This is page numbers 371 - 406 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was yellowknife.
Members Present
Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable John Todd.
Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 371
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.
Minister's Statement 68-13(6): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 371
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Manitok Thompson will be absent from the House for the remainder of the week to attend the Ministers responsible for Consumer Affairs meeting in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Minister's Statement 68-13(6): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 371
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.
Minister's Statement 69-13(6): Child And Family Services Legislation
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 371
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Health and Social Services Child and Family Services Act and the Adoption Act were proclaimed on October 30 and November 1, 1998, respectively. The new Child and Family Services Act promotes a focus on prevention rather than intervention. It provides the opportunity for families to voluntarily receive help before a child protection concern arises. It takes into consideration aboriginal cultures and ensures that the best interests of the child always come first.
Mr. Speaker, the Child and Family Services Act provides an alternative to the court process through the use of what the legislation calls "Plan of Care Committees". These committees can be created for each family in need and can include family and community members. The new act encourages people and communities to become more responsible for their children and introduces the opportunity for communities to establish a child and family services committee. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services has devoted significant resources in preparing for the proclamation of the new act. Over 100 supervisors and child welfare workers have received statutory training. In addition to the statutory training, other training sessions, workshops and presentation packages have been developed to provide information and resources to various other groups that do not require statutory training, but need some background on the new act.
Mr. Speaker, there has been wide distribution of information about the Child and Family Services Act to regional health boards, directors of social programs, RCMP, aboriginal organizations, hamlets, band offices and libraries. A child and family services standards and procedures manual based on the new act has been distributed to child protection workers.
Mr. Speaker, the Adoption Act also promotes consideration of the best interests of the child and the child's cultural heritage when making decisions. The Adoption Act introduces a shift towards open adoptions. When a child reaches the age of majority (19 years), the child, the birth parents and other significant people in the child's life can request full access to the adoption records. This act legislates the establishment of an adoption registry which will collect personal information about the adopted child when possible. Adopted children will be able to access information about their family history, including medical, social, cultural and other information. Measures have been taken to ensure that information in the adoption registry will be secure.
The first training session for adoption workers will take place in Yellowknife, November 17-18, 1998. I am confident that the Child and Family Services Act and the Adoption Act will have a positive impact on the health and safety of children in the Northwest Territories. I would like to thank my colleagues in this House for their support and input in the development of this important legislation. I would also like to express my appreciation to the front line social workers and board staff who will be responsible for implementing the new act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
--Applause
Minister's Statement 69-13(6): Child And Family Services Legislation
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 371
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.
Minister's Statement 70-13(6): 1997/98 Business Development Fund Annual Report
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 371
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Later today at the appropriate time, I will table the 1997-98 Annual Report of the Business Development Fund. This year's report is divided into two parts. The first part reports on assistance to businesses through schedules A to E. These schedules assist businesses with development. Development assistance includes: start-up, development of business skills, new markets and products, and securing investment. The last
section, schedule G, reports on financial assistance to community-based organizations for economic development projects that benefit entire communities, regions or sectors of the economy. This schedule is designed to work in partnership with other community development programs. I would like to highlight some of the department's ongoing commitments to the private sector. This year's 1997-98 annual report shows that increases have been made in total client approvals from 298 in 1996-97 to 336 in 1997-98 and for community-based organizations, approvals increased from 123 in 1996-97 to 240 in 1997-98. Through schedules A to E, assistance was provided to 336 businesses. Of those, 251 were approvals to aboriginal applicants. Again, in keeping with our efforts to promote opportunities for aboriginal businesses, I am also pleased to note that contributions to aboriginal businesses accounted for 75 percent of the approved total. Contributions to businesses totalled $4.8 million which levered an additional $4.3 million in equity investment and $15.3 million in other financing, injecting a total of $24.4 million into the economy.
Schedule G, the Community Initiatives Program, provided $7.5 million for 240 projects to community and regionally based organizations. Contributions to aboriginal organizations made up 95 percent of total approvals. These projects, which often involve infrastructure development, training and market development, lay the groundwork for economic growth in the future. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge all businesses and organizations that continue to support our northern economy. Through vision, determination and hard work all of us will continue to build the north together. Mahsi cho.
