Members Present
Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd
Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 435
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Good afternoon. Mr. Antoine.
Point of Privilege
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 435
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege under Rule 20(1).
During question period yesterday, I responded to a number of questions relating to the consultation process for the development of a constitution for the western territory. At the time, I told Members that we would be conducting extensive consultation in the communities aimed at ensuring every citizen, who wishes to have input, would be given the opportunity to do so.
I also stated that, while we have not finalized the process that would be involved in this consultation, we would not only be taking forward the main options outlined in the Partners in a New Beginning document, but we also plan on presenting additional information on the other models of government discussed by the Constitutional Working Group.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a point of privilege on this matter because of how my comments were interpreted and reported in the news media. While reports on the CBC radio this morning stated accurately that we will be conducting extensive consultation, it was incorrectly reported that we would only be taking the one model forward.
To repeat my comments from yesterday, as reported on page 693 of the unedited Hansard, I stated:
"We have asked our officials to take a closer look at these two other models and come out with some information on those two. Yes, we hopefully will be bringing more information to these consultation meetings in relation to the other two models."
Mr. Speaker, as Members know, this is a sensitive and emotional issue for the people of the western territory. For that reason, I felt it was vital that I stand up today to repeat my remarks and confirm that we will indeed be taking more than one model forward in order to guarantee and generate a healthy and productive discussion.
Mr. Speaker, I state again, for the record, the intent of this public consultation process will be to gather additional input and ideas towards the development of a final model that we could then take forward to the citizens of the west for ratification and, eventually, as a recommendation to the federal government. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 435
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.
Community Justice Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 435
Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker and good afternoon colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I would like to talk a bit about a Community Justice Conference that is going to be happening on the dates of February 18, 19, 20 and 21. The Community Justice Conference is going to be held in Cape Dorset and my communities of Pangnirtung and Broughton Island have been invited to go to that conference, and also myself.
Mr. Speaker, I would like the communities of Pangnirtung and Broughton Island to know that, as much as I would like to be at that conference, I feel that it is my duty to be here in Yellowknife during the budget process. Mr. Speaker, I would like them to know that they have my full support, even though I am not going to be there on those dates. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Community Justice Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 435
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.
Educational Requirements In Anticipation Of Division
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 435
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government talks about how important it is for people to be educated. It is really important for the people in my area as they get ready for Nunavut. If we want people to be ready for jobs, they need more than Grade 12. They need to go to college or university. This is very hard to do, especially for the people from smaller communities. They have to leave their homes and families; they have to travel long distances; they have to get used to a new community.
Mr. Speaker, one thing we do to help people to improve is through financial assistance. The government gives students support with grants and loans. We offer a good level of financial help compared to other places in Canada. However, even with this support, it is very difficult for students. They do not have enough money. We encourage people to go to college so they can get a good, decent job. Often, they do not have a job before they go to school. This means that they do not have extra money saved up. With the high cost of living in places like Iqaluit, the student financial assistance does not go very far. Many students and their families have very little money while they are trying to go to school.
Mr. Speaker, we need to encourage people to improve their education. It is too hard for them or their children. They want help in order to go to school. People have enough trouble now with the funding available. We cannot afford to reduce the assistance for the people to attend college and universities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Educational Requirements In Anticipation Of Division
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.
Resource Sector Employment Opportunities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we grind our way through the budget for 1997/98, I intend to become very focused on the material contained within that relating to the government. I want to just remind people of an issue, that we cannot ignore, that relates to the economy. The economy that we are all so worried about, not only in the west, but in the east.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important that as we look at the second year of the budget reduction plan, we have to continue to focus attention, as well, on another problem that we have to deal with. We are soon going to be the recipient of many more jobs than we have people for. I am talking about the jobs that are going to be coming to us in the resource sector, in the mining sector and, most recently I think with the upsurge of development, in the oil and gas sector up the valley.
The Minister's committee on mine training, I think, is a step in the right direction but there is a light there for us, a goal for us to strive for. That is to try and make sure that we get some training in place now, not just for the two mines of BHP and Kennecott who are now at the table and are to be commended for their commitment, but for all the other areas, like the east and like the petroleum industry, where the majority of the professional jobs will be brought in from the south.
I think it is a position that other jurisdictions would like to have and that is the fact that we are going to have more jobs than we have people to fill them. I think it is something that the Minister, this House and the Government Leader should be keeping in mind and pushing very hard with the industry, with education, in all the planning we do. It is a way to turn the focus away from the gloom and pessimism that now confronts us as we try to slog through this budget. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Resource Sector Employment Opportunities
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.
Initiatives To Construct Curling Rinks
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to the whole subject of community empowerment, community wellness and also dealing with the whole idea of the cuts that are related to infrastructure in communities to date the Fort McPherson community, as well as Tsiigehtchic, do not have curling rinks. The curling rink for Fort McPherson was in the budget three years ago with a price tag of $710,000. To date, it has been slashed from the budget and redistributed to other areas.
These types of initiatives are needed in the communities to allow individuals, who are on social assistance or welfare, to get back into the workforce and feel that they are part of the community by developing community infrastructure, by sharing sweat equity, also, by working along with interest groups that will go out of their way to raise funds, by whatever means they have through bingos, lotteries, et cetera. This government also has to contribute to that process. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister of MACA if this initiative is possible within this government.
-- Applause
Initiatives To Construct Curling Rinks
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Ms. Thompson.
Cbc Radio Inuktitut Language Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the valuable contribution CBC radio makes in getting information out to the Inuit. With division quickly approaching, it is very important that people hear what is happening in their own language. Even though we, the MLAs of Nunavut, stay in Yellowknife during the session, we are able to listen to the news in Inuktitut through CBC from Nunavut. We also listen and hear what other leaders are telling our constituents.
I would also like to thank all the constituents that take the time to call their MLAs and tell us what they have heard if we miss some news items. Lately, constituents have been calling us about comments made by Jose Kusugak and John Amagoalik regarding MLAs' roles in division. I would like to thank the CBC staff and the Inuit who have worked on the constituents for helping inform us.
Cbc Radio Inuktitut Language Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.
Release Of Book On Flyfishing In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 436
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say a few words about a member of my constituency named Chris
Hanks, an enterprising sportsman and author. Chris is a well-known archaeologist and anthropologist. His field work has taken him into the settlements and on to the land with the people of our territory. Along with his notebooks and excavation kit, he frequently packs a fishing rod and takes advantage of sporting opportunities most of us only dream of. As a result, he has acquired a vast catalogue of memorable fishing stories. About two years ago, Chris started compiling these stories for a book. The book is now finished and I am happy to report that the first copies of Fly Fishing in the Northwest Territories of Canada are beginning to arrive in Yellowknife. They should be available in the stores shortly. Mr. Speaker, Chris' book has appeal beyond the angling audience. His stories are spiced with details of wilderness travel, natural history and the people of the north. Fly Fishing in the NWT will find favour with anyone who enjoys the outdoors and it will give a little boost to our tourism industry, no doubt.
I would also like to note this book was published without government assistance. Chris appraised his material, identified an audience, and found a publisher who served that audience. I believe that there are many northerners who could follow this example. People want to learn about our lives up here. We have no reason to be shy. Chris' example shows we can find audiences and create marketable products without having to go to the government for help. I would like to finish by extending my congratulations to Chris first, for completing his book which is no mean feat in itself. Second, I want to thank him for demonstrating that a little confidence and imagination can go a long way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Release Of Book On Flyfishing In The Nwt
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Mr. Picco.
Representation On Behalf Of Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
Edward Picco Iqaluit
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to speak first in Inuktitut. In 1983 I arrived at Hall Beach and worked for the Hudson's Bay. Then, I worked in Broughton Island, and then I was employed by the Arctic College. In 1992, my wife and I moved to Iqaluit and I would like to say hi to my in-laws (Translation ends) Nunavut is my home. My three children were born in Iqaluit and my wife was born at a spring camp near Clyde River.
-- Applause
Representation On Behalf Of Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
Edward Picco Iqaluit
All are beneficiaries of the Nunavut land claim and they are the reason that I entered politics to help provide a better future for their life in Nunavut. I am proud to represent Iqaluit in this House and have tried to represent all my constituents equally and fairly. Representing my constituents' interests has at times caused some conflict between me and other Members in this House, but our vision of the Northwest Territories both east and west is the same. We, as elected Members in this House, have tried to come to terms with reductions, deficits, and forced growth. I have not been home since the 15th of January, and I will not get home until the first of March. Here we have to focus on creating two viable territories while still remembering those at home. I have tried
to focus my attention and highlight the social and economic areas we need to address before division. These include better housing, and good jobs, better health facilities, and increased support to community wellness programs.
Mr. Speaker, Nunavut is my home and I look forward to the end of this month so I can get home to go out caribou hunting with Jerry Ell, and my friends, take the family out to Tare Inlet for picnics and sliding.
-- Applause
Representation On Behalf Of Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Picco. I forgot to mention yesterday that in this House we do have simultaneous translation, and so when you have that, the Members speak too fast and the translators cannot keep up with you. You could lose part of your statements that you make.
If you try to beat the clock this may not allow the translators to translate all your statement. I would like to ask the Members if they could speak slowly and if you need more time, I am sure the Members will allow you that time. But the translators are having problems because Members are speaking faster than usual at times. Thank you for your cooperation. Members' statements. Mr. Roland.
Measures Needed To Prevent Fas/fae
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to send greetings back to my home community, my wife and children in Inuvik.
-- Applause
Measures Needed To Prevent Fas/fae
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 437
Floyd Roland Inuvik
It has been a while. Mr. Speaker, recently in Inuvik there has been a study done on a number of the students in Sir Alexander Mackenzie School, the elementary school. It was found that there is an alarming rate of fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects. In this day, the government is reducing its budget and trying to take care of our people in the Territories. I would like to know what we are doing as a government to try and address the problem that we have that is going to be coming up behind us in our youth.
They say 21 percent of the youth in SAMS school are affected by this. This is just Inuvik. How is it in the rest of the Territories or what is the number in the rest of the Territories? Is this government trying to address this? If this is the showing, we have approximately a quarter of our population that is coming up behind us that are going to be into the system, into health care, into education, and so on and so forth. Are we doing anything to try to address this now or are we going to be blown over when it comes to these people going into the system and requiring help? What are we doing to try and prevent this?
I am going to be asking the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, later on, some of these questions because I believe that we, as a government, need to start addressing some of these issues. As we have talked about forced growth, we are going to have forced growth coming up. If we do not address this, I think that we are going to find ourselves in a similar situation in years to come, trying to deal with things after the fact, and trying to chase the problems with money which we have proven as a government does not work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Measures Needed To Prevent Fas/fae
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 438
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the House today I see Mr. Bert Rose, a long time resident of the Northwest Territories and Iqaluit and a good educator, now working with the Nunavut Implementation Commission.
-- Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 438
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been a couple of days since I recognized Ms. Pat Thomas of the NWTTA. Hi, Pat.
-- Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs in regards to my statement about the possibility of allowing the flexibility to look at developing infrastructure in communities by sharing 50/50 percent of the cost between the local community recreation organizations, by them raising 50 percent of the money. In the case of Fort McPherson, they are looking at developing a scaled down version of a curling rink at about $250,000. They are willing to raise $125,000 if there is a possibility of working some arrangement out with MACA to come up with the additional money to develop this structure in the community. Is there that possibility? Thank you.
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. Ms. Thompson.
Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since we no longer fund curling rinks, one of the options that the community has is that we can block fund the community and they can set their priorities, and if this is their priority, my department will work with them and see what they can do to find a way for them to get the curling rink. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to block funding communities, at the present time the community for the Hamlet of Fort McPherson has not taken that initiative to look at block funding for the communities. But is there another possibility of dealing directly between your department and, say, the curling committee or whatever, who have gone out of their way to raise this funding in regards to recreational funds that may be within your department for that initiative?
Supplementary To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Ms. Thompson.
