Transcript of meeting #3 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 13th Assembly.
The winning word was chairman.
Members Present
Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd.
Members Present
Members Present
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Good morning. Can we start with the proceedings for today. We will start with a prayer.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Oh Lord we thank you for this day. Guide us in our deliberation. Protect those back home, those out on the land, those in the workplace. We thank you for giving us life. We ask this in your name. Amen.
Item 2: Opening Remarks By Chairperson
Item 2: Opening Remarks By Chairperson
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Welcome to the Territorial Leadership Committee. As you are all aware, we are here today to select one of our Members to become the Premier of the Northwest Territories and subsequently to ensure a full complement of Members of the Executive Council.
I would like to briefly outline the process we will use for the election of the Premier. I will begin by calling for nominations from the floor and ascertaining whether or not the Member accepts or declines the nomination.
Candidates for Premier will be permitted 30 minutes to make a speech. When all candidates have spoken, every Member will be allowed to ask two questions to each candidate.
Once the question period is concluded, the committee will commence voting. Members will receive their ballots at the Clerk's table and vote in the booths on either side of the Speaker's chair.
I will vote after all Members have voted.
Members should refer to the procedures documents on your desks for further details on this process. In addition, you will find nomination forms for the Premier.
With that, I will begin the process by calling for nominations from the floor for the position of Premier of the Northwest Territories and good luck. Mr. Miltenberger.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Nomination for Premier
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
The Member for Nahendeh, do you accept the nomination?
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, I wish to nominate Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Member for Sahtu, for the position of Premier.
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The Member for Sahtu, do you accept the nomination? Mr. Kakfwi.
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Further nominations for Premier. Mr. Ng.
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Item 3: Election Of Premier
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Chairman, I move that nominations cease.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
There is a motion for nominations to cease. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. The nominations cease. We have two nominations. We have Mr. Antoine. We have Mr. Kakfwi. We will allow each candidate 30 minutes to make their remarks. We will start in alphabetical order with Mr. Antoine. Mr. Antoine.
Remarks by Premier Candidates
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, elders, my honourable fellow colleagues here in the 13th Legislative Assembly, ladies and gentleman in the gallery and the people of the Northwest Territories. It is a great honour today and a privilege to address you today as I put my name forward for the Premier of the Northwest Territories. I would like to thank the honourable Member from Thebacha, Mr. Mike Miltenberger, for nominating me for this important position of trust. I would like to recognize my family, Mr. Chairman: my wife Celine, my son Denezeh, my daughter Melaw, my two other sons, Sachey and Tumbah, for their understanding and support as I continue on this political path that I have chosen and that I am on now.
Mr. Chairman, this is an unfortunate opportunity today coming after a lengthy, very painful process of the Conflict of Interest Commission and the report. I would like to mention that the honourable Member from Tu Nedhe, Mr. Don Morin, resigned as result of that and I commend him for the courage in taking that decision. Mr. Chairman, I want to speak in my own language.
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I put my name forward for government leader, this is a big responsibility.
Mr. Chairman, my life has been an incredible journey and a learning experience. Earlier on I learned important lessons from my parents, my relatives and elders at our traditional camps along the Deh Cho at a place called Rabbitskin River. Their lessons of respect, trust, tolerance, patience and a willingness to work cooperatively to achieve common goals will undoubtedly help me as Premier if I am elected.
I began my political career serving the people of Liidli Kue as a chief of the Liidli Kue First Nation. I have been privileged to serve as the MLA for the Nahendeh in this Legislative Assembly for two terms of office. As MLA I have been pleased to serve as chairman of the Standing Committee of Finance, as co-chair of the Constitutional Working Group and as Minister of Transportation, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Minister of Public Works and Services. I feel a strong responsibility to continue putting my experience to good use, Mr. Chairman. To help improve the lives of all northerners. What do northerners want and expect most from us? I believe, Mr. Chairman, that they want honesty, accountability and stability at this time. Together we must restore public confidence here in the Legislative Assembly and get back to work. Back to the issues that affect the daily lives and future of our constituents, the people of the Northwest Territories who put us here.
A great deal of work remains to be done leading up to April 1st to ensure a smooth transition to both territories. I remain committed to working with all Members of this Assembly to complete the task in a fair and practical manner. For myself, Mr. Chairman, division is both an exciting and somewhat sad time. While I am excited about working on the many challenges leading up to and after April 1st, it is with a sense of sadness that I say goodbye to my Nunavut colleagues and the wisdom that they have brought here to the Legislative Assembly.
--Applause
As my Nunavut colleagues look to the future in their reality of Nunavut, they will be setting their own priorities and agenda. I hope the first Legislative Assembly of Nunavut has the opportunity to benefit from the commitment and hard work they have brought here to this Assembly. Mr. Chairman, simply because the people in Nunavut and the NWT will live in two territories cannot take away from our shared history and the many similar challenges we face. That is why it is important that the people of both territories continue to work together for the common interest of all northerners. I am committed to this.
To my western colleagues, I say let us take up the unique opportunity to shape the new territory and to reflect who we are. As we turn our attention to the future, we must take a course that meets the interests and needs of all people and creates a better quality of life for all northerners. In taking this course, we must recognize that our first responsibility is to our children. They represent the very foundation of our future. I am committed to ensuring that northern youths are afforded every opportunity to realize their personal potential. I am determined to create the kind of future for all our children that will enable them to find good jobs, raise healthy, productive families and become leaders within their own communities.
I believe all political leaders must be responsible to act as good role models for northern youth. We have a responsibility to listen to the people we represent. Our elders tell us to work together to build a healthier northern society, to focus on our common goals and to respect our differences. As we turn our attention to the agenda of the Western Territory, the groundwork has been laid by the Legislative Assembly to deal with the critical issues that we face. Westerners, for the first time, we have the opportunity to not only have the say, but to a play a central part in shaping a new government system for the new Western Territory. To seize this opportunity, we need to participate in the implementation of aboriginal rights negotiations and the development of the constitution of the western Northwest Territories.
Mr. Chairman, I am confident that we will all benefit by ensuring aboriginal people participate in their rightful place in the political and economic future of the north. Many Members have talked about the enormous economic potential of our resources. We need to develop this potential in a way that provides the greatest economic benefit for northerners and ensures the protection of our fragile northern economy and our fragile northern environment, as well. To realize these benefits, northerners must be in control of decisions concerning the development of their interest. This means, Mr. Chairman, not only controlling the pace of development, but ensuring that we have a greater share of taxes and resource revenues that accrue from development. These revenues are essential, Mr. Chairman, if we are to maintain current services for our people and make needed investments in the future.
Mr. Chairman, I am convinced that we can only do this if we dedicate our efforts to negotiate with Ottawa, in partnership with aboriginal governments and to realize greater self-reliance for all northerners. We are at the pivotal point in the north's history, an exciting and challenging time that presents unprecedented opportunities. My overriding goal is to play an instrumental role in creating two strong and stable governments that contribute to the Canadian federation as we move into the next century. The people of Nunavut will take firm control of their own affairs on April 1st, 1999. I am confident that Nunavut will assume a prominent role in the Canadian federation as well. The new Northwest Territories is equally poised to seize all available opportunities.
Together, Mr. Chairman, the two new territories will demonstrate to the rest of Canada that we can competently manage our own affairs and contribute meaningfully to the Canadian federation. This has been, and remains, my goal as a Member of this Legislative Assembly. It is a goal, I am convinced, we can achieve if we work together, Mr. Chairman, shoulder to shoulder here in the Legislative Assembly, serving the needs of our constituents. Whatever the outcome of this election, we must not lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, we are all here to serve the people of the Northwest Territories. Whether you select me, or my honourable colleague, I am committed to working closely and cooperatively with all the MLAs here in this Legislative Assembly so that we could leave a legacy for which the people of the Northwest Territories can look at and be proud of.
With that, I would like to say thank you. Mahsi cho, Mr. Chairman.
--Applause
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi. You have 30 minutes. You have the floor.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mahsi. (Translation) Thank you. Before I speak to you, I want to say something to my constituents in the Sahtu region. Perhaps, today you hear what I am saying, perhaps you see me. I have been working for you for a long time. I am in this position because you people have voted me in here. In the recent past, a lot of people, the non-natives, the Inuit, the Metis and the Dene people have talked. Many of them requested that I put my name forward. Because this was said to me, I could not refuse them. For the past two weeks, because it is your will, you support me; I have told you that I will put my name forward for the Premiership and no matter what happens here, I will still continue to work for the people. Whether I win or if I lose, it does not matter. I just want to say thank you to all you people in the Sahtu. I am also from the Sahtu region. Whenever people request your services, you have to obey what is being asked of you and that is the reason I am putting my name forward. (Translation ends.)
I must say that this is probably one of the more difficult things that I do in public life. I have done this on a number of occasions and it is a very difficult part of our life as elected leaders. As you know, Jim Antoine has been with me, I have been with him since high school, back in the 60s. We have been together formulating our thinking, working with other Dene leaders since 1974. Today, both of us put our names forward. Some time ago, Jim and I agreed that whatever we do, we would do it together. I think both of us had no idea this is what we actually meant.
--Laughter/Applause
Both of us have been taught by our elders and by the more elderly than the chiefs, through the 70s and 80s. We have been schooled in Dene politics and the numerous assemblies and community meetings that we have been to. Always we sit here, beside each other, advising each other on how to conduct ourselves from day to day. I think you all see that. Anyway, somehow we have decided we are going to go through this together and you will get the benefit of choosing one of us. At the end, you will still have both of us in your service. I think that is extremely comforting for all of you because I think we can demonstrate how really people should work together. We will walk out of this together, no matter what happens.
The last two weeks have been extremely difficult, I think, for every one of us. There is not one of us in this Assembly that wanted the events to unfold the way they did, but they have and the people of the north have looked to us to deal with the very, very difficult decisions that we have had to make. The motion that was passed a few days ago was, in part, formulated by myself in discussions with my colleagues, and some of you on the other side. I think we have demonstrated to the people that if we have stumbled, we know how to catch ourselves, regain our feet, regain our stride and to continue without hesitation to get on with the work that we have to do. That is what that motion indicated to me. That is what that motion was formulated on.
Today, you are faced with another decision. I like to think that it is not so difficult but then that is for you to decide. I believe that our government and this Assembly is looked upon by the people all across the north, from Baffin to the Beaufort, from Fort Smith to Hall Beach. Every one of our communities is looking to us to demonstrate that we know the work that we have to do and we will show them some sign that we are going to renew our commitment to finish the work that needs to be done. I think there is a tremendous amount that needs to be done.
The very first sign, the very first signal that we will give them, will begin this morning with the election of a new Premier. I hope it will also include confirmation of a new mandate for a Premier, a mandate that will help to restore the public confidence that the people want to have in this Assembly, in this Cabinet, in the civil service, the administration and the way that we conduct ourselves. I think we will give them that.
I think we need a Premier who has shown commitment to work in the interests of people of Nunavut and the western Northwest Territories. Although we are together only for a few more months, we, in fact, will be working for the people of Nunavut for a few years to come. We will be neighbours, we will be contracting many services to the people of Nunavut, helping them to establish a brand new government, a new start. We have to demonstrate that we will be there for them, not only now, not only in the next few months, but the next few years. We need a Premier who has the experience and the confidence to make a quick transition, get in to the job this afternoon, tomorrow morning. There is no time for orientation. There is barely enough time to put together a plan on how to make maximum use of the rest of this month, the months of January, February, March.
We need a Premier who can make the best use of the Ministers that we have on Cabinet today, who can call on experienced, competent senior managers to carry out the work that we give clear direction to. We need a Premier who has the respect and the profile to deal with the various aboriginal organizations across the Northwest Territories, who has worked on the various claims, self-government agreements, who is in support of treaty land entitlement negotiations, and who has solid background and knowledge of the various agreements, self-government negotiations, political and constitutional issues. We need a Premier who can give assurance to aboriginal and non-aboriginal residents of the Northwest Territories that each and everyone of them will be treated fairly, represented fairly and that will ensure the conduct of the government and the Cabinet will be balanced; will be fair and equitable.
We need a Premier who has extensive national and international experience in dealing with issues that are of importance to the people here in the Northwest Territories; a
Premier who can deal with provincial governments, federal government, Ministers, national aboriginal leaders; and a Premier who is familiar with the workings of Ottawa, provincial governments and the various institutions that we have to deal with nationally and internationally. We need a Premier who the public can have confidence in to work to restore confidence that our government will operate according to the policies and standards that we have all set for ourselves. Those are the qualifications, I believe, that the public and ourselves are looking for in the candidates.
I want to say a little bit about myself. I have worked with the Dene Nation, as I have said, for many, many years. I spent four years as president of the Dene Nation. Every one of them was a volatile, dynamic organization in the history of the north. I worked with 26 chiefs and subchiefs for four years on a consensus basis. In the four years that I was president there was not one chief, one subchief who ever walked out of the leadership meetings. Those of you who may think that I cannot work with everyone should look to that as a demonstration of my capabilities. I have had many disagreements with chiefs, MLAs and Ministers over the years. I have always said I have never stopped talking to anyone, I have never discarded anyone. The difficulties, the animosities, they pass every time. You just have to wait it out and wait for the good side of everyone to come through. I have been through residential school, the abuse was there. We talked about the media and the difficulty of being in a public light all the time. I understand my colleagues who speak about the tremendous pain and isolation that our families, our children, our wives suffer because of the media. I have accepted that all my life.
