This is page numbers 1041 - 1092 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Members Present

Hon. James Antoine, Hon. Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Hon. Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Hon. Don Morin, Hon Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Hon. Manitok Thompson, Hon. John Todd

-- Prayer

Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1041

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Orders of the Day. Ms. Thompson, your point of privilege.

Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1041

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I would like to stand on a point of privilege. During question period I mistakenly indicated to Mr. Steen that I had not used the words, "some communities are not educated". In reviewing the Hansard this morning I realized that on page 2017 I did use the words, "communities might not be educated".

I apologize to Mr. Steen and thank him for bringing this matter to my attention. Mr. Speaker, Inuktitut is my first language and in my mind I was talking about training. Training and education are the same words in Inuktitut. As Minister of MACA it is my responsibility to work with communities to ensure they are properly trained to carry on their responsibilities. I take this role very seriously and will work hard to ensure communities get the training they need to be successful. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1041

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. You do not have a Point of Privilege but I am sure the Minister appreciates your statement. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Morin.

Minister's Statement 102-13(3): New Infrastructure Organization
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1041

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been a number of questions in the House this week regarding the possibility of amalgamation of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Public Works and Services and the Department of Transportation. As Members will recall, this is not a new idea.

Last spring, the Standing Committee on Social Programs discussed the possibility of combining organizations such as the Housing Corporation and the Department of Public Works and Services to create one department responsible for infrastructure management.

This potential amalgamation supports that idea, and takes it one step further.

The Housing Corporation and the Departments of Transportation and Public Works and Services all design, build, and maintain community infrastructure. Unfortunately, as separate departments, these organizations often fail to take advantage of the economics of the scale that are possible through pooled resources and coordinated planning. As well, communities are often confused when they have to deal with three major contracting organizations. This amalgamation would directly address both of these issues, and would in fact, result in additional benefits as well.

Mr. Speaker, creating one department to manage our infrastructure is another step in fulfilling the 13th Assembly's priority to develop a more effective and efficient government structure. It is also positive and necessary to move in support of Community Empowerment and Division.

Mr. Speaker, to put this in perspective, I would like to provide Members with a bit of history. In 1991 the Government had twenty departments. Recognizing a change was needed, the 12th Assembly began redesigning and restructuring government, and in the process, reorganized the Departments of Public Works and Government Services; Education, Culture and Employment; and Health and Social Services.

When this Assembly took office last fall, we all made a commitment to continue the process in order to help secure our financial future, and to best prepare for division. Our first step resulted in the creation of the Department of Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development. Our next step, we undertook the dismantling of the Department of Safety and Public Services, transferring the responsibilities to other government departments.

The consolidation of our infrastructure departments will complete the process of organizational reform which began in 1991. By 1997, the core structure of the Government will have been reduced from twenty to nine departments.

As a result, a great deal of overlap and duplication will be eliminated, and the majority of our funding will be devoted to fulfilling our mandate, of delivering programs and services to the public.

Mr. Speaker, Members asked questions earlier this week regarding timeframe for the amalgamation of our infrastructure departments. I would like to stress to all Members that we are in the very early stages of this process. Cabinet has asked for a workplan outlining the overall process for the potential amalgamation for review at the end of October. After the workplan is presented and discussed at Cabinet, we will be moving it forward for discussion and review by the Standing Committee on Government Operations. Following that, we will be tabling a paper in the Legislative Assembly some time in November to allow for public debate.

Until the work plan is complete we cannot give a specific time for amalgamation or any stage of the process .. but I will say, based on the time frame of this Government, that our hope is to successfully complete this process in the spring of 1997.

Mr. Speaker, Members have also voiced concerns about the process that we will be following reviewing the amalgamation proposal, and ask about the opportunity for input and public debate. The work plan that is expected to come before Cabinet will include a strategy for thorough consultation with all stakeholders, both in the private sector and the Government.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, it will include a more specific plan on how we will seek Members' input and how we will communicate with them throughout this process.

As this amalgamation overlaps on three different ministerial portfolios, I have asked the Honourable Goo Arlooktoo to be the lead Minister for this project. Mr. Arlooktoo will make every effort to bring issues to the attention of the Members through the Standing Committee on Government Operations. He will also ensure, where possible, that the amalgamation process will be conducted in the open, and communication to Members and the Departments involved will be a priority.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to discussing this amalgamation, I would like to stress one thing to all Members of this House. While it is important to discuss the proposed move in the open, we must be aware of the sensitivities involved, particularly when it comes to employees working in the three existing Departments. While the Government will make every attempt to minimize lay offs in the amalgamation process, we must be sensitive to what we say in our public discussions. I believe we should, as with any other topic, focus on the benefits for all parties involved.

Members must remember the issues facing this Government, the goals we have set for ourselves, and the benefits that will be achieved with this amalgamation. And more importantly, we must all remember that we are doing this not for short-term gain or on a whim -- but rather to help build a foundation for the future of the North. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 102-13(3): New Infrastructure Organization
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1043

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you Mr. Morin. Ministers' Statements, Ms. Thompson.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1043

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Minister's Statement today is on the subject of community empowerment. Later on today I will be tabling an overview of the community empowerment initiative. I hope that this information will provide us with a basis for the discussion we need to have on this important subject. Mr. Speaker, the concept of community empowerment is not new. In the last Legislative Assembly, ordinary Members and Cabinet alike endorsed a community wellness strategy. Community empowerment is also a priority of this Cabinet and a key feature of the agenda for change. Mr. Speaker, most Members in this House are already familiar with the material I am tabling today. It is the basic presentation that we have using at meetings with the Standing Committees and regional leadership summits over the summer. The document is meant to get the discussion going. It does not represent approved Cabinet direction. It is not carved in stone. It does represent the thinking and ideas that have been developed to date. Mr. Speaker, at the community level, and at regional leadership meetings we have found positive support for community empowerment. Community leaders know that they are very limited in the decisions they are currently allowed to make. These are difficult times for any level of Government, but community governments are experiencing a great deal of frustration with our current system. The community empowerment initiative outlines a new way of doing business. It describes new roles for community governments and yes, that also means changes for Cabinet and for ordinary Members. For many years, Members of the Legislative Assembly had the burden of responsibility for delivering capital projects to their communities. That system worked well when we had a fully funded capital plan. Now that capital budgets are being cut, we are all finding that the old system does not works as well.

I think it is fair to say that we are all frustrated with the current system, but I believe community leaders are the most frustrated of all.

Community leaders are trying to make responsible decisions with diminishing resources. Yet they see the Legislative Assembly is not ready to give them any flexibility to set to their own priorities. We have to decided how much power we are willing to give up so that community governments can truly be responsible for their residents and for their future.

How much flexibility are we willing to give communities? We need to let communities know whether we believe they can be responsible decision-makers, or whether their decisions will be revisited by this House. This week it was Fort Simpson that needed flexibility, but next time it could be one of your constituents. What are we going to do if other communities come forward asking for the flexibility to use their limited capital dollars in a way that makes more sense to them? Are we going to say no because we know better?

Mr. Speaker, many MLA's attended the regional leadership meetings held over the past few months. Others were present at standing committee meetings when presentations on community empowerment were given.

I have received letters from the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure telling me the initiative should be put on hold.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1043

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1044

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I have received a letter from the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Social Programs telling me that initiative should not be put on hold.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1044

Some Hon. Members

Bravo! Bravo!

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1044

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

So I welcome this opportunity to get the issues out on the floor of the House where the communities can hear the concerns that Ordinary Members have about community empowerment.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that I believe that communities in the NWT are ahead of their territorial politicians in this matter.

Communities have been asking for more authority and more control for years. But I want to emphasize that with authority and control, come accountability.

I was pleased with the recommendations made by the Standing Committee on Government Operations with respect to asking the Auditor General of Canada to undertake a comprehensive audit of my Department. Mr. Speaker, I welcome the recommendation. The recommendations of the Auditor General will help MACA improve its capacity to monitor municipal finances, and as such will be very helpful. I appreciate the Standing Committee's attention to this important part of the empowerment initiative.

Mr. Speaker, I would like this house to know that the government is not giving everything away. The work we have done to date has focused on working through the many complex issues around the empowerment initiative. This work has involved almost every department in our government. There has been a tremendous effort to identify and analyze issues and develop options for the initiative. The main parts of this work includes:

1. A clear definition of territorial interests and community opportunities. As government gets smaller and our resources shrink, we have to put our efforts into territorial-wide areas of responsibility. We have to get out of areas of decision-making that could effectively be handled by local governments.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1044

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1044

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

2. Community planning - a community planning process has been developed for NWT communities and a staff training program has been planned. Communities need to plan for their futures and these tools enable them to do so.

3. Assessments - as communities take on more responsibility, it will be very important to make sure they have the skills and expertise they need to be successful. A major part of assessments involves determining the training needs of the community. We want to make sure that local people get the skills and training they need to take on this challenge. Again, all training departments and colleges have participated in this work.

4. Accountability - options for block funding are being researched and developed. Monitoring and evaluation are also key elements of the accountability framework.

I would also like the members to know that my Department has been consulting with the office of the Auditor General of Canada since spring. My Deputy Minister initiated discussions with the auditor generals office and requested "real time" advice on the development of the Community Empowerment Initiative.

Staff from the Auditor General's office reviewed the various components of the initiative over the summer, not just with MACA but also with the Financial Management Board Secretariat and other departments involved in developing the initiative. We are expecting to receive the result of the Auditor General's review soon, and I will provide Members with a copy of his comments and observations.

Mr. Speaker, I will also be tabling motions from the Baffin Leadership summit and the Keewatin Leadership meetings. These motions express support for community empowerment.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear!

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I have heard several Members say that they support community empowerment in principle, but that they have concerns about how it will be implemented.

To these Members, I would like to say that your concerns are valid, and I hope that through our discussions, we can resolve them. But I also urge members to let go of the old way of doing business in government, and have more faith in the communities.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear!

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

We need to reduce dependency on government and increase local authority and autonomy. We can not do that if all the important community decisions are made on the floor of this House.

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear!

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to discussing the Community Empowerment Initiative in this House. My cabinet colleagues and I are sincere in our belief that communities can handle more responsibility. We believe that community leaders are capable of deciding their priorities and that they can, and should, take control of their future. I hope that Members agree, and that we move forward with community empowerment quickly.

Our communities are counting on us. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 103-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you Ms. Thompson. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 104-13(3): Community Wellness Public Relations Campaign
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services has launched an extensive public awareness campaign designed to promote community wellness planning and individual responsibility.

The campaign includes public service announcements that describe community wellness successes. These will air shortly on CBC television.

As well, the Department is developing a wellness campaign for school-aged children which includes comic and colouring books, contests and lunch bags to encourage healthy choices.

The Department has a 1-800 number for residents to receive information on community wellness planning and projects. Mr. Speaker, the Department has also distributed planning guidelines on HIV/AIDS prevention and it leading workshops on how to help communities deal with this threat to their health and well-being. The Department is actively working with communities on suicide prevention through information, support and workshops.

We hope all of these strategies will help people become more aware of how they can make health choices individually and as communities.

I am informing Members about our awareness campaign and ask all Members to join us in promoting healthy choices. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 104-13(3): Community Wellness Public Relations Campaign
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you Mr. Ng. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Dent.

Minister's Statement 105-13(3): Training Initiatives In Preparation For Nunavut
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1045

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mahsi Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker part of the vision for Nunavut is a workforce that represents the population. I would like to bring

this Assembly up to date on Education, Culture and Employment's participation in two projects that will help meet this goal.

In July, I was pleased to travel to Rankin Inlet to launch the Inuit Employment Plans. These plans show how the Government of the NWT will support the development of a workforce that is representative of the population of Nunavut. The GNWT has committed to having a workforce made up of 50% Inuit employees overall in Nunavut by 1999, including 50% in management positions. Inuit make up 85% of the population of the settlement area, so that level of participation in the civil service will be the ultimate goal of the plans.

The Inuit Employment Plans are flexible documents, which will be updated to reflect changes in the structure of the territorial government before 1999.

The territorial government will continue to consult with Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated as we work to update and fine-tune the plans.

Every government department has posted its Inuit Employment Plan in its offices throughout the Nunavut area. The plan can also be viewed at each department's headquarters office in Yellowknife. A consolidated version is available for review in all Career Centres and regional offices of the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Mr. Speaker I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Minister's Statement 105-13(3): Training Initiatives In Preparation For Nunavut
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1046

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister Responsible for Education, Culture and Employment is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his Minister's Statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays, conclude your statement Mr. Minister.

Minister's Statement 105-13(3): Training Initiatives In Preparation For Nunavut
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1046

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker, honourable Members.

On September 25th, I announced the release of the Nunavut Unified Human Resources Development Strategy, in conjunction with the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the President of Nunavut Tunngavik.

The strategy stems from the work of a group chaired by the Nunavut Implementation Commission, with the participation of the Nunavut Implementation Training Committee, the Government of Canada, the Government of the NWT and Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.

The strategy identifies new initiatives and builds on existing training programs. As the plan unfolds over the next four years, there will be many new opportunities for Inuit to train for jobs in the Nunavut government, land claims organizations and the private sector.

The federal government is investing $39.8 million into the strategy during the next four years. This government will invest $101.4 million in education and training activities in Nunavut in 1996/97, and the Nunavut Implementation Training Committee will spend $1.6 million on planning and training initiatives this year.

Mr. Speaker, the development of a representative workforce in Nunavut will be important for the new Territory's success. I am confident that the territorial government's Inuit Employment Plans and the Nunavut Unified Human Resources Development Strategy will help us reach that goal.

Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 105-13(3): Training Initiatives In Preparation For Nunavut
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1046

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' Statements is now over. Members' Statement, Ms. Groenewegen.

Concerns About Northwestel Service Delivery
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1046

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you Mr. Speaker. The telecommunications industry has undergone dramatic changes in the last twenty years. Opening up the market to competition has resulted in many benefits to telephone users everywhere in North America except in the Northwest

Territories.

Because telephone service provided by NorthwesTel in the NWT is still a monopoly, we in the North are not able to enjoy the benefits of competition, such as the timely offering of new services, new technology, and lower long distances rates.

In the meantime, we still have to put up with lousy service, to address billing concerns, to ask for changes in service, and to request new services.

I do not think anyone has a problem in a change of service point, ie. location, but do have a problem with lowering service levels to the point where customers have to wait for service for up to two hours on hold.

Through the 1-811 number, we have lost the benefit of local personalized offices and community level jobs.

This is 1996 and we still have substandard quality of service between communities, as close as Hay River and Fort Smith. We have incompatible technologies between the North and the South.

While I recognize the rationale behind NorthwesTel taking over the telephone service in Nunavut, I am at a loss to understand why long distance rates have not been rebalanced. Nunavut benefitted from being part of the large Bell network before the takeover, and economies of scale meant that Nunavut came into lower long distance rates. But now that we are all part of the same larger network, it is completely unacceptable for my constituents in Hay River to pay 96 cents per minute to call Vancouver when residents of Iqaluit calling from two and a half times the distance only pay 48 cents.

Opening the long distance market to competition would fix this situation in a big hurry. I believe the people of the North can only benefit from opening up the telephone market here to competition. This Government is NorthwesTel's largest customer, so if the Government exerts its influence on NorthwesTel, and with CRTC, I believe that we can see the benefits of competition in the telephone market and have them finally come to Northerners. Thank you.

-- Applause

Concerns About Northwestel Service Delivery
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' Statements, Mr. Ningark.

Anticipated Absence From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform this House as a courtesy on Tuesday, October 15 and 16, I will be absent from the House to attend the Inuit Association in Gjoa Haven. Thank you.

Anticipated Absence From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Members' Statements, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Appreciation To The Minister Of Education, Culture And Employment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to thank the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment for releasing ... And it is in regards to one of my constituent's requests. I do believe that they have contributed money for one of my constituents from Pond Inlet. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Appreciation To The Minister Of Education, Culture And Employment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' Statements, Mr. Barnabas.

Need To Replace Arctic Bay Community Freezer
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1047

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Time and again my colleagues have brought forward examples of failure by the Government to provide support and assistance at the community level,

where the bulk of residents in the NWT still live. Mr. Speaker, the community of Arctic Bay has been identifying problems with the community freezer for years. It is the last of the group of very old freezers in our region. All the others have been replaced and it has been breaking down repeatedly in the last year. I have raised this issue with the Honourable Minister of Public Works and Services. Mr. Speaker, there are central problems illustrated by this case, critical community facility, one that is essential to safe food storage of country food, has been allowed to fail. These units are originally supplied by the Government to assist the communities, then the responsibility for the units was transferred over to the community organizations. But clearly, there are no freezer technicians in any of the small communities in the NWT. Our people are still dependent on the Government staff to maintain this equipment. When this equipment started to fail repeatedly, the local technicians have tried their best to make the repairs that they can, and the group has worked with great care to maintain the freezer properly. The repairs were finally carried out and the community was presented with a bill over $24,000 and the incorrect and rudely worded suggestion that the problems were all the fault of the community people. Mr. Speaker, we all have examples of this sort of treatment of the community level by Government staff. I am particularly concerned that this way of doing business has continued for many years. I have seen in this example a model of how community empowerment could fail us all if it started without the support of the communities. Mr. Speaker, I seek for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Need To Replace Arctic Bay Community Freezer
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1048

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for the High Arctic is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude his statement. Mr. Barnabas.

Need To Replace Arctic Bay Community Freezer
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1048

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the old pattern could be repeated. Set up a program and dump on the communities without the resources and training. Then blame the communities when things go wrong. Then take all the credit for cutting the deficit at the same time. Mr. Speaker, I encourage all the Members of this House to remember their own communities, their willingness to control their own future, and their request for support and resources, as we head towards the parliament of our people in the communities. Mr. Speaker, I will have some oral questions later today for the Minister of Public Works and Services. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Need To Replace Arctic Bay Community Freezer
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1048

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Member's Statement, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Picco.

Member's Performances In The Legislature
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1048

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past week and a half this House has had more debate than we have had in the first nine months of this Government. At times it has been heated. Mr. Speaker, the debates have shown the public that we are working and grappling with continued cuts and downsizing. This type of debate is healthy as long as it stays on the topic and does not get personal.

You cannot expect twenty-four people to agree on every item, or issue. Constituency concerns may take precedence over House concerns and visa versa. So be it. In some circles being consistent on every issues seems to be the utmost of importance, but being consistent on every aspect, or program, or issue, only demonstrates rigidity and the belief in the infallibility of a decision or stance.

Maybe the forward collective believes in consistency, but that does not make it right. A Member first and foremost has the legislative right to vote on any issue, any way they choose. Not voting with a majority in a consensus government style, like this House, could and sometimes does ostracize a Member.

I think it is important to remember other aspects of a Member's work in this House. Are they present for all the meetings? Do they keep up with all the committee issues? Do they ask informed questions? Are they habitually late or do they come and go from meetings as they feel like it? If a Member asks lots of questions in the House, are the questions judged on their merit, or frequency? Personally I would rather hear five questions from the same Member than one flippant question from another Member.

Over the next several months we will have more heated debate concerning the deficit reduction targets and the strategies of this Government. I look forward to this open debate and I think the public does, and needs to see this in the public forum in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Performances In The Legislature
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1049

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Member's Statement, Mr. O'Brien.

Appreciation For Fire Fighters
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1049

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking today about fire fighting, but that of a different nature than what Mr. Picco is referring to. Mr. Speaker, this week has been designated as a time to acknowledge the bravery and dedication of all fire fighters across the country. Mr. Speaker, in the past I have had the opportunity of serving the volunteer fire fighting crews in both Tuktoyaktuk and Arviat. Mr. Speaker, this first hand experience gives me a realistic view of the hard work and dedication that fire fighting demands. Mr. Speaker, Johnny Sewoee is the Fire Chief of my own community of Arviat. He has a voluntary crew of twenty fire fighters who may at any given time be asked to risk their lives to keep the Hamlet of Arviat safe from fire. Driving a sixteen year old fire truck, Mr. Speaker, Johnny and his crew carry out practice runs every two weeks in the winter and once a week during the summer months. This practice session ensures that the crew keeps up-to-date on modern fire fighting techniques and keeps them always prepared in case of emergency.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to the actual fire fighting practices, the firemen pay regular visits to the local schools, teach our children about fire fighting, fire safety measures. The children are taught how to escape safely from their homes if they are caught on fire, and also, if their schools should be endangered by fire.

Mr. Speaker, in my other community of Baker Lake, Mr. Titus Alooq has been the fire chief for a number of years and leads a crew of fifteen volunteer firemen. Mr. Speaker, approximately two years ago, Baker Lake experienced a major fire where two staff houses caught fire within twenty minutes of each other. With only one fire truck at their disposal, and despite the brave efforts of the crew in sub-zero temperatures, the crew were only able to salvage one of the homes.

It is because of instances like this, Mr. Speaker, and the regular time-consuming training that they do, I am proud to acknowledge all the fire fighters, especially those dedicated to voluntary crews in Arviat and Baker Lake. We owe them a huge debt of gratitude and, far too often, they are taken for granted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Appreciation For Fire Fighters
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1049

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Member's statement, Mr. Krutko.

Impact Of Funding Reductions In Mackenzie Delta
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1049

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier has stated that the government is committed to improving social conditions, empowering communities and working towards community wellness through community based solutions. Ironically, community based improved programs like the Tl'oondih Healing Society, which, to date, there was a motion passed in the Committee of the Whole, and basically, nothing has been done.

So far, nothing has been done in regards to core funding, other healing programs are being funded over a million dollar a year, federal government has developed an initiative with the Tl'oondih Healing Society to manage and assist clients once they complete the Tl'oondih Healing program. This agreement was signed this summer between Human Resource Development Canada to develop and aftercare program to help individuals requiring skills and participate in the labour market in a more transactional way and become more independent.

I would like to also comment on the various Ministers' statements in regards to community empowerment. Community well being, fairness for all and all the other fairy tale stories that are being told and political promises are great. But in my riding there are 1700 people who receive capital expenditure of $900,000 per year compared to the other ridings. In my constituency over the last ten years, the capital spending works out to about $1200 per person compared to the next closest riding of Nunakput of $2300 per person.

The following ridings in the south received almost twice or three times as much revenues as I do in my riding in regards to loss of jobs, business opportunities and training, potential for benefits in my constituency, so I have received not as much as others over the last ten years.

On topics in regards to the other question, in government layoffs I received five percent of those cuts, and also, in regards to the Mackenzie Delta region, denied a project, that is the community correction facility for Aklavik and the Knute Lang learning and development correction centre, has been.

Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Impact Of Funding Reductions In Mackenzie Delta
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1050

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, the member from Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement, do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Krutko.

Impact Of Funding Reductions In Mackenzie Delta
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1050

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Mackenzie Delta was denied a community correction facility in Aklavik which was known as the Knute Lang learning and development correction centre. It was also refused, in Fort McPherson, the territorial government refused to fund one cent towards core funding the Tl'oondih Healing Program, yet funds other facilities across the Northwest Territories and also, southern Canada.

In Inuvik, federal funding was put towards the replacement of a hospital and that also has been cut by this government, so if this government can talk about fairness and equity and calling fair treatment to all, I do not know what the children of the Mackenzie Delta will think looking back over the last ten years and seeing what has happened. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Impact Of Funding Reductions In Mackenzie Delta
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1050

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you Mr. Krutko. Member's statement Mr. Ootes.

Growth And Achievement Of The GNWT
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1050

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, next year marks the 30th anniversary of the territorial government's arrival in the north. This will be the last time we will pass a milestone as a single territory.

We have come a long way since September 18, 1967. And those are the days the territorial government was a colonial government ruled under the benevolent dictatorship of Commissioner Stu Hodgson. We often get after cabinet sometimes for taking off an decisions without consulting the ordinary members, but let me say this, the cabinet powers today are mild compared to those of Commissioner Hodgson and the other commissioners of the early sixties and seventies, and I know because I worked for them.

That is all in the past now. When I look back on the last three decades, I am amazed at how much we have accomplished as a territory. This assembly has grown from an appointed council to a fully elected responsible and accountable democratic government, and I am very proud of that achievement.

With Nunavut, we are witnessing the creation of a new form of government. It will be an unprecedented blend of public and aboriginal institutions. The western territory is making an attempt to achieve the similar goal.

But our accomplishments go far beyond this government. In 1967 most Canadians would not have dreamed of land claims, remember this was two years before the infamous 1969 white paper on aboriginal people in Canada. Today, here in the territories we have four complete land claim agreements, and are close to finalizing a fifth.

Self-government, though it has a way to go, is on the road to becoming a practical reality here in the territories. I would like to note what our communities have achieved social and culturally as well. Unfortunately the two minute limit on member statements precludes that option.

Mr. Speaker I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Growth And Achievement Of The GNWT
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The member for Yellowknife Central is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent Mr. Ootes.

Growth And Achievement Of The GNWT
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the point of my statement is this: we are in period of rapid change. We are heading in new unprecedented directions. I believe this legislature will benefit from taking some small measure in 1997 to celebrate its 30th anniversary. A look at what we have accomplished in the past will help us focus on the issues that confront us in the near future. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

-- applause

Growth And Achievement Of The GNWT
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you Mr. Ootes. Member's statement, Mr. Rabesca.

Congratulating Grand Chief Joe Rabesca And Bhp
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you may recall a few short months ago, BHP along with a number of aboriginal groups started on a path that would provide assurance benefits and protections on areas of the environment and natural resources. The goals of course was to allow a diamond mine to operate within the NWT. A few have heard over the last day, or so, this goal is progressing towards a reality. I would like to congratulate our Grand Chief Joe Rabesca, the treaty 11 council negotiator as well as BHP for making this historical agreement, and making the next step in seeing this project reality.

This project means many benefits to our people as well as the rest of Northwest Territories. It is nice to see that glimmer of light in horizon. In these times of cutbacks and layoffs, we can really support and encourage the other negotiating group to do the best and to try to come up with a package that works for them.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Grand Chief and Council as well as BHP, as they say, diamonds are Dogribs best friends...(laughter). Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- applause

Congratulating Grand Chief Joe Rabesca And Bhp
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Member's Statement, Mr. Erasmus.

Lack Of Agreement On Restructuring Initiatives
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1051

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to commend the Premier on his recent statement that he is going to table the paper regarding the amalgamation of Transportation, Housing Corporation, Public Services into the Legislative Assembly for public debate.

I just wanted to mention that there seems to be a little bit of reorganizing of history here in this paper. The Premier indicated that the 12th Assembly recognized changes needed so they began redesigning and restructuring Government and then the process reorganized departments. That, when this Assembly took office last fall we all made a commitment to continue that process. He indicated that our first step was altering the creation of the Department of Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development. Next step, was the dismantling of the Department of Safety and Public Services. He forgot to mention the dismantling of Personnel, but he mentioned that he also continued that the consolidation of our infrastructure departments will complete the process of organizational reform.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that we as MLA's were taken advantage of, because these things did go through the committees, and we all felt that at some point we will all have our say and agree to, or say nay, to these things, but that did not happen, and I take a strong exception when I see, that it says here, that we all made a commitment to continue that process and it lays out these things which I never agreed to. Thank you.

