Thank you. Good afternoon. Prior to going to Ministers' statements, I would like to welcome Mayor Percy Kabloona from Whale Cove, who is in the gallery. I would also like to welcome Mr. James Eetoolook, vice-president of NTI, who is in the gallery. Welcome to our House.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to provide the House with a progress report on a significant initiative that is under way in the Department of Safety and Public Services. Honourable Members will be aware that over the past several months, this government has undertaken a comprehensive review of the liquor control legislation and practices in the Northwest Territories. Our goal has been to examine all aspects of the way liquor is regulated, eventually leading to the development of a new Liquor Act.

This review is timely. Specific sections of our current legislation have been amended many times, but the fundamental model for our liquor control system has not been examined in a comprehensive fashion since 1969. Our approach to liquor regulation has not kept pace with many changes that residents of the Northwest Territories have observed over the past 25 years.

Today, our northern communities are besieged with problems arising from the unlawful sale of alcohol, and we repeatedly hear concerns about liquor consumption by young people. Problems have emerged over and over with the enforcement of provisions aimed to establish standards for the licensing and operation of liquor establishments. Regional organizations and local governments are seeking a broader avenue for community-based leadership in addressing regulatory issues that affect people on a daily basis.

Unquestionably, Madam Speaker, it is now time to take a fresh look at the way the sale, distribution, possession and consumption of liquor are regulated in the Northwest Territories. For this purpose, the liquor law review was initiated nine months ago. Our objective has been to work toward the development of a new liquor control framework that is effective, balanced and fully representative of community priorities.

From the outset of the project, it was realized that the solutions to liquor control problems would be found not in departmental offices and boardrooms, but through an open, active discussion with communities.

In June 1994, I announced a major public consultation strategy aimed at identifying northerners' concerns and asking for their suggestions about how our liquor control system can be made better.

Several strategies were employed for advising Northwest Territories residents about the review and for seeking their comments. Correspondence and updates have been distributed throughout the project to licence holders, local governments, aboriginal organizations, social agencies, women's and youth advocacy groups and professional associations. Many of these have responded with written briefs or resolutions that recommended improvements to our liquor legislation.

As well, an information flyer outlining key issues and encouraging public participation was sent to Northwest Territories households in June. An enclosed questionnaire was provided in all official languages so that readers could return their comments or suggestions. To date, over 400 responses have been received coming from communities in all regions of the Northwest Territories.

Project personnel have also travelled to several communities to hear residents' views first-hand, but the planning for community consultations has not been driven from Yellowknife. In each case, local authorities, chambers of commerce or social agencies were informed about the initiative and encouraged to tell our departmental staff how they could fit into the consultation format that best suited community needs.

Accordingly, discussion strategies have varied from one community to another. In Hay River, Pangnirtung and Fort Liard, for instance, the project coordinator met with interagency committees and spoke individually with community leaders. In Broughton Island and Igloolik, on the other hand, formal meetings with the hamlet councillors and members of the alcohol education committees were augmented with phone-in shows on the local radio. In Tuktoyaktuk, Yellowknife and Iqaluit, Fort Smith and other locations, public meetings were arranged by the community leadership or local agencies. In other communities like Fort McPherson, Chesterfield Inlet and Cambridge Bay, emphasis was placed on meeting individually with elders and other residents in their homes or offices.

Project staff were privileged to attend discussions on the liquor law review at last summer's Denendeh national assembly in Lutsel K'e, and at the Deh Cho youth spiritual gathering in Wrigley. Meetings were also held with boards of directors for the Northwest Territories Association of Municipalities and for the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce. Input has been received from the Northwest Territories Status of Women Council, the Dene Cultural Institute and the Native Women's Association. Discussions have been held with representatives of other aboriginal organizations all across the Northwest Territories.

The response has been encouraging. Participants have been taking advantage of the opportunity to share their views on our current approach to liquor control, and to suggest better ways for carrying out government regulatory responsibilities.