Because I choose to live a public life, I know that no matter what the media does to me I get paid very well for what I do. My constituents, many of them, make less than $10,000 a year. I think that just about anyone of them would say, Steve, for the kind of money you make I would be glad to take the media pain and afflictions that they put on you everyday. I understand both of it. Yet, those of you that have never served in high public office will never really know and appreciate the difficulties that our families, children, loved ones have to face.
I have worked with the Inuit leaders since the 70s and am proud of the relationship that I have developed with them. Nellie Cournoyea, John Amagoalik, Kusugak and Tagak Curley, these are people to this day that I still maintain a relationship with. They are not born out of trivial little projects, they are born out of years of hard work, working together, believing in the same things. I worked with the Inuit leaders to finalize the boundary between Nunavut territory and ours. I have gone to the point of supporting the Inuit in the final boundary, even though it meant going against some of my own chiefs. That has cost me to this day. There are still chiefs and Dene leaders who have not forgiven me for that. I believe that I did what was necessary to conclude the negotiations to get on with the creation of something that I thought all of us needed, the creation of Nunavut. The creation of a dream that the Inuit had that some of us Dene leaders also believed in. I am very proud of that and it is why some of the Inuit leaders have accorded me the respect of inviting me as a private citizen, as a Dene leader to attend the ceremonies in Iqaluit on April 1st. I want you to know people of Nunavut, Inuit leaders, that I will always continue to be a friend, that even though you will be leaving in April and setting up your own government, my support for Nunavut, my support for you, will be just as strong as it was in 1981 and all the years since then I will always be here for you.
--Applause
I have had a lot of work experience at the community level. I come from Fort Good Hope, born on a trapline. I know what it is to be hungry, to be homeless, but these are things that I have chosen not to dwell on because there are a lot of exciting things to be done, beautiful things to realize. That is what I set out to work on all my life. Last year, I was away from my home 110 days. Half of the weekends I was away. Hard work, long hours are not things that I am not familiar with. These are the things that I do. This is the price that I pay, my children, my wife. That is part of my life. I do not complain about it and I know that if I am elected Premier I will be seeking to assume additional portfolios to help share the workload because I have seen how hard my fellow Ministers have been working the last three years. I would want to help and do what I can.
In my years as a Minister, particularly as a Minister of Education, I tried to reach every community in the Northwest Territories. I did not make it, but in my mind, to this day, I can see the communities in the Baffin; I can see the communities in the Kitikmeot; I can see the Keewatin. These are clear pictures that I carry with me to this day because I wanted to see. I did not want statistics, briefing notes from Pangnirtung, or Pond Inlet, or Hall Beach, or Cape Dorset. I wanted to see for myself. We blitzed the Inuit communities. I have been there and I can see that, in my mind. I was to Mr. Ningark's country, I spoke to his elders in Dene, made history. It was the first time anybody spoke Dene in that part of the world. Ten minutes in Dene spoken to the Inuit elders in the present of Mr. Ningark. We have interesting little things that we do, you know in the course of our lives and things that we find out about one another.
Mr. Arlooktoo's father, Joe Arlooktoo, served with us in this House, and one day he said, my father is buried in your home town. I want to see where my father is buried. We took Mr. Arlooktoo to my home town and introduced him to the elders who knew his father and showed him the burial site of his father. Mr. Ludy Pudluk, who served in this House for years told my one day that his grandfather was buried in Fort Good Hope. He too wanted to see the burial site of his grandfather. I took him to Fort Good Hope and introduced him to some of my uncles who knew his grandfather and they took an evening to tell him stories, to give him some idea of who this man was. They even sang him a song in French, something that he had not heard since the 1920s, amazing recollection of the elders.
That are my connections. There are little stories that you can tell about all the different things that we have done over the years. I only point them out to illustrate that mine is a very varied history. I worked on gun control legislation a number of years ago. I went to work on that for every one of us, because we all hunt and we all depend on the food from our land, whether we are Inuit, Dene, Metis or just northerners. We took on Mr. Allan Rock for a year and beat on him mercilessly. We did not win the fight, but Mr. Allan Rock has never been the same since.
--Applause
Yesterday, I did a media interview and I said, this is a Dene job. I want you to know what I meant was that it is less then a year to go and it is difficult to find a renewed mandate. It is difficult to imagine why anyone would want a situation where we would have to be selecting a new Premier at this time in our term. I do not want you to doubt my determination to serve you as a Premier, if that is what you choose, the best I can.
I told my constituency that I am going to seek re-election again in the next term. I thought about it for a long time and have decided that I still have the energy and passion to keep working. My family is still with me, supporting me. That is what I will do. I do not think this job should be a caretaker position. I think we need to finish the work as Mr. Todd and some of us have said: on devolution, on getting a new fiscal relationship with Ottawa, with getting a new economic strategy in place and with getting more responsibility and fiscal autonomy. I want to make sure that as a Premier, we will treat every one of you with the respect that you deserve in responding to your questions. I want to do that. I want to make sure that a Cabinet and FMB agenda will include a mandatory item, do any of you have a conflict of interest to declare in the course of our meetings. It would be mandatory for the Chairman to ask.
We need a mandate to continue working on the transition to two new territories and to continue working on a new economic strategy for the Western Territory to ensure that small communities get the necessary support to develop an economic base for tourism and the renewable resource sector. We want to work on restoring confidence in the civil service, work on the morale and give them the assurance that we are going to work on giving them clear direction on the things that they need to do.
There are many, many things that can be and should be done. Mostly it will be done in close consultation with Members of the Cabinet, with yourselves as Members of the Legislature and we will need to do that with leaders from right across the territories. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 3: Election Of Premier
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you for giving me the comfort of not cutting you off. The presentations by the two candidates for Premier are now concluded. If you look at your Premier selection process, following the speeches it is permitted to question the candidates for Premier. Each Member is allowed two questions to each candidate. The floor is open now for questions. We will go by whoever raises their hand. Mr. Picco.
Item 3: Election Of Premier
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December 9th, 1998
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just to get the process down correctly, at this time do I have an opportunity to ask two questions to Mr. Antoine and then two questions to Mr. Kakfwi or just one at a time or how does that work? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
It is up to you, Mr. Picco, or you can ask two questions of each candidate.
Accountability to the Northwest Territories
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my first two questions are for Mr. Antoine. Mr. Antoine, how will you help, as new leader, bring accountability to the Government of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Again, I would like to ask the Members to observe the question so we do not repeat the same questions. Mr. Antoine.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the government has existing guidelines and policies that are there. I think they are there are if we follow them right to the letter, I think that is the way to approach it for the time being. However, if there are grey areas in the policies and the regulations on how to conduct government, especially the Ministers and senior bureaucrats, then that has to be looked at. I think there are a lot of concerns as a result of the Conflict of Interest Commission Report that came out that really looks at how government gets done. I think from there, there are all kinds of different areas where we have to really closely look at and scrutinize these existing policies and regulations. I think we have already said that we are going to do that. There is a deputy ministers' committee set up to do that. Again to recap, by following the regulations and policies that are there and at the same time looking at them again for more clarification. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Picco.
Nunavut and Western Arctic Relationship
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My second question for Mr. Antoine. Mr. Antoine, as leader how would you help keep relations between Nunavut and the western Arctic on an even keel as we move forward into 1999 and beyond with regard to the contracting backup of services and so on? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Antoine.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, like I indicated in my statement, we have to really have a close
working relationship with the leadership in Nunavut and the MLAs here as well as the Office of the Interim Commissioner. I think it is very crucial that good lines of communication are in place, I think there is a process in place to deal with it. I think that could even be looked at closer. As a Minister, I am not really involved on a day to day basis on the Division Secretariat but once you get into Premiership, I think you have access to everything. I think that would be explained clearer to me and if I see that there is need for better communications and closer working relationships, then I would seek to give direction in that regard. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. More questions, Mr. Picco.
Implementation of Recommendations of Review Panel
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you. My first question for Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Kakfwi, how quick will you move to implement any or all recommendations that come out of the review panel struck last week in this House? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The work to implement whatever recommendations that come our of that committee or task force, whatever you want to call it, is going to be done with the Members of the Legislature. As I understand the intent of that motion, it is to make sure that Cabinet works in partnership with Members of the Legislature to look into the government and to find ways to improve government and improve accountability, and then in partnership decide what action needs to be taken and how quickly that should be done. I would be supportive of moving as quickly as possible to action those. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Picco.
Restoring Confidence in Government
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman just a follow-up on that answer of Mr. Kakfwi. I wonder what will you do, Mr. Kakfwi, as leader to help restore confidence in government and elected officials? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the motion is intended to signal to the public, to Members of the Legislature, to the civil service and communities right across the north that we agree that our accountability, perhaps our conduct in the way we do business, could stand some improvement, some transparency. This is what the intent of that motion is to address it. I will say that beginning tomorrow morning I would like to begin discussions to look at ways to set it in place, to set up a process where all of us can feel comfortable that we are doing and carrying out the implementation of that motion in the spirit in which it was adopted and drafted.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.
Role of Central Government
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is addressed to both Mr Antoine and Mr. Kakfwi. It is a two part question. So I will do it all at once. Do you see a role for a strong central public government in the Northwest Territories and what do you see that role being? Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, going through the process of the Constitutional Working Group and in discussions with the aboriginal governments, the position that we have taken here as a government is that there is a need for a strong central government. I put my support behind that position. I think that in looking at it in reality, even though there are a lot of aspirations out there through the whole process of aboriginal self-government, there is a definite need to have a central government in place, that is strong. The role would be to coordinate programs and services and to have standards that would be applicable to all the regions if we go that direction. I think that we have to work in real close cooperation with the aboriginal first nation because the political landscape here in the west is going to change in the next few years. We are in the process of negotiating self-government arrangements with most of the regions now. Others are ready and poised to start. There is a need to have a central government that would be there to deal with really crucial issues that are going to be rising. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. In order to be fair to you, if there are questions directed to both candidates, I will rotate who goes first. Mr. Kakfwi.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I have started out in the Dene Nation, as I say, in 1974 and we developed a Denendeh Proposal. Later, I revised the proposal that called for a central government to serve all Dene and later, all residents, within what we call the territory of Denendeh. It has been my position since that time that we should always support one government, one territory for all of our people at this time in our history. It is critical and essential to having a strong functioning central government within that system. I have always been a strong advocate of that. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.
What Changes Would be Made to Cabinet If Elected
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question is for Mr. Kakfwi, and it will be addressed to both candidates. The question is, if elected Premier, Mr. Kakfwi, what consideration would you give, if any, to making any changes to the existing Cabinet?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Cabinet that I am currently serving is well balanced and all of us in Cabinet are working very hard and effectively in our respective portfolios. Whatever changes we make in portfolio assignments will be done with other Members of Cabinet. It has been the practice and tradition of past Premiers, including Mr. Morin, to consult with his Ministers before making portfolio
assignments, and when making changes. It will be also my intent to consult with Members of the Legislature before making any changes. There will be no dramatic changes being made at this time.
We will be making them in any case, very early in the new year when we will be moving towards setting up a western Cabinet, electing two new Members, which will require changes because the Nunavut Members of Cabinet will no longer be with us and we will need to reassign portfolios at that time. I think the public would want us to maintain some continuity and stability with minimal changes as there is only a year to go at this time. There are going to be quite substantial changes, in any case, because of the termination of Ministers' service at the end of March. Thank you.
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question was directed to both candidates.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you. I do not see any major changes. There should be continuity and the work that existing Ministers are doing, I think they should be in those positions for the time being. We are going to be electing a new Member from among you from the west to fill in a position. This will be a factor. Another factor is whether Mr. Kakfwi or I get in. That will be a factor as well. There will definitely be some changes in that regard. Depending on what happens, there are going to be definitely some changes. The existing Ministers will hold onto their existing portfolios. I do not see any major changes up front.
We will probably have to have discussions on what we are going to have to do once the position of Premier is filled and that of the Cabinet Minister is filled. There is going to be some discussions on that. Later on as we get closer to division and as the Nunavut Members are into the election starting in January and until the end of March, we are a Legislative Assembly until the end of March together. This government will be the government of total Northwest Territories until the last days of March. Prior to that the west, we will have to do a selection process the end of March to identify two more individuals to make up Cabinet for the west. At that time and even prior to that, there is going to be discussion on how the portfolios will have to be lined up. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions. Mr. O'Brien.
Views on Introduction of Party Politics In GNWT
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, once again my question is for the two candidates. Mr. Chairman, given the activities that have occurred in this House over the last number of weeks and months, I would like to know the views of each candidate as to what their views are on the introduction of party politics into the GNWT? Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have come from my particular constituency and having learned politics in the consensual way at the community level as a chief, and then with the Dene Nation, I have always functioned in a consensus level of government. This Legislative Assembly is supposed to reflect reality of life in the north. The majority of life in the north are mainly in the communities and in the regions, where business is done in a consensual way. I would stick with that. I would say that I would prefer to go through a consensus government rather than going through party politics. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, it is my view that a consensus style of government is serving us in the north very well. We have demonstrated that in the last two weeks. If we had party politics, it would have been an incredibly ugly two weeks. We have come through together, and again, it shows that there is a commitment by people right across the territories to respect the differences, the diversity and the different needs that we all have, and yet continue to demonstrate the will to work things out together.