-- applause

Lack Of Agreement On Restructuring Initiatives
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Member's statement? Returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1052

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the Chairperson of the Baffin Division of the Board of Education, Mr. Joe Atikitalluq.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Barnabas.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1052

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also recognize, a colleague, Board Chairperson, Joe Atikitalluq. Thank you.

-- applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions, Mr. Krutko.

Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice. Aklavik was supposed to get a community corrections facility last year, which has been cancelled. Can the Minister confirm that the correctional facility is definitely not going to be built.

Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes I can confirm that based on current funding that appropriations that were dedicated for the Aklavik correctional centre was reprofiled into capital contributions for operators, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that funding which was to be used for two community correction facilities is now going to be available on a one time basis to develop wilderness bush camps for offenders. Can communities apply to the Minister to access some of those funds?

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1052

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng?

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, operators of wilderness operations camps can apply to the Department for one time capital contributions to assist them, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that Aklavik did not get the community corrections facility that it thought it was going to be getting, they thought it was agreed to, will the Minister consider giving priority to Aklavik for available bush camp funding to develop an alternative facility to support community justice?

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have indicated in the past that yes, I think that Aklavik, given their expectations to have a community correctional centre there, that is no longer available for funding, that we would give them serious priority and consideration in any proposals that would come forward from that community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions? Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Government has talked a lot about community empowerment, community wellness, and the cuts to the Tl'oondih healing camp and also the Aklavik correctional facility seems inconsistent with empowering communities making their decisions. Can the Minister explain how those cuts support the Government's initiative to implement community empowerment and community wellness?

Supplementary To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all there were no cuts to the Tl'oondih funding. Contrary to that, as I have indicated in the past, we provided some funding from program areas within the Department of Health and Social Services to try to assist them in financing their operations. In respect to the correctional facility, that was originally designated for Aklavik, unfortunately, the Department of Justice did not have any operational dollars approved for that facility, and that was one of the reasons why the decision was made to reprofile those monies to capital contributions first of all to try to spread out the amount of dollars to a number of communities to allow them the opportunity to establish wilderness camp operations, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Question 452-13(3): Building Of Community Correction Facility
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Miltenberger.

Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. It is in relation to his community wellness public relations campaign comments. I was wondering if the Minister has a succinct definition of what actually community wellness is.

Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1053

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My definition, Mr. Speaker,

would be giving community based organizations and community individuals and groups the necessary resources and support to foster the development of wellness amongst their individuals in their communities to better the overall health of the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question supplementary Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister indicate then where the definition of wellness being a state of being that we hope to achieve, that is difficult to measure fits into the, into that definition. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess I would go back to having individuals having the responsibility and the acknowledgement of being able to look after themselves and to contribute to the betterment of the community by supporting their peers and supporting other organizations within the community, for the benefit of the community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Given that the Minister just basically repeated the initial part of his definition without really addressing the issue and what it is to achieve a state of being at that level, and one will note, how do we know when we have achieved that state of being in the community? Could the Minister indicate, given the money that we are spending for community wellness plans, do you anticipate some sort of success at the end of the day? I notice you indicate here you are going to have a campaign that will include public service announcements that describe community wellness successes, and these will air shortly on CBC television. Given the sort of confusion over the community wellness, or the lack of clarity, I am assuming this community TV announcements will be sort of a mini-series that maybe the minister could tell us what he anticipates at the end of the day with all of this money. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Just to again remind the members that a lot of the question, the question that the member from Thebacha is asking is getting into an area of personal opinions. And if you want your question and if you look at the rules regarding your question, it says an oral question should be concisely and clearly put and shall refer only to a matter which may reasonably be assumed to be within the present knowledge of the Minister. And also, that this is a supplementary question, so you have to be direct in your question to the minister. Your point, Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Point of Clarification, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

There is no such thing as a Point of Clarification. I am sorry. He is asking the Member if he could repeat question to the Minister of Health.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1054

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the question.

Clearly I would like to indicate, as well, to the House that my comment about community wellness being a state of being that we hope to achieve is not something that I just pulled out and I am asking for a personal opinion as Minster. But that was written clearly in a document provided to the Social Programs Committee as a definition of what constitutes community wellness.

And I was just trying to get clarification from the Minister, exactly what that means as it is difficult to measure, yet we are spending 2.7-million dollars...

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The document that you are referring to is not in the Chamber. It is not in the knowledge of all the Members.

It is not a tabled document so, you cannot make reference to something that is not in the knowledge of the Chair or the Members.

Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I am sorry Mr. Speaker, I am having a rough go of this one.

The question of community wellness being a state of being, I am assuming that is something that is within the Minister's responsibilities since he wrote it. He wrote the definition and so could the Minister indicate to the House how we are going to measure this community wellness we are spending millions of dollars on, in terms of the plans that are supposed to come out at the end of the day?

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, how I would measure community wellness is in fact, we would have to first of all establish a benchmark of where we would start from, the health status of the community as it stands now in relation to other communities and in relation to territorial and to national standards and further on from that, in the years following that to compare that to where we started from to see what the overall health status of the community is Mr. Speaker.

So that is how I would gauge the effect of community wellness initiatives. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you Mr. Speaker. So in effect we are asking communities, we are funding communities to provide community wellness plans that we have yet to develop the criteria for to measure. Is that correct?

Supplementary To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker as part of the overall process is to have a community action plan; direction where the community wants to go, to identify what initiatives they think are the priorities for that community. And after that is done and then we would support them with additional resources to move into taking on programs and to help them to train the human resources, to assist them to move forward and try and to develop and then implement programs that are going to, overall contribute to the overall better well-being and health of the communities, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

Further Return To Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Question 453-13(3): Definition Of Community Wellness
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Enuaraq.

Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(translation) Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

In Clyde River, we have polar bear quotas that was 45 quotas and they were reduced to 22. When they were reduced, the polar bear quotas were reduced, the GNWT started giving $32,000 for assistance to the HTA in Clyde River and I would like to ask the Minister if they will be continuing to give the $32,000 to the HTA Association in Clyde River. Thank you.

Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1055

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Minister Responsible for Resource, Wildlife and

Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1056

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you Mr. Speaker. When the quota for those particular communities were reduced because of the harsh impact that we thought it would have on the communities, we set up a compensation package to offset the impact of the reduction. Later when the quota was increased we then ceased the compensation package and converted it to community assistance package.

What has been happening now is, we know that the quota for polar bears is going to vary because we have yet to have a comprehensive management plan. The polar bears that are harvested in that area are international citizens, that is, they go across the ice to the west side of Greenland and so, they are harvested, as well, by the people of Greenland, the Greenlanders, and so, we have yet to reach agreement on a management plan at the international level.

So, until then we know that there is going to be some instability and inability to have a more stable long range management plan and ability to set a stable quota. So, having said that the quotas will change probably from year to year. In the meantime, the money that we had set aside to help the community has stopped. It does not exist any more since last winter. Since March 31st,1996. We are presently having discussion with the community to see how we can make best use of existing resources.

For instance, should we have those monies made available to other economic initiatives in the renewable resource sector or other sectors of the community of other sectors that the community may wish to expand on other than compensating just the polar bear hunters for the reduction in the quota? So, at this time the money has lapsed, as of last winter, but we are currently looking at ways, in discussions with the community, on how we can set about assisting the community in view of the reduction. Thank you.

Return To Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Question 454-13(3): Polar Bear Quotas
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1056

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1056

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I requested that the honourable Minister clarify the status of the pending transfer of housing sub-office staff from Rankin to Arviat. Mr. Speaker, yesterday it was unclear as to whether the hamlet of Arviat were aware or advised of this pending transfer. Mr. Speaker, I have since verified that the hamlet have been advised of the transfer and, therefore, some are concerned about any delay in this pending transfer.

Mr. Speaker, would the honourable Minister kindly respond in more detail to this issue so as to provide greater assurances that this transfer will, indeed, take place. Thank you.

Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1056

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1056

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as I told the member yesterday, the transfer of the two positions from Rankin to Arviat has been planned and has been a commitment by the previous Assembly and it was, and is still, my intention to follow through. The letter that was sent to the MLAs said that the transfer would take place on April 1st.

I did say yesterday, however, that because of the pending amalgamation of the departments of Public Works and Services, Transportation and the Housing Corporation, that there is some uncertainty about the structure of these departments, so, until that is clarified in the next few weeks, I cannot say for sure how and when these transfers will happen.

Return To Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Question 455-13(3): Pending Staff Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question today is with respect to the answering of the government of the Northwest Territories switchboard, and I wanted to question the appropriate minister on whether or not that function is presently being carried out by NorthwesTel?

Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister Responsible for Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, the service of this telephone switchboard operation for Yellowknife was privatized and yes, NorthwesTel was the company that won the contract.

Return To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Ms. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

I would further then like to ask the question then, Mr. Speaker, was this service acquired through public tendering?

Supplementary To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the process that was used, so I will find out and advise the member.

Further Return To Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Question 456-13(3): GNWT Switchboard
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Picco.

Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Public Works. Can the Minister inform me if contracts and Medevac flights issued by this government and borrowed in agency of this government have to adhere to the Article 24 of the Nunavut settlement area. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister Responsible for Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, medevac flights and medical services are managed by the Baffin Regional Health Board in Baffin Region and the members constituency, and I do believe that they do have to adhere the provisions of the articles 24 interim measures.

Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you Mr. Speaker. So I guess, I take that in that indeed they do have to adhere to the Article 24 because they are funded by this government. Can the Minister inform this House what rules and regulations are in place to ensure that there is no circumvention of Article 24 in the Nunavut settlement area?

Supplementary To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as the member may recall, the GNWT issued interim measures for living up to its obligations under Article 24, and these included the participation of Inuit firms in government contracting, Inuit employment and ownership. There is a monitoring process that is in place that is administered by the Department of Public Works in corporation with NTI.

Further Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1057

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister inform this house what penalties are in place to impose on boards, agencies, and departments of this government that actually circumvent Article 24 in the Nunavut settlement region?

Supplementary To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as far as I am aware, there are no penalties, there are provisions for damages to be assessed against contractors that have done projects and have promised to include participation but have not lived up to those commitments. The actual contract that the member is speaking about does come under the Baffin Regional Health Board, so I will say I can get some further details on that and get it to the member.

Further Return To Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Question 457-13(3): Medevac Flights - Article 24
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Ootes.

Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of the Financial Management Board. The other day we spoke about the number of cuts in the territories of 350 person years and that the actual losses were 180 jobs across the territories. I asked him questions on that which he is reporting back to us, but I have a question with respect to cuts in Yellowknife, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister could tell us how many Pys were cut in Yellowknife and how many actual jobs were lost in Yellowknife?

Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I had better take that question as Notice because I want to make sure I get the number accurate for my Honourable colleague. So I will take the question as notice and answer tomorrow.

Return To Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Question 458-13(3): Job Cuts In Yellowknife
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

As notice. Oral question, Mr. Henry.

Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, and it is regarding community empowerment. Yesterday in the House the Minister confirmed that there was a comprehensive review of municipal finances, and that report with recommendations, was to be presented to the Minister on April 1, 1997. The Minister also confirmed yesterday that the recommended reforms in that report are due for implementation on April 1, 1998.

Mr. Speaker, I am a little confused. The Minister tells us that much work will be done in the next few months to transfer powers and responsibilities to municipalities, yet any necessary reforms to municipal financing structures and arrangements may not occur for another 18 months.

Can the Minister explain to this House, why in this vital area of ensuring that the municipal governments' financing structures are adequately prepared for taking over the important responsibilities under community empowerment are coming after the fact. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Thompson.

Return To Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take that as notice.

Return To Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Question 459-13(3): Community Empowerment
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Oral question, Mr. Roland.

Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1058

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My

question is directed to the Minister of Justice. I would like to know when was conditional sentencing brought into effect within the system? Thank you.

Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, conditional sentencing came into effect with Bill C-41 on September 3 of this year, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, supplementary Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister define for us the exact meaning of "conditional sentencing". Is it the alternative form or similar to the program? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, conditional sentencing is the custodial sentence of less than two years, that is to be served in the community, if the judge deems fit to sentence an individual in that manner. There is also some flexibility in that he can sentence individuals to treatment programs as well, during that time period. Basically, the conditions that are imposed on the individual are very similar to probation where they would have to be supervised in the community and be required to report accordingly to those types of individuals. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister inform us who controls the programs that are accepted in this conditional sentencing program? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the programs would have to be approved by the jurisdiction in which the individual is serving the sentence, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question, supplementary, Mr. Roland. That is your final.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So is the Minister saying that the community involved in the area, the community would develop the program that is available to the Courts, or does it have to be approved by the Department? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not positive on the approval process for this, so I will find that out and advise the Member accordingly. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Question 460-13(3): Conditional Sentencing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, Mr. Ningark.

Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1059

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a letter here from Gjoa Haven Development Corporation written to Mr. Arlooktoo, on October 2, 1996. The letter is the offer to purchase any available GNWT units, or duplexes, to maintain in these homes to the GNWT employees.

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with the spirit of this Government, in the area of community empowerment, in keeping with the spirit of this Government to ensure that in the community within the jurisdiction, is self-sufficient, and any business within the small community will prosper, thereby creating jobs for people. My question to the Honourable Minister of Finance is, is the Minister willing to do business with the Gjoa Haven Development Corporation? Thank you.

Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government of the Northwest Territories would only be too happy to do business with the Gjoa Haven Development Corporation, as the Committee so sees fit. Thank you.

Return To Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the Honourable Minister. Supplementary is, how soon will the Government proceed to do business with Gjoa Haven? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 461-13(3):doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As soon as we concluded the house sales to the staff who are living in them, and as I said yesterday, we intend to extend the closing date. I believe yesterday in my statement I did say October, I was in error, in fact, November 30th, we will extend our closing date to, and that gives me the chance to give my plug for the error yesterday.

Subject to the tenants not purchasing the houses, we will then work out an arrangement, community by community, as to how we can: 1) maintain houses, 2) ensure that the houses are designated for staff that are required there, teachers, and others, and more importantly ensure that it is affordable. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 461-13(3):doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Question 461-13(3): Doing Business With The Gjoa Haven Development Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Finance. Can the Minister of Finance clearly indicate to me the number of positions that have been cut and are those majority of jobs that belong to Inuit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate this opportunity to answer that question today from my honourable colleague. I know it is a concern that has been expressed out there by a number of leaders, understandably so. I want to, first of all, say that my numbers tell me that as of to date, there are somewhere in the region of 207 positions of actual layoff across the framework, out of that, 70-71 have been aboriginal, which is approximately 34%. Thank you.

Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(translation) Can the Minister indicate how many jobs in Nunavut have been cut as of this date.

Supplementary To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1060

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. If my memory serves me correct, and I always like to qualify it, because I am talking numbers, and I know how important it is. I believe it is somewhere in the region of about 56 positions that have been cut in Nunavut at this time.

Further Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister also indicate how many dollars they have saved by way of job cutbacks in this area. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Well, the overall objective when we initially started this drive towards reducing the deficit is that across the total territorial framework we were looking for somewhere in the region of between 25 and 30-million dollars.

I do not have the actual number saved to date, but something like that is the objective we are trying to accomplish over the previous 12 months and the next 12 months. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Question 462-13(3): Job Cuts Affecting Inuit
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, Mr. Steen.

Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker my question is addressed to the Minister Responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Speaker, on May 8, in Committee of the Whole I requested or I brought to the attention of the Minister the conditions of the portable buildings that were being used for schools in Tuktoyaktuk.

I asked the Minister, at that time, if he could address the deplorable condition of those buildings and in response, Mr. Speaker, he said that, this is from the Hansard from the 8th, "Our information is that the building has been somewhat upgraded and was not in a condemned state. We will have to check into that and if it is then deal with that situation."

Mr. Speaker, since that time, I believe it was May 13th, I received a Session Briefing Note from the Minister, which I thank him for and in there he says that according to the school staff, the school staff note the quality of the building was minor problems with the facility and school staff note that quality and fix and finishes on cabinet and doors is not good, repairs have since been made.

My question, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister is why did his department, on July 26th, 10 days before school was to start, advise the principal of Mangilaluk School that these two portable buildings were condemned? I would llike to ask the Minister why did he condemn a perfectly good building that just needed minor repairs.

Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister Responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1061

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that it was the department's decision that the building would be condemned. If, in fact, the building is condemned it would have been by someone external such as a Fire Marshall, or a building inspector. That is not something that the department could determine.

Mr. Speaker the Beaufort Divisional Education Council had spent $116,000 to upgrade these two buildings and had approached the department to request funds in the amount of $40,000 of the $80,000 that was foreseen as necessary to bring the buildings up to standard. Shortly after we got that request at the department, the Board itself contacted the department and said that they had decided they did not want to proceed with the proposed renovations to the buildings.

I am not sure why the Board decided to stop with those repairs but it was a Board decision. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, according to the information I received the Principal stated that on July 26th she was advised the building was condemned and she was to move the school classrooms from those buildings into Mangilaluk School building, which is only built to hold kindergarten to grade nine. She was advised that she would have to find space for these other three classrooms in that building, because the portables were condemned.

I asked the principal as to who condemned the building but she could not confirm that, but, the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that at the present time Mangilaluk School, designed for kindergarten to grade nine, is, in fact, being used to hold students up to grade twelve. It is causing a serious overcrowding in the classrooms, as well as, other problems mixing high school students with lower grade students.

Now, my question to the Minister is, is it the responsibility of the Department of Education and him, in particular, as Minister, to ensure that communities have the proper facilities to supply and teachers to supply education service and properly teach the children?

Supplementary To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, ultimately it is the responsibility of this government and my ministry to ensure that education needs of students across the territories can be met. We work in partnership with the local education authorities, the divisional education councils - what we used to call the divisional boards of education. As I said, the decision not to continue with the repairs to the portable classrooms was made by the divisional education council.

I do not know the reasons for their decision. I should point out that the Mangilaluk school is built to hold 330 students and, at this point in time, it is at eighty-two percent utilization, so the member is right. It is getting to a point where it is in need of an addition, and it is in our capital plan to see that addition in Tuk within the next couple of years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise the House and possibly, the community, whether the building is condemned or not? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the best of my knowledge the building is not condemned however, I will ask my staff to investigate and report to the member no later than tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Question 463-13(3): Condemned School Buildings
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.

Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1062

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I mentioned that the situation of Arctic Bay community freezer is a lesson for us all in planning community empowerment. I raised this issue in May of this year, that, at the time when the freezer was critical in proper storage of muktuk

and caribou used in inter-community trade with communities.

The problems have continued throughout the summer and now we have another crisis. I wish to ask the Minister of Public Works and Services, honourable Goo Arlooktoo, if he can explain what his department has done to help the people of Arctic Bay solve this freezer problem since last May? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Deputy Premier, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was shocked at the tone of the statement made by the member earlier as up until now I believe that I have been working closely with the member to figure out a solution to the problem.

The first time I heard of the troubles at Arctic Bay HTA were having with their community freezer was this spring. Another time a Member was asking the Department to build a new community freezer, and of course, there was no money at the time and there is no money now to build another freezer. Just last week the community suggested that, rather than a whole new freezer, that a mechanical part, a compressor, in fact, was needed to fix the problem and I agreed to work closely through the Member to find the resources, although we do not have that kind of resources within the Department of Public Works, I agreed to work with him. I will just say now that I will try.

Return To Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions supplementary, Mr. Barnabas.

Supplementary To Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Yes, I know that I am working with my colleagues, Mr. Arlooktoo. I will take his response and I will work with him again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Question 464-13(3): Solving Freezer Problem In Arctic Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Okay, Mr. Barnabas. Oral questions, Mr. Krutko.

Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, in regards to the whole question about the seniors' loss of fuel subsidy. The Minister stated that individuals who are in dire straits or need heat because their place might freeze up to go to the Social Services office and see if they can fill out an application in regards to the Income Support Program.

What is the criteria for that program, exactly, what is the ratio of your income? Do they consider individuals who may have a household who are taking care of two or three grandchildren, is that taken into account when they do their assessment?

Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, individual family circumstances are taken into account. It may be a situation where, if grandchildren are in the house, it may be necessary to show custom adoption to ensure that there is some recognition of the need for the additional support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1063

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, in regards to the whole question of subsidies, what is the wage criteria? In the subsidy you are saying that it should be $12,000 here for a single person. So, basically, say an individual who is raising a grandchild has their own unit, what is the base income that we are talking about there?

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker for the fuel subsidy, an individual with a child would be considered a single person. So the income threshold would be around the $12,000 mark that the Member has mentioned. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What is the cost of the support program as it stands to date? How much money is in the support program to deliver that program that the Department is responsible for? How much money is in that program?

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the total Income Support Program funds within the Department total approximately 36 million dollars. In the fuel subsidy portion of the income support program there would be approximately 400 to 450 thousand dollars. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker, is in regards to the whole question of the people who have been, do not want to say blacklisted, but basically denied the opportunity to receive the fuel subsidy are the same people who basically were told that these people will be eliminated. So in order for these people to get back on and get the subsidy, is there some sort of appeal tribunal in communities where people can go if they are not satisfied with the decision of an individual, say a social worker or what not, that they can go to some community board or agency to resolve this conflict?

Supplementary To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that this is a situation where the social assistance appeal board would hear an appeal from a decision. The income criteria are fairly straightforward so either the person qualifies for the program or they do not. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Question 465-13(3): Senior's Fuel Subsidy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, Mr. Picco.

Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, an important conference on contaminants is under way in Iqaluit. At that conference, we have heard that funding for scientific work on the study of contaminants is running out. Can the Minister for the Environment tell this House what, if anything, is the Government of the Northwest Territories trying to do to make sure that this needed funding for scientific projects, either Federally, Territorially, or Provincially, is kept in place. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1064

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Federal Government, a number of years ago, established through Federal legislation a Polar Commission, and one of the jobs of this Commission was to do the necessary work and lobby to make sure that the Federal Government developed a very clear policy on polar and arctic research. Further, that

the Federal Government would take a systematic approach to declaring publicly what type of financial commitments it would make to a co-ordinated, well thought out approach to arctic and polar research in Canada. That is, to tell the rest of Canada to tell the rest of Canada what is their policy on arctic and polar research, which comprises about one third the physical body of Canada, and to tell the rest of Canada how much money they are going to spend. Of the billions of dollars that they spend on research every year in Canada, how much of it was going to be allocated specifically to the arctic, and further that the polar research was to go about trying to push the Federal Government to develop a co-ordinated mechanism so that of the twenty or so odd Departments and agencies that currently have money to spend on arctic and polar research, to be able to co-ordinate that with each other. Also to show the Canadian public and the people of the North how much each of them have in their little budgets and particularly now, when there are cutbacks, there is a danger that we may find out, before we find out how much they have, that it would be cut.

This has been the policy, the statement, the position that I have taken as a Minister in addressing the conference yesterday, by teleconference, that I support the role that the Polar Commission is playing, to push the Federal Government to develop a National policy, to work towards a long term national commitment to funding, in an organized way, in partnership with Northern and Aboriginal people. That is, to give Northern and Aboriginal people a sizeable portion of the annual financial commitment that they make towards research they do in the north and do it in a coordinated way with people of the north. Thank you.

Return To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the conference has heard that contaminants are being found in greater numbers in the food chain, especially in the eastern arctic. Will the minister be reviewing the findings of the conference to develop a response to these concerns for the residents of the Northwest Territory. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, Mr. Speaker. There is a concern on the part of this government on the concern that we have to find ways to get the federal government to respond to this international problem of arctic contaminants. That it has a..it is international, that the federal government needs to move decisively with our support and encouragement to develop the federal policy on research in the arctic on actions that we take in Canada to reduce whatever contribution we make to arctic contamination. And to give out clear policies and direction for the federal government to advance to other circumpolar countries and to advance to the newly established arctic council so that we are represented and Canada does take the lead in taking action, responsible action to reduce our own contribution to the increase of arctic contaminants and to show example by giving specific suggestions, recommendations to our fellow circumpolar countries on how to deal with this problem, and now and rather than wait for a point when it becomes perhaps irreversible. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Question 466-13(3): Funding For Study Of Contaminants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral question, Mr. Henry.

Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1065

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. The department of Education provides financial assistance to students seeking post secondary education through various programs in the forms of student

grants, loans, and student financial assistance. Concerns have been brought to my attention that there are a number of students who receive assistance through the Department of Education and have taken a variety of different programs without actually working in one prior to receiving funding to take another.

This government has provided financial assistance for students who have never worked in that field but have applied for and received further financial assistance in another field. There did not appear to be any obligation to contribute to their education in the work force. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Are there any regulations in place restricting a student from obtaining financial support for more than one program, and if so, can he elaborate on the departments criteria for such. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Two questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the criteria for receiving student assistance are basically that there is a total lifetime limit for how much in loans a student can accumulate and whether it be a grant or a loan, there is a requirement that the student have successfully completed, I believe, two- thirds of the courses in the previous year. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Okay, oral questions supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Minister referred to a total amount that is obtainable under these programs. Is there a particular time period in between the taking of one course and take additional courses in another field. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Like student financial assistance programs across Canada, there is not a requirement that a student follow only one path. I think there is a recognition that some students decide to change their career path part way through post-secondary education and our system is compatible with those across Canada which allow that to take place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Question 467-13(3): Student Funding For Multiple Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1066

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, question period is now over. Item 7, Written Questions. Written questions. Item 8, Returns to Written Questions. Returns to Written Questions. Item 9, Replies to Opening Address. Replies to Opening Address. Item 10, Petitions. Petitions. Item 11, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Item 12, Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills. Item 13, Tabling of Documents, Mr. Erasmus.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1066

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a report, Tabled Document 89-13(3), that was prepared by the Ad Hoc Working Group on the Implementation of Access to Information and Protection of Privacy.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1066

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents, Ms. Thompson.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1066

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table four documents:

- Community Empowerment: Doing Business Differently, Tabled Document No. 90-13(3)

- Community Empowerment: A New Partnership, Municipal and Community Affairs, October 19, 1996, Tabled Document 91-13(3)

- Resolutions from Kivallik Leadership Meetings, Tabled Document 92-13(3), September 1996

- Resolutions from Baffin Leadership Meeting, June 1996, Tabled Document 93-13(3)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of Documents, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 94-13(3),

Speaking Notes for Mr. Kakfwi to the Canadian Polar Commission Conference on Contaminants, the Environment and Human Health in the Arctic.