--Applause
Minister's Statement 70-13(6): 1997/98 Business Development Fund Annual Report
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 372
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.
Minister's Statement 71-13(6): NWT Association Of Social Workers
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 372
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform Members that the Northwest Territories once again has an active association of social workers. In January of this year, a group of social workers, with support from the Department of Health and Social Services, met and developed an action plan to reactivate their association. The association is now in operation with a membership of 90 northern professionals including social workers from the Yukon, Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, the association held its first meeting in Inuvik from September 22 to 24. The national president of the Canadian Association of Social Workers, Mr. John Mould, was able to attend these meetings to share his knowledge and experience with northern members. Board elections were held during the Inuvik meetings, and Ms. Nuelle Novik was elected president.
The association will be a strong voice and an advocate for social services professionals. It will embark on an educational campaign to inform the public and their colleagues about social work and the role social workers play in our communities. The association has identified three major initiatives that will be explored over the next year. These initiatives involve:
- Creating a joint territorial association, including the NWT, Yukon and Nunavut;
- Establishing membership in the Canadian Association of Social Workers; and
- Investigating the processes required to establish regulation and licensing of social workers in the north.
--Applause
Minister's Statement 71-13(6): NWT Association Of Social Workers
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 372
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.
Member's Statement 158-13(6): Accomplishments Of Andrew Dexter
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 372
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to pay tribute to the accomplishments of a constituent by the name of Andrew Dexter. Andrew recently attended the world power lifting championships in Grace, Austria as a junior which is up to 23 years of age. He competed in the 90 kilogram or 198 pound class. This event involves three lifts, the squat, the bench press and the dead lift. The lifter makes three attempts at each lift specifying how much weight he will attempt at that time. The heaviest amount successfully lifted in each style are then totalled to find the overall winner. Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to say that Mr. Dexter, a fine northern boy, in fact, won his weight class and is the world powerlifter in the 198 pound class. I think that is a tremendous accomplishment, he competed against six other continents and to give you a sense of scale, Mr. Speaker, this young man squatted and lifted 634 pounds, he bench-pressed 440 pounds and he deadlifted 672 pounds, for a total of 1,746 pounds. This young man is just a little taller than me, but obviously he is much more powerful. I would like this House to join with me in congratulating Andrew Dexter, we now have a world champion living in the Northwest Territories and he has made us all proud. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
--Applause
Member's Statement 158-13(6): Accomplishments Of Andrew Dexter
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 372
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.
Member's Statement 159-13(6): Recognition Of Northern Teachers
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 372
Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon.
Mr. Speaker, I was to take a moment of the Legislative Assembly's time to give praise to some very important people in the northern communities. The individuals I am talking about are teachers. Teachers fill many roles. They are guidance counsellors, coaches, surrogate parents and friends to the students. This is in addition to the role they play in teaching our children. Our northern teachers continue to do their magic despite having to face cutbacks in funding to education. They have lost their vacation travel assistance and their private accommodation allowance. In some communities, reasonable housing is unavailable. In the schools, teachers have had to deal with larger classes, occasional violence and in some instances, parental harassment. Mr. Speaker, most of the teachers I know work long and hard. I wish to thank the teachers of the north for their work and dedication. Thank you.
--Applause
Member's Statement 159-13(6): Recognition Of Northern Teachers
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Roland.
Member's Statement 160-13(6): Beaufort Delta Leaders' Conference - November 6-8, 1998
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Beaufort Delta Leaders' recently held their conference from November 6th through to the 8th. This conference allows the leaders of every community in the Beaufort Delta to come together and meet Ministers and senior officials of this government. The conference is an opportunity for this government to provide information on ongoing initiatives as well as inform the leadership of any changes to programs and services. The conference is a forum for the leaders of the Beaufort Delta to inform this government of their community's ongoing concerns and to raise new issues.
Mr. Speaker, I have often said that it is important for us as representatives of the people to receive input first-hand from those directly affected by the decisions that we make. The opportunity has been given to this government to respond to the concerns raised at the conference, as well as the information provided later. Another opportunity is through responses to the motions passed at the closing of the conference.