In the north we have incredibly diverse peoples, the Inuvialuit; Gwich'in; people of the Sahtu; Deh Cho; Akaitcho territory; Metis; northerners; the Inuit. The only way that each group, each region can be assured that they will be heard in their government, in their Assemblies and their considerations, no matter the size of their population, is through consensus government. It carves out a place for each culture, each region, each people. For that, I believe, we are well served. Our population is much too small to give any consideration to party politics at this time. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ootes.
Confidence in Public Service
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question will also be to both candidates and it is, how will each candidate seek to restore confidence in our public service, and especially in the area of front line workers such as nurses and teachers? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman. In the last few years we have gone through an incredibly difficult exercise of cutting back on expenditures of government. One of the areas that has been hardest hit is health services, social services and education. I believe that our government and the next legislature will be compelled to work to find additional resources by whatever means to put back in those portfolios. I believe that it is no use to create jobs and industries if we are not taking care of our people in the first instance. We have to make sure people are healthy, confident, the idea of community wellness has to continue to be part of our strategy in improving the lives of our people as we move into becoming more economically independent and diversified. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the question is that, how will I help restore confidence in the civil service, especially in the front line workers. This is an area again, where because of the financial restraints that we have
imposed throughout the whole system, this is a by-product of it and this is something that I do not have a ready answer for. It is something that we all have to work together on.
There have been a lot of questions in this Legislative Assembly towards the different Ministers that are responsible for the portfolios of Health and Social Services in regards to front line workers, as well as the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, income support and for the workers in that area. It is something that we are going to have to all pull together here, in trying to figure out how to deal with it. It is not a simple solution, it is something that I think other Members of the Legislative Assembly all have to work together on trying to deal with this. It is going to be an ongoing problem, not only for within in the next six months, but it is going to be for the next few years. I think we should start looking at how we can address it. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ootes, your second question.
Concern with Contracting Policies
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My second question is also for both candidates and it is, how will you address what some members of the public, some businesses see as problem areas in the contracting policies of our government?
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think taking a closer look at how contracts are being delivered, has already begun. I think that, maybe just to backtrack, when this government had a lot of money back a few years, some of the Members who came from the smaller communities, had addressed it, where there was a desire by the people in the communities to put their foot in the doorway of contracting in business. I think there were some corporations and development corporations that were developed by some of the aboriginal groups in certain areas, communities, and regions that wanted to get into business and wanted to build houses, infrastructure, maintain roads or things of that nature. It started. This Government of the Northwest Territories, the previous governments, have initiated that and when there was a lot of money there, they started to go into negotiated contracts in a lot of those areas. There were sole-sourced contracts that are in place. These negotiated and sole-sourced contracts, I am in full support of if it is to develop expertise in a community in the regions, to try and keep money in the communities. In a lot of cases, we have been successful in achieving that. There are corporation companies that exist today, that if it were not for these policies, they would not be generating revenue and helping the economies in the communities in their regions.
I believe in that process, however, there is a closer scrutiny of those policies now. It seems to be coming from contractors from out in the larger communities. That is the impression at the community level. It is something we have to work through as well. In regard to requests for proposals, I think the public tendering process gets the majority of the contract dollars which come from this government already. There are certain parts of it which goes towards requests for proposals.
There is a difference in those two contracting regarding public tenders where you know what you need, you know what you have to get, so you do it and then companies bid for it. In regard to a request for proposal, you know what has to get done but you do not really know how to do it, so you ask for proposals from companies that are in a position to do it and then you try to get the best package. In that regard, I have no problem with requests for proposals. However, as the money has tightened in the last couple of years, also a side product of the restraints that we imposed upon our own systems to try to balance the budget, it is something that we have to look at and see how we could work through this. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. We talk about, in terms of restoring confidence in the public, about the way we conduct ourselves and we also talk about how we can restore the confidence and morale of our senior managers in the civil service. Again, we go back to the motion. The motion is intended to review any and all aspects of this government, the way it conducts itself, its policies, and its procedures. All Members of the Legislature and the public have a chance to have a look at the way we operate, the policies we have and to tell us ways in which we could improve it.
I have no doubt that the way we contract our policies are going to be part of that equation. It is also no secret that increasingly the regions and even communities are asking to have exclusive control over public expenditures in their own immediate areas. There is a larger political concern of keeping all the regions and communities on side, by assuring them that the government, as a central government, will treat them fairly, take into consideration that if they do not get a fair share for most of these contracts, some of which are very infrequent and small, they would have literally no opportunities to increase training and the jobs that arise potentially from those contracts. I would say, if there are difficulties with contracting policies, then those are the kinds of things that we can review through this independent body that we said we would look at setting up. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Future Plans Regarding FAE/FAS Programs in the Communities
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for both candidates. The first question I would like to ask the candidates is about the problem in our communities with FAE/FAS students and children in our communities and our schools. I would like to ask the candidates what do they see, or what will they do, to improve on this problem and deal with it in the communities?
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
I said earlier that I thought it is going to be a priority for us as a government, as a Cabinet, to look for ways to increase the budgets of education and health and social services, so that they can have the money to do the kind of public education that is required to address the reasons why we have fetal alcohol syndrome, why we have so many social and health problems in our communities. The Department of Education requires money in the special needs area so that they have the capacity to address this particular need, because it is
a very large problem right now, in every one of our communities. It would be a priority on the part of all of us to try and find the necessary dollars so that they can start to work on this problem. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the problem of FAE/FAS in our students and children in our schools, the honourable Member is concerned that there is not enough funding in that particular area. This is where it comes from, that is what we deal with here in the Legislative Assembly. It is programs and services and the money to do the work. What we have been hearing over the last few years was that the funding in this particular area has not been increased, the forced growth has not been met, therefore this whole area has been declining, not in actual dollars being put into it, but because of the forced growth. There is a definite need there. The budget part of it is where can we find the extra dollars to put into the base, is what the honourable Member is talking about. We are not talking about a one-shot deal, we are talking about increasing the budget of this department to meet the needs that is there and address this problem. This is the level that we would deal with here.
You are asking what I see and what I will do when I get in there, I guess it is talk to the Minister responsible for it. He has raised that issue a number of times, that there is a definite need for assistance in that department. As a Cabinet, I suppose, and working with the Finance Minister, we are going to have to address that. Again, the problem is where are we going to get the extra dollars that are required, and how much is required, and where is it going to come from? As we all know, we have fixed dollars in the Legislative Assembly and whenever we are going to put money into another department's base, it has to come from some place else, or else we have to generate revenue somehow. Where can we do that? Perhaps, the Minister of Finance has been talking about looking at some sort of a tax that he is dealing with the federal government on. Perhaps, this is where this will come from. I do not know, I am not very familiar with that, but this is something that I am going to have to get familiar with. However, that is the way I see it right now. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Krutko.
Improve Oil and Gas Sector in the Northwest Territories
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My next question deals with the economy and the economic growth in the Northwest Territories. There has been a lot of emphasis put on money spent in developing the mining industry. I would like to ask the candidates what they will do to improve the oil and gas sector in the Northwest Territories? It seems like it is a low priority of this government at this time.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this government has an initiative. There is an economic strategy that has been worked on for the west, as well as for Nunavut. Not being really familiar with the strategy, except for the transportation part of it, this is something that, perhaps, this strategy is looking at. I agree with you. I have, particularly in my riding in the southwestern part of the territories, there is going to be 11 wells going in this year. The chief and the people of that region are fully involved with this whole initiative, on their own, perhaps we could say, but this government has been working along with them, and in the Sahtu and the Delta as well.
Perhaps diamonds were the big highlight and have dazzled everybody, but I think in the background there is work going on in the oil and gas sector. What I have to do is familiarize myself with that aspect of how this government could deal with it. I know there is some work going on with it, but I think if we could look at it more closely and see what has been done, and through communications and making people more aware of what we are doing, this would be one way of approaching it. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. One has been ensuring that as a Minister I have been directly involved in promoting oil and gas activity, in Calgary by meeting with oil companies and letting them know that communities are interested, prepared to do business, that as a government, we are encouraging oil and gas exploration. We have indicated our interest in trying to simplify the environment so that there are less regulations and red tape that oil and gas companies have to go through in order to do business in the Northwest Territories. We costed it out last year that a drilling program in Alberta is anywhere from $300,000 to $400,000 more expensive just across the border in the Northwest Territories because of federal regulations that these companies have to go through. That is one of the reasons that they have stayed south.
We have indicated to them that we want to take over oil and gas administration from Ottawa, we are looking at ways to try to do that, for instance by setting up a pilot project in the Sahtu. We have promoted direct contact between communities that have lands which are available, that are in the communities, where oil companies have actually bid on parcels of land. We have worked with communities to help them prepare to do business and give advice on how to do business, that in the posturing sometimes, we have actually discouraged and driven away oil and gas companies, so we have worked actively with both sides to encourage as much activity as possible. Activity that would provide maximum benefits, jobs training for communities.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions, Mr. Henry.
Devolution of Powers
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question will be to both candidates. We have all heard about the candidates' visions and goals. One has to be able to dream to create a vision. So I am going to ask both candidates to do a little dreaming, Mr. Chairman. You have just finished a Cabinet meeting on a GNWT position on devolution of powers from the federal government and you are about to walk into a meeting with all the aboriginal leaders of the new Western Territory. My question is, what are you going to tell the aboriginal leaders, particularly the ones that have refused to participate in the process to date. What will you tell them that they will have to do to ensure that the GNWT can rightfully obtain from the federal government an orderly devolution of powers and particularly the
resource revenue royalty sharing? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 1979, the Dene Chiefs met here in Yellowknife in February. At that meeting, the President, George Erasmus, made a proposal that we, as Dene people, should develop a strategy to put a Dene Member of Parliament in office in Ottawa. That we, as Dene people, should take part in the territorial elections that were going to be called later that year so that we can become effective participants in the decisions of this Legislature to take over control in those areas that this Legislature had, and to continue through the strategy to take on more and more responsibility for ourselves here in the north, and we would do it in partnership with everyone that lives in the Northwest Territories. I did not agree with the strategy, but the chiefs adopted it.
It has been my view since then that we are all compelled to support that strategy. It is my position that this government has now become effectively a part of the Dene strategy to assume more and more responsibility in the day to day affairs that we have. While some of our leaders do not recognize this government as a legitimate government - one that they have mandated to represent them as part of their inherent right to self-government - it is still an instrument to advance the work towards assuming and more responsibility. There is a way to get all aboriginal people, all aboriginal leaders on side in a devolution agreement. But, I believe they will agree to support this government's initiative, to assume more responsibility over inland waters, land and water management, oil, gas and minerals. The key is to hear the conditions that they insisted on and to reach agreement with them on it. Theirs is a very strong position in regard to self-government. They do have a right to know that some of the royalties and taxes that will come from development of resources in the lands up here should go this government because it is a public central government. Some of those resources and taxes should also go to aboriginal governments since they will also be providing services and programs to residents. These are the kind of things that they are looking for and these are the things that we can give them. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Henry is asking for me to do some dreaming here but the last few days I have not had many sleeps so what do I have to do. The scenario you laid out is going to be a really tough dream. You could converge it like a nightmare for me. But, hopefully we do not ever come to a position where we as a Cabinet will make a decision without the participation of the aboriginal First Nations. I think that is really the key. That is the key to having people in the north to control our own resources. We have to work very closely with the aboriginal First Nations, the Inuvialuits, the Metis and the Dene in this whole Western Territory in order for this to become a reality. We have been saying that for a number of years. Having come from being a chief and at one point in time, I said this government was not my government because of the imposition of ideas and programs that were put upon us without our consultation or without our input. But, again now some of us are here. We will make sure that we work closely with the First Nations to make sure this happens, but it has to happen.
I think we have progressed long and far enough through beginning of self-government arrangements and getting to the doorstep of negotiation in most of the areas. I think we have progressed far enough and I think the leadership in the aboriginal communities are aware of the funding shortage through the restraint that we imposed and we put it through ourselves. I think there has been a lot of talk between some of the Ministers who go into the communities. I know that whenever I go to the assemblies and having different meetings with the aboriginal leaders, I always talk about the funding. Some point in time, we are going to have to sit down and try to figure out how we gain control of all natural resources. The oil, gas, minerals in the lands and the waters in the Northwest Territories. It has to be done in conjunction with the aboriginal people in the north. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Henry.
Leadership Reflecting New Vision for the Western Territory
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you to both candidates for their responses. Mr. Chairman, the mandate or plan or direction of the present government was created and is reflective of all peoples of the Northwest Territories; east and west, Nunavut and the new Western Territory. Mr. Chairman, on April 1st, the government will lead and should be reflective of the people of the new Western Territory. My question to the candidates is, what will I see from that leadership that will reflect the new western vision after April 1st? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think we already have a document that is developed by the western MLAs, you know, the vision of 1999 and beyond. It is a stepping stone. It is a start. I think we have been working on it and that is at the beginning of the vision here after division. I think I agreed with having an election in the fall of October 4th for continuity's sake, so that there would be no major disruptions once Nunavut is created on its own and we are left here in the west. For stability and continuity, I agree with that process. We also have to prepare whoever is going to come after us with all the problems that are there, and all the different scenarios that are going to be there at the time. We would know starting in
April 1st, not having to deal with Nunavut issues, we will be on our own. We will be focusing only on the west. So, that changes the way we do business here as a Legislative Assembly. I think it will be our task then to work together to try to lay out all the different issues and how we see it happening for whoever is going to come after us in the election, October 4, 1999. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once division happens, I think all of us are going to be compelled to work to develop an identity for ourselves. Something that will begin to help us see the unique characteristics that set us apart and will set us apart from other Canadians. We are diverse as a Inuvialuit, Metis, Dene, even within the Dene Nation. We are diverse.