Further Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My department can work with the community to move towards block funding, because right now that is the only option they have to set their priorities and to have flexibility in their funds in the community to move towards block funding. My department can start working with the community towards that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the idea of your department sitting down with the community to work towards resolving this issue, as you know, Ms. Minister, that there is presently a lot of construction going on in regards to the school so there is probably a cheaper cost if we take advantage of the present materials that are in the community. Is there a possibility that you can allocate the resources to get on this right away with the human resources so that they can sit down, talk this over with community, and try to resolve it as soon as possible? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Ms. Thompson.
Further Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will get my department staff to start talking with the community right away.
Further Return To Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Question 243-13(4): Curling Rink Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Roland.
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement, I talk about the FAS/FAE problems that we are starting to experience. I think that we have noticed it in the Territories in many communities, and I would like to know if the Minister of Health and Services, if there has been any studies in this area within his department. Thank you.
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 438
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Health and Social Services. Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not certain if there has been specific studies in this area. I know that we do recognize that it is a serious problem throughout the Northwest Territories and we are trying to put it together in the social envelope departments, the strategies to try and coordinate some of the programs to tackle the issue head on, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Minister know if something will be done in the near future or what is to be done besides throwing a strategy together? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Speaker, the strategy is currently one of the most active things ongoing in the social envelope departments of this government as it stands now. It is in tune with some of the reinvestment dollars of this government for this current budget that is going to go towards early childhood intervention. A significant component of that, of course, Mr. Speaker, is to try and address the issue of FAS/FAE by trying to raise the awareness of the problem and to try to identify the resources to deal with that problem, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell me if any of the funding has been reinvested with trying to deal in the area of prevention instead of just looking at numbers?
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the vast, the large majority of all the funding is targeted exactly towards that prevention and promotion of those types of issues that affect children before they are born and after they are born, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Roland.
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minster make me aware if in this strategy that they will be looking and dealing with mothers who would fall into the area of risk? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, a certain portion of that strategy will be targeting the expectant mothers, both pre-conception and post-conception, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Question 244-13(4): Prevention Of Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to Ms. Thompson, the Minister for Municipal and Community Affairs. In the transfers to communities under the community empowerment, will there be a responsibility on behalf of those communities to follow the business incentive policy?
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Thompson.
Return To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.
Return To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.
Supplementary To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the interests and the design of community empowerment, which is designed to allow communities to make decisions on their own, would it not make more sense to allow communities the flexibility to design their own initiatives in the community, rather than following dictates from the government? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Ms. Thompson.
Further Return To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the items that I was talking about this week was municipal financing review and we are reviewing the financial relationship with communities. This is one of the items that would be reviewed in that review with the communities, so that it is initiated by the communities through the NWTAM. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Question 245-13(4): Adherence To The Bip By Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Steen.
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 439
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is directed to the Premier, Mr. Morin. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House I asked a question in regards to POL privatization of Mr. Arlooktoo, and I was advised that he was no longer responsible for privatization. I
wonder if the Premier could advise us, when did this responsibility transfer take place?
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Premier Morin.
Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Department of RWED, Mr. Kakfwi has been responsible for the privatization and papers associated with the privatization since the spring. Thank you.
Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Supplementary, Mr. Steen.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of a public statement being made in regards to advising the Members that the responsibility for privatization was transferred from Mr. Arlooktoo to Mr. Kakfwi. I wonder if the Premier could possibly keep the House informed in regards to these transfers in the future? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Arlooktoo under DPW is in charge of the POL file for, say, in delivering fuel to all our communities in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Kakfwi under RWED, our economic arm of this government, is in charge of privatization and looking at privatization initiatives. So we have no problem keeping this House informed and updated on privatization and where we are going with it. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my point is, yesterday, both me and Mr. Picco addressed our questions to the wrong Minister simply because we were not aware of the transfer of Cabinet responsibilities and, therefore, what I am requesting is, could the Premier inform the Members publicly when these transfers of responsibilities take place. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that Members were informed of who was responsible and I will get the information from the Ministers and I will pass on to the Members a chronological sequence of events of how that happened, because I am pretty sure that we would have made sure that the committees are informed,
as well as the Members, who had that responsibility. But I will look into it and I will get back to the Member. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this transfer of responsibility for privatization to Mr. Kakfwi, in regards to POL in particular, suggests that Mr. Kakfwi would be addressing the Infrastructure Committee in regards to POL privatization? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the Infrastructure Committee needed an update on privatization and where it is going and where it is at to date that is no problem. Mr. Kakfwi could do that. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Question 246-13(4): Responsibility For Pol Privatization
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is with respect to the land freeze that went into effect in the South Slave area in 1976, pending the successful completion and outcome of land claims in that area. It was my understanding that, at that time, the federal government indicated to the territorial government that, should they come up with a policy with respect to parcels of land for agriculture, that the federal government would entertain the disposal of land for agricultural purposes. I have been contacted by people in our area, which you know has soil conditions which make for viable market gardening and farming I have been contacted by constituents who are wondering if that policy was ever put in place and if that exclusion was ever communicated to the federal government? Thank you.
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Premier, Mr. Morin.
Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our government is in a position and we have said that we are in support of a land freeze until outstanding land claims are settled in those areas. Our government has not changed that position. It was the position of the government before and it is the same position today; so we have not addressed that issue. Thank you.
Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 440
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize that I might be addressing this question to, I am not certain of the right Minister to address that question to, but, is there an existing agricultural land policy in the South Slave?
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
So, just for clarification then, for my constituent, Mr. Speaker, the territorial government would not entertain a proposal, say from the Territorial Farmers' Association, to acquire land for farming purposes in the South Slave?
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I have the Member repeat her question please? I never quite picked it up.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mrs. Groenewegen, third supplementary.
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would it be the position of this government that they would not entertain a proposal from an organization such as the Territorial Farmers' Association to make parcels of land available in the South Slave at this time for farming purposes? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have been on record, many times, as saying that we will work with our aboriginal partners on all land issues in the Northwest Territories and with aboriginal groups. I think it is proper to say that we would not entertain from the farmers' association, a proposal without consulting with aboriginal First Nations and aboriginal groups, in that area. If people in that area would work together, I know, previously that economic development was working with the farmers' association to develop this agriculture policy for that area, but how far that work has gone, I do not know. So, I would have to look into it. It would have to be in conjunction with aboriginal people in that area, as well. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Question 247-13(4): Status Of The South Slave Land Freeze
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment. I was wondering if the Minister could update the House on the progress that his mine training committee is doing, and when they expect to have a final product out in terms of a report or a strategy? Thank you.
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment, Mr. Dent.
Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the mine training committee is in the initial stages of taking a look at a draft strategy. I would hope that they would have something refined within the next month or two to bring forward to me, but it is difficult to forecast exactly how quickly this will progress. I think that they have taken on this initiative quite strongly. Considering that the members do not get any compensation for participating in the committee, they have shown a willingness to spend many hours meeting, and have spent, within the last three weeks, in excess of a full day's worth of time discussing issues and initiatives in order to come up with some ideas for a strategy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Mr. Speaker, are the players at the table on the industry side still the same, with BHP and Kennecott at this point being the two main, I suppose, industries with projects on the go?
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The industry representatives are from the Chamber of Mines, from Diavik diamond project, from BHP, and from Aber Resources. So there is a cross section of the exploration side, as well as potential diamond mines represented and, through the Chamber of Mines, the supply and service sector is represented at the table. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 441
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the area of training in the resource sector, does the Minister see a possible extension of roles or mandate into the petroleum
sector as oil and gas develops up the valley? Is that another area that the Minister will be turning his attention to?
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just realized that I may have left a couple of members off the list when I answered the previous question. There are also representatives of some of the operating properties who attend the meetings, such as Lupin and, I believe, we have some representation from another property, although the name escapes me at the moment.
In response to the latest supplementary, the college, in particular, is already working with the community of Fort Liard, to ensure that people there are able to access training to take part in the oil and gas exploration work that is under way in that region. There has been some initial work done in the Sahtu. We are watching for opportunities and are ready to move forward to ensure that training is provided wherever there is the potential for jobs, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister indicate the portability of this kind of training? I am thinking specifically, with the near advent of division, of the need for...with resource development, which I understand is under way possibly in the east, that they will be as well set to take advantage of the opportunities? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. That was your final supplementary.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the basic principles of the committee which is providing me with advice on mine training, is that the training should be portable. The colleges are both kept informed about what is taking place in terms of training suggestions. The answer is that we are looking at setting up training programs that can be used, as I said, wherever we see an opportunity for jobs, whether it be in Nunavut or the western territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Question 248-13(4): Mine Training Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.
Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Manitok Thompson. Mr. Speaker, last year, in the winter when the Minister visited one of my communities, Resolute Bay, she spoke to the Hamlet of Resolute Bay in regards to the hockey arena. We have not
heard up to today, what is happening with the arena that was supposed to be established in Resolute Bay. I wonder if the Minister could respond to that question. Thank you. (Translation ends)
Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. Ms. Thompson.
Return To Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I was in Resolute Bay, I was very thankful that I was made to feel welcome and I am aware of the concern of the Member. We discussed the arena with the residents of Repulse Bay. We told them that we had some money to build an outside arena. It is not really an arena but it is an outdoor hockey rink with a fence around it. That is all the money that we have to build an arena of that kind. I asked my officials to look into whether they could put a roof over the arena outside, even though there is not enough funding. In the fall of 1996, MACA officials had someone do a plan as to what kind of hockey arena would be built outside. At the end of February, I will hear from my officials as to what is happening with the arena and I will let the Member know. The Resolute Bay residents will be informed as well. Thank you. (Translation ends)
Return To Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Question 249-13(4): Update On Resolute Bay Area
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in answer to some questions, Mr. Todd stated that the sale of staff housing was going at about 25 to 40 cents, I guess, on the dollar to the appraised value. Needless to say, that has caused some concern in my community where it is around 85 cents or more of the value. Can the Minister clarify where we are going with the actual cost or the appraised value on the sale of staff housing. Thank you.
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board. Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker and I appreciate the question asked by my honourable colleague. I may have inadvertently confused everybody yesterday which is not unusual. What I intended to say was that the appraised value of the housing is somewhere in the region of 25 to 40 percent off replacement value. That is what I meant to say. If I said otherwise, I apologize to my colleague and, of course, to those people who are purchasing their houses. I also indicated that the average price that we were getting, off the appraised value, is somewhere in the 86-87 percent. So, it was my intention to talk about replacement as it relates to appraised value, not sale. So, I apologize to my colleague and to the public at large who are out there purchasing these houses at this time. I appreciate the opportunity, given to me by my colleague from Iqaluit, to clarify the position that we have. Thank you.
Return To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 442
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have quite a few people in my constituency attempting to buy these staff houses. One thing that keeps coming up is the appraised value. Can the Minister tell me if the value on the house is appraised by a government-appointed appraiser or can, I, as an individual, bring in my own appraiser? What is the story on that?
Supplementary To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While the appraisers were territorial appraisers, they were independent business people who, over the last year, year and a half, have gone across the Territories appraising the houses, which of course this government paid for. If an individual tenant was not comfortable with the appraisal, he would certainly be entitled, at his own expense, to ask for another appraisal. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 250-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in my statement, I referred to the need for long-term, sustainable jobs. Mr. Speaker, training is a central component when looking at future jobs. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education. Can the Minister update this House as to the status of the unified training plans for Nunavut? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Dent.
Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the agreement between the parties was signed off officially by the Deputy Premier and the Minister of Indian Affairs in Iqaluit, I believe, in November. The programs have kicked off so that they are, in fact, being delivered right now. It looks like the training programs are pretty much on schedule as set out in the unified training document. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.
Supplementary To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, given that we are approximately 790 odd days away from division and the fact that I believe the Minister has stated that they kicked off the programs in November, can the Minister advise this House as to whether he feels that we would be able to meet the quotas that are projected for the various targets and various jobs. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is no question that it is an ambitious program because time is so short. However, the program does extend one year beyond April 1st, 1999 so that we have four years -- it works out to about three and a half years, in which to deliver the training. I believe the schedule, as it is laid out, is achievable. The college is working very aggressively to deliver their part. They are responsible for about 85 percent of the training and Nunavut Arctic College has risen to the challenge, in the three regions of Nunavut, to deliver training as quickly as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.
