Debates of Nov. 26th, 1992

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, due to some immediate activity and my not having time to give notice, I would like to ask permission to make an emergency statement regarding the mediation on the problems at Royal Oak Mines.

Go ahead with your emergency statement, Ms. Cournoyea.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, the government has just received copies of an interim report and recommendations made to the federal Minister of Labour by the two mediators who were appointed recently to try to find a solution to the labour dispute between Royal Oak Mines and the Canadian Association of Smelter and Allied Workers.

The strongly worded report states quite clearly that both parties to the dispute must adjust their negotiation behaviour.

It notes that in order to continue the mediation process:

-the employer must restrain itself from taking bargaining positions which it surely must know would be unacceptable to virtually any organization of workers; and that

-both management and union must agree to a lawful process to settle the outstanding dispute surrounding the dismissal or discipline of union workers rather than making it, to all intents and purposes, a pre-condition to the negotiation of a new collective agreement.

The report also notes that the union's position falls short of comprising a realistically concrete proposal sufficient to generate real momentum at the bargaining table.

The report adds that the public fallout from this labour dispute has been enormous and unprecedented in the experience of the two senior mediators. The report states that both sides of the dispute owe it to the surrounding community to take a serious and tangible step toward the resolution of this dispute.

Mr. Speaker, the government is encouraged by this interim report and along with the citizens of Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories, is anxious to hear the reaction of Royal Oak Mines and the Canadian Association of Smelter and Allied Workers.

I will be making copies of the report available to Members of the Legislative Assembly this afternoon. Thank you.

---Applause

Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today regarding the point of privilege raised on Tuesday, November 24, 1992 by the honourable Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mrs. Marie-Jewell was forced to raise a point of privilege to refute serious and misguided allegations of political interference and influence in the News/North. As an elected aboriginal person from a small community, Mrs. Marie-Jewell has to fend off these serious and damaging allegations in order to perform her duty as an elected Member from that constituency.

Mr. Speaker, this is an unfortunate incident which raises an even larger issue for many Members of this Legislative Assembly. How can they address constituency issues that arise in our small and closely related communities? Mr. Speaker, the kinship patterns of aboriginal people are quite different from those of Euro-Canadians, and that may cause some of the problem.

To give you some background about how I am connected to my region, I will provide you with some examples. My aunt is the executive director of the Baffin Regional Council. My brother is the president of Pangnirtung Fisheries. My cousin is the Mayor of Pangnirtung. My cousin's husband is the Mayor of Clyde River. I do have some relatives and friends within T.F.N. Suffice it to say, Mr. Speaker, that I have relatives or close friends serving on virtually every board, council or agency and participating in every sector of the economy in the Baffin region.

Mr. Speaker, if I cannot raise issues relating to my constituency where it might be perceived on the surface that a conflict of interest exists because my family or friends are directly or indirectly involved, then I could not adequately perform my duties in this House.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please proceed, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and colleagues. That is both the benefit and disadvantage of serving a riding where you were born and raised. You either know or are related to almost everyone in the community. Mr. Speaker, this has never stopped me from performing my duties in the best interests of my constituents no matter what side of the issue my relatives may be on.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say the way in which I perceive the logic of the News/North editors, is that the only people who could serve effectively in most ridings across the Northwest Territories are non-aboriginal people who either were born and raised or lived in the north for only a short period of time.

Mr. Speaker, on that note I will bet you that this statement will not get on the News/North. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Dent.