Madam Speaker, the suggestions received during our current consultations will be summarized in a legislative action paper that I intend to table in November during the current sitting of this House. This document will outline principles that will be used to form the basis of a new Liquor Act.

Honourable Members will have an opportunity to review the legislative action paper in detail, perhaps by referring it to the standing committee for consideration, and to provide the government with recommendations on which principles should be incorporated in legislation. With the feedback received following this Assembly's review of the legislative action paper, Safety and Public Services will then work closely with the Department of Justice to draft new legislation.

I anticipate that a bill containing the new Liquor Act will be available for introduction to the 13th Legislative Assembly as soon as possible, following the fall 1995 territorial election. Madam Speaker, this entire process has been designed to maximize public participation in the development of our new liquor laws. Members of the public have an opportunity to share their ideas now during the preparation of the legislative action paper. They will be able to comment when the Legislative Assembly and its committees are reviewing principles outlined in the paper. And, they will have an opportunity to say what they think when the bill establishing a new Liquor Act is brought forward after the election.

It should be emphasized, Madam Speaker, that consultations initiated over the course of the past summer will continue during the later stages of this process. The legislative action paper, when it is tabled next month, will not dictate solutions but rather summarize the innovative suggestions that northerners have shared with the liquor law review. Madam Speaker, these suggestions have ranged from raising the drinking age to developing new systems and standards for issuing liquor licenses.

People have called for tougher penalties to halt the bootlegging problems that plague our communities. Frequently, too, we have heard that the new liquor legislation should expand local options to empower communities to establish their own systems of liquor control. These ideas, and many others, are now being carefully studied and prepared for inclusion in the legislative action paper. I am looking forward, Madam Speaker, to the opportunity for further discussion and input from all honourable Members when the document is tabled later in this session. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, not quite two months ago, the Northwest Territories had the honour of hosting a visit by the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. I, myself, was very proud to have been able to experience such an event. I am also very proud, Madam Speaker, of the northerners who also played a role in the northern visit. I am speaking of the 87 members of the Arctic Rangers from 16 communities who participated during the Queen's visit.

As Members are aware, the Arctic Rangers have a rich tradition of service in the north and I am pleased to see that this tradition, the integrity and the dedication of these individuals have been recognized.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, I wish I had time to name them all, but I will mention the communities that were represented. They included Aklavik, Baker Lake, Cambridge Bay, Coppermine, Fort Smith, Fort Simpson, Fort McPherson, Gjoa Haven, Holman Island, Inuvik, Lac La Martre, Paulatuk, Pelly Bay -- my home community -- Rae Edzo, Repulse Bay, and Taloyoak. The rangers are a positive influence in our communities and excellent role models for our citizens.

Madam Speaker, I am honoured to be able to stand today and recognize them and thank them for being such excellent ambassadors during such an important occasion. If I may, I would like the Members to join me in offering the Arctic Rangers our most sincere congratulations on their participation in the royal visit and on their enduring spirit, courage and commitment to ensuring safety and well-being of northerners. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak about focusing on social issues, as was recommended in the recently-tabled Finance committee report, Investing in our Future. Government was asked to assess its priorities and refocus its efforts on social issues.

This does not mean the government should abandon economic development. What it does mean is we need to build a foundation of healthy, well-educated people and we need to concentrate on this foundation. Madam Speaker, the government can invest money in economic opportunities in a community. But, if some people in the community cannot or will not take advantage of these opportunities, either because of social problems or lack of training or education, then money spent on economic development is not a good investment.

On the other hand, if we invest in our people, then we will be in a position to gain more benefits from economic opportunities that are developed. We must invest in our future by investing in our people. These are long-term investments and the expected returns are also long-term. Benefits should be forthcoming well into the future. In other words, the government should continue with economic development initiatives while, at the same time, ensuring that we are well-equipped to maximize the returns on investments.