Mr. Speaker, I believe it is important for this government to respond to the motions raised at the Beaufort Delta Leaders Conference in a timely manner and hope that this will be done. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Ministers Ng and Dent and the Western Caucus Chairman, Mr. Miltenberger, for taking the time out of their busy schedule to attend the Beaufort Delta Leaders Conference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
--Applause
Member's Statement 160-13(6): Beaufort Delta Leaders' Conference - November 6-8, 1998
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Members' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Member's Statement 161-13(6): Remembrance Day In Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday on November 11th, I joined many Canadians and others around the world in remembrance and appreciation of the millions of individuals that fell in the many wars of human history. Inuit understand, although very disapproving of wars, the importance of defending democracy. That, despite day-to-day struggles, Canada is a much better place to live than other countries, partly because freedom and democracy have been successfully defended in the past. The solemn events of Remembrance Day inevitably bring to mind others that have passed on - relatives, friends and acquaintances.
During this time of reflection, I thought of a particular group of people who much deserve to be remembered as well. In the world of the Inuit people, my people, are providers. The brave and dedicated hunters are greatly valued on a daily basis throughout the year. Hundreds of hunters venture out on the land or out to sea to provide food for their families and communities. This is not done as a past-time, hobby or enjoyment, but is necessary for survival. Even today, food from the land is far more important and used than store-bought or manufactured foods.
Mr. Speaker, even with the most experienced hunter, this is a dangerous occupation, one that has and continues to take lives. In the past four years alone, more than a dozen hunters that I personally know have perished while out on the land and sea while carrying out their duties. Fortunately, far more possible tragedies are averted than those that actually occur and for this we are thankful. However, history has shown that as we head into another long winter, we will likely have our share of lost and missing hunters, accidents, and quite possibly some will turn out tragically. (Translation ends) I would like unanimous consent to conclude. Thank you.
Member's Statement 161-13(6): Remembrance Day In Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Baffin South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? Mr. Arlooktoo, you have unanimous consent.
Member's Statement 161-13(6): Remembrance Day In Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to say finally that with this remembrance, I hope I have not taken away from the seriousness and importance of Remembrance Day, but added to it by also remembering those among us who risk their lives on a daily basis, while in service for their community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member's Statement 161-13(6): Remembrance Day In Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 373
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.
Member's Statement 162-13(6): Wha Ti Road Project
Item 3: Members' Statements
November 11th, 1998
Page 373
James Rabesca North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to inform this House of the project the community of Wha Ti has been working on for the last two years. Over the past two years, the community has contributed approximately $142,000 with the Department of Transportation also contributing to the construction of the 30 kilometre road that goes from Wha Ti to Lac La Martre Falls. This road will provide a number of opportunities to the community and its residents. To date all the work has been done by the residents, which has created badly needed employment in a very high unemployed area.
This road will allow residents easier access to firewood for their homes where currently, it is very difficult to get at.
There are also a number of areas along this road that have been identified for picnic areas which will develop in due course. There will also be access to Lac La Martre Falls, an area with great tourism potential, a historical and traditional site that has been used for generations as a transportation route to Rae-Edzo. Other developments will also take place along this road, one example would be a developed boat-launching area at the Falls. By developing this road, it will continue to be used and developed into a more permanent area for all other surrounding residents to use and enjoy. I fully support this initiative and it is good to see communities taking forefront on their own developments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member's Statement 162-13(6): Wha Ti Road Project
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.
Member's Statement 163-13(6): Community Concerns In Aklavik
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a statement today in regard to some of the concerns the community of Aklavik has regarding what has happened in their community. Mr. Speaker, the first item I would like to speak to, is in regard to the school which is presently being constructed. I would like to thank the government for that. This contract has been issued to a joint-venture company which is made up of the Gwich'in and Inuvialuit and the aboriginal committee in Aklavik. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also note that in Aklavik there have been two positions cut in the last year and so far, this year, they have recorded up to 18 percent enrolment. Like most other schools, there is a lot of stress on the teachers and the students in those classrooms to deal with the increased enrolment, but also the lack of materials and resources to work with.
Mr. Speaker, also with construction contracts in the community of Aklavik, there is a concern regarding the length and time it takes for these contracts to be awarded and issued and the construction to start. For instance, Mr. Speaker, the school in Aklavik which was basically in the budget in April, negotiations did not conclude until late June. There was still information flowing back and forth between the Inuvik regional office and headquarters here in Yellowknife. In regards to that time being delayed, the community had to postpone the project which they were hoping to have concluded by this spring. Because of that, Mr. Speaker, the project will have to be extended due to the costs of moving materials into Aklavik this fall. All materials were not able to get there.