Supplementary To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister advise this House as to how many programs have actually started and what does the enrolment look like? Is it what they expected, is it low, high? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have exact program numbers or students with me right now. I will be happy to provide the Member with that information shortly.
Further Return To Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Question 251-13(4): Status Of Unified Human Resource Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Again, just to remind the Members, if you wish detailed information from the Ministers, that you do it in written questions, to provide the Minister with enough time to gather that information. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Antoine. It is to do with the constitutional process. I wonder if the Minister could tell us, in regard to the funding, the territorial government has committed funding for it and so has the federal government. I wonder if the Minister could tell us what the conditions of the federal funding are on providing money?
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 443
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the constitutional process for consultation, we have been successful in having commitments from the GNWT for funding as well as the federal government. The federal government has some conditions on the funding that is provided to us. These conditions could be met. We actually had a meeting on Monday and Tuesday nights and on Monday night we had some federal officials there. In the discussions, they were saying that the conditions are based on the preliminary... they may have been too strict but they are willing to relax on the funding. The main point here is that the agreement is that we are going to go ahead to do the consultation with the money that is provided. Conditions are that we have funding until the end of March but they said they will be flexible to extend it into the new fiscal year. This is mainly a fiscal year type of exercise so there is flexibility there that the funding provided will flow into the new fiscal year so that we can do the work that is necessary to be done. Thank you.
Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister enlighten us as to what the conditions are the federal government placed on the funding, other than the time frame.
Supplementary To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are some concerns that the federal government has when their officials are meeting. They are concerned about the one model in the document, Partners in a New Beginning. As I said yesterday, there are other models that we have put forward that are being developed further by our staff so that, once consultation begins, we will be able to share that with the people in the communities. The concern of the federal government bureaucrats has to do with the model that is in there. We feel that it is an incorrect analysis that they have. It is not complete. They never really took a look at the other two models, when they made these conditions. At the meeting on Monday night, they were more flexible so that we will be able to go ahead and utilize the funding for consultation as we had planned. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Again, on the constitutional process, I wonder if the Minister could assure me that the public will be informed of the ratification process at the time that public consultation meetings are held.
Supplementary To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Antoine.
Further Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the ratification process is, as I said in earlier questioning yesterday and the day before, the ratification process will be a vote, some time after the process is over. At the present time, our partners, the aboriginal leaders, are also looking at how to best develop a ratification process and yes, during the consultation process, the whole question of ratification will also be addressed. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Question 252-13(4): Funding For Constitutional Consultation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Henry.
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for Ms. Thompson, the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. I wonder if the Minister could inform the House on the transfer of GNWT assets to communities. How is it going? What is the schedule like? Maybe some communities and some particular assets that already have been transferred.
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. We have three questions asked. Ms Thompson.
Return To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can get back to the Member with all the details of his questions. I do not have all the details with me. I do have a list of all the transfers that have happened across the territories, but it is going to take quite a while to read all that information, so I will get it packaged up together and give it to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary.
Supplementary To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to make this one worthwhile then, eh? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I only received one answer from the three that I gave there. Mr. Speaker, we are all aware of the costs associated with environmental cleanup. Was there discussion with the communities as to whose responsibility such a cost would be in the event that there would be a requirement for environmental cleanup? I would draw the Minister's attention to one particular environmental cleanup that had to take place here in the city of Yellowknife, where one particular lot has spent, to date, over one million dollars just cleaning the results of spills and leakage from fuel tanks. So the question to the Minister is, has there been any discussion with communities as to who is responsible for the liability for such an event? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Ms Thompson.
Further Return To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 444
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
I understand that this issue is an ongoing discussion with the communities and I will have to
get back to the Member with more detail when I get it from my department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Question 253-13(4): Asset Transfer To Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Roland.
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will go to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services. Once again, on the issue of fetal alcohol effects and fetal alcohol syndrome, can the Minister make us aware in this House what funding has been put towards FAE/FAS? Thank you.
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are speaking of the reinvestment dollars that I spoke of earlier. I cannot speak of the specifics because it is an overall four and a half million dollars, I believe, from existing funds with the Department of Education, Culture, and Employment. Plus, I believe, $3 million reinvestment dollars that we have targeted for this current fiscal year. So, I do not know the specifics of the breakdown of where each category would be funded, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.
Supplementary To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform me and this House if or how communities will be able to access this funding? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the funding mechanism is still one of the aspects of the whole strategy that is being worked on currently by departmental officials within the social envelope. So that has not been finalized yet or determined, but once it has gone through the Social Envelope Committee, it will go through the Cabinet, and more than likely through the Social Programs Committee, and back out to Members once that is finalized, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.
Supplementary To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister inform us when this might happen? Is there a certain time line on it, a number of months, weeks, years?
Supplementary To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the goal is to have the monies available and accessible by April 1st. As I indicated, there are staff members that are working on this as one of the priorities within the social envelope at this time and I do not have the definite time lines on when each process will be finished. But like I said, it is with the intent of getting the monies accessible by April 1st of this year, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Question 254-13(4): Funding For Fas/fae
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. The new direction of the Department of Health and Social Services' proposed alcohol and drug treatment is consistent with community empowerment. As we transfer more programs and dollars to the communities and regional levels, training will be critical to help community workers to do a better job. Does the Minister support training in the area of alcohol and drug treatment training? Thank you.
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, we do support training in all aspects of any health or social services program providers to our constituents, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Department of Health and Social Services provide funding to the alcohol and drug counselling certificate program being offered at the Hay River Reserve, which trains community workers? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe, currently, the department does provide, I believe it is a $100,000 to provide that training certificate program on the Hay River Reserve, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 445
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we all know, in regards to training, this is a two-year program in which the second year of the program provides training which will greatly enhance community empowerment. Courses like: program management, needs assessment, community development, and so on. This is basically what is developed in this program. Will the Minister make every attempt to ensure that funding is available for the second year of the A and D counselling certificate program? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that particular program is currently under review and the funding that we provide for that program at the current time, because of the fact that in response to the question last week I believe, I indicated that both Aurora and Nunavut Arctic College do provide alcohol and drug worker training programs right now, so there is perceived to be a duplication of providing that program, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Mr. Speaker, in regards to reviewing the program, did the Minister also take into account that the individuals who are presently enrolled in this program in Hay River, have just completed their first year, so they do need to complete their second year? What is the Minister going to do to ensure that they have the opportunity to complete the second year of that program?
Supplementary To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would make a concerted effort with my honourable colleague, the Minister of Education, Culture, and Employment, to make sure that the second year program would be accessible to those students that are completing their first year of study so that they could receive their certificates or diplomas, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Question 255-13(4): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Training
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.
Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, I received an inquiry from a constituent who informs me that a few years ago, the Legislative Assembly decided that when drivers' licences were issued, the government would not keep a photo. When they make the licences they take your
photograph and there are two pictures there and they use one for the licence, which is laminated, and the other one is supposed to be destroyed. But recently, my constituent went to renew his licence and the additional photo was not destroyed. He is wondering what has occurred in the ensuing years so that the government is now keeping that extra picture, because he remembers very well that the lady that took his picture five years ago made a big deal of it. She said, "Look, I am destroying your other picture," and she shredded it right in front of him. Has anything occurred to change this?
Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.
Return To Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the point that the honourable Member is making, I am not aware of the practice. When I received my drivers' licence, they took two pictures and they put one on the card and they gave me back the other, so I do not know what the real practice is there. I will check on it and I will get back to the Member. Thank you.
Return To Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Question 256-13(4): Drivers' Licence Photographs
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice. A number of days ago I stood up in this House and I related the situation in Hay River, whereby the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre cuts wood and formerly, used to sell it to seniors in our community for $55 a cord. Mr. Speaker, the winter is ticking by, our seniors can not access that wood for $55 a cord right now and I am very anxious to hear what precipitated the loss of this service at that price. Thank you.
Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I did have an opportunity to check on the issue after the honourable Member brought it up earlier. As I indicated, the licence for allowing the cutting of firewood is the responsibility of Renewable Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development. Our staff have actually set up a meeting to discuss this issue with the RWED officials, tomorrow I believe, and try to resolve this situation to allow for a lower rate for seniors. Mr. Speaker, thank you.
Return To Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Question 257-13(4): Fuel Wood For Seniors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 446
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am just a little confused over the past couple of days with the response just now from the Premier and the earlier questioning. Mr. Steen asked about the privatization again and the Premier sent that to another Minister. So my question to the Premier is, what is going on here? If we want to privatize airports, I do not ask the Transport Minister, I ask Mr. Kakfwi,
because he is the privatization Minister. If we want to privatize a health centre, I do not ask the Health Minister, I have to ask Mr. Kakfwi. Can the Minister explain this to me, what is going on here is that the Members, myself, Mr. Steen, we know who to ask questions to?
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Premier.
Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As far as the privatization and any privatization questions on POL, refer your questions to Mr. Kakfwi. Thank you.
Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, do I take it from that maybe there was a problem with one of the committees, specifically the Infrastructure Committee, that it did not seem conducive to that committee about the privatization of POL so now the responsibility has gone to another Minister so that other committee might be more conducive to this initiative. Is that what I am hearing?
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is seeing boogey men again.
-- Laughter
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
But, let me assure you, I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I did call you Mr. Chairman, I do apologize for that, Mr. Speaker. Let me assure the Member the reason privatization is under Mr. Kakfwi now is because he is the Minister responsible for Economic Development. Privatization is creating business opportunities in the north and that is the reason. There is nobody hiding in the closet or sneaking around. Let me assure him of that. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Edward Picco Iqaluit
The last time someone mentioned boogey men in this House, I think the Auditor General got kind of upset if I remember correctly. Mr. Speaker, I am asking ...
-- Applause
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Edward Picco Iqaluit
... legitimate question here. I am not trying to cause adversary to the Premier. I am not trying to find boogey men or create a crisis or anything like that.
-- Laughter
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Edward Picco Iqaluit
So, my question, Mr. Speaker, to the Premier, if I want to ask a question on the privatization of POL or any privatization initiative of this government here with I have to address one Minister. Is that correct? And that Minister is the Minister of privatization.
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just on process. Prior to us starting any privatization initiatives on other things than what is on the books right now, POL and computers; we would be going forward with that plan to the committee and the responsible Minister would be taking it there. For now the privatization of POL is in Mr. Kakfwi's hands. So, he will do the work on that issue. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the privatization initiative is now under the portfolio of Mr. Kakfwi, but the Department of Public Works and POL is under the ministership of Mr. Arlooktoo. That is the Department of DPW which is the Infrastructure Committee. So does that mean the Infrastructure Committee will meet with the Renewal Resource Committee when we talk about the privatization of POL or does it mean that Mr. Kakfwi will now come to the Infrastructure Committee and give us an overview of the privatization of POL? That is what I am trying to get at. Where does it go from here?
Supplementary To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Both Ministers can appear in front of any committee if the committee chooses to ask them to appear. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Question 258-13(4): Privatization Portfolio
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Steen. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question again is to Ms. Thompson, the Minister responsible for Municipal and Communities Affairs. Mr. Speaker, I will try to get one question in and one answer. The Minister has already confirmed today that they has indeed been transfer of assets to communities. My question is who is responsible for any environmental spill that will undoubtedly happen at sometime. Who is responsible, is it the GNWT or is it the municipal government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 447
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Mr. Premier.
Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Environmental spills, it would depend on who did the environmental spill and in which community and how it happened. Whether it is our buildings, or somebody else, I would not really be able to give this good question a just answer unless it was specific. So, it would depend on who did the spill, that is ultimately who would be responsible. Thank you.
Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. I again remind the Members that the Premier is entitled to take any question he wishes to respond to. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.
Supplementary To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize. I did say the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, but whoever wishes to answer, that is fine, Mr. Speaker. Do communities understand that if there was something spilled prior to them taking over the asset, it will be the GNWT that is responsible for any cleanup?