Item 3, Members' Statements, Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the doom session of this House I wish to speak about the decentralization initiatives of this government. My concern at the time was the seemingly unequal distribution of our government program to the regions of this territory, and this remains my concern today. As all members are aware, the majority of benefits from this decentralization initiative will go to the Keewatin, Fort Smith and Inuvik regions. Once again, those in most need, the people of the Kitikmeot have been ignored. It seems that whenever this government proposes a large initiative such as the decentralization initiative, the Kitikmeot does not benefit, and there is always some bureaucratic reason for this omission. During this particular exercise the government stated that there exciting mining activities are taking place in the Coronation Gulf area and that economic development will naturally flow from these developments. I wonder if the Minister of Finance can tell me and the people of my region when these benefits will begin to accrue in the region? When can they expect to see training programs and more importantly jobs from these developments? Will it be sometime in 1993 or 94 or sometime in the next century? I do not suppose that the Minister can give me a reasonable answer to this question, because he simply does not know. I can only assume that people in my region will be doomed to a future of poverty and reliance on the social welfare system until these mining developments take place, if ever. I do not wish to offend the Members of this House. However, I ask all Members to consider the purpose of decentralization. Is it to provide better programs and services or are we simply moving parts of departments to the regions? I hope it will be the former rather than the latter.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, honourable colleges. I would ask for the support of this House that we agree on basic principles of decentralization and not simply base the concept of decentralization on political agreements or arrangements. Mr. Speaker, if I sound frustrated with this process it is because I am. This government cannot continue to ignore its responsibility to develop the economy of the Kitikmeot region. Economic development issues of this government have to take into account all regions of the territories, not simply the most aggressive. Mr. Speaker, if this government is truly committed to developing the economy of the Kitikmeot region and feels the exploration for minerals in this region will contribute greatly to this development, then it would seem only natural that the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources be considered a prime candidate for decentralization to Cambridge Bay, the regional centre for Kitikmeot. I would expect that this government would give this request due consideration, as it has for other regions of the

territories such as the Keewatin, Fort Smith and Inuvik regions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize and to welcome Mr. Jack Kupeuna, the vice-president of T.F.N. Item 3, Members' Statements, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the responses given by the Minister of Health to my questions in the House yesterday. In my questioning I was trying to get the Minister to at least think about the consequences of the fact that Dr. Covert remains the president of the Board of Inquiry, which is appointed under the Medical Profession Act to inquire into the competence and ability of physicians while he faces a malpractice suit. I realise that Dr. Covert has stepped aside from one particular inquiry, but he apparently has not resigned from the board itself. Yesterday in response to my concerns about this fact, the Minister says, and I am quoting from the unedited transcript, "that if the law is being met, and if the Members of this House, of this board or any other quasi-judicial board meet the requirements of the law, Mr. Speaker, we need not go any further and question their qualifications or their standing. That would be a task on the integrity and independence of that board." Mr. Speaker, I was dismayed, appalled and shocked at what I heard, but not really surprised. It confirmed that the Minister has not fully considered his responsibilities as the Minister of Health, and it reaffirms to me the duty of ordinary Members to ensure that Ministers do consider their responsibilities. This government Mr. Speaker, was sent a clear message by the Northwest Territories Court of Appeal about appointments to quasi-judicial boards in the case of Doyle versus the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, this case focused on the charter, which I recognize, but the entire process for handling complaints against judges could have been invalidated if the people who the Minister of Justice was allowed to appoint under legislation, had been members of the judicial council. Even now if the Minister of Justice...

Mrs. Marie-Jewell your allotted time has lapsed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to continue.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, and thank you, my honourable colleagues. Even now if the Minister of Justice appoints as many people as that act allows the appointment will be invalid because of the fourth ruling. If he appoints the wrong people, for example senior public servants like deputy ministers, the court has told us the appointment may be declared invalid. In this case my concern is not the charter, but the appointment of this individual who faces a malpractice suit. This does not allow the public to have confidence in a process which must follow the rules of natural justice. I am not suggesting that the Ministry of Health cannot make appointments to the board of inquiries under the Medical Professions Act or that this legislation is flawed. I know that different issues are involved because of the Medical Profession Act inquiry, because this is a civil process and not a criminal one. I am trying to demonstrate to the Minister something that he should already know. There is more to consider in an appointment to a quasi-judicial board or in allowing appointments to stand than what any act stipulates. The matters which may be investigated under the Medical Profession Act are serious ones. The Minister must consider the rules of natural justice and whether the membership of the board might cause the appearance of bias when a hearing is held. I do not definitely that this would happen. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, no one has raised it in the court yet, but it is an issue that the Minister should consider. I would urge the Minister to take immediate steps to correct the damages to allow for natural justice to be done. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In caucus last week, there was some debate on whether there should be a provision in the N.W.T. Act for the Assembly to dissolve itself and proceed to the electorate for a renewed mandate at a time of its own choosing. I believed that debate should take place in public and I agreed to bring forward a motion.