Another matter, Mr. Speaker, is the airport in Aklavik. Presently, the airport has been downgraded in regard to the status it held. Because of the downgrade, it means that the airspace for Aklavik has declined due to concern from the government because of the length of the airport. Also, because the health centre exceeds the allowable height in the community because of its location next to the airport. This downgrade means that the community of Aklavik will receive less flights. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
Member's Statement 163-13(6): Community Concerns In Aklavik
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Mackenzie Delta seeks unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do I have any nays? Mr. Krutko, you have unanimous consent.
Member's Statement 163-13(6): Community Concerns In Aklavik
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. In regard to the airport, it means that there will be less flights into Aklavik which means there will be more costs associated with having to bring goods in with smaller aircraft than having the ability to have larger aircraft supply the community which is isolated.
The other concern that the community has is in relation to gravel. This matter has been brought up several times by myself and it is a concern to the community. The poor condition they find their roads in and not having an adequate gravel source, the community feels they need gravel supplied locally due to the high cost of bringing it in.
Another point the community has is the high cost of fuel and gas in the community. Mr. Speaker, a lot of us here take the costs of gas for granted, but in Aklavik, it costs over 90 cents a litre. Ten gallons of gas, which is almost 50 litres, costs almost $45. Mr. Speaker, these are some of the concerns that have been raised by my constituents in Aklavik and I will be asking the Ministers concerned on these different matters. Thank you.
Member's Statement 163-13(6): Community Concerns In Aklavik
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. I do not have the rule book in front of me but Members are reminded in their Members' statement, to address the statement to one item, not one community. Members' statement. Mr. Ootes.
Member's Statement 164-13(6): 25th Anniversary Of Northern Addiction Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 374
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak today about Northern Addiction Services. Next week marks the 25th anniversary of the Northern Addiction Services. It provides drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs to all residents of the Northwest Territories and on average, 200 citizens have been treated at the facility for some years.
The society was incorporated in 1973 and as a result today, there is a 12-bed detox centre located on main street here in Yellowknife that serves 140 adults on a short-term counselling basis annually. It also has a ten-bed youth centre which provides youth inhalant solvent recovery programs and provides more than a dozen opportunities for youth per year. Unfortunately, the youth program has been cancelled due to budget cuts of this government.
An adult centre opened in Yellowknife in 1991 and it is located on the Detah road. It is a 28-bed facility. It provides alcohol, drug and substance abuse services. Alcohol, drug and substance abuse is the number one concern for us here in the Northwest Territories. Because of alcohol and drug abuse, we see a lot more violence, family violence, increased suicides, crime and sexual abuse, Mr. Speaker. Recent consultations by the Northern Addiction Services has shown that there is a continued need for support for people with addictions. There needs to be improved follow-up care, more youth programs, and additional treatment capacity.
On this 25th anniversary, I would like to congratulate the staff and the board members of Northern Addiction Services for their continued commitment to citizens of the Northwest Territories. I would also like to recognize two people who were instrumental in the establishment of the service, Winnie Fraser-McKay and Thelma Tees. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
--Applause
Member's Statement 164-13(6): 25th Anniversary Of Northern Addiction Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.
Member's Statement 165-13(6): Constituents In The Nursing Training Program
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are some students who are here for a nursing training program and one of them is my constituent who is attending this nursing program. Mr. Speaker, some of these students have had to live off their own money in order to continue their training program and they have come across some problems. It has to do with lack of financial support. They have had to use their own money to buy food and pay for other expenses like child care. They have had some concerns regarding financial assistance.
One of them has approached me about her particular problem. Although they have requested more funding, they have been turned down. Using that as an example, Mr. Speaker, if a student has to pay for rent, they would have to pay over $300 in rent and it only leaves about $200 for food and other expenses. These are some of the problems that have been experienced by nursing students. At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister of Education regarding this issue. I also would like to state that in support of the students, if they were to be assisted financially, they would have an easier time with their training program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)
Member's Statement 165-13(6): Constituents In The Nursing Training Program
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.