Supplementary To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister for MACA stated earlier today that is presently part of the negotiations and discussions at the community level of how environmental issues will be handled. For example, if a community took over a school and the school had old fuel tanks there, all those things have to be assessed. They have to be assessed anyhow, according to the laws of the federal government now. So, we would have to do that to make sure they are environmentally intact and there was no environmental contamination. That would be the same as privatization, for example, of POL tanks. If there was anything there, then we would have to take care of it and make sure we have all the checks and balances in place prior to the official turnover to the other party.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.
Supplementary To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, is the Minister telling me assets that already have been transferred to communities, but there has been no decision made who is responsible for prior spills or future environmental damage. The assets that have already been transferred. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Presently, the department is working with the communities on community transfer initiatives as well as transfer of capital buildings over
to the communities and the question that the Member raises is one of the concerns that have to be addressed and we are discussing that with the communities, and hopefully we will come to a successful conclusion. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Final supplementary.
Supplementary To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, for greater clarity there has been assets transferred to the communities but nobody has decided yet who is responsible for any environmental cleanup. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a responsibility of the government to negotiate with the communities and to facilitate with the communities community empowerment. One of those issues that has to be addressed through community empowerment is when we turn buildings over, and when we turn buildings over we have to make sure, the same as we made sure from the federal government when buildings were turned over to this government from the federal government. We made sure as part of those negotiations, for example, in health centres and renewable resource bases, things of that nature, we made sure that we had protection to protect this government from any environmental cleanup that happened in the past so that we would not take on a liability of an environmental nature.
For example, if a fuel tank was there, it would cost a lot of money to take that fuel tank out of the ground, take all that dirt out of the ground and dispose of it and put a new one back in. So we had to make sure as a territorial government that we protected our interest and in no way are we going to go into a community and set a community up for failure. So we will make sure that by facilitating, not negotiating, by facilitating with the communities, talking, having an open degree of discussion with them on environmental issues, because there are environmental issues. For example, even uranium coming out of Great Bear Lake, many, many years ago. There is environmental contaminated soils on the shores of Great Slave Lake and that land possibly belongs to the Government of the Northwest Territories. So prior to turning it over, we would have to make sure ...
-- Laughter
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
to make absolutely sure. Mr. Speaker, it is very tough to continue to talk with ...
-- Laughter
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
to make very sure that...
-- Applause
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 448
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
May we have some order please. Question period is over. Item 7, written questions. Mr. Picco.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 449
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to return to oral questions.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 6, oral questions. Do we have any nays? You do not have unanimous consent. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Krutko.
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 449
Further Return To Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Question 259-13(4): Responsibility For Environmental Liabilities
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to return to written questions. Do we have any nays? You have unanimous consent. Mr. Krutko.
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Finance in regards to the insurance of education facilities. Could the Minister provide the following information relating to government owned schools: What is their replacement cost policy? What is the definition of replacement cost? What is the purpose the GNWT to make the claim under this policy? What is the link between the insurance policy received and the amount spent for new facilities?
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Mr. Speaker, may I please seek unanimous consent to return to recognition of visitors in the gallery for one moment. Thank you.
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Do we have any nays? You have unanimous consent. Ms. Groenewegen.
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a pleasure to recognize in the gallery today someone who, when she is at home she is in my constituency, and she is at work, she is in yours, Mr. Speaker. Joanne Barnaby, the executive director of the Dene Cultural Institute.
-- Applause
Written Question 13-13(4): Insurance For Education Facilities
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Welcome to the Assembly. Replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Ootes.
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 449
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table a book, Tabled Document No. 39-13(4), called, Fly Fishing in the Northwest Territories of Canada by Chris Hanks.
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Tabling of documents. I would like to table Tabled Document 40-13(4) Election of the 13th
Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, 1995, Official Voting Results. Tabling of documents. Mr. Krutko.
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 449
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Treaty 11 Agreement, Tabled Document No. 41-13(4), so that everybody can see it. It does exist. It is here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Todd.
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Bill 9: Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1996-97
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 449
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by my honourable Member for Kitikmeot, that Bill 9, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1996-97 be read for the first time. Thank you.
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 449
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried. Bill 9 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 8, Committee Report 2-13(4), Committee Report 3-13(4), and Tabled Document 20-13(4) with Mr. Ningark in the chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I would like to call the committee to order. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98; Committee Report 2-13(4), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the 1997/98 Main Estimates; Committee Report 3-13(4), Standing Committee on Infrastructure Report on the 1997/98 Main Estimates; and Tabled Document 20-13(4), Report of the Joint Working Group on the Business Incentive Policy. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Ningark. That we consider Bill 8 and Committee Report 2-13(4) and Committee Report 3-13(4) concurrently.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Do we agree?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Do you want to continue now or do you want to break? What is the wish? We will take a 10 minute break. Thank you.
-- Break
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
The Chair John Ningark
The committee will come back to order. On page 2-31 human resource management. I would like to ask Mr. Todd if he wants to bring in a witness at this time before we get into the activity, line-by-line.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 449
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman. I would be only too happy to bring my witnesses in if that is okay with everybody.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
The man with the nice hair, Mr. Todd wishes to bring in the witnesses. Do we have agreement?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Proceed. Sergeant-at-Arms.
-- Pause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd, for the record, would you please introduce the witness to the committee.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
John Todd Keewatin Central
On my immediate right is Mr. Voytilla, deputy minister of FMBS. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Welcome Mr. Voytilla.
-- Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
During the past two weeks, the chairs of this committee we have been pretty lenient with Members. The time when Members will sway to another issue which is not in the activity and on to another topic. I would like to remind all the Members to try and stay within the topic that is being considered. In this case we are dealing with human resource management. I would ask the Members to stay within that. There are times when Members will move to another topic which is another activity to be considered later. Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance, $5,023,000. Mr. Krutko and Mr. Picco. Mr. Krutko. We are on page 2-31, human resource management under the Finance Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Picco and Mr. Krutko. Mr. Krutko did you want to speak at this time? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to the human resource management of the affirmative action policy, there is a lot of speculation and a lot of statements made in that area. Exactly what is the priority of this government when it comes to the affirmative action policy? We have heard a lot of incidents where individuals who are aboriginal, born and raised here, lived here all their lives, work for government 10, 15 years have been let go and yet there are individuals who are not affirmative action candidates but have worked in the government, especially in the managerial area who are brought in and then paid out and then let go and brought back. I do not there is a fair process to the individuals who are affirmative action candidates versus those who are not. That is why the policy was put in place. Is that the priority of this government? Is that the practise of this government? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We have Mr. Picco and Mr. Steen after Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
John Todd Keewatin Central
No, it is not the practise of this government.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to the practise of the government, I have a problem with individuals who have been compensated for time served and also given a compensation package because they were leaving the government and then hired back on through another mechanism, either contract or developed a consultant business. That was the point of the affirmative action policy to ensure that would be some protection mechanism there for aboriginal and long-term northerners, who have made this place their home, born and raised here to have the ability to provide for themselves and maintain a lifestyle in the north and remain in the north. That is the problem I have with it.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
First of all, I do not quite understand the gentleman's question but I will try to answer this way, because you have to put this whole darn thing in perspective. There were 358 employees that were laid off. There are eight employees that have been rehired after the notice period was over. We have gone on and on about this for the last two days. Give me some specifics, instead of this innuendo, generalization because it is simply not fact. I will deal with it.
At some point, we have to get on with dealing with the budget. I am saying to you, Mr. Chairman, that if the Member has specific instances with respect to his concerns, we will deal with them. I cannot deal with generalities, unsubstantiated concerns and I am not trying to be difficult but let us get specific if that is the case. I am told 358 people were issued layoffs, out of that eight have been rehired after the notice period was over. That is what I am told.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Maybe I will point in the direction in regards to the Department of Health and Social Services. That is an area you can look at and see exactly if the practise has been practised in regards to that department. That is as close as I will point you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Okay. That is my point. I am saying if Mr. Krutko wishes to be specific, we are prepared to deal with it. I am giving you the facts as we see them. This is what I am told. I do not see this as a major issue at this time. But we will look into Health and Social Services. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We do have two other Members of this committee that wish to speak. Mr. Krutko. Final for the time being? Okay. Thank you. I have Mr. Picco and Mr. Steen. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 450
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I feel a great pleasure today in being able to speak on the topic of human resource management and the government's central labour relations and human resource management functions, which include the provision of job evaluation services. Going back to 1974 when I worked in the hen farm, in that position
where there was no union involvement, which caused quite considerable pain for us.
Moving on then into 1980, when I was working in a fish plant in Newfoundland, we did not have a unionized shop there. Thus, when Labour Day came, we were working 70 and 80 hours a week. We complained to labour relations and we won a contract settlement. In the next position I had, I did not have a unionized shop. So the unions do perform a service.
After giving a little bit of a background on that, I will go ahead to 1987, when I was President of the Union of Northern Workers and on the negotiating team. In giving that kind of background and history, when I was President and also a member of the negotiating team and a shop steward and that kind of wonderful stuff, I think I am qualified to speak on this area of labour relations.
Mr. Chairman, the Northwest Territories at this time has never had a situation with such low morale in our Public Service. The introduction of the Public Service Act and the subsequent amendments last year, drove a stake through the hearts of the unionized movement here in the Northwest Territories. That is why I voted against it. Coming out of that, the director of labour services for the government, Mr. Herb Hunt - the union had a problem working with him.
Now I am leading into my question here for Mr. Todd and Mr. Voytilla. Can the Minister update us right now as to the status of the labour relations, the disagreement that our major union, the Union of Northern Workers, the Executive of Northern Workers, and the rank and file had with the labour relations service and the Labour Relations Board, for which Mr. Herb Hunt works. I wonder what the status is now of that working relationship, because the union had said at one time they did not want to deal with that individual and for x-number of reasons.
So my question would be, what is the status now of the relationship there?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you. I thought maybe we were in story time. Mr. Chairman, I want to assure my honourable colleague, who gave us a lengthy dissertation on his history and involvement in the union movement when he was minimum-waging it in Newfoundland and Portugal Cove, that the relationship between my department and the loyal staff that we have with the executive of the UNW is reasonable, it is professional, and it is continuing as it did before.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under human resource management, I understand that Mr. Todd is saying that, at the present time, the relationship between the top government personnel people under the human management resource functions of this government seem to be at a cordial level. Is that what he is saying?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Chairman. We are really cordial right now.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the major aspects of one of the disputes that we have had with our organized labour over the past year goes back several years. It goes back to the challenging of the government, and the government being the Northwest Territorial Government, on the pay equity issue which has not been resolved to date.
We are aware, of course, Mr. Chairman, that there were some issuances of writs in the court, which I understand in the last bit of information that I had available to me, that the Government of Canada is now investigating this. Now, with that situation in the courts, there is a contingency of anywhere between $30 - $40 million, I believe, liability, if the GNWT loses the pay equity challenge in the Federal Court.
I would like to ask the Minister at this time for an update on the situation regarding pay equity and the dispute thus far with the Union of Northern Workers.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I do not know if Mr. Todd will be able to reply to what is under consideration by the courts. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
John Todd Keewatin Central
We never quantified at any time, in this government, what the cost of the pay equity situation would be, so I think we should correct that. The situation, in my understanding, was in the courts and I believe there was some ruling yesterday and we are re-examining that and I am not, at this time, prepared to respond, but I will later on next week.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Final, Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
Edward Picco Iqaluit
I think I am allowed to ask as many questions, Mr. Chairman, as possible, so this is not a final. Mr. Todd is correct, there was a ruling yesterday which has major implications for this government and our liability. And he says now he is going to address it next week in the House. Is he going to make a statement on the court ruling yesterday, or what happened yesterday, maybe he could update us on that?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I do not know why the Member would want an update from me. He has obviously received it from his brothers in the union movement. I do not have the ruling yesterday. I do not have it in writing at this time and when I get it, I will respond in a timely manner and in a manner and a time that I will determine.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management, Mr. Picco. We have three more minutes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 451
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think a lot of people are interested in this line of questioning but I will just back off a little bit and give somebody else a chance on that area, and I would like to move on by saying to Mr.