As northern peoples, each of us brings different strengths and characteristics to our community. I believe that is an important part of our work ahead to start to articulate what it is that sets us apart, what it is that makes us northern peoples, and what would make us unique as citizens of the new Northwest Territories. I think that is beginning already, but also I think part of the vision is that we will always be a part of Nunavut. We will always be neighbours, strong supporters and a close friend to the people of Nunavut because of the enormous ties that we will have and the common history that we have had for so many years. That is going to be part of the character and the identity of those of us that live in the western part of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Fear of Speaking out
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Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my questions will be for both candidates for Premier. Mr. Chairman, during the course of the research that I have done over the past year, I was shocked at the number of people in the public service and the number of business people who were outright fearful to speak out, to speak their mind, to voice opinions with respect to fear of reprisal from this government. I would like to know what each of the candidates think could be done to allay that. I know in other jurisdictions they have things like whistle blower legislation where it is a criminal offence to retaliate against people who speak out in the course of doing their job. I do not where this became so entrenched in our government and how it could have escalated to the point that people could have this kind of fear for their business and for their jobs. It alarmed me. I would like to know what each candidate would do to address that situation.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all I have to familiarize myself with that particular situation. I have not been aware that it is that bad. I know that people in the civil service have indicated, everyone I have worked with in the departments that I am Minister of, that what I have is that it was pretty good. I did not see any problems. Perhaps it has not been expressed to me, Mr. Chairman, but that is something that is done. If you could ask the different members within the civil service for their own comments and suggestions on how to get things done better. I think that might be a way of doing it. I do not know how to do that. Again I would have to familiarize myself with that whole area. As for businesses, I was not aware that businesses were fearful of their work. I am not familiar with that. I am not aware of that. If that is the case, it should not happen in the Government in the Northwest Territories.
I think people that work within the civil service should not be fearful of their own opinions. Everybody has their opinions and because one or two people have a difference of opinion does not mean one side is right and the other side is wrong. There are different ways of looking at things. I learned that many years ago, Mr. Chairman. In public life there are different ways of approaching it. I think that there should be something put in place. I do not know what this whistle blower legislation is. Again, I have to familiarize myself with that. As for the businesses being afraid for not getting work, I am not too familiar with that either, but if that is the case, that issue should not be happening. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that we have resolved to do through the adoption of the Report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner is to address the whole area of how government operates; how the Cabinet conducts itself; the rules, guidelines and policies that exist or do not exist - we always look for ways to improve that - the way that government goes about doing its work, giving instructions to the civil service, the way in which the civil service is expected to respond and the way that they actually do. The public wants to know how we make decisions about how to spend money, how we go about deciding what to contract, to sole source and to negotiate. I think we have to be transparent and upfront about these things. Is there a perception that perhaps we have been unfair? I believe the perception is there. We need to look at the way in which we deal with our senior managers; how people are hired and how they are fired; why some people are given their walking papers and how some people are not. I believe we need to look at the way in which we relate to our senior managers collectively. What is the understanding and the agreement that we have with them? Are they really totally at pleasure of the Premier and the individual Ministers?
On the issue of contracts, there have been many questions in this House about how we deal with contracts; how certain contracts end up being awarded and whether this government and this Cabinet thinks we are right in what we do or not. We have that perception problem. I believe that it is my job to address that, not deny it, but say if that is the perception that we have a problem and to get down to dealing with that. Maybe there is no problem, maybe there is. It is not a fight about you are right and I am wrong, or I am right and you are wrong, rather there is a perception problem. If you have concerns, you have a right to address them and we have an obligation to resolve them. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Just before we ask for more questions, after Mrs. Groenewegen asks this question we will take a short break. I realize that TVNC is on. With Mrs. Groenewegen's question and maybe with the response from the Ministers they will have enough time to do something short
between that ten minute break. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Independent Review Process on Contracts Entered Into
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Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Antoine and Mr. Kakfwi, for those responses. As I have indicated previously in the House, I believe that some of the decisions of recent years, I would say even since the 13th Assembly came into place that there have been some very long term and lucrative contracts entered into. As I also previously said, I do not believe that the investigation that has taken place covered all of those matters. Although we are going to tighten up as we move forward, what would the candidates' opinion be of having an independent and very critical look at some of the decisions and some of the obligations that were committed to by this government, during the past three years, either through an independent person or through the Auditor General's office so that we could analyze those that would require some openness and access to the decisions that are made, but it would require the approval of the Premier, and I would like to know what their opinion is on that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope that the Chairman would agree to let us get through this question period and on with the election before a lunch break. We are hungry, but we are more hungry for a resolution to this.
--Laughter
I would appreciate if you would agree to that. Mr. Chairman, the question is, there are contracts entered into by this government that may be of concern to Members of the Legislature and would I be prepared to support the suggestions that they be reviewed to be looked at. I would say that barring any legal problems, that it would be a good exercise for any government to be reviewed. We certainly are reviewed by the Auditor General. It is not inconceivable that we be reviewed through some exercise by Members of the Legislature, in a way through a process that they find agreeable. I see no reason why we could not be transparent about the things we do now, the things we do in the future and the things we have done in the past since they all relate to one another, and are relevant in the exercise in trying to improve the way we do business. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just before I answer the questions, I agree with my colleague, that even if we take a lunch break, I do not think I will be eating until this is resolved. I support him in that. Mr. Chairman, that is a very difficult question. I do not know whether the question is to go through all of the contracts that this government has done. In my statement, I kind of wanted to put things aside and just carry on with the work that is ahead of us. If the question is, will we go back and have somebody or some forum, the Auditor General, or some forum to take a look at maybe some of the contracts, I do not know how you are going to pick and choose which ones you are going to look at and if that is the case. I know the amount of work that goes into research and I think our staff in the different departments are very busy in preparation of just doing the normal day to day work and in preparation for division and so forth.
My honest opinion, is that I am going to have a difficult time agreeing to something like that if it is very comprehensive and it is going to take a lot of time and energy to do it. What would that prove? I think the outcome would be that we did everything right maybe, or is it transparent, but why would we want to do that is my question. Because of the reasons that I stated I would have a very difficult time agreeing to something like this. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. We have Ms. Thompson, Mr. Erasmus, and then Mr. Arlooktoo. We will take a short ten minute break.
--Break
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. The next person on the list is Ms. Thompson.
Position on Negotiated Contracts
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question was, what is your position on negotiated contracts?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
That is for both candidates. Mr. Antoine.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my position on negotiated contracts is that it is a good policy that this government has. It has been very successful in the smaller communities. It has developed skills and entrepreneurship and it has brought dollars into the local economy, trained a lot of people and so forth. It is a good policy and even though there is a lot of criticism, there are a lot of questions about it today, I think it is still a very good policy. What will happen here now with all the different, very transparent way of doing things in the right way. I think we are going to have to take a really close look at this negotiated contract policy again. However, we still should retain that policy, even after we take a really good review of it. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with Mr. Antoine, I think it is a good policy. It has certainly brought a tremendous amount of increased benefits to the smaller communities, the more remote outlying regions. To be able to negotiate many of the contracts they have, there is a couple of concerns. One is, there is no access sometimes by other contractors that feel they may be able to do the same type of work, but do not have an opportunity to demonstrate that. You also have a concern about whether or not we are getting a fair return for our public dollars expended. It will be interesting to see how communities and regions and what policies they would adopt if we gave them the ability to control capital expenditures within their respective regions, and whether they would follow the same policies or not at this time. At this time I think, as controversial as it is, it has been the position of this government that negotiated contracts are in the public interest and we will continue to do that for some time in the future. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Second question. Ms. Thompson.
Competitive Negotiated Contracts
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My second question for both candidates is, when do you feel that a company that obtains negotiated contracts is deemed to be competitive? I guess it is like saying, when do you become an elder? When do you feel that a company that obtains negotiated contracts is deemed to be competitive? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
One sure way of telling that is when some of its workers start to ask for the right to bid on the contracts that go into the company in the first place, particularly in the smaller communities. That is one very clear indication. You have to allow for tenders that sole source or negotiated contracts in specific communities are no longer viable or desirable. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the question I believe was, some indication of when companies or corporations in the communities will be finished going after negotiated contracts. I do not know, Mr. Chairman, when is that going to be. Now if there are companies that had enjoyed negotiated contracts in some of the communities, perhaps a community has grown and there are more companies in that particular community, perhaps that is when it is time to publicly tender contracts for them to participate in. In some cases there are companies that have been negotiating for some time, that are in a position to negotiate. Once that happens, that is when negotiated contracts should not be going to these companies. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions. Mr. Erasmus.
Affirmative Action
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is for both of the candidates, it is in the area of affirmative action. Mr. Chairman, for some time now we have been hearing complaints from affirmative action candidates who have applied for jobs and I am talking about complaints coming from all types of long-term northerners, aboriginal and non-aboriginal, people who were born here or lived more than half their life here. I am being told that they received an interview through affirmative action and then they are told that they blew the interview, so they are losing out on the jobs. What they are saying is, they do not feel that they are getting a fair shake and there is too much emphasis placed on the interview because affirmative action policy seems to indicate that if you can do the job, you should be able to get the job.
Secondly, that there is no independent body in the hiring process anymore. Even if they appeal, there is no independent person there to indicate whether things were done properly or not. I would like to know from each of the candidates what they would do to improve the affirmative action process since this falls under the Premier and in particular, I would like to know how they feel about having an independent body or person back into the job selection process. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. There are two questions to each of the candidates. Mr. Kakfwi.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is understood for quite a long time now that the interview part of the hiring process has always been the most difficult part for many of our people. Many of our aboriginal people do not like - this exercise is a case in point. Trying to answer questions in a way that would cause them to brag or try to present the best possible side of themselves. It is culturally difficult for many of us to do that and yet, that is what an interview process compels us to do. I understand that particular problem. I know many people who have blown interviews and job applications because of the interview. They are qualified, they can do the job in many cases, they have demonstrated they could do the job, but for some reason the interview goes terribly wrong and they are not offered the job. I believe that there should be some way to look at that. Perhaps an independent body is required here, I do not know. I do know that it is one of the areas of work that needs to be done.
The people in Nunavut would certainly choose to address that in their own way. Those of us that will live in the western part of the Northwest Territories I think can agree to work as a Cabinet with Members of the Legislature to look at that policy and make improvements. We still need a lot of work to meet our affirmative action targets in a whole range of areas, certainly in the senior management. If the current policy is making it difficult for us to achieve that, then of course we have to review it and together because it is a priority of this government and this legislature that requires attention by some sort of a standing committee. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you. I think the Affirmative Action Policy is a good policy within this government. The intentions are good in there to try to get a lot of aboriginal people within the workforce. The intention originally was to reflect the population of the north in the government civil service. What indications are, is that it did not happen.
We have changed the way we do hiring. The personnel department had been done away with once we did the fiscal restraint exercises and now every department is responsible for their own hiring and they have their own personnel within each department. If there is a problem by aboriginal people and I heard that there are some instances where there are allegations made that they were overlooked, even though they were qualified, because they blew their interviews. If that is the case, then I certainly would like to take a really good look at it. I think that enforcing the full measure of the Affirmative Action Policy is the way I would like to see it go. If there are some problems with it, we should try to identify where they are and address those problems.
As for an independent body in the hiring place, I think there needs to be something of that nature, where people feel they would like to look at it again by an independent person, then we should take a look at it. I know that in the hiring process there is an appeal process, as well and in many instances, I am aware that where there is a successful candidate, and once an appeal is in place, in come cases, the appeal is withheld. It is a long drawn-out process that is in place already. If there is a problem, then certainly I would like to really take a good look at it after getting familiar with that whole policy and what it is doing to date. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions. Mr. Arlooktoo, and then Mr. Ng. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Providing Goods and Service to Nunavut
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to be able to ask questions to my fellow MLAs, I will be asking questions to only one of the candidates. This is not to be unfair, but I wanted to have Mr. Antoine clarify his position on a matter that Mr. Kakfwi spoke to in his opening comments.
The people of Nunavut recognize that despite the fact that Nunavut will be created in only 14 weeks, Nunavut residents recognize there will be a requirement to work closely with the western Northwest Territories. There will be a requirement that for the next three to five years, Nunavut will have to buy some services from the west. This will require trust, cooperation and goodwill. I would like to ask Mr. Antoine the following question, what are you prepared to do if you are elected to Premier, to ensure that the Government of the Northwest Territories will treat Nunavut with fairness, equality and respect? How would you achieve that? How can Nunavut residents be assured of that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (Translation ends)
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as the people of Nunavut will be in control of their own affairs after April 1, 1999, and even leading up to it, we are aware that they are not fully prepared to take on all aspects of providing programs and services which they will eventually be doing. We are aware that there are going to be programs and services that arrangements will be made between the Western Territory and Nunavut, and the Western Territory will continue to provide those programs and services. There has to be some arrangements made between the two territories to provide that service. There are going to be costs involved and we will continue to provide those programs and services to Nunavut. That arrangement is already being worked on, it is in place. I will honour that arrangement as it gets into place.