Member's Statement 166-13(6): Drug Stores Move Away From Cigarette Sales
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to congratulate and applaud a local company who is doing their share to promote health in the north and that is Sutherland's Drugs, who stopped selling cigarettes earlier this fall. Mr. Speaker, Sutherland's felt that it was hypocritical for them to promote health as a drugstore and yet to be destroying health by selling cigarettes. The issue was why should they continue to sell cigarettes. Finally they decided that they should not. They decided they should be proactive.
Some of the factors they looked at in making this decision include that other drugstores have stopped selling them including Ring's Pharmacy in Hay River. Some provinces have actually instituted legislation against drugstores selling cigarettes. Also the mark up on cigarettes does not really cover the cost of selling them. In fact, they predict it will save them on their insurance costs because many break-ins today are by people in search of cheap cigarettes. Actually there is a local business that was just broken into for cigarettes and bars are often broken into for booze and cigarettes. Apparently, cigarettes are a hot item.
Mr. Speaker, the manager at Sutherland's Drugs has not noticed any direct detrimental effect because of the decision to stop selling cigarettes. In fact, they get a lot of positive comments and surprisingly most of the positive comments come from the people that used to buy cigarettes there. They claim they have not lost any customers from doing this and, in fact, it seems that people seem to shop there just as much as before, if not more often. Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Members here to join me in applauding Sutherland's Drugs for their move to stop selling cigarettes. Thank you.
--Applause
Member's Statement 166-13(6): Drug Stores Move Away From Cigarette Sales
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Members' statements. Mr. Picco.
Member's Statement 167-13(6): Recruitment And Retention Funding
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Monday Minister Dent announced an extra $2 million in training funds for health and social services workers in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, that was indeed a good announcement. With the training dollars announced the Minister indicated that the nursing access year would be operated in Nunavut and the NWT this January. This follows the suspension of the same program earlier when available NUHRDS funding was not in place and the participants had to quit the program after the first year. Mr. Speaker, with the many concerns heard and raised in this House about the nursing shortages and retention of same, indeed this extra $2 million will help us with the problems over our medical professionals with the ground work to train staff locally and retain such staff.
Mr. Speaker, later today I will ask the appropriate Minister, Mr. Dent, for some more information on Monday's announcement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member's Statement 167-13(6): Recruitment And Retention Funding
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 375
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Members' statements. Again, I want to correct my reminder to Mr. Krutko. under Members' statements it does say that you cannot exceed two and a half minutes but also you have confine yourself to one matter not one item. It does not say what the matters can be, so I do not think I should have said that it is not restricted to one community. I just wanted to correct myself. Item 4, returns to oral questions, Mr. Ng.
Return To Oral Question 145-13(6): Agency Nurses Employment Status
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 375
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return
to an oral question asked by Mr. Henry on November 4, 1998, in respect to agency nurses employment status.
On November 4, 1998 the Member asked the question regarding the employment arrangement for agency nurses.
Agency nurses are used across the Northwest Territories, generally to provide temporary relief services. They are not employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories.
When agency nurses are required, the board contacts an agency, which in turn supplies the required number of nurses. The board then signs a contract with the agency. It is the agency which is paid for the service. The nurse remains an employee of the agency at all times. Thank you.
Return To Oral Question 145-13(6): Agency Nurses Employment Status
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.
Return To Oral Questions 116-13(6): Inuvialuit Wildlife Amendments
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 376
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Steen on September 24, 1998. It is in regard to the Inuvialuit Wildlife Amendments.
The Wildlife Conservation Act, Bill 27, was introduced in 1991 to make various amendments to the Wildlife Act, including changes to recognize the Inuvialuit Final Agreement (IFA). Although the Bill was not approved by the Legislature, amendments to recognize the IFA were made in 1994 when a completely new section (Part II) was added to the act.
The department has prepared an amendment to the Wildlife Act which will formally recognize the Gwich'in and Sahtu Land Claims. The department is currently consulting with the Gwich'in and Sahtu claimant organizations on the amendment.
Furthermore, the department is still committed to a thorough and comprehensive review of the Wildlife Act following division of the Northwest Territories.
Return To Oral Questions 116-13(6): Inuvialuit Wildlife Amendments
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.