Todd, when he says, my brothers in the union, the union, as everyone knows, is brothers and sisters, and we cannot forget those people out there of the other gender who make such a great contribution to the Northwest Territories in whatever role they play. I just want to put that on the record.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I would like to remind all Members, including Ministers, when you are responding to a question, try and not provoke an argument or debate. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
You have to have two to argue, I suppose. Mr. Picco is entitled to his opinion, as he normally is. I have already said that we have not seen the reading on this ruling that he is implying is done. When we do, I will take whatever steps are necessary to report to the House and to my colleagues in Cabinet on what actions we intend to take. I am not in a position, today, to respond to that and Mr. Picco knows that. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. We have Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was not trying to imply to the Minister and it does take two to debate, in fact, we have one here. Following up on that earlier comment, I did not say that there was a ruling yesterday, I was reading on what he said and we checked the Hansard. It will say that he had heard about it at the ruling yesterday. He said that first and I responded to it. Going on to the provision of job evaluation services, could the Minister update me on what is happening now with job evaluation services. I understand that there are some new tools or mechanisms in place that we are looking at for job performance evaluations and such?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
Well, it takes two to tango and I am not going to tango. We are in the middle right now, Mr. Chairman, of this very serious issue, job equity and pay equity, et cetera, in putting together a new system in place to bring about the changes that are necessary to meet the demands that are being requested by our employees, and et cetera. So, we are in the throes of doing that right now.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We have 45 seconds. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Mr. Chairman, following up on that, when will that be available for us to have a look at it, the file evaluations and why is that clock ticking?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
Well this is an ongoing issue that I am told, has been going on for about 10 years. We are anticipating that we will try to conclude it by the end of this summer. The job evaluation system. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We have 10 seconds, Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Yes, I would suggest that after 10 years we should bring closure to that area. Moving on, in compensation services, I wonder if the Minister can tell me what or even the approximate amount, I see Mr. Voytilla is in the chair also, of our pay outs to-date for those layoff packages that we have put into place, where we laid off employees? Because some of these, of course, worked for the government for a long time and we are paying them over 52 weeks or 48 weeks in some instances. Is there guesstimate or approximation of how much we are paying out right now in compensation for layoffs?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We have run out of time for you, Mr. Picco. We will allow other Members to speak and then you will have another opportunity, once Members who have not spoken yet, have spoken. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
$6,134,105 and no cents.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen. We have Mr. Ootes. Human resource management. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to have the Minister just explain a few things and give us some information with regards to the reductions, which we already have in the numbers of staff, for example, in the headquarters area we have 242 PY reductions. I am wondering if the Minister has available the figures of how many positions would be empty of those numbers or not filled?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
No, I do not have the information.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd, could you repeat your reply please, for the Member.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
No, I do not have that information.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 452
John Todd Keewatin Central
I am not trying to avoid the question. It is difficult to quantify it because we are still working on it. Once we get the budget approved, then begin the implementation, and we are going to try to, as I said and have said until I am blue in the face, try to avoid as many layoffs as possible through the strategies that I have talked about, and I do not think I have to repeat them. So, it would be, on the one hand I would want to answer the question, as my honourable colleague does, but on the other hand, it would be difficult to be firm on what they are going to be, because as we work through it, like for young layoffs, and we find new job opportunities for those people on layoffs, we move them over.
So, I guess the best way I could answer that would be to say, as I have consistently said, it is the intention of the downsizing strategy, and the layoffs associated with it, for us to work with the individual employees to provide them with a number of options. One, new job opportunities that may be there. Two, retraining. Three, the severance package that we have talked about, et cetera. It would be difficult for me to quantifiably say that this is what I think the actual layoffs will be. But I will take a look at it and see if there is some way I could give my honourable colleague some indication of what we think the percentage might be based on some of the stuff we have done this last year. Thank you.
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management activity. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Mr. Chairman, the reason for my question is, I am trying to get an idea of the impact upon the community and it is easy to speak about 242 PYs, but at the end of the day it is nice to know if it is only 140 and so, hence the reason for wanting to know, because also it affects employees, it effects business people. Perhaps, just another question, Mr. Chairman, would be, are there any of these positions, I know that we have had some transfers to boards and agencies and so forth, are any of these positions proposed to be transferred to any boards or agencies or privatization?
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I understand where my colleague is coming from and I understand his concern. He has, as others have, a legitimate concern that they have to address. I am not trying to avoid it, I want to answer your first question. Again I am not trying to avoid saying it is not this amount or that amount. What I am making a commitment to is to try to manage our way so that the layoffs are minimal. That is what we are trying to say and I will endeavour to try to figure our what might be a percentage of what we think might happen. On the transfer of positions through boards, agencies, et cetera, it is roughly 92 positions.
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The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Mr. Ootes.
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Would that be 92 positions for all 480, some positions, or is it across the board?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mahsi. Mr. Minister.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Maybe I should clarify for everybody's sake the total positions that we are anticipating that could be gone are 530. Out of that, 92 of them will go to boards so the net position reductions is 438. All reductions are across the board. The 92 that will be transferred to boards is also across the board. Again, I stress to you and I think it is important to stress, because it is a serious issue, this we are going to try to manage our way as best we can to reduce, as much as we can, the layoffs that are anticipated through a series of initiatives as I said earlier. Whether it is looking for new jobs, re-educating and retraining, or in some cases, severance packages. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
The 438 would be PYs. When we dealt with the amalgamation of Renewable Resources, Wildlife, and
Economic Development, they have completed all of their downsizing, I understand. I am just wondering if some of the 438, if some of that already has taken place, because again, it would make a difference in the impact upon our community.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you. First of all, I have to correct myself. I was talking about positions, not PYs, because there is a difference. There are positions, 438. My understanding, when I look at the information, there are no additional layoffs in the amalgamated RWED Department. They have all taken place next year. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Could the Minister tell us if some of that has already taken place? Again, I am curious and specifically in headquarters is my main area of concern, if there is, hypothetically, 242 in that neighbourhood. Could some have already taken place that we have already felt the impact, rather than having to anticipate the impact of it?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Voytilla advises me that due to a number of reasons, one being the collective agreement, et cetera, that most of the employees who are going to be laid off have already been advised, either by letter or orally, by their employers. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Human resource management, total operations and maintenance. We have Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the Minister aware of each department and the number of positions that may be vacant in departments? Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. The Honourable Minister for Finance, Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Well of course, Mr. Chairman. Vacancies happen on an ongoing basis so it would be difficult to say today that there are x-vacancies, because tomorrow there could be less or there could be more. But, I believe I said yesterday, it was yesterday was it not? Yes, I believe I said yesterday that when we did the cuts the first time, there were a significant amount of jobs vacant, we know that, we know positions are vacant, and that is where we took the first slice, if you want. So that avoided a greater degree of layoffs by our employees. Most of those vacant positions, or what I call, vacant PYs or whatever you want to call them, really are pretty well gone now. So I suspect that vacant positions will be minimal because of the exercise we did the first year. Does that make sense?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that this may be a question better directed to the Minister responsible
for Renewable Resources and I will do when he is available to do that. My understanding is that there is a significant amount
of positions in that department that are vacant. Is the Minister of FMBS aware of that?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
No, I cannot tell. I deal with the fiscal management of the government and really that would be a question better put to the Minister when he comes forward. All I can tell you is what the policy of this government is, and that is to try to fill vacant positions with employees that are on layoff. They get priority status and, where we cannot do that, to try to retrain and provide training, and where we cannot do that we then work an appropriate severance package out. So I would suggest to my honourable colleague that if, in fact, there are, as he implies, significant vacancies there, he should ask that of the other Minister when his budget comes forward. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you. I know the Minister did touch on it, but I would just like him to confirm again that all layoffs, people that are being laid off because of this next fiscal budget for beginning April 1, all those people have at least a couple of months ago or so or at least have received layoff notices as of today. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I cannot unequivocally say that all. I know that there are layoff notices that have gone out. Oral discussions have taken place with the staff and it is certainly the intent over the next little while for these notices to go out. So there may be some employees who have not received the actual letter of layoff but they have been told orally that it is coming.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So is it fair to say then that every person that is getting laid off because of the presentation of the 1997/98 year budget either knows about it or has received written notification that they will no longer be required?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I cannot give my honourable colleague that assurance that everyone who is going to be laid off has received either oral or written notice. Sorry. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We are considering Human resource management. Yes, Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So then there are potentially some employees presently who may still be, their positions may be terminated? Is that what the Minister is telling us and I guess I take it for granted but rather than take it for granted maybe the Minister can confirm it, will they be receiving a three month notice as a minimum if they have not received written notice of layoff? Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I am having some difficulty with the line of questioning because I think we are getting into asking the Minister of his opinion? Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
All employees are entitled to a three month layoff notice.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is what I wanted. I think the Minister has answered it that any employees that have not received layoff notices that are going to be laid off will receive a minimum of three months notice. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I believe that was affirmative the Minister signified. Before I recognize the next speaker, in this case, Mr. Erasmus, on behalf of Mr. Ng and myself I would like to recognize in the Public Gallery, Bernice Lyall, a youth activist and one of the future leaders from the Kitikmeot Region. Welcome, please.