This is currently going on in Iqaluit. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of Documents, Mr. Todd.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document Tabled Document 95-13(3),

The Interim Financial Report of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the Year Ending March 31, 1996.

Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of Documents, Mr. Ningark.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document No. 96-13(3):

•A letter from Gjoa Haven Development Corporation to The Honourable Arlooktoo, expressing the desire of the Corporation to purchase any available Government units.

Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of Documents. Are there further Tabling of Documents. Notices of Motion, Mr. Picco.

Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1067

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice on Monday, October 14, 1996, I will move the following motion:

Mr. Speaker, I will be seeking unanimous consent at the appropriate time to move this motion today.

Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Notices of Motion. Notices of Motion, Ms. Thompson.

Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1067

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, October 14, 1996, I will move the following motion:

NOW, THEREFORE I MOVE, SECONDED BY THE HONOURABLE MEMBER FOR KITIMEOT, THAT TABLED DOCUMENTS #90-13(3) COMMUNITY EMPOWERMENT:

DOING BUSINESS DIFFERENTLY AND TABLED DOCUMENT #91-13(3) COMMUNITY EMPOWERMENT: A NEW PARTNERSHIP, BE MOVED INTO THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FOR DISCUSSION AS THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS ON TUESDAY, OCTOBER 15, 1996.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be seeking unanimous consent to deal with my motion today. Thank you.

Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. That is 14 Notices of Motion. Notices of Motion. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills, Mr. Todd.

Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

Page 1067

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, October 14, 1996, I will move that Bill 20 Supplementary Appropriate Act #1, 1996-97, will be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

Page 1067

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Notices of motions for the first reading of

bills, motions. Motion 19. Mr. Krutko.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable member from Iqaluit, that the tabled document 83-13(3) entitled "Information on the Tl'oondih Healing Camp" be moved into Committee of the Whole for discussion.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion, questions being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Motions, Mrs. Thompson.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with the motion I gave notice of earlier today.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The member for Aivilik is seeking unanimous consent to deal with this motion today. Do we have any nays? There are no nays, you have unanimous consent, Mrs. Thompson. Proceed with your motion.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Whereas the documents "Community Empowerment - Doing Business Differently" and "Community Empowerment - A New Partnership" has been tabled in this House it is in the interests of the public for these documents to be discussed by the Legislature.

Now, therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Kitikmeot, that tabled documents 90-13(3) "Community Empowerment - Doing Business Differently", and tabled document 91-13(3) "Community Empowerment - A New Partnership" be moved into the Committee of the Whole for discussion as the first item of business on Tuesday, October 15th, 1996.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion, questions been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried and accordingly tabled documents 90-13(3) and 91-13(3) will be moved into Committee of the Whole for today. I am sorry, will be the first item of business on Tuesday, October 15th, 1996.

Motions, Mr. Picco.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to proceed with my motion of the ad hoc working group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. The member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent to deal with his motion today. Do we have any nays? There are no nays, proceed, Mr. Picco.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Nunakput, that the Tabled Document 89-13(3) "The Report of the Ad Hoc Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy", be moved into the committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1068

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Questions being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried and accordingly Tabled Document 89-13(3) will be moved into committee of the whole for today.

Motions, motions. First reading of bills, first reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters; Tabling Document 1-13(3), Ministers Statement 82-13(3), Bill 19, Tabled Document 89-13(3) and 83-13(3) with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1068

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to call this committee to order.

Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. We have a number of items here, Tabled Document 83-13(3) and 89-13(3), Tabled Document 1-13(3); "Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation"; Ministers' Statement 82-13(3), "Premier's Sessional Speech"; Bill 19, "Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act". This is a new Bill. What is the wish of the Committee?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1069

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I would recommend that we take Bill 19, "Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act" as the first item on the agenda followed by Tabled Document 89-13(3), "Report of Access to Information and Protection of Privacy" in that order.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1069

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Okay I was not paying attention. I believe you want to..Table Document..Bill 19 first...

Do we agree with the Member? Do we have to concur this? To deal with two items in that order? What do you wish to do, do you wish to take a break now and then come back? We will take about 15. Okay? We will take a break.

--- SHORT RECESS

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1069

The Chair John Ningark

Before we took a break we decided we would deal with Bill 19, Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act and the report of the Ad Hoc Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, in that order.

We are now in reviewing Bill 19. The Honourable Minister Ng. Do you have any opening remarks for the committee? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1069

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act before the committee of the whole today is one of the initial steps required to prepare for the first elections for the Nunavut legislative assembly and the new western territorial legislature.

Mr. Chairman, independent boundaries commissions are used in Canada to assist legislatures in determining their electoral district boundaries. The North is facing a process that has not been undertaken since 1905 when the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba were created from the then Northwest Territories. The division of the Northwest Territories on April 1, 1999 will require two legislatures with the number of elected members and the electoral district boundaries yet to be determined. Electoral Boundaries Commissions will make recommendations to assist in the determination of these fundamental questions.

Mr. Chairman, the bill provides the framework for the establishment of two electoral boundaries commissions. One being the Northwest Territories Electoral Boundaries Commission, which will review the existing electoral boundaries for the western Northwest Territories. The second being the Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission, which will review the existing boundaries in that part of the Northwest Territories that will comprise Nunavut.

Each commission will conduct public hearings in the course of its review, and will at the conclusion of its review, prepare a report for submission to the speaker. Because of the provisions of the Nunavut Act regarding the first Nunavut election, the Nunavut Boundaries Commission report will also be forwarded to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs after the Legislative Assembly completes its consideration.

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated earlier, the bill provides the legal framework to establish two boundaries commissions. The appointment of the commission members and the guidelines for considering the number of seats in each legislature and the criteria for the work of the commissions will come later by formal resolution of the legislative assembly.

Mr. Chairman, this is one of those bills that is the responsibility of the legislative assembly as a whole to consider, and I along with officials will be pleased to answer questions as we go through this bill clause by clause. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Minister. In keeping with a tradition, before I open the floor for general comment, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he wishes to bring in the witnesses.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the consent of the committee that Mr. Minister will bring in the witnesses?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Agreed, thank you. Please proceed to bring in the witnesses. Thank you. We are dealing with Bill 19, Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act. Mr. Minister, for the record would you please introduce the witnesses to the committee?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, to my right is Mr. Mark Aitken, director of legislation, Department of Justice. To my left, Mr. David Hamilton, Clerk of the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome, witnesses to the committee. The floor is open for general comments on the Bill 19. Are there any general comments from the membership? Do you want to go clause by clause? Thank you. Bill 19, Electoral Boundaries Commissions Act, part one. Clause one, agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause two.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause three.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause four of Bill 19. Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause five. Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Agreed. Thank you. Clause 6?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 7?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 8 of Bill 19. Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 9?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Oh, sorry, clause 11?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

I have not called a clause 11 yet.

Clause 10?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 11? Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Could we get an explanation of this clause?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister would you please explain clause 11 for the Member. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman this clause would allow the commission to make its report based on guidelines that the Legislative Assembly gave direction to the commission to undertake such as the number of seats for each Legislature as one of the main items Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11? Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1070

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Speaker.

On that clause 11, (a) and (b) it indicates the different types of considerations that have to be taken when the commission will be looking at the different areas, boundaries they are going to implement. Can we get an explanation of why these are being taken into consideration?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On paragraph (a) and (b), Mr. Minister.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman I will ask Mr. Aitken to answer that.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Aitken.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Aitken

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Is Mr. Erasmus asking why geographic and demographic considerations, referred to in paragraph (a) are being taken into account or why all the considerations from (a) to (f) are being taken into account? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11? Do we agree? Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I indicated clauses (a) and (b) specifically.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Sorry. I will refer the question to Mr. Aitken, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Aitken.

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Aitken

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

These provisions are fairly standard in these types of acts. The other act we looked at, a P.E.I. act has a similar provision and also this is a provision that is found in the existing Electoral District Boundaries Commission Act.

What this is intended to do is to allow the commission to do is to look at changes in population among the various ridings of the western part of the Northwest Territories and possibly to make adjustment to boundaries based on that.

An example could be what happened when the riding of Pine Point was eliminated as a result of the movement of the population out of Pine Point. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11? Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I am not being specific enough.

A lot people think that one man, one vote or one person, one vote means that each riding has to have the exact same amount of people in it and I am assuming that these two clauses which indicate that geographic, demographic considerations including the sparsity, density, or rate of growth of the population and the accessibility, size or shape of any part of the territory, so these are obviously saying that it is not really the size of the population then. In each constituency that has to be taken into consideration. So I would like an explanation as to why these other things have to be taken into consideration. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Aitken.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Aitken

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I do not think the inclusion of paragraphs (a) and (b) are sending a message that ridings have to have the same populations, and some comfort can be taken from the fact that paragraphs (a) and (b) are substantively identical to paragraphs 9(a) and (b) of the existing Electoral District Boundaries Act. Under the authority of this act, the last electoral boundaries commission made its recommendations to the Legislative Assembly and did not recommend that all electoral districts would have to have the same population. So the presence of similar, if not identical, wording in the present bill would seem to indicate that similar considerations can be taken into effect for the future work of the commission. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Clause 11, Mr.

Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, maybe there is too much noise in here. What I said was that a lot of people out there in the Northwest Territories think that you have to have the same population base in each riding. But this indicates that you have to take all these other considerations. You have to consider these things as well as population.

To be specific, are there any case laws out there that the courts have decided that you do not have to have ridings that are exactly the same with population, that the populations of the ridings can be different?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Aitken.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Aitken

Thank you Mr. Chairman, I cannot recall the name, but there is a case that has been delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada that specifically makes reference to an exemption for northern ridings. The law clerk may have more information about the name of that case. I do not have it at my immediate disposal. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Ms. MacPherson do you want to explain the details of what the Honourable Member is asking.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Macpherson

Thank you Mr. Chairman, like Mr. Aitken I do not remember the name of the case, but what is clear is that as Mr. Erasmus has pointed out, variations in the size of electoral districts is clearly permitted under the Canadian charter, not withstanding the concept of one person, one vote, that the courts have recognized that in certain instances more particularly in northern and rural ridings that a discrepancy in the size of the riding may be required to compensate for the large geographic area of the riding that the member has to serve.

It is very different being a member for four or five communities than it is being a member for one community, and it places different strains on members. The courts have recognized that there are circumstances where it is appropriate to deviate from the concept of one person, one vote that is protected under the charter. I hope that addresses some of the concerns raised by the member.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11. Before I recognize our next speaker, I would like to recognize parents and families from Yellowknife. Welcome.

-- Applause

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to the boundaries and taking into account certain conditions, have you looked at the possibility of considered settlement regions in regards to their description of their settlement areas, as a possibility of looking at using those boundary lines as geographical lines for electoral districts? Has that been taken into consideration?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that can be taken into consideration by the Electoral Boundaries Commissions under 11(b), there, the diversity of interests of inhabitants of any part of the territory, could give consideration to that factor, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, clause 11, Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Because I would like to maybe just to make the wording a little more clear, clearly stipulate that settlement regions, as defined in land claim agreements, which they are legally defined, they are surveyed boundaries which they are defined in land claim agreements, so, they are legally registered as it states to date, so, if they could maybe, make an additional to that to add that in there, to clearly state that. Thank

you, Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, certainly that could be given consideration, actually we could go one step further. When the guidelines are given to the commission by this Legislative Assembly, they could specify at that time to take into consideration land claims settlement areas, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Sorry, Mr. Chairman, I was going to add, under section 11(e) of this act, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Could the Minister ensure me that you will make every effort to make sure that is there when it comes forward to this House for our acceptance. If they could attempt to get it in there prior to coming to this House for approval.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the guidelines and criteria have to be approved and developed by this House, at that time all members will have input into development of those criteria for the Boundaries Commission, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 11, bill 19. We have Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Evaloarjuk. Mr. Miltenberger, on clause 11, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation.) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to talk on 11. I have a question. While we are dealing with electoral boundaries what are we discussing, it does not really state how many members there will be in the government of Nunavut but perhaps, there are twenty-seven communities in the Nunavut area, so, some of the members will, if there are twenty members in that Legislation, perhaps they will have to take on more responsibility, some of the members and will have to consider these issues later on.

In looking at some communities there are people that are related to one another from different communities who are, for instance, Hall Beach and Igloolik, Repulse Bay and also, Sanikiluaq. It is a community that is out of the way and I just wanted to clarify how many members there would be in the legislation. Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Your question has to do with D on 11, Mr. Minister.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman, this Act is just to allow for the establishment of the Electoral Boundaries Commissions. Later on, when the terms of reference and the guidelines and criteria are given to the Electoral Boundaries Commission based on direction from this Legislative Assembly, at that time there will be a range of seats, or it could be a specific number of seats that they are asked to make recommendations on for both the Western Territory and the Nunavut Territory, depending on how Constitutional talks work out in the West, and depending on how the Nunavut Implementation Commission recommendations are considered for the Nunavut area, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

... (inaudible) ...