Return To Oral Questions 190-13(6): Keewatin Chief Electrical Inspector
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 376
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. O'Brien on November 9, 1998, on behalf of the Honourable Jim Antoine, Minister of Public Works and Services.
The position of Regional Electrical Inspector in the Keewatin is not vacant. The employee in that position is on extended leave, and his return date is uncertain. In his absence the duties of the inspector are being covered from headquarters. A headquarters inspector is scheduled to be in Rankin Inlet and Arviat during the last week of November.
Public Works and Services has not received any complaints about the current handling of inspections. If the Member for Kivallivik is aware of any specific problems, I would be happy to look into them and take appropriate measures. Thank you.
Return To Oral Questions 190-13(6): Keewatin Chief Electrical Inspector
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery Mr. Arlooktoo.
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 376
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have the pleasure today of recognizing three individuals in the gallery, all very busy people on the division file. Mr. Joe Kunuk is the Deputy Minister of the Executive for the Nunavut government, he is among other things the former mayor of Iqaluit and president of the Nunatsiaq Liberal Party. Mr. Rick Bargery is our Assistant Deputy Minister of Division, and also Mr. John Quirke is the Clerk designate for the Nunavut Legislative Assembly.
--Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions Mr. Ootes.
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I received a reply to a previous question about employee confidentiality agreements for those who were working on the P3 process and the Premier was kind enough to send me an explanation. My question for the Premier is, that since employees sign an oath of office and agreement to secrecy, why was this extra request made of employees. It seems to me to be redundant, why would we need two? Thank you.
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Premier, Mr. Morin.
Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you. It is a pleasure to be back, Mr. Speaker. It is a reminder to remind them of the utmost importance of keeping secretive their duties, especially while they are dealing with peoples' financial stuff. Thank you.
Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
The oath of secrecy and oath of office is a fairly straightforward oath and I understand that the P3 secrecy agreement is much more complicated and legalistic. I wonder if the Premier could tell us if those employees who were required or are required in future, will be given legal assistance to have them look at this? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 376
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. They do have special training programs for this thing. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question was, will those individuals who will be required to sign this be provided independent legal advice on signing such a document? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
I wonder if the Premier would reconsider that. It is a very complicated piece of document that they have to sign, very legalese. I wonder if the Premier would reconsider that. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Morin.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be pleased to look into it for the Member but I do not think there is any requirement for them to have independent legal counsel, employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories. I believe that the Department of Justice has lots of lawyers. We will look into it for the Member and get back to him. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Question 206-13(6): Employees' Confidentiality Requirements
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up on my earlier member's statement about the nursing access year to be offered in Nunavut as announced on Monday by Mr. Dent, will that program be a repeat of the earlier program that was cancelled because of NUHRDS cuts earlier? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.
Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe it will be much the same program as was offered earlier, yes, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the program that was earlier cut was a considerable cause of a concern with the students, of course, in the program. I am wondering what type of consultation has been done with Nunavut Arctic college with this announcement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the biggest part of consultation has been with the Department of Education in Nunavut government because that department will have to agree to fund the program on an ongoing basis. We are optimistic that the department will agree that that program should be funded and that is why we are proposing to pay for an access program in this current year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What type of consideration was given to the participants on the earlier program, will they be prioritized for this program, will they have to repeat that program, what type of work was done for them? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I cannot answer specifically what sort of priority earlier students would have received. If students have already completed this course or this type of course, it would not make a lot of sense for them to repeat the course. Far better that they plan on attending the first year of the course of study if Nunavut Arctic College is successful at getting the Department of Education in Nunavut to fund the course. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 377
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Program
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess, that was the point, that we already had a one-year program that was cancelled; so I wonder why the Department of Education did not look at funding the second year of this program when you have already have students who are trained. Why repeat a program when you had students start a program they were told we could not fund, so now they are sitting around? This program starts in January and they have already done it. What do you do with people that have been trained for it now, a year or two years sitting around? Why was there no consideration given to the department to fund the program for two years and the second year of the program, not at the entry level year? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government's responsibility for funding Nunavut Arctic College ends on March 31, 1999. It would be impossible to run a program as we could not complete a program in that period of time. Since we were only recently allocated these funds, we looked at what was possible and have found it possible to complete an access program. Therefore, recognizing the need to train more nurses in the Nunavut region, we feel it is worthwhile embarking on this exercise at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Question 207-13(6): Nursing Training Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Henry.