At present, we have a fixed term of four years. If we wish to dissolve ourselves at any time before that, we must ask the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development for permission to do it. I think this is completely unacceptable. In fact, the current act locks into a fall election which is the worst possible time to begin a new Assembly. It makes it impossible to get a capital budget prepared for a November sitting to deal with it as we are doing now. It makes it equally impossible to prepare an O & M budget for the winter session.

The Constitution of this country allows every legislature a term of five years. Each legislature has the power to dissolve itself and go to the public whenever it feels it is appropriate to do so.

As Mr. Todd has indicated, we have had a rough year. It took a full year for the government to put a budget together, since the previous government decided to let the new government set its own agenda. Yesterday, I gave notice of a motion to request the Premier to ask the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development to change the N.W.T. Act Giving the Assembly the powers it is asking for is a step in the direction of further constitutional development, Mr. Speaker.

The next Assembly which, ominously, will be the 13th Assembly, Mr. Speaker, should not be tied down to a fixed election date established under a federal act. I urge the Members to participate in the public debate on this motion tomorrow.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the absence of the Minister Responsible for Renewable Resources, my question will be directed to Premier of this government. I just had a telephone conversation with the municipal staff of Gjoa Haven, and the Hamlet of Gjoa Haven is requesting that this government, through the Department of Renewable Resources, come up with a training initiative in the area of Renewable Resource officer.

The advantage of this position would be, Mr. Speaker, that a person who is trained from a local community will understand and speak the local language. Secondly, the person who is from the community knows the area and the environment and the customs of the community.

My question, Mr. Speaker, is would the Minister work together with the Hamlet of Gjoa Haven and come up with a plan to train a person to take over the position of Renewable Resource officer within the community of Gjoa Haven? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that the training programs that have been offered by Arctic College for Renewable Resources officers have been very successful and many of the northern residents and aboriginal residents have been trained, so I will instruct the Minister Responsible for Renewable Resources work with the Hamlet of Gjoa Haven to see if a person can be identified to take the necessary training. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary. The request is urgent. Would the Premier instruct the Minister Responsible for Renewable Resources to do this as soon as possible, perhaps within three months? Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I will inform the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources that the honourable Member is stressing that this is of an urgent nature and that, as soon as possible, we should move toward identifying a person and try to apply that individual to a training program. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Ms. Mike.

Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister Responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. Like my honourable colleague from Keewatin Central, I am very concerned about the administrative increase and the addition of new PYs to the existing Workers' Compensation Board empire which the Minister just announced. The Minister has spoken about the new enhanced Safety Audit Program which emphasizes compliance. What will these new PYs do if they find unsafe working conditions, what authority will they have?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, an increase in the W.C.B. budget and staff is forecast for the coming year but I would, respectfully, disagree with the Member's assertion that there is an empire. In fact, Mr. Speaker, over the last five or six years, the case load of the W.C.B. has grown substantially and the number of staff has remained static. It is not a question of the board's staff having grown uncontrollably in the past number of years.

To answer the Member's question, Mr. Speaker, the Safety Enhancement Program is not an enforcement tool but it is designed to be a method of building a partnership between the worker, the employer and the W.C.B. If there are deficiencies in the safety program in a particular workplace, then the program of the W.C.B. is designed to help an employer improve his safety program through courses in safety and education. This year, so far, 48 employers have received that assistance and there is also a program in high schools to encourage young people to be aware of safety before they enter the workplace.