Would focusing on social issues be too costly? Can the government afford to develop a social action plan, given the uncertainty of federal funding and increasing demands for government services? These are all legitimate questions to ask. However, I believe that a fundamental shift in emphasis is the way the government can afford to proceed. It is the way to move towards division. The only way we can build a strong foundation for the creation and survival of two new territories.

Madam Speaker, I know we may not get more money from the federal government. Therefore, we will be required to make very wise investments with the scarce resources available. The wisest investments are those focused on our citizens. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak about an issue of great concern to the residents of Inuvik. The issue is that the Northwest Territories Power Corporation has applied to the Public Utilities Board for a general rate application proposing new power rate structures. Generally, the new proposed rate structure is based on the Power Corporation covering the actual cost of service and to create new rate zones.

Madam Speaker, this means that over the next two to four years, our rates in Inuvik will increase from the current rate of 26.98 cents per kilowatt hour up to 38.43 cents per kilowatt hour, an increase of 42 per cent. This is intolerable to residents of Inuvik, who are already paying a high cost for

power, as compared to the residents in the other larger centres of the Northwest Territories.

One of the principles in proposing the new rate structures is fairness and equity. If that is so, then I contest that this principle is not being applied in Inuvik's case.

Madam Speaker, I have always stated and emphasized in this House that Inuvik has many unique and different features as compared to most other communities. For example, in Inuvik, the majority of the power ratepayers are now private or commercial users. The Government of the Northwest Territories has nearly completed the privatization of their staff housing and the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation has had a big push on for home ownership. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Koe.

Also in conjunction with the privatization initiative, recently the Government of the Northwest Territories employees are now having to pay their own power and water bills. Now all of a sudden, we want to hit them with another 42 per cent increase. The impact on the economy of Inuvik, as poor as it is now, will be further impacted. These new rates for commercial users, will have to be passed on to their customers; a double whammy for the residents of Inuvik.

Madam Speaker, I ask that Members of this House and especially the Minister of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation to seriously consider the impacts on Inuvik's residents and the residents of other communities in the proposed zone III if these rate and zone structures are approved. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statement. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I've tried to be upbeat and positive after slamming the Minister of Housing for his extravagant advertising expenditures last week. But I regret to say today, on a less than happy note, that my constituents and I are unfortunately becoming increasingly frustrated with the Department of Public Works and Services. We were told by the Minister of this department, its "Teflon" Minister, that DPW was reorganized, that project management would be decentralized to the regions, and that this would lead to greater efficiency and effectiveness and greater accountability to clients. It sounded wonderful. However, it doesn't seem to be working in my constituency.

Let me cite some examples. Arctic College requested installation of windows which open in the married students' residence in Iqaluit at a projected cost of $21,000. I'm told that this major project had to be handled by a senior project officer from Yellowknife who flew to Iqaluit no less than three times, at God only knows what expense, to work on this project. I guess he must have spent almost as much money on travel as the project cost.

Renovations to the carpentry trade shop. renovations in washrooms, replacement of carpeting in the single students' residence, Nunatta Campus, a 30-year old building; these projects, budgeted at a total of $93,000, had to be carried over from the last fiscal year, 1993-94. Nothing at all was done last year.

The carpeting of the single students' residence building...

I'm afraid, Madam Speaker, I'm going to be running out of time...

---Laughter

---Laughter

I would humbly request consent to...

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you. I guess the Honourable Minister likes to suffer, Madam Speaker, because it gets worse.

As far as the carpeting of the single students' residence building, everyone was looking forward to this work being done this summer. In fact, the entire building was shut down in August, precisely so that this kind of work could be done. However, I was shocked and dismayed when I toured the residence with the Minister of Education in September, to find that the carpet replacement had not been done, and that carpet is in pathetic condition. I then raised the issue with Public Works in Iqaluit. I now understand that the tender was issued later in September for an October 3rd closing. However, the students are back. The last sealift ship has come and gone. I don't know whether carpet is available locally. The funds for that project, Madam Speaker, were in the control of the region since May of 1994.