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Clause 11, agreed? Thank you. Clause 12 of Bill 19.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Part 2, Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission, Clause 13.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 14.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 15.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 16 of Bill 19. Agreed?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 17.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 18.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 19 of Bill 19.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 20.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 21.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 22.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 23. Mr. Rabesca?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Rabesca North Slave

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to, with the clause that we just ... (inaudible) ... on 11 and back on 23 again, here there is a definition regarding on C of 23, the means of communication among various parts of Nunavut, I wonder what kinds of communications are we looking at amongst the Nunavut area, and the other one back on 11 it says the Territories. What part of the Territories are we looking at, back on clause 11?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree. Clause 23, Subsection C, Mr. Minister.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this would have to take into consideration service areas as far as existing communications lines within those electoral areas, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Clause 23. Do we agree? Okay. Do we agree? Thank you. Clause 24.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 25.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 26.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Bill as a whole? Agreed? Does the Committee agree that Bill 19 is ready for third reading? Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Bill 19 is now ready for third reading. I would like to thank the honourable Minister and his witnesses for appearing before the committee.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the Committee agree that we would be dealing with the Tabled Document 89-13(3), "The Report on the Ad Hoc Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy"? The chair would like to recognize the chairperson of the Government Operation, Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to provide the "Report of the Ad Hoc Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy."

During the Twelfth Assembly an Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act was passed but did not come into force. The Thirteenth Assembly needed to make decision about how it should be implemented. An ad hoc working group was established to review the act and to determine the most appropriate method of dealing with access to information and protection of privacy.

Chaired by Mr. Steen, Member for Nunakput, the working group also included two members of the Standing Committee, Mr. Picco and Mr. Miltenberger, and two members of Cabinet, Mrs. Thompson and Mr. Dent.

The working group has reported to Cabinet and the Standing Committee on Government Operations on its work. The report stresses the importance of maintaining the spirit and intent of the legislation. It has provided recommendations which will facilitate the continuation of our access to information when two new Territories come into place on April 1st, 1999 and simplify the internal system for implementing this act.

Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Government Operations supports the recommendations in the report and two members of the sub-committee, the working group, will now go through the recommendation, Mr. Steen and Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, the chair now would like to recognize the chairman of the ad hoc working group, Mr. Steen.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act was passed by the Twelfth Legislative Assembly in 1994. The act is not currently enforced. Under the legislation it must come into force no later than December 1st, 1996.

The act provides the public with the right to ask for information held by the government subject to specific and limited exceptions and establishes a regime for access to information and protection of privacy. The act also allows individuals to collect personal information held by the government.

In providing access the act protects the rights of third parties who may be affected by the release of information. The act provides for the appointment of an Information and Privacy Commissioner to hold office for a term of five years.

In order to make an informed decision, the working group reviewed the following:

- the current Act;

- the current access legislation and practices across Canada;

- inter-jurisdictional information on access;

- Commissioner offices; and

- options for dealing with access to information based on extensive previous work and consultations done on access.

The current act provides steps for accessing information which protects the privacy rights of third parties. The process for access to information under the act is as follows. A person would make a written request for information to the government department or agency they believe have the information. The public body will make every reasonable effort to respond to the application openly, accurately, completely, and without delay. The public body has thirty days to provide the requested information, unless the time limit is extended or the information request is transferred to another public body. Depending on what is being requested, there are three scenarios. A public body must provide information, a public body must refuse a request, or a public body has the discretion to disclose or not disclose the information being requested. If the public body provides information, a processing fee could be charged. If the public body does not disclose the information, the applicant can apply to the Information and Privacy Commissioner within thirty days, appealing the decision. The Information and Privacy Commissioner will review the public body's decision, prepare a report with recommendations, and the reasons for the recommendations, and send the report to the public body and the applicant. Within thirty days of receiving the report, the public body must decide whether or not to follow the Information and Privacy Commissioner's recommendations, and must give written notice of this decision to the Information and Privacy Commissioner and the applicants. If the public body does not follow the Information and Privacy Commissioner's recommendation, the applicant may appeal to the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. If a third party is involved, they are notified about the request and given a chance to request that information not being released.

Using the process using similar to the one outlined above, individuals are given the right to access information about themselves, and to request a correction of inaccurate personal information. The working group considered six different options for providing access to information and protection of privacy:

1. Maintain status quo;

2. Delay coming into force of the act;

3. Repeal the act;

4. Amend the act to provide a simpler and more affordable for access to information and protection of privacy;

5. Issue policy guidelines to provide access to information and protection of privacy; and

6. Combine the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner with the Office of the Language Commissioner and, if legislated, the Office of the Ombudsman.

The working group felt the original rationale for the act still existed, and there was a need for an Access to Information and Protection of Privacy regime to be put in place by December 31, 1996. For this reason, the working group rejected the options for delaying or repealing the act. The option of providing guidelines rather than legislation was also rejected. Members felt guidelines would not accomplish the intent of the act. Guidelines would also not give the same level of certainty that access and protection to privacy were being provided consistently. This left only two options specific to the act, implement the act as it stands, or amend the act.

The final option, which dealt with combining the offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioner with other offices; the legislative officer; for example, the Languages Commissioner and Conflict of Interest Commissioner, was addressed as a separate issue from the implementation of the act.

In reviewing the two final options, Members considered the potential use of the act. It is possible that there will be an inflated number of access requests in the first year, followed by a drop to a more consistent number of requests in succeeding years. However, based on the experiences of other jurisdictions, it is likely that there will be an average of between 70 and 90 requests each year with less than half of these being appealed to the Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Members agreed that there needed to be a process in place to address requests, but it would not have to be as complex as a process in one of the larger provinces where thousands of requests are received annually.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

There is no quorum, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I will ring the bell. Thank you. Mr. Steen, please proceed with your report.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Overall, the working group agreed with the intent of the legislation. It felt it must proceed on schedule with implementation by December 31, 1996. The primary concern the working group has with the act is directly related to the impact of division and this legislation and any regime established under this act. Members believe it is crucial that the act be flexible enough to allow each new territory to implement access to information in a way which is consistent with their goals and objectives.

The working group did not want specific sections of the current legislation tying the hands of future governments. It is important when presenting the proposed amendment that it is clear, the rights to access and privacy have been protected. What we are proposing is the reduce the potential difficulties for both Territories on April 1, 1999, if the legislation were enacted as originally written.

The amendment should provide the access to information and protection of privacy as originally intended as the most practical way with a focus on ensuring people can get the information they need.

Mr. Chairman, I move that this Committee recommends that in view of the current environment of fiscal restraint, The Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act be implemented with costs limited to those costs necessary to meet the requirements of the Act.

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Page 1077

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, the motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour of the motion signify down, please. Opposed? The motion is carried. Thank you, Mr. Steen. The Chair will now recognize Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you. Good afternoon, Committee of the Whole. As a result of their concern about division the Working Group is recommending two amendments to the Access to Information Act. The revision preserve the integrity and intent of the Act while providing the flexibility for the two new Governments to determine their own direction in 1999.

Proposed amendment #1: Revise the section dealing with the appointment of an Information and Privacy Commissioner. The current Act allows only for the appointment of the Commissioner for a five year term. Members believe that this does not take into account division and the need for flexibility to allow the new legislatures to make decisions about their access and privacy regimes.

The proposed amendment to the Act would allow for the first Commissioner to be appointed to a term not extending past March 31, 1999. Members are particularly interested in the model used in Saskatchewan for hiring an Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Rather than hiring a full-time Commissioner, Saskatchewan uses a contract Commissioner. At the present time this person is a lawyer who provides the service out of his law office. Compensation is based on the assumption that this is a position that would take one-third of the Commissioner's time. For this year the total budgeted cost for the Saskatchewan Commissioner is $81,000.

After reviewing this arrangement in detail the Working Group strongly supported this contracting out arrangement with an established lawyer as the most favourable arrangement for the first Information and Privacy Commissioner for the Northwest Territories. With the Act not coming into force until December 31, 1996, the timelines for request and appeals allow for a slight delay in appointing a Commissioner. It may be possible for the appointment to take effect as late as April 1, 1997.

Recommendation #2: I move that this Committee recommends that the Act be amended to allow for the appointment of a contract Information and Privacy Commissioner with the term to end by March 31, 1999.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1077

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have some concern with respect, not to the contracting out of the position of Privacy Commission, but I have two concerns here. It states here that the arrangement with an established lawyer. I am of the feeling that we should not put into the Act and limit the occupation of the individual that is to be the Commissioner. Let me explain that, it should be the attributes of the individual that should be considered, not a designation of a title. The attributes

of a Privacy Commissioner, to me, would be someone who has investigative experience, administrative tribunal experience, conflict resolution skills, independency and impartiality, free of government and political association, and decision and arbitrating writing experience. That does not put it into the narrow category of a lawyer. There are many other occupations who could fulfil this position, and I cannot support a bill that would recommend that it be pertained to a lawyer or a law firm. A law firm may have dependency on other contracts in the government, et cetera.

The second item I wish to being attention to is, effect as late as April 1, 1997 of the appointment. I think, to me, it is ultimately important that the privacy commissioner also take part in any training throughout the government that needs to take place. Otherwise, there will be a tremendous backlog of cases because the moment the bill comes into effect, you are going to see the flow of requests for access to information. Departmental staff need to be trained and geared up to take care of those particular problems. I think the privacy commissioner needs to take part in that.

Those are my two areas of concern, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. Down. Opposed? Recommendation two is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Picco, please proceed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, recommendation number three.

Recommendation #3

I MOVE that this Committee recommends that the Legislative Assembly adopt the Saskatchewan model for an Information and Privacy Commissioner.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1078

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

This is the motion that I want to draw attention to. In the preamble, it states that the model for Saskatchewan that lawyers used in this particular motion, it states recommendation three to adopt the Saskatchewan model, implying that the position of privacy commissioner needs to be a lawyer. Again, I want to emphasize that I cannot support the bill if it restricts it to a lawyer or a law firm to be the privacy commissioner. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. Down. Against. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Henry.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

I was voting against the motion, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your vote was counted. Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

The proposed amendment number two eliminates the need for a detailed file directory. There are two parts to a directory currently suggested in the act. A list of all public bodies with the names and addresses of the contact positions and a description of the categories of records or files each public body is responsible for. Developing and maintaining a directory of files is a very costly and time-consuming process. Members had a concern about creating a records management system which would become obsolete in less than three years. What will be important within departments will not be an extensive file tracking system, but knowledge of where the various files are.

What will be important to the public will be making the request in the right public body or knowing it will be quickly passed along to the correct public body. Sections 5, 11 and 12 of the act ensure that if a request is submitted, to the wrong public body, they have an obligation to ensure it gets to the right place as quickly as possible. The requirements for a list of departmental contacts will remain in the act.

Recommendation #4

I MOVE that this Committee recommends that the act be amended to remove the requirement that the directory contain a general description of the categories of records in the custody or under the control of each public body.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1079

The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour. Thank you. Down. Opposed. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Carry on, Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you.

Recommendation #5

I MOVE that this Committee recommends that the amendments be made in a timely manner to allow the amended act to come into force by December 31, 1996.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1079

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1079

The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour. Thank you. Down. Against the motion. The motion is carried, Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

In reviewing the legislation Members did look at other issues including, should a deal stop at the Commissioner, rather than the Supreme Court, and, should the initial point of contact be individual departments rather than a central location; however, there was agreement that the basic framework proposed under the Act was acceptable. The only changes that were crucial were those that would allow a smooth transition when division occurs. The key for the Members of the Working Group was the ensure that the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act could be implemented on schedule and in a way which was as economical and efficient as possible without changing the intent of the Act.

They would like to see the Act with the two amendments suggested in place with a simple, straightforward regime leaving out the extra frills which add costs, but which do not significantly improve the public's ability to access information. Rather than creating a complex structure in anticipation of demand, Members believe it is better to implement the Act and then determine over time what modifications might be required based on the demand.

This timeline for implementation of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act is very tight. Some departments and agencies may not be fully prepared to deal with requests for information efficiently and effectively when the Act comes into force on December 31, 1996; as well, there may be some carryover tasks not completed by December 31, 1996.

There are other issues in this Act, Mr. Chairman. Combining the Information and Privacy Commissioner's office with other Commissioner's offices. Members considered the option of combining the offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioner with the Office of the Language Commissioner, the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, and if legislated, the Office of the Ombudsman. There was strong support for looking at this option prior to the appointment of the next Language Commissioner; however, this again, was seen as a division issue. Rather than tying the hands of the new governments the Members instead supported an appointment of the Information and Privacy Commissioner in a way which would allow the two new Territories to make a decision on amalgamating offices in 1999.

There has been no clear identification of which Minister would be responsible for ensuring the implementation of the Act within the Government. A review of other jurisdictions shows no consistent placement of this responsibility; however, there is a need for a single Minister to take responsibility. This would include maintaining the revised directory, preparing forms, and other necessary paper work. Much of the work is tied to records management, forms, and printing and publication; therefore, the most appropriate Department within the current Government of the Northwest Territories structure to assume responsibility for the overall implementation of the Act would be the Department of Public Works and Services.

Recommendation 6: I move that this committee recommends that the Minister of Justice should be responsible for overall implementation of the Act within the Government.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I will oppose that motion, Mr. Chairman. I feel that the Minister of Public Works should be responsible for this. Thank you very much.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, (pause), I am being advised that the motion should read:

The Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy recommends that the Minister of Justice should be responsible.