Mr. Speaker, the W.C.B. staff, and I must emphasize that they will be working in close harmony with the Department of Safety and Public Services, will help employers to make their workplaces more safe. That should lead to reduced accidents, which should lead to reduced claims costs, which should lead to reduced rates, we hope. Thank you.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind visitors to the Legislative Assembly that the rules require that anyone who wants to take photographs in the Legislative Assembly seek permission from the Speaker's office. Item 5, Oral Questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. During the May 13 public hearings which the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions held on W.C.B., the representative from the Federation of Labour, Mr. Jim Evoy, made the following comments, "please look to British Columbia to the Penalty Assessment Program they have there. That just takes an enforcement arm of the inspectorate and puts it with the W.C.B." "It simply works like that. The penalty assessment officer or safety officer sees an infraction and he immediately writes it up and writes up a penalty assessment.

Instead of a fine in court, it is an additional assessment against the employer, all the names of the employers are published, they do have the right to appeal, it works and it is quick." Can the Minister indicate to the House whether the extra dollars and additional PYs that the Workers' Compensation Board is trying to build into its budget, are actually going to be used to experiment with Mr. Evoy's pet project?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, no they will not. Mr. Speaker, the penalty assessment and corresponding merit rebate programs, which are allowed in the present Workers' Compensation Act, which I as Minister have encouraged the board to implement, and which have been recommended by other reviews of the W.C.B., are unfortunately not yet in place. Today, I cannot tell the honourable Member that the penalty assessment scheme described before the A.B.C. Committee will be put in place for the coming year. I hope that situation will change, Mr. Speaker, but as of today such a scheme has not been approved by the Workers' Compensation Board. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recognizing that employer assessment rates are shooting up more quickly and higher than Dr. Bondar's spaceship and recognizing that there are already safety awareness and enforcement programs within the Department of Safety and Public Services, how can the Minister possibly support the concept of using board money to implement experimental programs when the details are fuzzy and the mandate is uncertain?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Safety and Public Services did once deliver a safety awareness and education program. Mr. Speaker, that program was funded by a grant from the Workers' Compensation Board. Two years ago, the Workers' Compensation Board in its wisdom decided no longer to provide those funds to the Department of Safety and Public Services to deliver that important safety education and awareness program. Mr. Speaker, if the responsibility were to be assigned to the Department of Safety and Public Services, it would at the moment not have budgeted nor have the funds to deliver that program alongside its other statutory obligations of inspection and enforcement. Mr. Speaker, the Member's question is a good one but I would have to say that if the responsibility was to be given now to the Department of Safety and Public Services, then this government and probably this Legislature would have to identify new money, which is not now in place, for the cost of delivering that program. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Final supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Clearly if this honourable Member is performing his job as the Minister, he will do something more than just stand around watching this take place. Both the standing committee's report and the report of the 1989 review committee recommended that the Minister should take a more direct role in the monitoring and management of the board. Will the Minister request the Chairperson of the W.C.B. to convene an emergency meeting of the board so that he can request the board to reject the concept of increasing PYs and administrative funding related to workplace audits?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, with the greatest of respect for the honourable Member, I have not just been standing around. I may not have accomplished a great deal but I have been working hard on W.C.B. issues, almost on a daily basis. The problems which I inherited, Mr. Speaker, were significant. I have not been standing around. Yes, I was involved with the previous government, Mr. Speaker, and so were others in this House. Mr. Speaker, ...

Order please, the Minister has the floor.

Mr. Speaker, to answer the Member's specific questions, I have not yet received the budget for the W.C.B. for the coming fiscal year. I have received some reports about what is in that budget and it includes significant cost cutting measures. It would be premature for me to request the Chair to call an emergency meeting to discuss a budget which I have not yet received or reviewed. However, Mr. Speaker, as soon as I get the budget, if I find that there are significant excesses in the budget, as the Member suggests, I will certainly not hesitate to do as she recommends. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. You have had your final supplementary, Ms. Mike. New question, Mr. Todd.