Renovations to the carpentry workshop; after getting a typically inflated $23,000 estimate to box in a dust extraction unit, the college persuaded the project officer to accept a simpler approach. The project officer, it was agreed, would buy acoustic tiles and carpentry students would make the box. To date, no tiles have been bought. The students are back; no action.

Painting of the cafeteria and washroom renovations; money in hand since May of 1994. No tender. No action. If that job is done this year -- and they couldn't get around to it last year, but if it's done this year -- the cafeteria will stink of paint while students are trying to eat. And washroom renovations will be going on while students will be trying to use the washrooms.

What is wrong here, Madam Speaker? Why an initial one-year delay on what is apparently a simple project to upgrade a 30-year-old building for college students? Why no work done during the summer months when minimal disruption of staff and students would occur? Why does the senior project officer have to come over on a small job? Is this to collect Aeroplan points?

These are only a few small stories. Often, prolonged in action from DPW means that some maintenance or repairs never get done. They simply disappear in DPW's bureaucratic maze. The process of submitting work orders is heavily structured, inflexible and unable to respond to individual projects. Clients' input often seems to take a back seat to Public Works technical and bureaucratic priorities.

When I was in the Cabinet I pushed for DPW to continue to provide services to Education and Health at the time of creation of boards of education, Arctic College and health boards. I thought it would lead to efficiencies and economies of scale. In my region it's not working. It is now becoming increasingly clear to me that if the college, for example, could tender these small jobs themselves to the private sector, it would cost far less and be far more efficient. Something must be done, Madam Speaker. I'll be pursuing these issues further with the Minister of Public Works and Services. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, today I want to talk about the review of the Liquor Act. First of all, I would like to congratulate the former Minister for undertaking a much-needed review of the Liquor Act.

One issue that was quite controversial this summer that hasn't been discussed in this House, and I would like to put across my views about, was the proposal to ban liquor sales to pregnant women. That, as Members are aware, was quite controversial, not only here but in other parts of the country. In fact, it was discussed on Peter Gzowski this morning.

I understand the deep concern. I understand the desperation that would lead groups to recommend such a harsh reaction to a problem. But I want to go on public record today to say that this particular proposal is absolutely unacceptable for a number of reasons. The first reason is I, for one, don't think it would pass any Charter test.

The second reason is what it really does is condemn women who don't have a drinking problem and put them in the same category with the women who do have a drinking problem.

Thirdly, it's very difficult to tell exactly when a woman is pregnant.

The fourth issue is more and more of the tests that are being done now say that much, if not all, of the damage that is done to a foetus is done in the first few weeks after conception, before a woman would even show that she is pregnant. I think we also have to recognize that a woman who is a problem drinker when she's pregnant does that for a reason, as all problem drinkers do. And that woman doesn't need to be publicly condemned and ridiculed. The woman needs the support of her family, of her community and of this government.

Later on today, I'll follow up with the Minister with some questions on this particular issue. But I just wanted to put it on the public record that I'm absolutely opposed to this particular proposal. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on August 23rd, a heavy equipment contractor in Cambridge Bay submitted a land use application to establish a sand quarry and for constructing a five to six-kilometre haul road to a site southwest of the community.

On September 8th, a land use permit was issued by DIAND's Inuvik office authorizing the work to proceed. This permit was issued without any type of consultative process regarding the land use development. The contractor started construction of an access road on September 9th. To date, they have completed approximately four kilometres. This access road starts in an area approximately 10 kilometres from town and runs parallel to an area which is a traditional summer camping area where local families net char and dry their fish and caribou. This area is also utilized for sport fishing, picnics and other recreational pursuits of community residents.

