in this supplementary, so the total amount is $195,000, but we are only making a commitment for one year.

The other factor we have to take into consideration, and timing is important in here, is we are negotiating with a company that is committed to doing oil and gas exploration work in that area. Looking at how we handle this thing this year, it makes sense for us to ensure that there is a winter road going in there this year to cover our needs, plus to also continue negotiating with the company, either to pay a share upfront or through some other arrangement, to pay a toll, or whatever it would be, but have some arrangement where we would jointly, as Mr. Steen says, we jointly have one road.

It just would not make a lot of sense for us to have a cat-train go in there and then have the oil and gas company come along later and make another road. This seems to suit everybody's needs best. If next year there is no exploration activity in that area, then we have to look at a different scenario again and probably look at something to what we had. However, we have to deal with this year by year.

This year is a bit of a unique one, because we do have the company that is doing work in there, and we anticipate being successful in our negotiations, but we cannot count on that yet. If we are successful, and to whatever amount that is, that is what would lapse here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Throughout this session and last session, there has been a number of questions raised to the Minister of Transportation regarding the methodology that is used to determine what winter roads would be built, what improvements would be done to the highway system.

Throughout it, he has maintained that there is only one factor that he takes into consideration, safety. To compound the issue, he has indicated to the Member for North Slave that the winter road in the North Slave is not being paid for by the government. The Department of Transportation is not in the business of developing roads to resources, but this is not a safety issue. In actual fact, we are developing this road to assist a company to access the resources. Where is the standard? We say one thing in the House and then we have another issue that totally goes against the grain.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if it would help the Members, I could give a breakdown here of the $195,000. The information I have says it is $80,000 for engineering studies, mechanical brushing, and preliminary grade work to permit public traffic to use the road, and $115,000 for construction and maintenance. The Member is questioning whether we are building a road for the sake of industry.

The department and the government have an obligation to build roads into communities, as well as to serve the general public. Once we build this road and it is declared a winter road and it becomes part of the highway system, you really cannot limit anybody on that road other than for the purpose of weight or environmental reasons. It is a public road. What we are trying to do here is to negotiate with these users so they contribute to the wear and tear on the road. I am sure the Members know that an ordinary winter road used by light traffic would require way less maintenance than it would if there are heavy trucks in there. We would then have to increase the maintenance.

These are things that we are trying to address here. The raw question of whether we are building roads for the purpose of resources, the answer is yes. We do build roads for the purpose of resource development. That is our mandate, as well as to serve the general public. I have no problem understanding that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take it by the Minister's comments that now we do build roads to access resources. However, he has used the explanation that we are obligated. The Department of Transportation is obligated to build roads to communities. If that is the case, is his planning so short-sighted that he has to come to us mid-season, halfway through the year, to put in for the money? Why did he not go through the normal planning route? Why did he not use the normal process?

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Steen.

Mr. Chairman, the department uses certain criteria to justify expenditures of the road. We have no problem as soon as someone can justify an expenditure into a route, we would then be obligated to build it. That is part of our mandate, but you just do not build a road because people ask. There has to be some way of justifying the expenditures. That is what we are doing here. We are justifying the expenditures.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. McLeod.

Then I would take it, by the Minister's comments, that we will be building roads to resources. We have an open door policy for all companies that are out there that are interested in extracting resources within the Northwest Territories. It seems, to me, that it is not being done. I would have to ask the Minister how many companies are we dealing with in that same nature? Is it only this company and this instance that we are using for the road to Colville Lake, or are there other negotiations going on for routes in other areas, because we have a lot of activity going on?

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Steen.

Mr. Chairman, at this time, I am only aware of my department negotiating access to Colville Lake winter road.

I am not aware of my department negotiating with anyone else for access to winter roads or for the input to winter roads. I do know that the federal government did tie certain conditions to the millions, the $3.7 million we will receive from them, in that there has to be partnership sharing. There is a suggestion there that we have to find $200,000 of input from industry for us to put into that bridge project. That is the only other negotiations that I know of that may take place.

There is talk between my department and the oil and gas industry, for instance in the Beaufort, as to how and who controls winter roads on the river. Things like that we have to talk out with them all the time and whether or not it is going to be cost sharing, we have not decided on that yet. We are always talking with the oil and gas industry, the mining industry, as to how we could cost share if possible.

Thank you, Minister Steen. Mr. Krutko.

I will allow someone who has not asked a question yet to go ahead, and then we can come back.

Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Steen.

Mr. Chairman, I believe the road into Colville is exactly the same route they were using in the past for the cat-train.