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. We are considering human resource management. I believe Mr. Erasmus wanted to speak.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just following up on Mr. Henry's line of questioning, are there more anticipated layoffs that are going to be happening soon due to this budget?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Layoffs will be as I outlined the 438. We have tried to give as much early notice as Mr. Henry has spoken on a number of occasions on the telephone, which is important. Some may not have got their notice but when they do they will get a 90 day notice. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Human resource management. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday the Minister had indicated that he would have some information for me today regarding the casual budget from last year. I was wondering if he had that available?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Indeed I do. On this activity, $162,000 for casual wages for 95/96. We are projecting $77,000 for this coming year and $77,000 for the following year, just in terms of the check and balances but it was $162,000 last year.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of those casual positions, how many of the people that filled those positions were aboriginal people?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Well, I knew Mr. Erasmus would probably ask this question and I did ask the staff yesterday if we could get it in anticipation of the question. But we have to dig through all the causal wages and it just is impossible for me to get them on such short notice so while I would like to answer today, I am unable to do so because it would require significant amount of work to dig it out of the files to determine who was aboriginal and who was not. Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister would be good enough to include all affirmative action candidates in that information?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Chairman, we will do that and actually it is probably a good time to do it because then it will provide us with some statistical factual positions for this government when we get into the debate on affirmative action. So I think that is probably a good question and I think that we will get it done and I look forward to as I say, a fairly healthy debate on affirmative action, when we table it in the House and this will provide us with some stimulus to discuss it. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the same time would the Minister be able to provide us with information on people who may have served consecutive terms of casual employment?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Todd?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes I think I understand. If they got a six month term and then it gets renewed for another six months? Okay, yes. If we are digging for this other stuff we may as well dig for all of it.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also yesterday the Minister had indicated that he would provide the House with information on how many grievances were filed last year.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Chairman. We are ready for that one too. Mr. Chairman I do not know if it is complete because we had to work long into the night, the staff, to get this information but this last year to date, we had 39 grievances at what they call the first level, 10 resolved at the first level. We have 43 grievances moved to the second level and nine resolved at the second level. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Todd?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I am told I had better get it right or I may be chastised. Moved/filed at the second level was 43. Resolved at the second level was nine. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Could we get an indication of what first level, second level, third level actually means?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you do not mind, because Mr. Voytilla is far more versed in this than I am, I would ask him to respond to it so to give him an opportunity to be on TV and his children will see him tonight.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Voytilla.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Voytilla
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First level means a grievance that is dealt with by the supervisor level position in the department. Second level grievances get escalated to the deputy minister level or deputy head level of the department or the board and third level grievances are dealt with at the chairman to the Financial Management Board level.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate Mr. Voytilla's information. Yesterday the Minister had indicated that 33 grievances were sent to arbitration. If it is sent to arbitration, what does that mean? Does that mean that the grievance has been upheld and it is a matter of what has to be done to solve it or what does that mean?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
What it means, Mr. Chairman, is of course that as we walk through the first, second and third level of the grievance, that we have not been able to resolve the issue. That the last level of action is arbitration, which is given to a third party who is...The third party is agreed to by both parties, both the union and ourselves and then it goes to arbitration and this party makes a ruling on it. My understanding this ruling is then final. Is that correct?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Voytilla
That is correct.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
That this ruling, once it has gone to arbitration, in which both parties have selected the arbitrator, is final. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those numbers that Mr. Voytilla or the Minster had provided us with, were those the ones that were only the ones that were filed or did those, the grievances, or do those also include the ones that were ongoing and were filed in the previous year?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister. Did you want to make your capable staff respond at your discretion, Mr. Minister?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes I will ask Mr. Voytilla if he does not mind to answer the question.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Voytilla.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Voytilla
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The numbers that the Minister quoted were third level grievances that arose during the course of that fiscal year. Last year, yesterday I think he quoted 1995 numbers which were in total 33. That is not all of the grievances that are sitting at the arbitration level however.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. We are running out of time. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those grievances that are sitting at the arbitration level, can we get an indication of which departments, boards, agencies, college, whatever, the number for each area?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The allotted time for you has run out. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you. Sent to arbitration 5 - FMBS, 1 at MACA, 1 at Transportation, 8 in Public Works (I think), 1 in Renewable Resources, 2 in Education, 5 in Justice, South Sahtu Divisional Board - 1, my apologies, South Slave Divisional Board of Education - 1, Fort Smith Health Centre - 1, Keewatin Regional Health Board - 2, Mackenzie Regional Health Board Services - 4, Stanton Regional Hospital - 2. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We are on to page 2-31, human resource management, operation and maintenance total is $5,023,000. Do you agree? Mr. Ootes?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to clarify a point from before and some understanding for the public and the staff. On the 438 outside of that; I appreciate I am not dealing hypothetically but to the Minister's knowledge, will further notices go out to employees beyond this 438? To the Minister's knowledge today?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
No, I mean, barring a catastrophe and the requirement for this government to do more. No, this budget will balance it as I said earlier last week and these numbers are required to do that so it is not anticipated that there will be any additional cuts. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Ootes, are you okay with that? Mr. Ootes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Mr. Chairman. Yes, that is what I was after. I wanted assurance that we were not looking at layoffs beyond this figure to the best of the knowledge of the Minister at the present time and that provides some assurance, I think for the employees and for the general public. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. You have no questions? Total operations and maintenance is $5,023,000. Mr. Erasmus.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday the Minister had indicated in 1995 there were 69 appeals and that 19 were upheld. This is approximately 28 percent. Is this not an unusually high amount of appeals to be upheld or is it always close to 30 percent that are upheld?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I think it would be fair to say that there is not any trend here. I think that it varies depending on the circumstances on an annual basis. I am just checking on the year before. It was 22 percent the year before and we are looking at 28 percent in 1995, 22 percent in 1994.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd. Total operations and maintenance, $5,023,000. Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Total expenditures, $5,023,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Page 2-32, government accounting, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance, $11,196,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Agreed. Thank you. Total expenditures, $11,196,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Page 2-33, audit, budgeting and evaluation, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $3,455,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Total expenditures, $3,455,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Page 2-34, details of grants and contributions. Total contributions $7,710,000. Mr. Miltenberger.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was wondering whether the Minister could indicate on the million dollar increase as to the reasons why. Is it mainly the increase in fuel prices? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 456
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
This has been a general growth in this area and not just in this last year but in previous years. It is primarily due to the fact that there has been an enormous
thrust in terms of this government in getting out of housing and making houses privately owned where the subsidy comes in. Two, just the natural growth within the Territories in terms of new housing and, three, I would think that the cost of fuel and other expenditures are also a factor. I have had discussions about this at some length, Mr. Dent. It is primarily due to the fact that you have a growth in domestic utilization by individual house owners who own and operate their own houses. As you know, the last three or four years because of the cut to the Housing Corporation's social budget by the federal government, this arbitrary cut, the Minister, this Minister and the previous ones who worked hard to bring in privately owned incentives for people to own their own homes, there has clearly been an acceleration that has put more demand on the subsidy program and it is growing yearly and it is something we definitely need to address. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Miltenberger.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Is the Minister able to indicate the breakdown, you said that - I understand the domestic subsidy is the largest part of the $6,800,000, or will be?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
It is the primary part of it but there is a commercial subsidy as well. In 1995 the domestic subsidy was 5.5 million, give or take a few dollars, and the commercial subsidy was roughly $350,000. You are talking 95 percent of the budget - or the subsidy on the domestic side. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Details of grants and contributions. Contributions, Mr. Miltenberger.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The concern in this area since fuel is probably one of the biggest costs that the territorial government has and by extension the powers costs, is the whole focus that we now have on subsidies in this area, where it seems to me with the cost of oil going up and prices of power not decreasing, we have to look as well at making some investments in the area of energy savings - energy efficiencies. We cannot afford to keep subsidizing leaky buildings, totally inefficient fuel operations, furnaces or else we will be back here year after year with millions of dollars added, whereas we could be utilizing considerable savings looking at things like the district heating in Fort McPherson, those kind of initiatives. It is something I well imagine that the Minister could speak to specifically as a government Minister. It is something I would like to pass on to you for your comment. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I think that it is understood by all parties, I agreed there is a genuine concern out there that this subsidy continues to soar. It ultimately comes out of the retained earnings of the Power Corporation which ultimately has to go back in through rate increases or whatever. I think that this is a serious issue. It is not just the cost versus the revenues. It is also, as Mr. Miltenberger says, it needs to be more energy efficient, and I know in our discussions that is one of the issues that we are talking about and things like greater utilization of the waste heat, for example, in Fort McPherson, I
believe in my own home town they are utilizing it as well with the Public Works offices, et cetera. There is an anxiety out there about this expenditure and how it is funded. I concur that we need to move to find some satisfactory solutions. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Contributions. Total contributions is $7,710,000. Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this par subsidy at $6,800, I wonder if the Minister or his officials could give a quick explanation of what it is. I think, because of the large amount of money, I think it is important that the people of the territories have an understanding of where this money goes and what it is for. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. On the accounting, Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, I wish it was $6,800. $6,800,000 on the domestic subsidy. It is clear that the domestic subsidy program provides us this discount to all NWT residents - users outside of Yellowknife, whose power rates are higher than the Yellowknife area, get the first 700 kilowatt hours per month, okay? That is on the domestic side. In other words, they get that subsidy. Anything above that, they pay the full rate. The commercial subsidy provides a discount to northern businesses located outside of Yellowknife whose power rates are hard in Yellowknife and whose gross revenue is less than $2,000,000 per year. The subsidies for small businesses is the difference between the community costs and the Yellowknife cost for kilowatt hours and can soar up to 1,000 kilowatts a month. So, on the domestic side, you get a subsidy, the difference between 700 kilowatt costs in Yellowknife versus what it costs you in Rankin Inlet. On the commercial side, you get the same principle subsidy at 1,000 kilowatts and if it is for companies that have got smaller than $2,000,000 in revenues. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Our time is just about over. Mr. Henry.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That answered my question.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Total contributions for this area is $7,710,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Krutko, do you want me to ring the bell? (Interjection) There is no quorum, so I will ring the bell.
Thank you. The chair recognizes a quorum. We are on page 2-34, details of grants and contributions. Total contributions is $7,710,000. Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 457
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Total grants and contributions, $7,710,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Next page, we have an information item on active positions. Any questions? Move on to the next page. Schedule of lease budget requirements on page 2-36. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, for 1997/98, we have $9,170,000 shown as expenditures for residential leases. I would like to ask the Minister how many units does this figure represent?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
Approximately 550 units, I think.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What percentage of these 550 are occupied on a full-time basis?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Well, of course, that is a tough one to answer, Mr. Chairman, because leases expire, people move in and out all the time. I know my colleague has asked me that before. I really could not give him that answer today, what the total occupancy would be on those leases. But we are doing a bit of an evaluation on that right now, because as I said in the House earlier, where we are obligated fiscally and the houses are empty and they are no longer required, we want to use them for social housing. As soon as I get that information, I will provide it to the Member.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there any O and M costs associated with these leases?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, some of these leases are dry leases, some of these leases are wet leases. So yes, there are fuel costs, power costs; there are different conditions attached to different leases. So, yes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Minister have an idea of what these estimated costs are?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, Mr. Voytilla tells me the overall costs for dealing with housing, period, when we pay our property managers, the Housing Corporation, et cetera is around $16 million in total, in that range, for 1997-98, and we feel it will be somewhere around $2 to 3 million on the O and M side. Again, I can get that for the Member, because we are going to have to do that when we work with my colleague, Mr.
Arlooktoo, on this when arrangement we want to make on social housing.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. On the schedule of lease budget requirements. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, did the Minister say $33 million associated with the 550 leased units?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
No, Mr. Chairman. My apologies. It was $2 to 3 million.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I believe the mike was off on your side. I believe he said, "$2 to 3 million".
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We are on information item. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, could the Minister indicate what level communities the majority of these units are located in?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Do you have that information available, Mr. Minister?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, I do. Most of these leases, I think probably all of them, are in level two and level three communities. Communities like Arctic Bay, Fort Providence, Fort Simpson, Iqaluit, Lake Harbour, Pangnirtung, Tuktoyaktuk, Rankin Inlet, those kind of communities, Broughton Island, Arviat, Qaminetuaq, Kugluktuk.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, on page 2-38, it shows revenue from the leases of $200,000 per year. Does this represent then a loss of almost $9 million a year, not counting O and M?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
The $200,000 is where we may be leasing units to third parties, that is where we get the revenues from.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Information item, schedule of lease budget requirements. Mr. Miltenberger. Sorry. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, I do not wish to jump ahead in here, but could the Minister give me an idea then, what is the revenue from these leased units per year?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 458
John Todd Keewatin Central
Between leased and owned, and of course we are selling off our own units daily, very exciting, it is somewhere in the region of $6 million of revenues. I quantify it by saying that is leased plus owned revenues that we generate, and as I said, we are selling off the houses daily, in
the exciting drive towards private ownership in our communities.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just for clarification, I am not referring at this point to the houses. I am referring strictly to the leased units. I understand the Minister to say that we may generate up to $6,000,000 in revenue, which is offset by the $9,170,000 in expenditures, plus $2 to 3 million in O and M costs, which means a roughly $6,000,000 loss per year. Is that correct?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
John Todd Keewatin Central
Absolutely. That is correct. Yes, we subsidize our housing and that is why we are getting out of it, quite frankly, Mr. Chairman. That is why we have made this wonderful offer to our employees. Yes, there is a deficit, if you want, in that particular financial line, and we spend this and receive that and there is a shortfall. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The allotted time for the allotted member for Nunakput is up. On the schedule of lease budget requirements. Mr. Miltenberger.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not quite clear on the way this page is laid out. This year, 1997-98 will have $9 million in projected lease commitments? Is that correct?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, that is what we are committed to as of March 31, 1997, $9,170,000 of lease expenditures in the units that we have out there. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Could the Minister indicate once again, for my own edification, what we mean by long term? Is that five years?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 459
John Todd Keewatin Central
It is a combination. There are some leases out there that were entered into a number of years ago for twenty years, some for ten, some for fifteen, some on a month to month basis. So it is a combination of leases, Mr. Chairman. And I know from my previous experience, were done for a variety of reasons, one was for fiscal reasons, in terms of financing in some of these long term leases I know. So there is a variety of leases out there, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the intent of the government then, similar to staff housing, that as these leases expire that they will just be let collapse and we will be getting out of lease arrangements as well, in the long term? Or are we still going to continue to lease staff housing?
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Where there is a requirement for a continuation of government guarantees because of financial reasons and they have to show due cause, we would continue with the lease arrangements rather than see the long term mortgages, et cetera, be jeopardized. It is our intent to get out of some of the lease arrangements, in particular, lease arrangements where we have had them for a number of years.
I use the example, and I hope the Iqaluit people will not find it offensive, but I use the example of the FDL project, where the government had a lease there since 1968. We fundamentally believe there is no requirement any more for a long term lease in this government, because that building, I am sure, anybody who knows residential financing, has been paid for.