Again, I will have to familiarize myself with that whole arrangement and work with the people in Nunavut, the MLAs here, and certainly would like to meet with the Office of the Interim Commissioner and see if there is any way that we could develop a closer working relationship where the lines of communication will open. If there are any problems that arise during the transition through this communication process, we would try to address these problems. I think in this way, hopefully that will build a good working relationship and that there is trust there and we would certainly like to cooperate with them. I have supported Nunavut when the decision was made some time ago to go that route, for division. I continue to do so today and I think the reality is, we will be neighbours. There needs to be a close working relationship even after division.
We work closely with the Yukon, we have similar problems, we have been working with the provinces, mainly in Alberta. We deal with the northern part of British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba as well, today. Similar to that, Nunavut will be our neighbours to the east and we will have to continue to have a close working relationship with Nunavut after the creation of Nunavut. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Arlooktoo.
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not in the form of a question but to clarify once again, there is an issue that Mr. Kakfwi spoke to already in his opening comments so I do not believe I require an answer from him, I know what it is. Having said that, I have known both gentlemen for the past few years and I wish both of them the best of luck, thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Arlooktoo, there was no question there. Mr. Ng.
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, both relationship between Nunavut and the New Western Territory candidates and Members of the House recognize the establishment of Nunavut is a substantive relationship in respect to the common history, as Mr. Kakfwi spoke to and the contracting relationship that is going to take place between the jurisdictions, and I appreciate Mr. Arlooktoo's question on that. Both candidates have recognized that there is a need to establish a good working relationship, we are neighbours because of the history and that, I would like to ask both of them what process do they envision in establishing and nurturing and developing that positive relationship between the western government and the incoming Nunavut government and Premier. What process would they use to ensure that happens? Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
We will start with Mr. Kakfwi.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The relationship between the two territories will be primarily between the two Cabinets, the two Premiers and Members of the Legislature. It will require that we have regular meetings, meetings conducted in Nunavut and in the new Western Territory. We have a tremendous amount of issues that we are going to work on together, relationships with Ottawa, how to get Nunavut into the numerous meetings of provinces and territories, ministerial bodies, that the Northwest Territories currently sits on. There are fiscal relations, contract services and issues that are common to both the territories that will require on-going and frequent discussions between the two governments. The process will be one of constant and frequent contact and discussions between our respective senior management. That will probably be an area that we should start working on as soon as possible. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Nunavut will be having their election in February and then there will be, by mid-February, we will have an indication of who the 19 Members are going to be. I think that will be a starting point. This Northwest Territories, we are very small and people who are putting their name forward, I am familiar with most of them and whoever is successful in their bid to be Members of the Legislative
Assembly for the first Nunavut Legislative Assembly, will be known. Being familiar with the people there is a start. I have known a lot of people in Nunavut on a personal basis and I think we all do that in the north, we are very familiar and friendly with everybody else, so that is a good start.
Once the Legislative Assembly is developed into a full Legislative Assembly, and once they go through their process in the early part of April of who their Premier is going to be and who is going to be on Cabinet, I think they are on their own and they are separate from us and we have to treat them as a separate entity then. It is a different process altogether. Once they get their government into place, I think, along with all the other provincial governments and territorial governments, we will congratulate them and make contact.
We have a special relationship with Nunavut already because we all know we are going to be providing programs and services so there will be arrangements made with the Office of the Interim Commissioner there that will tie us into Nunavut already. There are a number of areas where the processes are in place and I think there is going to have to be some sort of a formal type of an agreement there. We use a memorandum of understanding type of agreement with other jurisdictions, perhaps that is one way of making the formal type of arrangement with Nunavut, once they are in place. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Process to Ensure Program Effectiveness
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you. I would like to thank both of the Members for their answers. I, too, would like to wish them both success in their bid to be Premier. It is unfortunate that there is only one successful candidate, but my final question, Mr. Chairman, is there has been talk about looking at programs, about recognizing priorities and possibly shifting resources based on what those priorities would be. I know we went through an exercise when we first came into office, I would like to ask both candidates again, what process would they put in place to assess or evaluate the effectiveness of our current programs as they move towards the possibility of making that type of a decision? Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Whenever we undertake any process, it is in conjunction and working with the Members of the Cabinet and with Members of the Legislative Assembly. We all know through the line of questioning that has taken place in the last few days of questioning, that there are a lot of concerns by the public, and by MLAs here, representing their public on the type of areas where we should be looking at. I think that in the very short remaining life of this Legislative Assembly as we know it, somebody mentioned 14 weeks to go, what can we do in 14 weeks? It is very hard to do. These are just my thoughts but for the process, we are going to have to look at the Cabinet itself and see if there is any opportunity there.
In our line of questioning today, what I did is identify that, yes, there are limited resources out there to do everything that we need to do, we have to look at maybe the bigger picture of trying to acquire additional revenue from some means or other, but if we are going to be, I did not really get into the area of shifting funding from one area to the other. My view is, if we are going to do what some of the MLAs have been asking, if we do not have any other source of revenue, that is what we are going to have to end up doing, looking at shifting dollars from elsewhere within the whole system. That is a difficult choice to make because once you do that, there are going to be problems raised in other sectors of this government. We are all aware of that. It is going to have to be done through a really close working relationship with all the Members in the Cabinet if that is the direction we are going to go. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. It is my intention to focus even more energy and commitment on the relationship with Ottawa. It should be a fairly simple matter to get additional monies through our economic initiatives to replace the original Economic Development Agreement. It is not a difficult exercise. We got hung up on this exercise of trying to draft an economic strategy and we have been unable to provide to Ottawa an economic strategy on a timely basis, which is supposed to produce new dollars, badly needed dollars to replace the now defunct Economic Development Agreement monies. You can always look at the budget to see if there are any additional ways to streamline. We know that amalgamation, for instance, was put on hold by this Legislature because we felt we have done enough, but there is work to do with Ottawa and Mr. Martin on the tax window. A way to increase our revenue by increasing the tax window.
We have ways to create additional jobs through pursuing value added activities in the diamond industry which we have been slowly, but methodically developing. Every time we create a job, means there are less people on social assistance. It means two or three more people who do not have to apply for social assistance and take away scarce dollars from that particular envelope. We have to continue to be aggressive in working to create jobs in the oil and gas industry, mining industry, diamond industry, and trying to attract more and more tourists up here because that sector of the economy is the one that benefits Colville Lake and Kakisa as much as it does Yellowknife and Inuvik. It expands right across the territories. People come, they spend their money, they leave. It is incredibly friendly, it does not tax our infrastructure throughout the entire year. We need to increase the amount of dollars that come in from that sector. Those are some of the things that I think we can, and should do and continue to do. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Steen.
Cabinet Performance and Existing Contractual Policies
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question is directed to both candidates. I would like to know what steps are the candidates prepared to take to assure Cabinet performance and compliance with existing contractual policies?
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are
existing policies and regulations in place and any time that contracts come up, I make sure that I try to get the best advice I can from my staff to tell me if this is the proper way to do this, that every thing has been taken into consideration on the way things are suppose to get done. I will maintain that approach at a higher level, at the Cabinet level, to make sure that whatever steps are needed to be taken to ensure that everything is complied with. The rules and regulations and policies are there. I think that if we abide by them, they are put in there so that we have safeguards on how we do things and if we do it accordingly, we will not run into any problems. There is concern in the last few days, last few weeks, that there are grey areas in the policies. We already said that we are going to be looking at these policies to be sure that we tighten them up.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman. How Cabinet conducts itself and how it goes about its work is fundamentally important to everyone. It is my view that one of the things that can be done almost immediately is to put in place senior staff, for instance, a principal secretary who has a background in law, who would have the respect and confidence of everyone in Cabinet including the Legislature, who would have the confidence and the support of Cabinet to just tell it like it is. If there is something before Cabinet that compels us to review and question the way we resolve this issue, then it should be said, the deputy minister of the Executive. As I was saying, these people are critical. Their advice is critical. They should feel free to offer their views without fear to the Cabinet -- in their view what should the Cabinet do in the best interests of government, in the best interests of the Legislature, in the best interests of the public.
We can look at the way in which Ministers conduct business within their departments so that they are advised, if the way in which they conduct business with their Departments needs some revision, needs some clarification and to assure that deputy ministers, each and every one of them is compelled to conduct business in a way that conforms to government policy as they see it. If they have difficulty with that and they feel Ministers' instructions or direction is getting them to an area where they are not comfortable following, they should feel free to talk to the deputy minister of the Executive, bring it up to the respective Ministers and the Premier, so it can be dealt with, without fear of reprisal, without fear that they may be punished, without fear that they may stand in disfavour of their Ministers. We have to find a way to do that. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Steen.
Regional Director Beaufort Delta Area
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my second question is, again, directed to both candidates. Mr. Chairman, the leadership in the Beaufort Delta Area have identified a shortage of funding for a position which used to be a regional director to coordinate the efforts of all the superintendents in the region. The question is, would the candidates be willing to consider reinstating funding for those types of positions that would be answerable to their office.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my view and, in fact, it is in part of my speech. The best parts I did not give this morning. There is a feeling on my part that we need to address the fact that in the more remote regions, say Inuvik, perhaps the Baffin is the same, perhaps the Kitikmeot and Keewatin, although they will deal with those themselves in the new administration being set up now.
I know that in the Sahtu and in the Inuvik region, we desperately need someone, some office to coordinate the information and activities of all the departments. I go back to my region, the Sahtu, and it is impossible for me to know when one person - what the different departments are doing in that region. I have to go to each separate official and ask them. It is just not possible to do that anymore. At one time we would go into Inuvik, and the regional director would meet us and he would be working with the different departments and the superintendents, exactly what was happening in all the communities in each department and the status of projects and activities being conducted at that moment. It is a tremendous amount of work for any Member of the Legislature, or the public, for that matter to get a snapshot, an assessment, a summary of the government's activities in this region. I would feel compelled, to say that I would strongly support the re-establishment of some sort of a position like that. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think what is happening now after the regional directors have been released in our budget restraint exercise a couple of years ago, was that the existing superintendents of each of the departments have the senior management meeting on a regular basis and they are trying to coordinate among themselves a sense of working together. I think what I am hearing is that it is a difficult arrangement because each superintendent in some areas take the alternate on who does it. There is a need for a coordination of some sort.
We did this exercise because we are trying to put more say into the communities and of the community governments into the regional governments. It was done to try to accommodate that, but any time you make a change there are always some unexpected and anticipated problems that come out as a result of change. This may be an area where we need to look at some sort of a coordinating role to try to pull all these regions together. I agree I have been up to Inuvik as well, and it is a fairly large region and I think things used to function a lot smoother at one time when there was a regional director in place. Yes, I would be willing to look at this a lot closer and saying what we could do to have better coordination up there. It may be that there be an individual identified to solely do that. Maybe that is where we are going to go. I guess my answer to Mr. Steen is that, yes, I certainly would be willing to look at that if things fall into place.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have heard a number of questions being raised earlier on the fact of accountability. My first question would be addressed to both candidates in regard to accountability. I am aware that in the past Assemblies, the Premier held on file letters of resignation from all Ministers that were on Cabinet and in the event of any
incident occurring that found the Minister to be contravening any of the policies or so on, that letter could be pulled. I do not believe that was the case of this Assembly, but if successful would you look at reinstating or requesting a letter of resignation be put on file from your Ministers? Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
That will be Mr. Kakfwi first.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that we have established fairly well the fact that the Premier is, in fact, the first person in Cabinet to answer for the conduct of the Ministers. In my view he does not require an undated, prepared letter of resignation from his respective Ministers in the event that he would want them to resign. There is sufficient loyalty in the Ministers, as I have seen in the three Cabinets that I have been in, that does not require this. I believe that Ministers will resign if asked by the Premier barring that a Premier can render a Minister without portfolio. That would compel, I think, all of us to address that issue if it ever got to that stage. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am not going to ask for a letter of resignation. I think that the colleagues that have worked within Cabinet have a lot of loyalty and then there is honour and I believe that if any Minister is in trouble, I think that we all would be aware of it. Then, if it is serious enough and it will get to that, the Premier will ask for a letter of resignation and go that route. Again, there is a fair system that was set up here in the last while in this Cabinet that the Premier is the leader and he calls the shots and whenever somebody is out of line that it be his duty to inform the Minister that he is out of line. If it is serious enough, we will probably have to ask for their resignation and I think it will be honoured. Thank you.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another concern we have heard a lot of is the fact, that in the area of social programs, it is a driving factor of this government it seems when it comes to the budget. One of the ways I believe to help reduce the dependence on government is in the area of employment. This goes to both candidates in the area of employment strategy, what would the candidates see as being an avenue or a way of promoting this? Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think we have been promoting all the opportunities that are there already when it comes to trying to create new employment. I think the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment has initiated an employment strategy as a government strategy. The different opportunities are there, the whole area of mining, the whole area of the diamond mines. I think this government really put a lot of effort into trying to secure the whole process of as much employment for the north as they possibly can. I think the First Nations, too, are very aggressive in that manner and in diamond mines and they are able to secure some concessions so that maybe there will be as much employment in the north and in the local communities as possible.
There is a lot of potential elsewhere, like in the gas and oil field in the Inuvik area. There is an initiative on the part of the Inuvialuit, I believe, and we certainly encourage that. In the Sahtu there is going to be some work this year that is going to create employment in that area. Oil and gas in the Deh Cho area is very big and there is a lot of opportunity for training initiatives going on in that area. We encourage wherever it is acceptable by the communities to pursue these type of new areas. Again, in our own programs and services, through contracts we are able to have work being done in most of the communities. In the area of housing and in areas of construction, in the areas of maybe highway maintenance and so forth. In this way we continue to do that.