My question is for the Minister responsible for the W.C.B. I think he said in his response to my honourable colleague from Baffin Centre that in the past, two years ago, dollars were transferred from the W.C.B. to the Department of Safety to provide safety education. How many dollars in the past were provided to the Department of Safety, where it rightly belongs, for safety education?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I believe it was in the vicinity of $200,000. I am not sure of the exact figure but it was in that range. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

If that is the case, it was $200,000 for the record. What is the anticipated cost now for the Workers' Compensation Board to do this same task?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure of the budgeted amount. There are, as I understand, two person years involved and a budget for travel and materials. I will have to take the question as notice as to the exact amount. Thank you.

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, my question will be for the Minister responsible for the W.C.B. I have a copy of the Main Estimates for O & M for the fiscal year 1991-92, which was last year's O & M, not the O & M from two years ago. Within this budget this Assembly approved $500,000 from the Workers' Compensation Board to the Department of Safety and Public Services to do safety education. How can the Minister indicate to this House that it was over two years ago when he should know that it was only last year?

Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I once again stand corrected by the honourable Member for Thebacha. It was obviously last year and not two years ago. It seemed like over a year that I have been in this job, Mr. Speaker, perhaps that will account for my error. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance as the leading Minister in the decentralization initiative announced earlier this year by this government. As I stated in my Member's Statement today, the Kitikmeot region has once again been ignored during decentralization initiatives of this government. The reason, of course, is the exciting mining developments in the region. I wonder if the Minister can tell me when the people in my region can expect to benefit from these exciting developments? Within the next year, two years or ten years?

A multiple choice question, Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are anticipating that Minova will make some announcement this afternoon to update us on the Coronation Gulf mineral project. I will take the question as notice and get back to the House as soon as we hear from the mining company. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Has the Minister received a comprehensive plan for the new Workplace Audit Program that W.C.B. is attempting to develop so he can evaluate whether this new empire actually duplicates mandates within his department?

Mr. Patterson. Sorry, Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister explain to the House why it is necessary for the Workers' Compensation Board to carry out workplace safety education awareness and compliance programs when his department is already supposed to be carrying out these responsibilities? Are his officials not doing their job?

Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. As I pointed out in my question to the Minister responsible for Workers' Compensation Board, the Federal of Labour representative, Mr. Jim Evoy, argued that this government should take an enforcement arm of the inspectorate and put it with the W.C.B. Is the Minister aware of any evidence from other jurisdictions which would suggest it is more effective to have safety awareness, education and enforcement carried out by the Workers' Compensation Board rather than by the appropriate government department?

Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to try to make my question a little clearer. My question was, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Do you know of any other jurisdiction which would carry out the responsibilities of safety awareness, education and enforcement by Workers' Compensation, within that province? Let us say one province.

Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, just for clarification I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Do you know if there are any jurisdictions in Canada that have the responsibility of safety awareness and education enforcement carried out by Workers' Compensation Board? That was the question my honourable colleague asked.

Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Health. We are not trying to bother the Keewatin health board, but my question concerns the Sanikiluaq patients who, when they have to go away for medical reasons, have to travel to Churchill. If there was to be a health facility in Rankin Inlet would the Minister of Health be working with the health committee in Sanikiluaq with regard to what procedures the Sanikiluaq patients would have to use in order to travel to the health facility. The Sanikiluaq people are concerned as to where they would be sent if a person was to be sent to a health facility. From what I was told they would prefer to go to Churchill, Manitoba. I would like to get an answer from the Minister of Health. Thank you.

Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot give the Member a clear answer about what is going to happen if there is a new hospital built in Rankin Inlet. However, Mr. Speaker, I can assure the honourable Member that the people of Sanikiluaq will be fully involved in planning the new health services now being studied for the Keewatin region. The planning process has started and it will involve community consultations. So if his constituents in Sanikiluaq have strong views and preferences I would encourage them to get involved in the planning process to make their views known. Those views will then be taken into account, I am sure, in developing the health facilities plan for the Keewatin region. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister of Health be able to work with me and could both of us work with the Sanikiluaq health committee. Could he tell me in front of the Members of the Legislative Assembly if he could work with me and travel to Sanikiluaq?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, the Health Facilities Plan is being undertaken by the Keewatin Regional Health Board which, of course, includes a representative from Sanikiluaq. Mr. Speaker, if the Member is asking me to travel

to Sanikiluaq to talk about future health facilities and services in the Keewatin Region, it would not be proper for me to do so without involving the Keewatin Regional Health Board because they are the leading agency in steering this plan alongside our government and my Department of Health.

I would have to say that if such a visit were made, it should be in conjunction with the Keewatin Health Board and, perhaps, in conjunction with their planning process. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would be open to arranging such a visit with the Member when our schedules permit.

Thank you. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Mr. Speaker, in the 1991 O & M Main Estimates, the Department of Safety and Public Services received $500,000 to do safety education and with this money they were able to utilize three person years for this program. Since the Department of Safety and Public Services does not receive these funds from the Workers' Compensation Board for their Safety Program, I would like to ask the Minister whether or not these three PYs are still in existence. Thank you.

Mr. Whitford.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is, once again, to the Minister for Workers' Compensation. My honourable colleague for Baffin Central has raised a number of excellent points about the uncertainty which surrounds the W.C.B.'s apparent decision to embark on a growth phase of PYs and additional O & M expenditures. It is increasing, at the same time, the employer's assessments by an average of 12 per cent. Will the Minister tell this House whether he will take responsibility now for ensuring that the board does not proceed with any increases in its administrative budget and its PYs during the upcoming year?

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I have said already today, I have yet to see the budget. I do not know what is in budget and I do not know what justification there might be for whatever increases are in the budget. I can assure the honourable Member that I am as inclined to restrain the costs of the board as anybody else and that is why I said in this House, perhaps we had all better reconsider the A.B.C. Committee's recommendation to boost the board to nine members because that will cost a quarter of a million dollars more per year than what the board is already spending to operate.

Obviously, it is my responsibility to scrutinize every expenditure that is planned by the Workers' Compensation Board. However, not having seen the budget, Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for me to give a commitment in the affirmative to the Member's question today that I will ensure that there are no increases. I do not have the basis to make that kind of a judgement but what I will do, Mr. Speaker, is scrutinize the budget. I will table it in this Legislature. I can assure the honourable Member, if there is any fat remaining in that budget, I will work with the board to see that it is eliminated. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Rights and Constitutional Development what progress he is making with the Community Transfer Program. We were told about a year ago that this was going to be the thrust of this government, to give people control over programs. So could he tell us what he has done to achieve this?

Mr. Minister.

If I could remind Members asking questions, the question might be a long and detailed response and, perhaps, it would be better as a written question. For Ministers, though it is sometimes difficult to answer a complicated question briefly, if the Minister's could try their very best to keep their response as brief as possible. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought I had asked a question as to what had been accomplished on community transfers. My next question to the same Minister, Mr. Speaker, is when his staff went to communities to discuss community transfers, I would like to have some idea as to what the purpose was. Was it to get information to develop this big plan which we are apparently going to see tomorrow, was it to find out what the community wanted or was it to give the community the idea of what the possibilities were of what could be transferred? It is very unclear to me as to exactly what has been accomplished in this year that we have been waiting.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary Mr. Lewis.

Since the Government Leader indicated that she wants to get down to business, in fact that is the opening statement that she made in this session, I would like to ask the Minister, since he now has a very clear picture and has an implementation plan, how is he going to decide where to start? Is it the first at the table, the first into the gate, how is he going to decide where to begin?

Mr. Kakfwi.

This is your final supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

I would like to ask the Minister to consider this very simple idea, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister consider moving on the things which are easy to do, so that you can show some progress?