You have to remember that some of these leases were put in place because of financing considerations by banks, and the requirement to give the banks some comfort zone so that private development corporations, aboriginal organizations, and individuals could find the lending necessary for the government to proceed with its housing needs.
There may be a need for a continuation for some of those guarantees, but we are re-examining that whole thing. We are getting out of our own housing, as I have said, and we are almost there. Hallelujah! And we are also going to be examining the leases. And if there are some leases that we can get out of, we will get out of them. Absolutely.
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. On the lease budget requirements. Mr. Roland.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is Amen to brother Todd's Hallelujah. Mr. Chairman, on the serious side, we have been selling staff housing for a number of years now, this is not a brand new initiative. I know that in the community of Inuvik, we have sold off a few. As he explained earlier to Mr. Steen's questions, that as we are selling off some housing units, we are trying to save some of these losses. As I see here, from March 31, 1995 up to 1997, we have increased our costs. Are we leasing more housing units? And by doing that, is it costing us more?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Minister.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
If you look at, and you must have it in the schedule in the leasing budget requirements in front of you, you will see that there is actually a decline in the expenditures from 1997 right through to the year 2001. We are anticipating a decline there. We are anticipating that we will, on a one to one basis... what is the term... Sorry, I have lost my train of thought; that is unusual. Anyway, let me go back.
If you look here, in 1997 to the year 2002, there is a decline in our lease expenditures. It is our intention to, on a one-off basis, look at the leases as they come up for renewal, and try to make an arrangement with these individuals or groups that have these leases, to either re-negotiate the lease, if there is a continuing requirement for government to provide a guarantee, or get out of it where there is no longer a requirement for this government to provide a guarantee.
So, for example, if we were guaranteeing six units in Inuvik and we had been at a 25-year lease with these people and there was no requirement for financing reasons, then we would get out of that lease and the landlord would have to make the individual arrangement with the individual tenant for the rent. That is sort of the objective that we are trying to achieve here. Thank you.
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The Chair John Ningark
In other words, a case-by-case basis. Mr. Roland.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just on the total here of $94,480,000. Now that is just a cumulative or a total of all the years?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
For all the leases that we have, and you probably heard Mr. Voytilla whisper in my ear, for all the leases that we had, as of March 31st, 1997, that would be the total expenditures for that time period of those leases, from 1997 to the year 2016. $94,480,000, thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. On this information item. Mr. Roland.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, for example, at the very bottom there, 2002 to 2016, we have commitments for that $54,000,000?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Page 2-36 on your schedule, Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I look at this schedule of residential lease commitments, it begs the question of have we taken into consideration that we have been, over the years, selling off staff houses and in 1995 we had $7 million worth of leases and the following year, while we were still going through the selling off of staff houses, we have $99,000, so we went up $2 million. So, it begs the question, was there no recognition at that time that, while we were still selling off staff houses, we were still getting into long-term leases, we went up $2 million?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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John Todd Keewatin Central
The conscious decision was made by this government and the previous one. They have been trying to sell the staff housing for eight years. We are finally going to see a light at the end of the tunnel. It was to get the government out of its own owned housing units, because of the costs associated with maintaining it, et cetera. That is what the objective was. While we were doing that there was still a requirement for housing. There was a policy decision made that we would then go to lease because we would not require a public works, would not require all the external civil service to service that. So leasing arrangements were made to meet our requirements for housing. The government was out of housing, per se, but not out of leasing. We are now re- examining the lease side to see where we can get out of some of that, and we want to do that in a constructive way. We want to do that in a manner that does not impinge upon some of these developers and development groups as viability. So that is why we are doing it on a one-to-one basis. But ultimately, in an ideal world, we would like to be out of housing, period, absolutely.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Yes, I appreciate that explanation. So, we should not be surprised then, next year, if in fact these leasing commitments do go up or the government's leasing commitments, really, there is a good chance that they will go up?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
That is a possibility, particularly if we have to get housing in the smaller communities, it is a possibility. Yes. But we are working towards trying to improve our costing on this lease side, but there was inordinate amount of energy done by previous Legislatures and this one to try and get rid of the staff housing. I think we are close to that now and we can spend some of our energy in looking at, on the lease side, what is fair, and to reassure the developers and the banks that we are not going to make any undue, rash, policy decisions as it relates to the leases.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. On the schedule of lease budget requirements are we agreed? As provided, Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the honourable Minister at more than one time said that he would not entertain leasing to staff any more, so therefore, if we are not going to lease to staff any more, I wonder who is going to be in these units?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
No, no. If I said that then it is inaccurate. I have actually said the reverse. There is a requirement for ongoing housing in the smaller communities in some of the centres that may, because of the financing of these units, require some guarantee, either through a lease or through some guarantee that this government will need to provide for its staff, whether it is teachers, butchers, bakers, or candlestick makers. What we are doing here is re-examining our whole leasing policy in an effort to contain the expenditures to the best of our ability, but at the same time, balancing that discussion out with reassuring the developers, banks, and our staff, that housing will be available to them through a lease arrangement. If, as Mr. Voytilla points out, the private sector market is not there.
For example, if you go into a small community like Grise Fiord or Arctic Bay in my colleague, Mr. Barnabas's area, if there is a requirement for housing because the teacher ratio has to change, et cetera, or there is a requirement for new government employees, we will make an arrangement with that community, one way or the other or members within it, whether it is the co-op, the development corporation, or individuals, if they require some form of guarantee or a lease arrangement, we will make that arrangement to secure the housing that is necessary. Now this is the same arrangement that has been advocated by NTI and NIC in their whole drive towards Nunavut, and it is the same arrangement that we have here in the western Arctic with many of the communities, including Tuktoyaktuk in the western Arctic. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement here that the Minister made in the House this winter that he intends to get out of the staff housing business and, as well, that he intends to reduce the inventory of leased staff housing. Now, we just heard him say to Mr. Henry that we may see an increase in the inventory of leased staff housing. I wonder if the Minister can clarify which statement is correct?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
I do not have the statement in front of me, but my position is clear. Again, I will use the FDL project, if you will allow me, as an example. Where we have a lease arrangement that in the opinion of the government and that cannot be demonstrated there is a requirement for a long-term lease to ensure their mortgages and the long-term money is in place, we will get out of that lease. That is what I meant by that and that is what we are doing. But, where there is a continuing requirement for the government to provide some security to, let us say, a co-operative in, Toonoonik-Sahoonik Co-operative in Pond Inlet, or a development corporation in Arviat, or an individual in Inuvik, we will then provide him, if there is a requirement, if with the security they need to put the mortgages into place, to provide the staff housing that is required for our staff. That is all, nothing else.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister has indicated that he is selling these staff units first to the people that live in them, second to the private sector and he is suggesting that the private sector would then take on the leasing and supply the service of leasing to government staff people. Now, obviously, if these people are going to buy these units, they are going to be leasing them cheaper than the government leases their units, so how does the government plan to fill these units that are empty?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Well, if there are any empty units, as I said earlier, I will turn them over to the Housing Corporation.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Schedule of lease budget requirement. Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you for your patience, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, does the Minister have a firm plan in place with the Housing Corporation to take over these leases?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Steen, my patience is measured by this little timer here. Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
We are in the throes of discussions with the Housing Corporation right now, as it was a budget initiative and both Mr. Arlooktoo and myself are working that through at this time. It is our intention, where there are vacant staff leased units, where we are obligated legally to continue to, on the fiscal side, to transfer those to the Housing Corporation to alleviate, in some small way, the urgent and desperate housing shortage we have right across the Territories. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My only concern with that, I am glad the Minister has some formal plan, although I would appreciate a more detailed plan, but my particular concern is that these units are going to be turned over to the Housing Corporation and the Housing Corporation is going to lease them out for low income people who would be paying $40 a month rent so the final responsibility for paying the cost of these units falls on the social envelope. The social envelope will end up bearing the total cost of these units. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Yes, that is correct.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Are we okay on that, Mr. Steen? Thank you. The chair would now like to recognize Mr. Erasmus. We are on page 2-36, schedule of leased budget requirements. Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, at the time I thought perhaps we did not have a quorum.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
We do not. I will ring the bell. The chair recognizes the quorum. Schedule of lease budget requirements. Agreed. The information item provided to Members. Page 2-37, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. Total department, nothing, just information provided for you. Moving along. Go back to page 2-29, program summary, Financial Management Board Secretariat, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance is $40,840,000. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister one or two more questions on these housing units. I understand from the Minister that he intends to either sell these housing units or turn them over to the Housing Corporation if they cannot be sold. I would just like to point out to the Minister that, at this point in time, in Tuktoyaktuk for instance, there is a number of housing units already boarded up, waiting to be dismantled and hauled away. Now obviously, if these housing units cannot be sold, maybe the Minister would consider giving them away, but my point here is that the communities are already hard pressed for lots and I am sure that the community does not want any more empty, vacant, government buildings taking up lots and I think the Minister should take this into consideration when he suggests turning these units over to the Housing Corporation. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you. Yes, I will, I will take that particular issue into consideration. There is a whole bunch of other communities out there that are desperately short of housing. Some communities have 200 people on the list looking for housing. So, this was just some small way, some
small initiative to give some partial relief to an already very difficult issue, but I will take Mr. Steen's comments under advisement and act accordingly. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Page 2-29, program summary, Financial Management Board Secretariat. We have Mr. Roland.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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An Hon. Member
Better late than never.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some crude remarks from my little friend. Mr. Chairman, I was not in the House at the time when it is going through so. I would like to ask a question of the Minister. Things are moving at a snail's pace here so I thought I could get out and get something more productive done. Mr. Chairman, can we silence this little fellow beside me? Mr. Chairman, on negotiated contracts, I would like to know what are the guidelines?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Negotiated contracts. I believe that the Department of Transportation does have a negotiated contract policy. All other negotiated contracts go to Cabinet for approval including transportation ones as well.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Mr. Roland
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, there is no set policy in place through FMB on negotiated contracts?
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
That is correct.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Affirmative. Mr. Roland.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, I take it that each department can set up its own standards for negotiated contracts.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
The Cabinet reviews all negotiated contracts and takes full responsibility for them.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Program summary, Financial Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Steen.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, in reviewing the leases and the commitments for long term leases which go to 2016 and based on the information that we have from the Minister that we are recognizing a $6,000,000 a year loss here which to some degree could be considered as a subsidy to the business community, and taking into consideration the fact that the Minister says that he is working with the Housing Corporation to come up with a plan as to how to address these vacant units, and obviously taking into consideration
that the quicker we come up with a plan, in particular before April 1, 1997, in other words when the budget is approved, I am prepared to put forward a motion. I move that this committee defer further consideration of programs summary, Financial Management Board Secretariat, in to the Department of Executive at this time until such time as the Minister can present to this House, a detailed plan of how he intends to fill these units.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Steen, we have a partial written part of your motion. Thank you, Mr. Steen. Do you want to provide the provision as part of this motion or do you want to defer your motion until the portion of the motion that you read is written on this paper motion. What do you wish to do? Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, I believe it is important that we add what I stated until such time as the Minister can present a detailed plan which would address the vacant leases.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. Your motion will have to be written wholly and translated into Inuktitut language, so we will take indeterminate time, perhaps a few minutes, until your motion is wholly written. Thank you.
-- Break
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
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Vince Steen Nunakput
The Minister is not here, Mr. Chairman. Oh, I am sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman if you will permit me, since the motion is not debatable, I would like to take a minute to explain the intent of the motion before I read it.
Mr. Chairman, the Minister has stated that he has a plan in place...
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 462
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Steen, we have a point of order. Deputy Premier. Point of order. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Mr. Chairman, can I get your ruling on the issue of a non-debatable motion on whether Mr. Steen had already introduced the motion earlier, on whether he could speak to it now since it is not a debatable motion?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. As we speak, the Clerk I think was trying to get some information whether a mover of the motion is sure in fact. We speak to the motion prior to introducing the motion. We will check it out for you. Thank you.