Madam Speaker, upon discovering that the development was proceeding, municipal councillors voiced objections for the lack of consultation. Although support for the development on council was mixed, they all agreed that due process by DIAND was not undertaken. Council had planned a public meeting on October 5th to discuss the development with community residents. The issuance of the land use permit and the initiation of road construction undermined council's efforts to formalize a position on the issue.

DIAND officials advised council that the land use application was for an area covered by a Department of National Defence land reserve. The contractor had received permission from the Department of National Defence to extract the sand and to build an access road to the quarry site. DIAND issued the land use permit based on DND permission.

Madam Speaker, the development has taken place at a time when a minimum number of community residents travel to the affected area. In fact, I believe most community residents aren't even aware of the development. The road and sand quarry development have raised a lot of questions which should have been addressed prior to any land use permit being granted. Questions such as why the need for a permanent road, what amount of resources are being extracted, over what period of time will activity take place, were there alternate sand quarry sites investigated, and, most importantly, what disruption and impact will the development have on traditional users of the area.

I find the whole process surrounding the access road for a sand quarry very distasteful. Madam Speaker, as my time is up, I ask for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, colleagues. Madam Speaker, I hope our government will convey in very strong terms to DIAND and the Government of Canada the need to undergo substantive consultation in communities where the issuance of land use permits may infringe upon traditional, recreational and historical uses of lands near our communities. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak on a matter of some concern to my constituents living in Kakisa and Fort Providence. During the last treaty day, which was held on July 27th, the representatives of DIAND could not make their scheduled appearance in Kakisa. It would have been nice, Madam Speaker, if someone could have informed the residents of Kakisa that the department would be unable to make it on that day.

That, in itself, doesn't really bother me. It was of minor concern to the residents and looked upon as an innocent oversight. Madam Speaker, what I am most concerned with is the lack of respect shown by the department when they were finally able to make it to Kakisa.

Madam Speaker, these treaties were signed 73 years ago as agreements between two sovereign nations and peoples. The Dene have come to look at these treaty payment days as an opportunity for our elders and leaders to give state of the union speeches to representatives of the Queen and the department, to have their concerns heard and possibly acted upon.

The lack of respect I refer to, Madam Speaker, is the fact that there are no senior members of the department present at any of these payment days. Surely, it is not too much to ask that a senior member of the department accommodate these parties as a sign of respect for our leaders and our elders, to listen to the people they are supposed to be working for.

In Fort Providence, I was in attendance for my local treaty day. As in the past, I had made it a practice to allow the chief and elders and, in fact, the entire community to receive their $5 before me. I figure, Madam Speaker, as an elected territorial politician making the kind of money that the press say I do, that I should allow the locals to go first. Besides, it gives me a good opportunity to visit with a majority of my constituents.

Madam Speaker, I did not get my $5. The departmental officials arrived somewhere around noon, so I assume they left Yellowknife at 8:00 in the morning and there were only two of us left standing in line...

Sorry, Mr. Gargan. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Madam Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, honourable Members. Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I did not get my $5. I assume that, because the departmental officials arrived somewhere around noon, they left Yellowknife at 8:00 in the morning. There were only two of us left standing in line, but when 5:00 pm came, these conscientious government employees shut the place down faster than Eliot Ness could shut down a liquor still during prohibition in Chicago.

---Laughter

Madam Speaker, even the banks are not that rude, and let their line-ups run out before they shut down.

Hear, hear.

Madam Speaker, I don't think it would have cost any of the DIAND employees any undue hardship to remain open another five minutes to finish their job, to show respect for all the members of the community, even the politicians. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have been interested in environmental matters for most of my life. As a Member of this Assembly for the last seven years, I have taken particular interest, especially as it relates to the mining industry.

Madam Speaker, we were all struck during the 1970s about how a threat of any great development suddenly brought warring factions together. We saw the Berger hearings bring all the environmental groups out right across the country. And battles waged all up the Mackenzie valley about what development was going to do. It was unproductive. It was an unproductive process in the sense that it caused two groups of people to fight, and they continued to fight until very recently.