As for new strategy, certainly we are going to have to pursue that. There is the economic strategy that is underway and the transportation strategy is part of it and through the transportation strategy, if we are successful in obtaining some funding, I think that it will create a lot of employment. If we strategize, especially on the Mackenzie Valley Highway route, even the route right into Tuktoyaktuk, strategies come out and if we are able to find funding for them, I think that certainly is going to create some employment.
As for the overall economic strategy, I am not very familiar with it, however, that is also one we are supposed to address like there are different Ministers that are associated with, myself, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ng, along with Mr. Todd. These are different portfolios that have some kind of attachments to the economic strategy because we are looking at trying to find some money through the Minister of Finance, through RWED, it generates employment and so forth.
Through Mr. Dent there is the training element. The educational element, through Mr. Ng is the social aspect of the whole thing and is right in line of what Mr. Roland is talking about is, once you create employment it alleviates the social problems. I think that we have to, as legislators, keep that in mind and I think once this economic strategy is further developed, I think we are going to look at it closer to see where it is at and where it is going. Perhaps, we may have to revitalize it and put more effort into it. Perhaps, I think there is work being done on it. However, I think there should be more input by stakeholders on the whole process. I think we need to, not only the Ministers get involved from departments, but the people as well in the communities who may have good ideas on how to deal with us in the economic strategy here for the west and as well as the strategy for Nunavut. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that we have not really done everything we can yet to exploit the existing opportunities we have. For instance, in all our communities we have women that sew, that produce crafts. We need to develop markets for them so that they can continue doing the things they do now, educate them about the kind of products that are in demand now so that, for instance, moccasins are no longer required in large numbers and what type of product is. We need to continue supporting people that want to trap because that is the most productive way in which
they live. It is counterproductive for us to let them live in the communities without making a living.
The existing jobs that we have, we have to try to protect them, keep our minds operating, continue looking for new mines to open and operate in an environmentally safe way, ways that would benefit local businesses, provide jobs and training. We will continue to work with oil and gas activities as I have said earlier. We need to work on tourism because we are a small jurisdiction and we absolutely have to work with the Yukon, Alberta and people in Nunavut to sell the north to tourists across the world. We need to work with western provinces in the area of trade and developing infrastructure so that we are not spending our scarce dollars on things that we can do in partnership with other jurisdictions. This, in the end, I think, will keep free whatever few additional dollars we may be able to find to put back into the social envelope, into education and training, into health and social services, because we know that we have to increase the base on those areas.
That is my view, that we have to recognize that we are small and that we have to maximize in the areas that we are good at, to maximize our dollars by sharing work and coordinating our efforts with other jurisdictions and our neighbours. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Questions. Mr. Morin.
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is to both Members and, as we are well aware, in the Northwest Territories every time we want to move ahead and every time we want to, for example, do devolution or do an economic strategy, do anything in the Northwest Territories, the major issue that comes to the front each time is aboriginal self-government and the inherent right of aboriginal people to have self-government.
I want to know from both Members what they will do to advance, in my region especially, the Treaty 8 land entitlement process, as well as the South Slave Metis Nation claim process. I would like to know also if they support the right of aboriginal peoples to make the choice of how they would like to govern themselves. I know that the government has always said that they support a partnership as well as I do, but do those aboriginal groups have the right to chose between partnership and parallel systems? Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
There were two questions there. I have Mr. Antoine first.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yes, I believe in the aboriginal self-government position that this government has taken. There are provisions in the policy, now we will instruct our negotiators to sit down with the, for instance, the Treaty 8, Akaitcho territory leadership and the South Slave Metis to look at self-government, either it be a partnership model, or be a parallel system. These things have put to be in place with the western government's issue.
We have changed the policy so that it will accommodate them, because for many years, we have been negotiating self-government arrangements based on the inherent right to self-government with the federal government, which was to try to negotiate self-government arrangements through the public government system. We found out through the two and a half years of negotiations that is not the direction that First Nations want to go. If we truly believe in the inherent right to self-government, then they have the right to choose. It is their inherent right. We cannot tell them that, sure, we can negotiate self-government arrangements but you have got to do it through the public system. You cannot do that because that right is not there for us to direct them into what type of system of self-government they should choose. The choice is up to them. That is what they have been telling us all along, that we have the right to choose how we want to see ourselves and they want to have a working relationship with us. I believe that, as well, that even though they decide to take a parallel system, they will be in a position where they will be working with us as partners, because the reality is, we all live together here in the north. That is the position that I take on this one. I think I handled both questions. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. I like the response that Mr. Antoine made. I would not want to add or take away from it. I simply say that I am in agreement with the response he made to the question. Thank you.
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the past three years, the Members of the Legislative Assembly, as well as Cabinet, worked very hard to balance the books of the government and worked very hard to ensure that when they moved into the creation of two new territories, we did it on sound financial footing. It raises some concern when I hear potential candidates saying that they are willing to spend $1 million to open communication into the regions, where there may be cheaper methods, but are both candidates committed to keeping a balanced budget for the Northwest Territories and as well as holding the line on the spending of the Government of the Northwest Territories, so that we do not go into debt?
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. I am committed to maintain a balanced budget and that if we are to incur a deficit, we must demonstrate that we have the means of getting out of it and a plan that would be acceptable to Members of the Legislature. I have no difficulty, I have been there for the last three years, along with everybody else and I have gone through the pain of cutbacks. It is not one that anyone in this Legislature is ever interested in doing again. When I arrived here, making some very difficult decisions, I would not be wanting to go back into a situation where we would have to do this type of exercise again. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
There is only one other person in this Chamber that has not asked any questions yet. That is Mr. Dent. You have an opportunity, do you wish to?
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question has been somewhat touched on by...
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Just hang on, Mr. Dent. I am sorry. Mr. Antoine, you have to respond.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the question of Mr. Morin was, am I going to hold the line on the budget position that we have taken over the last three years? It was a difficult job of balancing the books, and yes, all the replies and the answers that I have given in this House are from the understanding that we will hold the line. I thought that was the understanding, but if it is not, then I want to say categorically that all the answers I answered in the House here pertaining to the different questions from different honourable Members in regard to the areas of where we should be concentrating our resources, are based on the fact that we have a balanced budget and I would like to maintain that.
However, I have also gone on to say that, in some areas, I will have to get familiarized with the certain situations and I will have to look further into these, but if the findings are there, then we should do the different types of work that has to get done, to get it done. I have also said that we may have to look at the existing budget. If a certain program and service needs some additional funds into the base, then we have to look within the system to try and get it from some place else. Within the line of these answers, I was assuming that people are aware that I am in the position of keeping a balanced budget. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent. I am sorry, again.
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is related to questions that were asked earlier by Mr. Ng and touched on by Mr. Roland. They are actually related to the balanced budget issue as well. Given the fact that we have a very tight budget in the last few years and the cuts that we have had to make, there has been considerable pressure on the social envelope. Those departments, Health and Social Services, ECE, Justice, Housing Corporation, have been struggling to keep up with the demand for services. I know I have heard both Members and the public talk about the need to get the monies to these departments, but right now there are some who say that the social envelope takes such a large portion of our budget, that it cannot continue to grow. As others have noted, we have heard in this House, from people across the Northwest Territories, that they see this area as critical right now.
I am going to make it easy for the Members because they have both touched on this, but I want it to be very clear and on the record what their position is. In the absence of new funds being made available, I want to hear from both candidates, will you commit to working with your Finance Minister to facilitate a serious discussion about government fiscal priorities that may lead to a reallocation of funding among the departments? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. I will start with Mr. Antoine. Okay, Mr. Kakfwi first.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mahsi. Yes, it would be an area of priority for myself, as the elected Premier, to work with the Finance Minister to give direction, hopefully with the support of Cabinet, to find the means possible to reallocate existing dollars, perhaps from other departments to the social envelope, so that some of the critical areas where we have cut back in previous years could be addressed, even in part, by those Ministers that have had to hold the line in the face of some rather very, very difficult situations such as the Minister of Health and Social Services, the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To that question, yes, I will commit myself to working with the Finance Minister to look at the total budget, to see where we are at and what we have, and where we are going. Certainly and with the concerns that are raised here, today, we are going to have to re-look at the direction that we are going. At the same time, we are trying to maintain a balanced budget, going into division. That is the key factor there, it certainly means that we will have to look at the existing budget of each department and then if working along with the Cabinet and along with the Finance Minister if there is areas on how we could add to the base of the social envelope, then we certainly would have to look at that very seriously. It is going to be hard work and it is going to be a struggle. If that is the direction we have to go, then we will have to do it. It is going to be a tough decision. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Your second question, Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to say that I, too, think we have two good candidates here and look forward to working with the new premier and continue the good working relationship with both of them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
There is no one else that is in the Chamber who has not asked questions. Mr. Rabesca.
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James Rabesca North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the candidates a question regarding the balanced budget that we are expecting and then the deficit has dropped approximately since we have been working at it the last three years. I would imagine it would be easier to manage the whole administration as funding might be available in the future. I would like to ask the two candidates whether they foresee any more funding made available to every department within the whole administration, such as Municipal and Community Affairs and Transportation and, if so, if they foresee any unfinished projects, such as my community airport to be completed? Would there be any money available since we will be out of deficit as we are approaching the balanced budget? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Antoine.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in regard to the balanced budget, there is no deficit. In fact, there might be a slight surplus there that was indicated earlier on. It is projected to be there. At this point of time, like I said, I would like to maintain the balanced budget line and not get into any deficit. Whatever funding that we are going to have has to come from within the system.
Some of the areas such as the social envelope issues cannot be dealt with like a one-shot deal. You cannot take a few dollars from say, the surplus and put in for it in the one year. You have to deal with it on the longer term. You have to find existing dollars some place within the system and put it into the base so that the budget grows on a yearly basis. If you have a surplus, it does not mean that a certain department is going to get additional dollars on an ongoing basis. That is not the answer for the bigger issues that we have here. The departments need additional dollars on an ongoing basis, but in the specific cases like, for example, the airport that you mentioned in Rae-Edzo. It is a one-shot deal. There is something in place now to try to identify extra resources for that as a one-shot deal. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. One of the areas that is going to be critical for us as a government is to maintain our population. Any decrease in population will result in a dramatic decrease in our funding. Loss of as little as 500 people in our population base would result in a reduction in actually millions of dollars in the money that we get from Ottawa. We have to take whatever measure we can to ensure that there is not a population decrease here in the Northwest Territories.
We have said that the tax window, if we can increase it from 20 or 30 percent to 50 percent, will result in an increase in dollars available to this government on an ongoing basis. We need to keep working on that. As a government, we are committed to try to do that in a concerted effort over the next few months. With the focus on devolution again, if the Premier would make a very strong effort to come to agreement with the federal government and the aboriginal groups up here on the basis to proceed on devolution. In any case, we will continue to also work with the federal government to transfer federal positions to the Northwest Territories that will in turn add to our economic base, our population base.
We need to continue working to promote oil and gas activities as I have said earlier and support mining activity, exploration. For every job we create it means there is less people depending on the social envelope that frees up dollars that are scarce right now within that envelope. Any one-time deals, I think, are easier to deal with though, in fact, then an ongoing increase based to the departments. Projects like the airport have been received favourably by our Ministers and the Dogrib people have been advised apparently that our Ministers, at least, individually, a number of them are definitely on side and will be positioning themselves to support that one-time capital requirement. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Rabesca.
Top Priority As Prospective Premier to March 31, 1999
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James Rabesca North Slave
My second question, both candidates have expressed a really good concern about all the activities that they foresee as being during their Premiership within our term in this office. What is their top priority on the whole events that we might see in the next coming months before our term is up? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. I think the immediate priority is to restore confidence of Members in the Cabinet, how we conduct our business, restore confidence of the public and this Legislature and to show that we are ready to continue doing business. The way we do business will be transparent. It will be done in a way that meets the expectations and the standards that everyone expects of their government and that the way we do business, the way we spend money will be done in accordance with a standard that is expected by everybody. That is what we have to do so we can get on with the business of speaking on behalf of people, when we address people, when we talk about devolution, when we talk about looking at tax windows, when we talk to oil companies and mining companies on behalf of our people. Thank you.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. I am of a similar view as well. In my Member's statement in the House a couple of times, and even in my opening address and in the debate that happened the last couple of days on last Friday and Monday, was that there is a lot of activity going on in our communities. We went through a very painful process here that we just concluded and that the public perception is that it is pretty negative towards us here as a government.
People in the communities are saying that life has to go on and that we have to carry on with what we are here to do until it is finished. I am committed to do that, to carry on the work here. I guess putting my name forward is that I am saying that I am here, I am ready to work, let us get on with it. There are a lot of concerns out there that we still have to deal with. There is quite a bit of negative fallout on the part of the government here and people are questioning if we have the ability here collectively to run their affairs in the north. I think that I have faith in the people in the north. I think we are very smart and intelligent people. A lot of us have survived bigger hardships than that in our communities and that life has to go on.
What I am saying is, we have to show to people, the public and people outside the Northwest Territories and Canada that we are capable of managing our own affairs. We can do the job and we can do it in a very transparent and good way. That I hope will develop trust in us as a government by the people in the remaining months that we have here. It will show the public that we are sincere in what we are doing, that we have a job to do and we would like to finish it. That is the top priority that I see right now. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Is there anybody else for questions? I will just read to you, in accordance with the procedures, I would like to advise that I have received notice that the honourable Member for Baffin Central has authorized the honourable Member for Baffin South as proxy. We have two booths here. The Members are now asked to proceed to those booths and cast their votes and then put it in the box right there. Again, just to remind the Members that are out there listening, that it is only after all the votes have been cast that we would proceed with the counting of the ballots. Any of the Members that are out of the chamber, I would request them to come back to vote.