To the motion, Mr. Morin.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I guess I listen with great interest and just to remind Members that I am sure we will all support this recommendation that ultimately the Premier will appoint the Member of Executive Council to be responsible for the overall implementation of the Act within the Government Northwest Territories and ultimately it will fall under that responsibility. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

The Chair John Ningark

To the motion. Question. All those in favour of the motion. Thank you. Down. Thank you. Opposed. The motion is carried.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

An Hon. Member

Mr. Ootes voted against it.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1080

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Picco, I believe you still have a line or two in your report, Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am going to talk a little bit about the historical files after division. As part of the Government's work on division some consideration must be given to the placement and ownership of Government files after March 31, 1999. This ends the reports of the Working Group on Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. I would just like to say for the record, Mr. Chairman, I thoroughly enjoyed working with Minister Dent and Minister Thompson, Chairman Steen, and Mr. Miltenberger during the hot, warm, days this summer, putting this together. It was an effort of some due course and understanding and I am very pleased to have been part of this wonderful ad hoc group. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Can we agree that Tabled Document 89-13(3) is concluded? Agreed? Yes, thank you. What is the wish, Mr. Ootes?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I recommend that we carry on with Member's Statement 82-13(3), Premier's Sessional Speech.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe it is a Minister's Statement 82-13(3), Premier's Sessional Speech. Do we agree with the Honourable Member

that we shall proceed, Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1081

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I would like to make a motion to report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1081

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion, please signify in the usual manner. Thank you. Down. All those opposed. The motion is defeated so we will carry on with Minister's Statement 82-13(3), Premier's Sessional Speech. Do we have any general comments on the Minister's statement. Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the Premier's Sessional Statement, the Premier talked about the strategies and goals of this government and where we have come from starting off in November when we sat first as a Legislature up until the present time. I just have a general comment on some of the strategies that we have taken and some of the ones we will be taking based on the sessional speech. Those include some of the detrimental ones we have seen to be doing, but I guess we have no other choice in these fiscally hard times.

However, I would like to say again that I would like to see some type of a job strategy in place to bring employment opportunities to northerners. I would also like to see a plan in place to look after the needs of the less fortunate that we have been talking about so many different times. This government is not in the position to actually create jobs, but it can create a climate of economic growth which could foster that job growth from the private sector.

I would also like to say the strategy on jobs seems to be based on the BHP mines taking off or the mineral sector. In our region, we do not have much potential for mines so I think we should look at other areas of job creation of helping foster the private sector like some of the work that the Investment Sub-Committee did on the Immigrant Investors Program or something similar where we can bring in those extra dollars to create the climate for economic development which will get northerners back to work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the Premier going to respond to Mr. Picco? I will defer.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1081

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Honourable Premier, you can respond to Mr. Picco. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with everything Mr. Picco said. But in seriousness, the Inuit Employment Plan the Minister of Education talked about today, that is part of it as well as Nunavut Unified Human Resource Development Strategy. Also, the federal government has committed $39.8 million to the strategy for the next four years. Our government will invest $101.4 million in education and training activities in Nunavut alone, and $1.6 million on planning and training initiatives. This year, the Department of Education, as well, is preparing a labour force development plan which is one of the six strategies developed to ensure the economic priorities set out in the 13th Assembly agenda for change are achieved. The goal of the plan is to strengthen to capacity the northern workforce to meet the demands of the labour market and to guarantee employment opportunities for northerners.

A draft of the Labour Force Development Plan has been completed and will be finalized by the end of October this year, Mr. Chairman. So we are putting things together. It is just a matter of bringing them all together in the one document, I guess, to present. So it is work that is ongoing and it will continue. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1081

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Member for Thebacha.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1081

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to make a few brief comments as well. The key

issue of how we are doing business and trying to let people know what we have done, where we have been and where we are going is the whole issue of communication. We have talked about that in Caucus and around this Hall or this Assembly. I think it is critical that we have to get better than that. We have done a lot of good things, but people do not necessarily know that. We also have to show people as we have promised them that we would do a report card and basically an assessment of where we have been in relation to the priorities we set. I think it is critical as well that we have to learn from our mistakes as we move ahead with another proposed major amalgamation in terms of dealing with our employees since they are the engine that drives the government and carries on all the work in the fine programs that we set up.

As the Member from Iqaluit said, it is important, and I think we all share the same concern, that we start look to broadening our economic base which I think we are making all the rights moves to do that. We just have to set that our very clearly for the people and not only rely on the mega projects but a lot of the community development issues throughout the community empowerment. I would encourage the Premier with this communication strategy that we have been talking about and look forward to seeing the finished document when it comes out. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1082

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question about some directions from the honourable Member to the Premier. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with Mr. Miltenberger that we have to communicate and we have to make sure that our good messages are getting out because, guaranteed, any bad messages the press will make sure they get out for us and so will the union. We all know that. So we are doing a lot of good things as a government and we have a lot of opportunity open to us yet. We do have a billion dollars. That is enough dollars to do some good in the Northwest Territories.

As far as the communication plan that is coming, we have worked on it since last year and then there was a change in staff so that stuff was put on hold. Basically, what we have to do -- and it includes all 24 of us -- is send out as much letters as we want because I have signed thousands of those letters. We can send out pamphlets -- and we have sent those out -- and we can sent out information to people in written form to communities. I know that Members to go their regional meetings and Members go to their community meetings and as well as our Assemblies during the summer and continue to tell people what the government is doing. The message still does not seem to be getting through so we are going to have to do more. Actually, Roy Romanow, Premier of Saskatchewan, told me to roll up our sleeves and go into our communities to actually explain and have charts and stuff that we can use so that people fully understand what we are doing, why we are doing it, and what good things we are doing as well.

With that, I look forward to working with Members on that issue. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1082

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the Minister's statement, he talks about being basically on track and meeting our budget targets. Are you saying we will not have any overexpenditures in the different envelopes and that we basically will not have any other expenditures relating to costs of projects or basically coming forth with supplementary appropriation dollars this year to carry us through? In your statement, you said we are on track to meet our budget targets for this current year. Are you saying that basically we will not end up with any over-expenditures and that we will end up with a surplus?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1082

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1082

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will never end up with a

surplus this year for the simple reason we are in a deficit to begin with and while we are trying to do is minimize that deficit, we as Members of the Assembly set out a fiscal recovery plan and we are sticking to that, and we are on target. There will be some cost overruns in some of the social envelope departments. That is my understanding, but that does not mean that will change our targets. It means that we have to shift some money around.

That is what it means, and we do not have any new money to draw on so we have to continue the stated course, and my understanding from the Minister of Finance is that, and he gave a statement in the House, yesterday, I believe, basically to say that we are on target and we will meet our target of the deficit or a certain dollar this year and then balanced budget for the next year. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1083

The Chair John Ningark

General comments to the statement. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

In regards to being on track with what we have seen in the last week, there are no projects that have sort of popped up in regards to the budget reviews and also monies that were allocated in way of new projects and those were not budgeted in the overall capital expenditures and the budget was approved in the spring, so, have those dollars been taken into account, which there may be overruns in the area of, say, transportation, where in case we have a bad winter season in regards to roads being closed, and what not.

To maintain those might, the cost of maintaining highways, maybe it would be a lot higher than what we think in regards to what we budgeted for. Because monies that could have been used down the road in case of emergency crisis, may not be there, so we may end of with the additional of having to find other revenues to carry us through this winter. Is that taken into account the budget review because of the new projects that have been identified.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1083

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, in the Department of Transportation budget my understanding there was transfers of items from one capital project to another capital project still under the capital budget and they are still within their budget. As well as MACA there was a direct line transfer from community access road in Simpson to that community building in Fort Simpson, but that does not affect our targets at all. As far as winter road maintenance, the Department of Transportation has the capability of estimating the cost of removal of snow from roads and they go on long term figures and a formula and we have enough people there that are capable of doing that job so they should estimate fairly accurately. I cannot remember of any cost overruns of winter roads before, with snow removal. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

General comment, Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Can you guaranteed this House that there would not be any cost overruns in any department, for any revenues that are carried between those different portfolios.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1083

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No I would not be that foolish to do that. I cannot foretell the future and there may be changes in dollars spent from one department to the other and we will have to make the adjusts accordingly. Same as fighting forest fires. We cut that back two years ago from 28 million, I think, to cap at 13 million. Since then we have been fighting fire at that cost. This year we managed to save a million dollars, I believe, or some amount of money, not a bit, because we were lucky enough to have rain. My understanding is by having all the rain we have to spend a little bit of extra on maintaining some of our gravel roads because the rain washed some of them out. So, you are going to get money moving around like that. I

cannot guarantee, or no one can guarantee that there would be no cost overruns.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Any further general comments. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Used the example of a million dollar savings in the Forestry budget, has that million dollars been put back into the overall general fund, or else has it been put into bringing down the deficit, and basically, to pay off the million dollar deficit that we have.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like I said it is around a million dollars, I believe I have heard that figure, but I have never seen that exact figure. The way it works is that you draw down money. Not every department has it's own bank account. We have one bank account for the Government. We all draw down on it, and, if they did save a million dollars, then it would be a million less that they would be writing cheques on, borrowing basically, because we borrow, we are borrowing money, and so, I do not really know how to answer the Member's question other than, that is the way it works. I do not know the exact amount.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

In regards to containing control and integrity of this Government. Do you have any guidelines that your Ministers' follow in regards to how they are carried out their responsibilities as Ministers.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Ministers are to carry out their responsibility to deliver good government to people as Executive Council according to the policies and guidelines that we do have in the Financial Management Act. We have many different policies and many different acts that we have to follow. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

General comments. Mr. Roland.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In your sessional speech you make reference to the difficult choices that we will continue to need to make. Also, I will read from your sessional statement here: "Mr. Speaker, we have attempted to make these choices in a fair and equitable manner that treats all communities and regions as fair as possible".

That is a standard we committed to work to and as a group should we must discuss whether we are meeting that standard. In your opinion, or, is the Minister saying that we are heading towards that equality factor, I guess, the fairness issue. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to let my Honourable Member know that we always do everything fair and that is how we start off and we will continue to do it as the Member knows that, you know, we started down this road, it is a two year process. It is a two year deficit elimination process. It is not the greatest time for any of us and I have, I guess some of us that have been here longer may have a thicker skin than others.

I commend the Members, especially the fifteen new Members that have been able to take the heat of what the public puts on you when you are going through deficit elimination. It must have been nice to have been involved in Government when they had a surplus and were involved in Cabinet when they had a lot of money to spend. Today we do not. Everybody must remember that this is a two year process. We agreed on a two year process and by the time this next budget is presented to the Committee it better even out, so that we look at those communities that may seem, or may seem that they have lost a bit more than another community.

The Minister of Finance is well aware that we have to look at being more equal and we always understood that those communities that had the most, the most Government jobs, would probably be hit the hardest, we knew that. There are communities out there that have one or two Government jobs in it. We knew that we could not hit those communities, so, that is the road we are going down and we are trying to make it as fair as possible.

The important thing too is that we talked about, earlier, about, to look at the things that we are doing and talk about them in public and make sure that we all know that, where we are going, and the direction we are going, and whether or not we are all committed to that direction, continually committed to that direction.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Roland, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Krutko has already made a general comment and he is down the list. Mr. Roland. Mr. Krutko, on a point of order.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

We had a motion to report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. You have no point of order, but you did make a motion to report progress. Your motion is not debatable. All those in favour of reporting progress, please signify. Please keep your hands up. Down. Opposed. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Mr. Roland, general comments.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For having thick skin and taking the heat, I believe I can do that fairly well. I think a lot of us can, just the fact, I know back in the community of Inuvik over the summer when you left with the initial impact of it, that it would be difficult to continue this road if things were not seen to be balancing out. I can take the heat. I believe I can and I think we are on the right track when it comes to securing a financial future for those people that will call the new Territories their home, especially to our children.

We are heading on the right track, but there definitely needs to be some realigning in some situations, I believe. We have heard for quite some time as ... (inaudible) ... has mentioned earlier, the communication factor and stuff. We do have a lot of information, but I would say we need to add some qualify to that information because we are making some tough decisions and as you stated in your speech, there are going to be some tougher decisions to be made and choices to be made. I think it is very important that the information provided to us by the departments is accurate, as accurate as possible, that can be presented at the time. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to assure the Member that the information we get will be the same information that you will get, and it will be as accurate as possible, and it will be as clear as we can possibly make it. I fully understand that Mr. Roland has to go back to Inuvik and explain to his constituency, the same as I have to go back to mine and explain to mine. It has to be seen to be fair. We will all have to work together to accomplish that. He was 100 percent right. The first year was tough, but the next year is going to be tougher. I fully realize that. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a number of areas I would like to make general comments on. One of the areas is on the document that was building a foundation for a future. One of the first items mentioned here was on improving economic conditions. In that, what was meant was to enhance the creation of new and sustainable jobs for the Territories. We do not have a program in effect yet that creates new jobs. Our priority, and the Premier is correct in what he

stated, the first priority, had to be to get our financial House in order. I fully agree with him on that, but we need to ensure that we can put some emphasis next on job creation. I understand that we have to cut further this coming year. We have to start paying attention to this whole program of where we are going to find jobs for people because that will lead to a good social order for the well-being of people.

Mr. Erasmus has been speaking very eloquently and very forcefully on the need to put more money into the social envelope area. I sympathize with that, but when 65 percent of the territorial government's budget is devoted to the social envelope area; that is, education, health, housing, justice -- there is no one out there creating jobs. Education is addressing that problems, but we do not have a strategy that says this is how we can create jobs, other than through addressing training and so forth. I am afraid that what will happen is if we continue to put our money strictly into the social envelope area, pretty soon our budget will not be 65 percent, but next it will be 75 percent. What that translates into is that 25 percent of the money is put into road building and infrastructure building. That is where the jobs are.

You cannot keep handing out money to organizations and to individuals and systems that do not contribute to the economy. I am not against handing money and putting money into solving social problems. I am all for that, but we have to balance this out. Hence the reason for my concern about addressing the economic conditions that we are in the Territories. We are addressing that first, as the Premier stated, by putting our House in order. That is correct and I am all for that. I was one that wanted to push a little harder than the Premier even, but we are on a two year program. I would like to see that we address this whole question of job creation. I would like to see that we address summer employment for students which has not been done yet. I think summer employment for students is a necessity. We have to address this problem with the Union itself. I understand the Union's position and I understand our government's position and the difficulty that they need. But we have to have a meeting of minds on that situation because the Union must understand, too, that we have to create jobs.