Yesterday morning, I was pleased to hear Mr. Livingston, of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, announce that for the north slave province here -- the geological province, one of the major mineral caps in the world -- all stakeholders will now develop an environmental management plan.

I am pleased to see the mining industry finally decide this is an area where they have to play a major leadership role. Instead of reacting to this group or that group, they recognize that this is something which will really determine the future of the mining industry, not only in Canada, but in the rest of the world. So, I applaud the mining industry for doing what they are doing and for the leadership that has been taken to make this a major incentive for those mines that really want to establish themselves here.

The second thing, Madam Speaker, is that if mines are going to succeed in the Northwest Territories, not only does there have to be an environmental plan -- such as that being proposed for the province -- but also, they have to look at the benefits. What are the benefits that are going to accrue to the people who live there? I see those two things, environmental management and benefits to the people who live in this part of the world, as being major ingredients in the future economic plans for the mining industry in the Northwest Territories. I congratulate the people who are leading this movement. Thank you.

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to return to item 3, Members' statements. I don't think you saw my hand raised.

Sorry, I didn't see your hand go up. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to Members' statements. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to take a moment to share with you and the Members some information about an important group in my home community of Pangnirtung. That group is the Mamiisaiyiit group. Mamiisaiyiit is currently operating three support groups: an alcohol and drug dependency group; a healing group for survivors of sexual abuse; and, a support group for grieving families.

(Translation) In July of this year, the Mamiisaiyiit group also went hunting for one week with nine families and five individuals, including elders. For some of these elders, this was the first opportunity to hunt in many years. For various reasons they were unable to hunt alone or without help from others. From what I understand, the elders who went enjoyed themselves immensely. They successfully hunted caribou, seals and a beluga whale. The meat taken from this hunt was distributed to all elders in the community. If we are to learn from our elders, this kind of traditional event must be encouraged and supported. (Translation ends)

Madam Speaker, I am proud of my heritage and am happy to see that people in Pangnirtung are interested and willing to take steps to preserve our culture, and in doing so, help our elders.

I would like to congratulate the Mamiisaiyiit group for a successful hunt, and for showing elders that they are a much needed part of our society today. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5,

recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

I'm going to save my venom for Mr. Morin, Madam Speaker. I'm anxious to ask the Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board if he's had any response, following his commitment yesterday, to see if the chair of the Public Utilities Board would hold hearings outside Yellowknife on the general rate application in other affected regions of the territories. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, Mr. Todd.

I know that yesterday I said I was hot, but I'm not that hot. I haven't had the opportunity at this time to discuss with the chairman of the Public Utilities Board the request by the Member for Iqaluit that hearings be held in the eastern Arctic. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Madam Speaker, I was extremely impressed with the alacrity with which the Minister responded to my question yesterday. He said in response to my supplementary question that he would pursue the matter this afternoon. That was yesterday afternoon.

Shame, shame.

Did he pursue the matter yesterday afternoon as he assured this House he would at this time yesterday? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, Mr. Todd.

I think maybe the honourable Member swallowed his pocket thesaurus. Madam Speaker, I did pursue it with great vigour yesterday afternoon, however the Public Utilities Board was involved in meetings defending the constituencies that Mr. Patterson is concerned about. But I did talk late last evening with the deputy chair, Mr. Mercer who assured me that steps were going to be taken to visit with communities where the rate increases are most affected, and seek an opportunity for those that are most affected to express their views. I did do what he told me to do.

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. So that I don't further exhaust my few precious questions in question period, could I ask the Minister if he will, by statement or otherwise, inform the House when he forthwith deals with the matter as he pledged to do so yesterday. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, Mr. Todd.