Secret Ballot Election
--Voting by Members
I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted. The bell will ring for five minutes to bring the Members back once the results are determined.
--Break
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I will call the committee back to order. I wish to advise that you have elected the Member for Nahendeh, the Honourable Jim Antoine, as your Premier- elect.
--Applause
This will also be confirmed by motion in the Legislative Assembly tomorrow. I would like to offer Mr. Antoine and Mr. Kakfwi the opportunity to say a few words. Mr. Antoine.
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is, indeed, a great honour by the Members here in the House for this privilege to be Premier. I would like to also thank Steve, I thought he did very good work in his presentations, as well. I certainly would like to tell Steve here that I certainly would like to continue working with him in Cabinet and with all the Members of Cabinet, as well and all the Members of the Legislative Assembly. I will certainly do what I said here in my speech and in all the questions I just want to say that I am here to try to work as best I can with you and to try to finish off our terms, the commitment we have all made to serve the people here in the Northwest Territories and with the work that is ahead of us. We know what we have to do and what has to take place. With that, I would like to thank everybody here. Mahsi.
--Applause
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think there is a need to send a message to the public, to the communities, certainly the Members of the Cabinet and the Legislature, as well as the public, that we will change the way we do business. We will change the way we conduct ourselves, both Jim and I have committed to that. I do not see any particular difference in the views and the positions that we took this morning. I will be supporting Jim in his role. I committed to that last week. I committed that this morning to him and I will do that for the remainder of our term. I have been doing it for a long time. We said this morning, Jim and I have worked together for many, many years and we will continue to do that. I think perhaps, it will give you an example of how things should be done. Thank you very much.
--Applause
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. I think regarding the broadcasting of the leadership, it is now over. We will take a five minute break because I know that the future Minister is anxious to get on with his job, so we will do that and congratulations.
--Break
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
We are in the second phase of our Territorial Leadership Committee meeting. The process for electing the Cabinet Members will be the same except that the time limits for speeches will be ten minutes for each candidate and there will be no question period. I would now ask for people to nominate their candidates for the Cabinet seats. Mr. Picco.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Nominations for Ministerial Position
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to nominate Mr. Seamus Henry, MLA for Yellowknife South, for a position on Cabinet. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Henry, do you accept the nomination?
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Evaloarjuk.
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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to nominate the MLA for Nunakput, Vince Steen. (Translation ends)
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Steen, do you accept the nomination?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Further nominations. Ms. Thompson.
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to nominate Roy Erasmus, the Member for Yellowknife North, for the position on Cabinet.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus, do you accept the nomination?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I do.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.
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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to nominate Jake Ootes, the Member for Yellowknife Centre, on Cabinet.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ootes, do you accept the nomination?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Any further nominations? Mr. Ningark.
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John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to nominate the honourable Mr. Miltenberger, the Member for Thebacha, for the position on Cabinet.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger, do you accept the nomination?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Further nominations. Mr. Rabesca.
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James Rabesca North Slave
Mr. Chairman, I wish to nominate Floyd Roland, Member for Inuvik, for a Cabinet position.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Roland, do you accept the nomination?
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Further nominations. Mr. Picco.
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to nominate Mrs. Jane Groenewegen, the MLA for Hay River.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mrs. Groenewegen, do you accept the nomination?
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Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the nomination. At this time I will decline to allow my name to stand. Thank you.
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
The nomination has been declined. Nominations. Mr. Evaloarjuk.
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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq
(Translation)Since, Mr. Chairman, I will be allowed to vote for one candidate, I would like to close the nominations.(Translation ends)
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
The nomination is now closed. We will proceed to the next step and that is the names of the candidates will be listed in alphabetical order and the candidates have ten minutes to make their speech and ten minutes only. There is no question period. The first candidate is Mr. Erasmus.
Remarks By Ministerial Candidates
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, colleagues, fellow northerners. First of all, I wanted to indicate that I had a hard time deciding if I was going to run. Like our Premier-elect, it was very difficult to concentrate on my own career when we are still dealing with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner's Report and for that reason I did not have an opportunity to speak to all of the Members and I apologize to those whom I missed; however, of course, I would still like your support.
Mr. Chairman, when I was first elected I did not put my name forward for a Cabinet position. I had spoken to former MLAs and Cabinet Ministers and they had advised me that it would be best to wait until I had some experience under my belt. Upon reflection, I believe that it was the right thing to do. I have now been an MLA for three years. I have served on the Social Programs Committee, which I believe has about 65 percent of the GNWT budget. I also chaired the Government Operations Committee. I believe that I am now ready to run for a ministerial position.
Mr. Chairman, like others who spoke earlier today, I have also worked with the chiefs and aboriginal organizations. I represent Detah and N'dilo, small communities. That has prepared me in many ways for thinking about and caring for the smaller communities.
One of my main goals when I came here and which I still have is for us to have less dependency on Ottawa. First of all, politically there is absolutely no reason why we should have to go to Ottawa, for instance, if we want to change our constitution. Yet that is what we have to do. In this last little while we have seen how that can hold us back. In the area of devolution we failed with the Northern Accord and with the BHP situation we are now hearing that over 25 years they will generate $14 billion worth of revenue and half of that will be profits. The federal government will get over $4 billion in royalties and taxes while the GNWT will get $17 million annually. That has to change.
In other areas, of course, as I was saying the diamonds, we also have oil and gas development, other mining, trapping, fishing. The fishing industry on the Great Slave Lake has almost expired. The only reason that it exists is because we subsidize it. We have the best fish in the world, the best in land fish. That has to change. The NWT Development Corporation, we have to make sure that stays in there so we can continue to put small business into the communities. We also have to continue finding other sources of funds for investments for small business like the Aurora Fund that came through the Government Operations Committee.
In the area of Education, Culture and Employment we need to ensure that all students who qualify and want to attend post-secondary institutions are able to do so. We need to ensure that there is more training to take advantage of our natural resources, the jobs in those areas. We also need to raise the education levels of people in the smaller communities. We know that their education levels are atrocious, grade nine and under. We need more adult upgrading. We also need to lower the student/teacher ratio. We have seen that in Canada-wide testing our students are always the lowest. We need to find a way to put more money into education. In the area of Health and Social Services we need to put a recruitment and retention plan into effect. This should help the smaller communities. Even though that is not enough.
Mr. Chairman, last year when I had the flu I complained because it took me four days to get in to see a doctor. In the smaller communities most of them do not even have a doctor. Those types of things have to be looked at.
Our jails are overcrowded. We are expecting the communities to come up with community justice committees and to work on their own community justice issues, but there is no legal training. We need trained courtworkers, JPs, our own northern lawyers and finally our own judges.
In the area of housing, people need housing, Mr. Chairman. If you are not rested you will not go to school or, if you do go to school, you cannot concentrate and you fall asleep. People without a place to sleep, it is very difficult for them to find a job, even if there are jobs out there.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, every day, every week we are hearing about the youth. Our youth are getting into trouble at home, school and with the law. They have nothing to do. They are committing suicide. They are landing in jails. We have to find something, somehow, to help our youth.
Mr. Chairman, in conclusion, when I arrived here I knew I had a good education, that I was a hard worker and a fair person. Now, with the added experience of three years working on two major committees with my initial qualities, I believe that I am ready to handle ministerial duties. I would appreciate your support. Mahsi.
--Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, everything in life needs a balance and this legislature is no different. There is a balance required in this legislature between economic development and social development. I believe I can contribute more to one side than the other. Economic development business is needed to provide the jobs and provide the taxes to ensure that social issues can be dealt with, issues that have come up numerous times in this House and mainly surround the provision of health and education.
Later today, we are going to be electing an individual to Cabinet. This position that will take place in the election, is not until March 31st. This position is until October 4th, when the next election in the new Western Territory will take place. After April 1, 1999, there will be three Ministers, Mr. Antoine, the newly elected Premier, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent and someone from our ranks today. That will leave four people. There will be two additional Members elected prior to April 1st to take office after April 1st. The balance that I talked about is extremely important in Cabinet and it would be extremely important to ensure that there is a balance in Cabinet between people that have an economic development perspective, business sense and those that have the ability to understand and provide what is needed in the areas of the social envelope, health and education. It is extremely important to ensure that there are the resources which come in the form of taxes to provide those health and education requirements of people in the north.
Mr. Chairman, I know the amount of work that is available. I have watched the Members of Cabinet. I have watched their dedication, the amount of hours that they put in. Like myself, from a small business background, I am very aware of how difficult it is to work and how long the hours have to be to be successful. That, for me, is not a question. I have the time, I would dedicate the time to do that. I recognize there would be a phenomenal learning curve, even though Members have had the opportunity to work here on this side of the House. As I say, I know what hard work is, but I also know that when a person enjoys what they do, it is not hard work. I have always been able to find enjoyment in things that I do.
In my business life, I have demonstrated that I can work with aboriginal and non-aboriginal people equally. I have demonstrated that in a number of business ventures. I have the ability to work well with staff and I would like to suggest that I can bring the best out of staff so that each person can feel that they are contributing individually and collectively. I would suggest that I also have the ability to influence other departments.
Mr. Chairman, if an individual can motivate staff, I would suggest that is one way that people can feel part of the whole and staff can feel and hum like one operation. To me, I feel that is an extremely important element that I could bring, the ability to get people humming and moving.
As far as having knowledge of other communities in the Northwest Territories, for a number of years, Mr. Chairman, I had the pleasure of being the Chairman of the Liquor Licensing Board which gave me the opportunity to travel to many communities in the Northwest Territories, meet with the people, listening to concerns that they had on one of the, I would suggest, more difficult substances that is available legally in the Northwest Territories, alcohol. I have had the opportunity to work and deal with people in the communities, so I have that experience that I would bring to the position.
I am a northerner, I was born in northern Ireland, I have lived in the north of Canada for numerous years, I will not say I married here in the north, I will not say the number of years that my wife has lived in the north, but I will say that she was born here, and I have five children, all of whom were born in the Northwest Territories.
I will close now, Mr. Chairman, by thanking Mr. Picco for his nomination of me, and I would ask all Members to consider my comments and I thank them for any support that they will give. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
--Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Mr. Miltenberger.
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to start by thanking my colleague and co-chair of the main Caucus, Mr. Ningark, for nominating me. I would like to also thank the Honourable Jim Antoine and the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi for having the fortitude and courage to put their names forward this morning and to give the people of the Northwest Territories a clear choice for Premier.
--Applause
Mr. Chairman, in selecting a new Minister, I believe there are key issues facing the government that we should focus on. This Assembly and Cabinet, have to address two fundamental issues, the need for stability and the need for leadership from all Cabinet Ministers and the Premier.
As we consider who should be the next Minister, we need to select someone who can provide leadership as part of an effective Cabinet. We also need to select someone who will provide stability in the remaining months of this government, because, Mr. Chairman, after what the Assembly has just been through, stability is an important factor in many ways. Stability so that the Assembly can effectively do its job. Stability for the public service. Stability for the people of the Northwest Territories, so they know the government is focused on working for them in a compassionate and committed way. Stability so our southern partners in government and business are reminded that we are effective and full partners in all our joint endeavours. Mr. Chairman, people, governments, business and capital are very nervous at signs of instability. We must demonstrate clearly that we have dealt with this issue and that we are a responsible and effective government. We need to continue with the efforts to ensure government is accountable, transparent and credible with high standards of integrity and conduct. We need to ensure the programs and services continue for all our residents.
Mr. Chairman, just to make a side note, this being the 50th anniversary of the International Declaration of Human Rights, that we get caught up in the business of the day here, that we have to step back and remember the people that we serve. An issue or fact that we must never forget, the trials and tribulations that they face and that it is our responsibility to help them deal with. We need to follow through and ensure that the lessons we have recently learned will be put into effect through the motion that was passed in this House. In the time remaining, it is time to carry through on issues and initiatives already under way and deal with as many issues on our agenda as possible to get to division on time and on budget. Each of us has many new ideas for the two new territories being created. In 1999 and beyond, we lay out a vision for the western government, a basic blueprint, that includes some of these ideas, if it be the will of the new Legislature.
Mr. Chairman, as much as we want to move on new ideas, we cannot forget the fact of stability and the need to provide stability through division to make sure we maintain the existing level of programs and services and complete as many of the initiatives and issues we now have before us. We have an advantage in choosing a new Minister this time, compared to when we first got here, for the most part, strangers to each other. We now know who we are working with. We have been working together for three years and know a lot about how we do our jobs.
Mr. Chairman, rather than citing my qualifications, I would like to instead provide a possible check list of things to look for in a potential Minister. Do they have the work ethic which will allow them to deal with the volume of work in the Minister's office? Can they bring people together on issues? Have they put forward effective suggestions for dealing with the program and policy issues? Do they have a demonstrated ability to work with all their colleagues in the Assembly? Have they demonstrated leadership characteristics in interaction with our partners outside of government?
Mr. Chairman, we need to have a Cabinet that can quickly work together to deal with the critical issues remaining prior to division. With such a short time left in this Assembly, we should be focusing on stability and leadership and not necessarily on trying to readjust the political balance or trying to set a whole new direction.