I am concerned about the staff cuts that we are making. I understand that we need to make them, but where I now start having some concern is the message that is left with the rest of the staff. Staff will get very demoralized through the fact that more departments are being combined and they know that there may be lay-offs as a result. So you create a morale problem amongst the staff. How do we address that? I think we have to, as all of the Legislative Assembly, consider that, but Cabinet has to lead the way on that.

We need to address the question of privatization of companies. Where are we going with that and, hopefully, we will get a report on that fairly soon so that we know what it is that we can look at for privatization.

My final point is on the question of division. Division is one that we all agreed to. Where my concern is, is that it is not just a question for the East and the fact that, okay, we transferred to the East and they are operational. I also have to have the responsibility to ensure that that transfer -- April 1, 1999, Nunavut is operational, but that it is operational on an efficient basis. At the moment, I still have a responsibility to all the people of the Northwest Territories, not just in the West. My concern is, are we going to create an administration over there that is not ready to handle the administration of Nunavut to the degree that it should. Therefore, my concern lies around that area. Additionally, we have a concern with the West. Have we got everything together here? Or are we just saying, "Okay, division, bang, let us shoot another 50 people to the East." It has tremendous impact for morale of the employees. What do we do here? Do our operations function effectively here because we are pulling people out of the buildings here, et cetera? That is a concern of mine. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will be following up on the plan that Mr. Dent talked a bit about in his Minister's statement today. As well, we will be working with Education and Renewable Resources and Economic Development and FMBS and other departments to develop a work plan for job creation.

We have already as a government taken a strong stance.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) We do not have a quorum here.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Mr. Chairman, very quickly just to wrap up on what Mr. Ootes had said, we agree that we have to do this to create jobs because of the cutting that we have done. Also, on the summer employment for students, we are looking at developing a program of a 50/50 split with the private sector. We are going to work with the Ordinary Members to do that so we do not have the problem of having to pay so much money to summer students and employing more of them.

Yes, we do have problems with staff morale. There is no way we are going to get around that until we finish through this next year of work that we are doing. You always have staff morale problems when you are laying off people. But once we get through that, it should be better.

We are getting a lot of work done on the division issue. We do not expect to just kick open the doors April 1, 1999, -- It takes a lot of work and we are working to get that done. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. We have Mr. Erasmus and Mr. Steen. Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Premier indicated in his speech that this government has pledged to take action on Aboriginal issues. I am assuming he was referring to the "Building a Foundation for the Future, Northwest Territories Agenda for Change", which under your heading of Taking Action on Aboriginal Issues, it states that the priority of this government is to respect Aboriginal rights, treaty rights and Aboriginal concerns and views.

Mr. Chairman, as a lot of people know, when the treaty party came up to this area to the Treaty 8 area, the treaty people did not -- at that point, of course, they were not treaty people -- the Aboriginal people up here did not want to sign the treaty until they got a lot of concessions out of the Treaty Commissioner. They basically negotiated a deal and, in the Commissioner's report, he wrote, and it is in all kinds of documents that the federal government itself hands out, that in order to get the people to sign the treaty, he promised them that they would never have to pay taxes. To this day, this government still taxes Treaty 8 Indians. So if we are going to respect and recognize Aboriginal rights and treaty rights, when is this government going to recognize the right for Treaty 8 Indians not to pay taxes?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Basically the same question was brought up by Mr. Bill Erasmus, Dene National Chief, to us this summer when we were in Fort Resolution for the Dene National Assembly. At that time I told him that we would work with him to develop whatever we could do to assist him as a government. I know Chief Erasmus has set up meetings with the Minister of Finance, the Honourable John Todd, and they will be meeting in the very near future to discuss this issue. Also I know that we as a government have written to the Minister of Indian and Northern

Affairs, The Hon. Ron Irwin, to try to get a speedy conclusion to treaty land entitlements or Aboriginal claims in all areas of the Northwest Territories and especially in the Treaty 8 area. So we have done that already. I just say to the Member now that I have been here for nine years and never before have I seen such a good working relationship that we have now. Even in the past two to three weeks here, we have been working fairly close with Treaty 8 and Treaty 11 and the negotiations between themselves and BHP diamonds. So we have a close working relationship between those Aboriginal First Nations and Aboriginal people in the North, and we hope to continue to have that.

You are not going to change some things overnight. There is no doubt in my mind. I would like to be able to just wave a wand and change it, but I am not going to be able to do that. I think the people understand that we are working on it and we will try our best. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Premier has indicated, never before has this government had such a good working relationship with the Aboriginal governments. I applaud him for that and I hope I have played some small part in that; however, it seems to me that a really good way to keep up this good working relationship and perhaps to improve upon it is to recognize Aboriginal and treaty rights such as the right to not be taxed. What I would like to know is what the Premier means when he says he is going to work with Treaty 8 to assist them? Could he expand on that a little bit?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are doing that already and we have done that in the past, especially these last few days with their negotiations with BHP. We have talked, as a matter of fact as late as yesterday afternoon, to The Honourable Ron Irwin encouraging him to get on with the process of negotiating and getting the finalization of treaty land entitlements or comprehensive claims, whichever Treaty 8 choose to do. I am encouraging a speedy resolution of the claims in the Northwest Territories.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate we are assisting the; however, that is just assisting them with the federal government. When is this government going to recognize the right?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is on record that this government does recognize Aboriginal rights and treaty rights. We do our best to assist our own people in the Northwest Territories to move ahead to settle their claims. Like I have told the Member already, we have set up meetings with Grand Chief, Bill Erasmus, and we will be talking to them about the whole taxation issue, and talking to the federal government as well. I think the best way to assist Treaty 8 is to try to get a speedy resolution to treaty land entitlement or a comprehensive claim, whichever venue they choose to go.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well I am glad to hear they are going to discuss taxes. I certainly hope that they are going to recognize and respect, as we say in this book here, we are going to do recognize and respect Treaty 8's right not to be taxed by this Government and I am also glad to hear that they are assisting with the Treaty negotiations, the Treaty travel negotiations, but I may not have the same idea that it is the best way to help them.

I think that certainly recognizing and respecting the Aboriginal and Treaty rights by not taking our people to court, and by not taxing them as their right indicates. I think that would be a long, long way to helping them and also to demonstrating that this Government, indeed, is respecting and recognizing Aboriginal Treaty rights. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are trying to avoid court cases and trying to get outstanding issues settled with Aboriginal Peoples throughout the north. Tax is one issue, there are some other issues, as well. I am still a firm believer that, and I talk to a lot of people, that the whole tax issue is going to be an issue they are going to negotiate with the federal government. That is part of the negotiations, right now. It is what my Chiefs tell me and some other people are saying the process, negotiations with claims, will help all the people, not just some individuals that may be lucky enough to have a job, or getting the tax-free benefits.

I believe the best venue to help Aboriginal People is trying to assist as much as we can and get the federal government back to the table with them. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, perhaps, the Premier is right. A claim would benefit everyone, not just the people that have jobs; however, there is two huge differences between negotiating negotiations for treaty land entitlement or for comprehensive claims. You do not come out of there with Aboriginal rights or treaty rights, you come out with a contract and an agreement that you negotiated. Aboriginal rights, treaty rights, already exist. They are constitutionally protected, and if we say we are going to respect them and recognize them, that is what we should do. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to assure the Member that is what we are doing. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Steen.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of my comments are centred around the Premier's pledge to improve the economic conditions. Mr. Chairman, I am a bit concerned with the approach that is being taken in dealing with BHP. I like to caution the premier on the approach he is taking in dealing with BHP. I would like to remind the Premier that a few years ago when the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline was being built, people were so concerned about the social problems that were going to come and all the riff-raff that we going to come down that highway, that they stopped that highway at Wrigley.

Now they are all crying for that highway because there is no more work. The social riff-raff that was supposed to come down that highway, never did show up. All those social problems that were supposed to come with that pipeline, never came. Another example was oil development in the Beaufort Sea. There was a lot of opposition at that time to continue with the Dempster Highway along to Tuk.

All the riff-raff that was going to come down and work for those oil companies and bring all the drugs, and dope, and booze, and bad habits with them. There was enough public pressure that would stop that project, now they are crying for that road again. And where is that oil company? Or those other companies? Or the riff-raff? Well, the booze and the drugs are there. They came and they stayed. There is no more oil companies. But all the bad habits are there. That is all that stayed behind. So we have to be very careful how we deal with these companies that want to come and develop the north. Scaring them away by saying that we are worried about what they are going to do to us, and then when they do leave we cry and scream, and we want them all to come back, but they are not coming back.

Now I would like to hear from the Premier. Is it possible to hear what these businessmen said, could he report to us on that, or is it Cabinet's secret, what is the score on that one. Because that one basically tells me whether or not me and my people should ever hope for more economic development before 1999. At the rate we are going, Mr. Chairman, by the time we balance the budget we will be too poor to afford to pay attention to anything else. We have to do something at this point in time. I would like some response, Mr. Chairman, from the Premier on that.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to, with the greatest of respect to my colleague, Mr. Steen, who is, much wiser than myself, on the history on the Northwest Territories. I recall history myself, and I have recalled what has happened with economic development projects in the Northwest Territories. We can see the economic development from the some of the mining industry, for example, Echo Bay Mines, or Lupin, or Nanisivik, or other mining companies. If that is economic development then we do not need it. It is complete fly over economy. What is the north benefitting from? The jobs are all coming out of the south, a 727 touches down at the mine and lands in Edmonton, is that development? I say no.

What development is, is people living in the north, investing in the north. If they are going to take our resources out of the north, Mr. Chairman, yes, I did take a strong stance with BHP, and I still take that same stance, whether it be Kennecott, or any other mining company, or any other developer.

We as northerners have to benefit from the resources that are being taken out of the land. We have seen many, many, times in the past. We had the whalers here. They took away all the oil, what did they leave? Not a lot. We had the Hudson Bay Company. They are big time developers. What did they leave, besides a few beads and trinkets. You have other developers, as well, that came into the north and left without leaving anything, so we stuck to our guns and we came out three weeks ago and said yes, if you are going to develop the north, you are going to live up to the public promises you made.

You guaranteed jobs, you guaranteed to our businesses in the north to get service contracts. So we are trying to assist them to live up to their word. I think we have been very successful in doing it. There is no way we are trying to scare out the mining sector. We welcome all mining development with open hands and we will help them down that road as long as they are ready to hire and buy in the north and support northern business, and northern people. That is not asking too much. These are our resources. They are right out our back door. So we expect that, and rightfully so. I completely agree with Vince. There is more to economic development than Yellowknife and BHP Diamonds, there is a lot more than that in the north. We have to work with the other communities in other regions to get economic development going and we are committed to doing that.

We have to work on the renewable resource economic development, whether it be saw mills, wood, wildlife, or fish, or whatever. As far as what the Premier's Panel is doing, and I thank the Members, for the good people they sent to the Premier's Panel, I thank them all because they are all excellent people that are volunteering their time to give us some advice.

The first meeting that we had, was basically, this is where the Government is and these are the problems we have. It was a meeting to let them know where we are as a Government. The next meeting we started talking about more issues about what we have to do as a Government. The major thing that came out of that meeting is that we have to get off our butts as a Government and move ahead getting our people trained to take advantage of economic development that is happening.

Now they have asked for quite a bit of information. We have met twice since our Premier's Panel has been in place. So I am expecting some strong recommendations coming out of there in the very near future and I will be pleased to supply Members with their briefing on that last meeting, or the last two meetings, if you would like that. I will tell you one thing, it is a panel that is composed of good business people that have invested in the Northwest Territories that are willing to contribute to the Northwest Territories. When they came on, all the meetings are on weekends, because these people are far too busy to take time off their companies during the week. I thank them because they gave up their weekend when it is normally spent with their families.

So, I thank you for your excellent recommendation, Vince, on the person you sent from Tuk, he has been very active as well as the other Members, and I will share that information with Members of this Assembly. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Mr. Chairman, I would like to report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

The Chair John Ningark

There is a motion to report progress and a motion...are you making a motion?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

I move to report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. Opposed. The motion, down please. The motion is carried. Now I will rise and report progress.

-- SHORT RECESS

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1091

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Committee will come back to order. We are on items 20, report from committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report From Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report From Committee Of The Whole

Page 1091

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good evening. Your Committee has been considering Bill 19 and Tabled Document 89-13(3), and Minister's Statement 82-13(3), The Premier's Sessional Speech and would like to report progress with six motions being adopted and that Tabled Document 89-13(3)

is concluded and the Bill 19 is ready for third reading and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report From Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report From Committee Of The Whole

Page 1092

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Seconded by Mr. Ng. The motions is in order to the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Ng.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1092

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Baffin South that Bill 17, Business Corporations Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1092

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order to the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried, and accordingly Bill 17 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1092

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

Orders of the day for Friday, October 11, 1996:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motions

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills: Bill 16

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters:

- Tabled Document 1-13(3)

- Tabled Document 83-13(3)

- Minister's Statement 82-13(3)

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills: Bill 19

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1092

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Just to remind the Members that we have a pool tournament tonight and we hope to see you there. This House stands adjourned until Friday, October 11, 1996, at 10:00 a.m.

---ADJOURNMENT