This is an exhausting exercise. I want to assure the honourable Member that I'm taking the matter seriously, that we're going to make the appropriate moves to ensure that the Public Utilities Board in future does meet in the constituencies that are affected. I know this matter with respect to the power rate changes and increases, as expressed by Mr. Koe earlier in his statement, is an important one. I should be in a position soon to be able to advise them when, where, and how these meetings will take place. But he has my assurance in the meantime.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, October 11th, my colleagues, Mr. Antoine and Mr. Zoe, posed questions to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs about the current reorganization of the department at the headquarters level. I would like to ask a couple of follow-up questions for more clarity.

The Minister, when asked for rationale behind the reorganization, stated, and I quote from unedited Hansard of October 11th, "the rationale for the reorganization of this department was based on realigning the resources that we have within the department, to realign the divisions that fall under two deputy ministers which is now one. It was just to get the department streamlined within the existing divisions that the department has with the number of resources and staff." So based on this statement made by the Minister, I would like to ask the honourable Minister what divisions within the department at the headquarters level are being restructured, streamlined or eliminated as a result of this reorganization.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When I made the response to Mr. Zoe's question on October 11th, in my return I mentioned the department had been reorganized with divisions under two deputy ministers, and changes were made to realign under one. I meant to say the department was organized with divisions under two assistant deputy ministers and now there is one.

This, Madam Speaker, in the last two days has been my struggle that I tried to make a Minister's statement on, to correct any confusion that I may have caused yesterday.

Further, to answer Mr. Koe's question, on the divisions that have been realigned are: lands, planning and surveys have been combined from three into one division; the municipal operation assessment division has been deleted; municipal operation functions have been combined with the capital and community works area from the former community works and capital planning division which is now community development division; and, the corporate affairs division has been deleted and has the position of director of strategic planning and special projects. The result has been the deletion of five director positions. I think that is the current status of Department of Municipal and Community Affairs' reorganization, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. I would like to thank the Minister for that enlightenment. Within these divisions, you mention that several divisions are being deleted; specifically, corporate affairs and I think I heard municipal affairs. I believe in the division of municipal affairs there is a significant number of people. At noon I looked in the phone book, and I think there are 29 people in that specific division. So what is going to happen to these positions which were allocated to these specific divisions? What happens to the positions that are within those divisions?

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The positions are still there. In fact, the telephone numbers, along with the present staff, we have not changed. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Maybe I can clarify a little more. I should have asked, what is going to happen to the people who are in these positions in those divisions which are going to be eliminated.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

The only position that has been eliminated, I believe, is corporate affairs. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Regarding that position, I hope the individual hasn't been eliminated but I assume the position has been eliminated. Has that person then been given lay-off notice or what's happening with that specific individual?

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The position has been eliminated but the person has not. Every effort has been made to retain all staff within the department. The affected personnel or staff, due to the reorganization of the department, have received letters if their jobs are affected in the change of reorganization.

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you. Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We haven't, and I personally have not, taken a view on the suggestion that has been made, primarily because I believe that the review process will allow us to address, in principle, some of the issues that were raised, and we are not at the particular point yet for any Minister, or myself in particular, to take a firm position on any of these issues.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. I understand the Minister's answer but I am not sure I can agree with it today. Unfortunately, partly because of a response from a representative of the department who actually gave a more definitive response to this particular recommendation, as opposed to no response to dozens of other recommendations, this became quite a big issue. So it is an issue that MLAs have to deal with. It is an issue that the government has to deal with. So I think the Minister has some responsibility to clarify the words of the Minister's staff on this particular issue. So I will ask again, for the public who have some concerns about the government seeming to show favouritism towards this issue when they are silent on most of the other issues, what is the position of the department on this issue. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As Minister, I haven't taken a position for or against the initiative that has been proposed. The department has not supported the initiative in terms of its final decisions or conclusions. I think that the point the honourable Member made earlier is an important consideration when making any final decisions, because we still have to address the whole issue in terms of its constitutional implications. We have to also regard its enforceability and the possible impact on health policies surrounding prenatal care. Those are all components that have to be addressed before we reach a final position. I would suggest to the honourable Member, while I recognize the importance of the issue, that I think it's premature on my part, without concluding and providing this House with the legislative action paper, to make any conclusive decisions. I would think that the consultation process should come up, in the final analysis, with its recommendation on the legislation.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Thank you. If the Minister and the department were totally consistent about this, I could agree with the response. I will then ask the Minister if he could assure me and assure this House that representatives of the department won't make statements which could be construed as being favourably disposed towards one proposal or another? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just to advise the honourable Member, we look at all proposals and suggestions seriously, but we have to look at them carefully. I agree with the honourable Member and say yes to the honourable Member that we must be careful and must consider the ramifications before we take a position one way or the other. I think the process should work itself out and allow us to make some final decisions on these issues.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