Thank you. I am informed, Mr. Arlooktoo, because before we break in order to allow the motion to be written and translated, Mr. Steen has not officially moved the motion because a portion of the motion was not written nor translated into the appropriate language. So he has not thereby moved the motion officially. He could speak to the motion before he makes the motion official. Thank you, Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are on program summary and speaking to the figure. The Minister
has indicated that he has a plan in place in conjunction with the Housing Corporation Minister whereby there is a plan to make use of these vacant, leased units in all the communities. I fully support the idea. I have no problem with it at all. I think it would serve to address the shortage of housing in the communities. It would serve to address the many shortages of apartment units for the young people. One, two and three people families. We do not have the number of apartment units that we need to address this age group and they would obviously be glad to take advantage of this increase of housing units.
It would also serve to address the shortage of housing for low income people. The Minister has spoken to that. I am fully in support of that. What I want to see here is some commitments from the Minister that in fact this plan is going to take place. I would like to see some dates as to when this plan will be put into effect. Now I do not think I am asking for too much from the Minister if he already had a plan in place. So all I am asking for here is that if, in fact, in a way I am calling his bluff. If in fact he intends to turn these units over to the Housing Corporation, I want to see him do it and I am giving him the opportunity to do it. He is obviously going to benefit a lot more than I would from this motion. I would like to see the Minister put forward a commitment either in the House, or in this committee, that he will indeed, by a certain date, have this plan implemented. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister would you like to put a witness ... We have not spoken to the motion yet. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
John Todd Keewatin Central
Well I mean, I would suggest to my honourable colleague and I believe his intentions are honourable, but I do not think that this is the way in which to say to the government I want to ensure that this policy goes into effect. I do not make policy statements idly. The decision to do what we are doing was done as part of our budget strategy. It is going to take some time to work out the details et cetera and it is not the intent to delay it. So I appreciate that my honourable colleague from Tuktoyaktuk is with us on this issue, but it is an issue that could be raised in the House and asked for the Minister to present the plan when it unfolds but it should not be an issue to hold up the budget, so I ask my Cabinet colleagues if they will support me, and as they will and we will vote against this motion. But I want to assure my colleagues in the House today, that it is our full intention to try to do exactly what we have said and I want to reassure my colleague who obviously supports our initiative, that it is going to happen. I cannot see the deal happen tomorrow. It is our intent to move as quickly as possible, to look at the fiscal ramifications, the operational requirements that are necessary to move this over and we will do it as I have said. I do not see where trying to hold up the budget really is the appropriate strategy to ensure that this government moves forward on a budget initiative, supported by Cabinet and the FMB and this House. So I would ask my colleague's indulgence if he would be prepared to withdraw the motion. If he would, with the assurances that I am going to move quickly on this initiative and will provide him with the full details of how we are going to go about it in the coming weeks? Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. All the Members. I would like to remind all the Members that Mr. Steen has not
officially introduced a motion yet, thereby we are not talking about a motion, we are in fact in the program summary, Finance Management Board Secretariat, at this time. Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I do not hold the budget up lightly and I do not intend to hold the budget up. What the intent here is to, the Minister said he is going to do something. Now we have been hearing this in my communities for many, many years that the government is going to fill these vacant units. Surely the Minister must appreciate.....
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
The Chair John Ningark
Mr. Steen. Mr. Steen are you? Thank you, Mr. Steen. I hear Mr. Todd and Mr. Steen talking to a motion. Perhaps you want to introduce the motion at this time? Otherwise we are in the program summary of this particular activity. Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, at this point in time I am talking the program summary whereby I am addressing the $6 million loss to this government. I have not mentioned a motion at this point.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the program summary. Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman. I am speaking to the plan that the Minister addressed that he said he had in place. Now the plan, like I said before, I fully support the plan. It would also serve to address the shortage of housing in the communities. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not mind saying that the Minister must be aware of how a person would feel in a community with no house, no ability to get a house, and government has empty, leased units. So therefore, I am supporting his plan, but I would still appreciate more details on this plan. In other words I invite the Minister to put forward details as to when this plan would be put in place. Therefore I move this motion, Mr. Chairman.
I move that this committee defer further consideration of program summary, Financial Board Management Secretariat, into the Department of the Executive until such time as the Minister can provide to this committee a detailed plan which addresses vacant residential units as they relate to long-term lease commitments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. The motion is in order. That is not, I repeat, not debatable. All those in favour of the motion, please signify in the usual manner. Down, please. Opposed? Thank you. Down. Abstaining? The motion is defeated. Back to program summaries. We are on page 2-29 of the Financial Management Board Secretariat. 1999/98 main estimates. Operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance is $40,820,000. Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
In regards to his comment, can the Minister tell us how soon will he be able to allocate these units that are not going to be leased or purchased to the Housing Corporation to be used as housing units?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. For the record we have Mr. Todd, the Minister of Finance in here at the witness table, with Mr. Voytilla. Mr. Todd.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
John Todd Keewatin Central
Look. Here is the dilemma that we are in. We have, Mr. Steen, I would hope that would...well it is not okay. Well anyway the dilemma that we are in is we are currently selling houses. Until we determine what houses are left over, we cannot determine how many houses are left to transfer over, okay. Same with leases. So we are working out the formula or the formulae, or the format, or the policy, right now, between Mr. Voytilla and Mr. Handley, and discussions between Mr. Arlooktoo and myself. It is our desire to move as quickly as possible, but there are some things out there right now that we cannot quite totally identify how many staff houses are left over, for example. You know what I am saying? So it is our intent, and I want to reassure Mr. Steen, who is no longer here, that it is our intent to do that and I do not care what previous governments said. I have made a statement in the House and I stand by it as the Finance Minister. We are going to do this initiative, because it is the right initiative. And I am not going to take any responsibility for the previous government's inability to move forward on this initiative. This initiative will be put in place, will in some small way alleviate the housing shortage in our constituencies, and I will move as quickly as possible to provide everybody with the information. It is that simple. Nothing else. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Program summary. I am told that if any Member wishes to speak to an item that we are discussing now, I believe it is the schedule of lease budget requirements, any Member will need the consent of other Members to go back to the particular item. In this case, schedule of lease budget requirements, program summary, total operations and maintenance is $40,820,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Total capital, total expenditures, $40,820,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Can we move on to the next page. Do we agree that this particular activity, Finance Management Board Secretariat, is concluded?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and the witness for appearing before the committee. Thank you. Does the committee agree at this time that we move on to Aboriginal Affairs?
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Agreed. Thank you. I believe the Honourable Mr. Antoine is the lead Minister in this case and he will provide an opening remark. Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased today to present the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs' budget as proposed in the main estimates for 1997-98.
As the deadline for division approaches, all Members are well aware that the creation of the two new territories has significant implications for the western territory, as well as Nunavut. The ministry's work is central to representing the government's interests and balancing the interests of all residents. As well, both self-government and land claims negotiations are proceeding at an accelerated pace. Various negotiations will be underway or are in the exploratory phase in all regions of the western N.W.T this year.
The work of the ministry for the next fiscal year has been set out in the business planning process and reflects comments received in standing committee review and recommendations. The budget is derived from this business plan. It should be noted that the main estimates do not include some of the most recent changes of necessity in relation to budgeting matters associated with self-government negotiations. However, Mr. Chairman, I will highlight the key information about this department's budget.
First, in response to the various standing committee recommendations, the Intergovernmental Affairs component of the ministry was transferred to the Executive Office during the past year. A review of the ministry's activities result in more efficient use of claims implementation funds received from the federal government. As a result, this budget reflects an overall reduction of $329,000, and one position.
The proposed budget also includes an additional $202,000 for government support of the Constitutional Working Group's activities related to developing a constitutional package for the western territory. These funds will be directed towards public ratification of a constitutional proposal. The bottom line, as noted in the main estimates, is that the ministry's overall proposed 1997-98 budget is $2,377,000 with eighteen positions. The ministry has no capital budget and no revenues.
In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to say the role and responsibilities of Aboriginal Affairs are vital at this time in our history. I believe the ministry can effectively do its duty for the government based on the budget as proposed.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Minister. On behalf of the Infrastructure Committee, I believe Mr. Barnabas will make an opening remark. Mr. Barnabas.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the western constitutional development process continues, the funding for this process remains a concern. The ministry has committed funds for this process, but the standing committee notes that the federal government has a significant responsibility towards funding constitutional development for the western Northwest Territories. As of the Committee's meeting with the Minister in December to review the main estimates, meetings with DIAND staff concerning this funding have not yet taken place. The Minister informed the committee that they intend to provide one third of the funding necessary for the process, and that they expect the federal government to provide the other two thirds. However, to date, the federal government has not committed funds for the process.
Committee members are concerned that, without federal funding, either the territorial government will be expected to pay for the entire process or that limited territorial funds will result in the process being inadequately funded. Neither alternative is acceptable.
The standing committee is also concerned that funding for the process is coming from a number of different resources. For example, the Legislative Assembly is using some of their funding to assist the process by providing some office space and salary funding.
The ministry is participating in negotiations with Makivik's offshore claims in Hudson's Bay, Ungava Bay, and Hudson's Strait. The committee appreciates that the Quebec Inuit have legitimate claims on the use of those waters and the resources therein. However, it is important to remember that all islands in James Bay, Ungava Bay, Hudson's Bay, and Hudson's Strait, remain in the jurisdiction of the Northwest Territories. It is important that the NWT's interests are protected during these negotiations. The standing committee will continue to monitor the ministry's process in these negotiations and urges the government to protect the interests of the Northwest Territories in any future land claims negotiations from Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador, Ontario or Manitoba, which lie adjacent to the Northwest Territories' jurisdiction in those waters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Barnabas.
Committee Motion 9-13(4): To Defer Consideration Of The Program Summary: Financial Management Board Secretariat In The Department Of The Executive
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Mr. Chairman, I move that the standing committee recommends that the government consolidate all territorial government funding for the western constitutional development process under the one department or ministry, in order to ensure that the funding for the process is effective and efficient. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Are you recommending that this committee recommends that the government consolidate all territorial government funding for the western constitutional development process under one department or ministry, in order to ensure that funding for the process is effective and efficient?
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. All those in favour, please signify. Opposed. Thank you. The motion is carried.
Shall we continue? Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried. I will rise and report progress to the Speaker.
-- Break
Committee Motion 10-13(4): Recommendation Of Committee Report 3-13(4): Infrastructure
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The House will come back to order. We are on item 20, report of the committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.
Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole
Page 465
John Ningark Natilikmiot
Good evening, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98 and Committee Report 3-13(4) and we would like to report progress with one motion being adopted.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.
Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole
Page 465
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The motion is seconded by Mr. Arlooktoo. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
At this time, I would like to inform the House that earlier today, under item 13 on the order paper, tabling of documents, two of the three documents tabled will have to be withdrawn.
The first one is a document tabled by Mr. Ootes. The document Mr. Ootes tabled was a book on Fly-fishing in the Northwest Territories by Chris Hanks. This book is protected by copyright law. And I quote from the statements contained in that publication:
"All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced without the express written consent of the publisher, except in the case of brief excerpts for critical reviews and articles."
Therefore, I order that this document be withdrawn as a Tabled Document in the House.
However, I am sure all Members would appreciate copies of the book if Mr. Ootes was to be so generous...
The second document was one that I inadvertently tabled, that being the official voting results of the 1995 general election. This document was tabled as Tabled Document #1-13(2) on February 14, 1996. This document is also withdrawn as a Tabled Document in this House.
Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 465
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, a meeting of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
Orders of the day for Friday, February 7, 1997:
1. Prayer
2. Ministers' Statements
3. Members' Statements 4. Return to Oral Questions
5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
6. Oral Questions
7. Written Questions
8. Returns to Written questions
9. Replies to Opening Address
10. Petitions
11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
13. Tabling of Documents
14. Notices of Motion
15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
16. Motions
17. First Reading of Bills
- Bills No. 10 and 11
18. Second Reading of Bills
- Bill 9
19. Consideration of Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
- Bill 8, Committee Reports 2-13(4) and 3-13(4), Tabled Document 20-13(4)
20. Report of Committee of the Whole
21. Third Reading of Bills
22. Orders of the Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 466
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Friday, February 7, 1997 at 10:00 a.m.
-- ADJOURNMENT
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