Mr. Chairman, over the last three years, I believe I have demonstrated the leadership qualities that would make up a good Minister and I would appreciate the support of all my colleagues when it comes to a vote. Thank you very much.
--Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Our next person is Mr. Ootes. You have the floor.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen that may be in the gallery, people of the Northwest Territories that may be watching and members of the press that are here today. I want to first of all congratulate our Premier-elect, Mr. Antoine. Congratulations, well done. All of us, I am sure, will support you heartily. I want to also give my sincere compliments to Mr. Kakfwi for the initiative to provide an interesting and very competitive race. I would also like to thank Mr. O'Brien for his expression of confidence in me, by putting my name forward as a Member of the Cabinet of the Northwest Territories. People have asked me if I would put my name forward, they were supportive. I have had support from my family. It has been a difficult question, Mr. Chairman, because it does require a tremendous commitment which I think all of us realize. We have been here some time, but I appreciate the support given to me by those who were interested in putting my name forward and encouraging me to run. Whatever happens at the end of the day, I am confident that we will all work together and move forward in this territory.
As we all know, Cabinet is teamwork. Each person must contribute to the ultimate goal of service to the people and the benefit to the people of the Northwest Territories. A Cabinet Minister must also be an individual, an individual who is strong and who can stand on his, or her, own two feet and be independent enough to deal with the many tough issues that Cabinet Ministers have to deal with, the tough decisions.
The Minister's role should not be such that his or her service to the ordinary Members is lost, nor to his or her Cabinet colleagues. All of us, Mr. Chairman, have different skills, gifts and experiences to bring to the table. Many of our skills and gifts are the same, but some of us do have varied skills and they are all to be complimented. Those people that are running today, they are all very capable and very suitable candidates.
I think I have some skills developed over my lifetime that I feel would contribute to the smooth and efficient operation of Cabinet. In my younger life, I was a public servant for this very government. I spent many years here and learned a lot and appreciated what I learned through that. I was able to apply it to many other areas. Following my career as a civil servant, I was a businessman in the publishing business for about 20 years. My business background taught me how to manage money, employees and how to be of service to the public. Almost four years ago, I decided to change my career and enter politics. Let me just say that the combination of having been a public servant, a businessman and now a politician, I think are assets that can contribute very well to this government.
What are the skills of a leader, you might ask, that I consider important? Integrity, honesty, openness, but a leader is also someone who can direct government programs and redirect those programs if they are ineffective. Being a leader, is someone who can stimulate and direct government employees to implement the government's policies, an agenda set by this Legislature. We all know that Cabinet Ministers represent a broader constituency of people all across the Northwest Territories. They must be able to relate to a very wide spectrum of people across the north, but also relate with those on a national stage. They must be strong enough to be recognized, respected and perceptive enough to be approachable.
In the coming years, we will no doubt face many more difficult problems. Some of those problems are on our horizon today. We must address the problem of forced growth in our government. Each year, we are spending more and more money on the social envelope area, but the social lot of our people is not keeping pace. Our suicide rates are amongst the highest in the country and our substance abuse rates are amongst the highest. We have to address this concern. This concern has to be addressed in a very, very serious way.
It is no secret that alcohol, drug-related crimes and resultant social problems cost this government tens of millions of dollars. It is high time we acknowledge that it is our number one problem and we should address it as our number one problem to find solutions to it. We have to address the major concerns of our front line workers, the teachers and nurses and I spoke on that just the other day. One of the most important and effective ways to deal with our problems, both physical and social, is through economic growth and job creation. Job creation and economic activity has to come from somewhere. For me, it comes not just from the development of non-renewable resources sectors such as mining and oil and gas, but also from such industries as fisheries, forestry, harvesting and marketing of country foods, arts and crafts and tourism. The development of our renewable resources sector goes beyond mere economic benefits, but to the heart of most communities. Northern people have always relied on the land and animals for their survival and it continues to play an integral part of our economy today.
The best solution to our social problems is to get people jobs. Jobs for people in all of our communities. No matter what we offer people in the form of income support, education upgrading, social support systems, what people really want at the end of the day, is a job. Real jobs in such areas as the value added industries of our resources such as mining and forestry.
We have to have a Cabinet that addresses the issues that are out there. Issues like government contracting processes. Cabinet has to address the issue of morale in our public service and restore the security of their positions. Our employees need confidence in themselves again. At the same time, public servants have to know that at this time we cannot go into a wholesale expansion program and that in these continuing tough economic times they must, like all of us, continue to be more creative, more effective, more efficient.
In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I do not shy away from a challenge. I do not shy away from the issues. I may not necessarily agree all the time with my colleagues on the approach to problem solving, but providing a different viewpoint is healthy. What is unhealthy is the stifling of viewpoints.
I am committed to be a very effective individual, if I am elected to Cabinet. I offer you my skills and commitment to make a positive contribution to the people of the Northwest Territories because they are the number one priority. I am asking those of you for support for a Cabinet post and I would be personally very honoured if you voted for me. We live in exciting times, Mr. Chairman. They have been exciting times here in the north and I am sure they will continue to be exciting and wonderful times for us all. Thank you.
---Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The next person is Mr. Roland. You have the floor.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, for all northerners these are challenging times as we move to create two new territories. Over the last three years I have had an opportunity to work with every MLA in this House to the benefit of all our residents. I can go into a bit of my past and how I came to arrive here in this Assembly, but I believe the Members here who are going to select a new Cabinet Minister have seen the qualities in people already and, hopefully, that will lead to their decision.
I would be proud to be a member of a team creating a new Western Territory, while at the same time assisting our Nunavut neighbours in creating their own territory. I look forward to working with Cabinet colleagues and ensuring the division process is as seamless as possible.
Over this period of time that I have represented the community of Inuvik in this Assembly, I believe that I have demonstrated that I am a hard worker, that I am a team player, that I have no axes to grind and that my word is good. I feel I have the integrity to carry on with the Cabinet position.
Mr. Chairman, just over three years ago, when we were electing our Cabinet, I chose not to run because at that time I did not feel that I had the needed experience. Instead, I chose to concentrate on what I knew best and that was community issues. I believe I have shown that to be correct over the years. However, Mr. Chairman, after the three years of working in the Assembly as an Ordinary Member and as a Member of the Social Programs Committee, I feel I have acquired the needed experience to help complete the transition to two new territories at a Cabinet level.
As Chairman of Western Coalition, I have always strived to work cooperatively with the GNWT and our Nunavut partners to create a smooth transition to two new territories, while at the same time working to establish an economically viable new Western Territory. In many ways, the Western Coalition provides an example of what can be achieved when political, aboriginal, business and community leaders work together towards the common goal of creating a strong new territory. From my time as Chairman of the Western Coalition, I have gained a good understanding of the challenges of division and how these issues impact on the people we serve.
While division is an important issue, it will come to pass. We must, however, look forward and look to the future and see how we can take advantages of the opportunities that are presented to us. Economic development, Mr. Chairman, especially in the resource sector, must be taken advantage of. If elected to Cabinet, I would work hard to promote economic development in all regions.
As many of you may note, I have not pursued knocking on doors and going the traditional route of seeking your support before we have come into this arena. I have not operated that way in previous ways of doing things and I do not feel that it is time to change my method of doing things. I feel that my experience and those who have worked with me at this time will know that I stand here and you can look on or work together and know if you support me or not.
I think you all know me well and know that I am approachable. I am understanding and hard-working and, if elected to Cabinet, I will work hard to bring stability to government as we enter the final phase of creating two new territories.
While I live in the west and work hard to create a new, viable Western Territory, I also recognize that Nunavut will be our neighbour and, at times, an important ally. I am prepared to work with Nunavut on the future issues of common interest.
Mr. Chairman, we have all been through difficult times. We have all tried to work for our constituencies. The work effort that I put into protecting my constituency I would carry forward to working with Cabinet as a team player in trying to ensure that the people can look forward to a stable and open and honest government. I look forward to your support and I wish all the other Members that have entered into this much success. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The next candidate is Mr. Steen.
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to start by thanking Mr. Evaloarjuk for nominating me for this position in Cabinet. Mr. Chairman, I find the proceedings here a lot different now than they were three years ago when we ran for the same positions. I find myself more knowledgable of issues and what is very important is I find myself very knowledgable of the other Members' abilities. I find that through working with them on committees, I have gained experience and knowledge from them as well as, hopefully, I have passed on to them some experience and knowledge that I have gained in my lifetime. Through that, we have developed amongst ourselves confidence in each other and we are in a better position now to know who should be representing us and the NWT residents on Cabinet. Who we think would be a good candidate and who would fill in the gaps in Cabinet. There is no doubt, Mr. Chairman, at this point in time, that Cabinet has a lot of experienced Members.
I am not suggesting at this point in time that this is not happening because we are not properly represented on Cabinet. It is just obviously the advantage of having representation on Cabinet that is important. In the past, we have had good representation, such as Nellie Cournoyea, from the Beaufort, Richard Nerysoo, and Tom Butters. There are a number of them. We need continued representation such as that in Cabinet.
Mr. Chairman, I have a fair amount, in my past experience, of practical experience to offer Cabinet, and I also have a lot of political experience to offer. I think that almost any portfolio, I could say that I have had some experience in life in dealing with that type of portfolio and the responsibilities of the portfolio. I do not know whether it is important at this point in time that I go into describing them all, but I did three years ago. I did identify to the Members that I have had experience as a hunter and trapper, I have had experience as a businessman, I have had experience in working in the construction and transportation fields. I have also had 13 years as a Justice of the Peace.
I do have experience dealing with the public and I think that over the years I have gained an honest reputation. I hope that the Members here as having worked with me for the past three years have seen that in fact, I am an honest person and a fair person. I am also very practical person. I think that those are maybe the strong points that are needed on Cabinet at this point in time. I am not suggesting that the Members that are there do not have it. But I am suggesting that those might be some strong points to add to Cabinet, to assure the public that there is going to be fairness, integrity and openness in Cabinet. I would assure the Members in this House that I will continue to press towards that. That would be very obvious that we can work very closely together and we can work in a friendly atmosphere rather than an aggressive atmosphere. I would really like to see that. That is what I have to offer, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am up against some good people here and I am sure that they are fair people, so I would offer to vote for one of them if they all will vote for me.
--Laughter
With that, Mr. Chairman, I thank the Members and I will thank you for your support in this. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Also thank you for all the candidates for staying within the time allotted. This is something new. We will now proceed with the voting and I wish all the candidates good luck. Also, just again to remind the Members that the Member for Baffin Central has authorized the honourable Member for Baffin South as proxy.
Again, just to remind the Members that are out of the House, that the voting process has already started and if you are in the Assembly building, could you proceed into the Chamber to cast your ballet. Thank you.
Secret Ballot Election
--Voting by Members I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted and the bells will ring as soon as that is done.
--Break
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. It is my duty to announce that there is a need for a second ballot. The nominees for the second ballot are: Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland and Mr. Steen. Before we proceed to the vote, are there any nominees wishing to withdraw their names? No. The voting will then proceed.
--Voting by Members
I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted and the bells will ring as soon as that is done. Good luck.
--Break
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. It is my duty to announce that two or more nominees have received the fewest amount of votes on the second ballot and according to the agreed upon procedures, all names will remain on the ballot for the next round of voting; that is, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland and Mr. Steen.
--Voting by Members
I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted and the bells will ring as soon as that is done.
--Break
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. It is my duty to announce that there is a need for a fourth ballot. The nominees for the fourth ballot are: Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland and Mr. Steen. The Members can proceed and pick up their ballots.
--Voting by Members
I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted and the bells will ring as soon as that is done.
--Break
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Page 27
The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. There are activities going on in the Great Hall to mark the 50th anniversary of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. There is going to be singing and that going on. I am afraid there is not going to be any of that going on here yet. It is my duty to announce that there is a need for a fifth ballot. The nominees for the fifth ballot are: Mr. Ootes, Mr. Roland and Mr. Steen. The Members can proceed and pick up their ballots.
--Voting by Members
We are still missing one Member. If the Member can come down to cast his vote. We are still missing one Member.
I declare the voting process closed. The ballot box will now be taken to the Clerk's office where the ballots will be counted and the bells will ring as soon as that is done.
--Break
Item 4: Election Of Minister
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
I would like to call the committee back to order. I wish to advise you that you have elected the MLA for Inuvik, Mr. Floyd Roland, as your....
--Applause
...as a Member elected to Cabinet. His appointment will be confirmed by a motion in the House tomorrow. I would like to offer Mr. Roland the opportunity to say a few words before we close for today. Can we have some order in here. I would like to congratulate Mr. Roland and if he would like, he may say a few words before we close the proceedings. Mr. Roland.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, colleagues. I would like to thank all of you for allowing me to represent in Cabinet, for choosing me to be able to work with them and I hope that I can prove myself worthy of your support and move forward on many initiatives that Cabinet has already proceeded with and will continue to work with. Again, I thank you and shortly after this I will be making a phone call home. Thank you once again.
--Applause
Item 5: Closing Remarks By Chairperson
Item 5: Closing Remarks By Chairperson
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The Chair Samuel Gargan
Thank you, and congratulations to both Mr. Antoine and Mr. Roland and for all those who have been nominated into the position, thank you for your participation. Is there any further business here? If there is not, there are the activities going on to mark the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights, if Members wish to listen to that. This Session is over now and the House will reconvene at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. This meeting is adjourned. Good Evening.
--Adjournment
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