For my final supplementary, Madam Speaker, because this particular issue seems to have received a lot more attention than other issues in this review, can I ask the Minister if the Minister could provide to this House a definitive response to this issue as soon as possible, not waiting for the final review to be completed? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The problem with trying to take a definitive position on this particular issue is that it is all part of a process that has been supported by Members of this House. I think that it would be undermining the process to its conclusion if we made a final and definitive position, but what I can say to the honourable Member -- he made the point quite clearly earlier -- is I concur that it is an issue that cannot be taken, in terms of firmness of position, without looking at its constitutional implications and the enforceability issue. I concur with those remarks that the honourable Member made, and that has to be considered when we come to a final decision on this matter.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is one area that I am not particularly familiar with, but I can assure the Member that I will continue to do the work that my predecessor started and this is one area I feel is important that we should be pursuing. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am not familiar with that particular incident, so I will take his question as notice. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. I would like to ask the Minister what her department's role is with regard to land use applications on federal Crown land? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe Crown land is the responsibility of DIAND. I am not aware whether our department works with DIAND. If I could get more detail on the particular incidents, I could look into it. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I recognize it is federal Crown land and it is handled by DIAND. I am trying to clarify whether or not the department is formally advised by DIAND where there are land use applications outside of municipal boundaries that may affect municipalities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, this pertains to particular incidents, so I will have to take his question as notice.

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I know this is perhaps not a subject that the Minister could be expected to be on top of, but I did give some notice of this question to the Minister. It is about the project I referred to in my Member's statement to install windows that open in the married students' residence in Iqaluit. I'd like to ask the Minister of Public Works and Services why a Yellowknife project officer had to handle this $21,000 contract in the Baffin region. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Member for the couple of hours notice that he did give me on this question.

---Laughter

I thank him for raising the issue. It is always good to hear about issues out in the regions. The married students' residence you are talking about was, I believe, built last year or the year before. The windows were not installed to the specifications the department asked for and we ended up in a dispute with the consultant. There was a pending court case that could have possibly gone ahead. We ended up looking after this project from Yellowknife with the original project officer who was on the job from day one.

This project occurred before the decentralization of minor projects happened. We felt it was important to keep the same project officer to deal with the consultant. We managed to come to agreement with the local consultant. He paid two-thirds of the cost and we ended up paying one-third, without going to court. So, it came to a satisfactory conclusion and I believe that residents who are living in this residence are quite happy with the windows that do now open. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister may be sorry that he said the residents were happy with the windows that now open because I understand, Madam Speaker, the college, the client, asked for manual, not crank-operated windows, and windows high enough so that small children could not fall out.

I would like to ask the Minister, why did the project officer tell the client -- in response to the client's concern that the windows be designed so that children could not fall out -- that the answer was parents would have to closely watch their children, and not that the windows would be designed so they would not be a hazard to young children. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't know the answer to that question so I will have to take it as notice. Thank you.

Thank you. The question has been taken as notice. Mr. Patterson.