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to Mr. Todd, the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board. I have spoken in the past about the unjust inequities, in the process the government has developed in determining settlement allowances, because Yellowknife is used as a basis for determining the allowances paid to GNWT employees in other communities. Yellowknife government employees have received no settlement allowance increases in this round of collective bargaining. When I last questioned the Minister, he stated because there was an offer on the table with the UNW on a new collective agreement, he was not prepared to revisit the issue at this time. At that same time, Mr. Speaker, the Minister did advise the House that he would give it some serious consideration. I am wondering, Mr. Speaker, now that pay equity has been removed from the table and both sides are back at the bargaining table because of the unjustness and unfairness of this particular part, will the government look at putting more money into the kitty for the employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories working in Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are at the bargaining table right now. As I have said on a number of occasions, and I said to my honourable colleague, for those that did not hear me, that we are not in a position and I am not prepared to intervene in the whole bargaining process. What I was prepared to do was take a look at how we evaluated the northern allowance component of Yellowknife versus Hay River. I think that was the discussion at the time and we are doing that. As far as the collective bargaining process, it would be inappropriate for the Minister to intervene in sensitive negotiations at this late hour. Thank you.
Return To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.
Supplementary To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would remind the Minister that I hear it quite well, thank you.
--Applause
Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that when two parties go back to the table, either side can introduce points that they have already talked about. If there is a new point introduced, no it cannot be negotiated at that time. What I am saying is, this is an unfair situation and I am saying to the government, why do you not correct this unjust situation now at this time when you have and it is not a case of interfering in the collective bargaining process. The parties are back at the table. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Henry, for the record what was your question?
Supplementary To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, why will he not introduce this and create a solution to an unjust situation? Why will he not direct his negotiators to correct the situation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
John Todd Keewatin Central
While I can appreciate my colleague's concern, his definition of unjust is exactly his definition. I do not see the situation as unjust, I see the situation with the analysed, with what the question was raised here several months ago. We are doing that, I have no intentions of intervening at this time, at this late juncture in the collective process. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Question 208-13(6): Inequities In Settlement Allowances
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Roland.
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 378
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my
question at this time will be directed to the Minister responsible for Finance. I would like to know if the news has come out regarding the UNW's position to appeal the decision on the bad faith bargaining issue that was decided some time ago. What affect or impact does that have on the mediation talks that are ongoing right now? Thank you.
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That was as much a surprise to me as it was to my honourable colleague that they would appeal at this late juncture, the ruling provided by Justice Richard. As far as I am concerned, we are bargaining in good faith. I hope, as I said earlier this morning, we can come to an agreement in a matter of days and move on so that our membership can vote on the agreement and get the money in the hands of our employees prior to Christmas. What impact will it have? In my opinion, none at this late juncture. Thank you.
Return To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland
Supplementary To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform us, seeing that tomorrow will be our last day of session for a bit, how will you keep us informed as Members of this Assembly if anything were to change between now and December? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
John Todd Keewatin Central
I will do the best I can to communicate with my colleague as I frequently do every morning, along with everybody else. I want to be clear here, I cannot intervene in the bargaining process as has been suggested. I can not put new stuff on the table, the reality is we have tabled what we think is a fair and reasonable offer. We are optimistic, I certainly am, that we will come to an agreement through the mediation this week or next week. I would hope the UNW would see the justice in allowing its membership to vote on this agreement. If there are any significant changes, and this government has to take a particular course of action, I will assure that the House knows, all the Members know, either through the written word. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Question 209-13(6): Appeal Of Bad Faith Bargaining Ruling
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng, regarding a press release that went out about the department and stakeholders seeking a new approach to the treatment of youth addictions. I would like to ask the Minister exactly who is involved in this initiative and what role does the alcohol and drug treatment, the people that deliver such programs in the communities, have on this committee? For instance, the Tl'oondih Healing Society, which deal with youth and alcohol programs, will they also be allowed to take part in this initiative?
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have all the names of all the individuals or groups involved in the review of the youth services treatment. I will commit to getting that information and advising all Members. Thank you.
Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell me if groups in my riding, such as the alcohol and drug committees in each of the communities, and also the Tl'oondih Healing Society who does play an active role regarding youth addictions, will they be available to access funds through this program in developing their input into this so that they can feel they are a part of this review process?
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can commit that certainly the results of our plan would be distributed to treatment centres that are interested so they could have an opportunity to have some input into the development of this policy, prior to it being finalized. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is imperative that communities, especially aboriginal communities, play a very active role in this study and report because of the problem I have had to deal with in this House in the last three years, especially dealing with the problems and concerns I have in my riding, which seem to be making a lot of headlines lately. I would like to ask the Minister exactly how does he see the involvement of these groups in this initiative and will they be actively involved in it?
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 379
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Addictions
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, they will have an opportunity to see the results of what is being planned and have an opportunity to have some input into that process by suggesting any changes, or confirming if we are heading in the right direction, in respect to those youth treatment services. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I heard the Minister say they will be actively involved. Will there be a public consultation process where there will be workshops in all communities, in the regions, so that you do have access to all outlining communities, and this initiative does not only become a Yellowknife initiative?
Supplementary To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are no plans right now to have extensive community consultations, otherwise we would not be able to put together anything in a timely fashion, in order to try and address these needs. What I had indicated is that for interested stakeholders, we will make available whatever policy is put in place, to give them an opportunity to review it and have some input into what is being contemplated. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Question 210-13(6): Treatment Of Youth Addictions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as per my Member's statement earlier, I would like to ask the Minister of Education how the department monitors the students who are applying for grants and loans under the Student Financial Assistance? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.
Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, everyone is treated the same under our Student Financial Assistance Program. A prospective student applies using the forms which are provided by the department. They fill out the forms, and return them to the department and the level of support is then assessed according to the responses from the student. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas.
Supplementary To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my next supplementary question is, are these sufficient loans or grants for the student's support? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is important to point out that the name of the program is Student Financial Assistance. It was not intended to be a program that provides 100 percent of the costs to students. It is recognized that students must also rely on their friends and family and on finding part-time work when they are not in school. The program could not afford to cover 100 percent of the cost for all of the applicants for Student Financial Assistance in the territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Barnabas.
Supplementary To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, some of these students are not from here, they are from outside of Yellowknife. It costs a lot of money, especially in the High Arctic area, when you have to send money to the student or anywhere else from outside of Yellowknife. They have to pay the amount of money they are sending plus fees and things like that. Mr. Speaker, my next question is, how does the Department of Education check to see if they are sufficient? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 380
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to note that most students travel to take their education. Not all students travel just to Yellowknife, but a considerable number travel to Fort Smith, Inuvik, Rankin Inlet, Iqaluit, and Cambridge Bay, the regional centres, in order to take their training in northern colleges. Other students travel across Canada to attend university and southern colleges. The program is the same for all students in the Northwest Territories, and the students themselves will have to determine when they need to apply for additional assistance. We do offer programs such as needs-assessed loans, which the student can, after they have used up their grants, apply for. As the name would suggest, that is based on an assessment of the student's needs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Question 211-13(6): Student Financial Assistance Applications
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. Picco.
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, following up on my earlier question on the access program for nursing, Mr. Speaker, the Nursing Access Program. We already had the first year of that access program as we have ascertained. We have people who completed the first year. I wonder, could the Minister elaborate on who or what department does the Department of Education consult with on the offering to fund the Nursing Access Program again for the first year, beginning in January? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Just to remind the Members, when you direct your question to a Minister, to say so. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.
Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have previously indicated, the main consultation was with the Department of Education with the Government of Nunavut because they have to provide the support to the college to ensure the program can continue. There was also consultation with our Department of Health and Social Services, as well as with the Nunavut Department of Health and Social Services. The proposal was basically among the funding agencies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just for clarification, for example, in this case if the Minister is going to fund the first year, what is the difference in the consultation for funding for the second year? You are saying to begin with that well we have to make sure that the Nunavut government can commit to the second year? We have already had the first year, why cannot they commit to the second year? If this government funded the second year it is still a nine month program either way you slice it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure I understand the question. As I had previously indicated to the Member, this government is responsible for funding the operations of the Nunavut region only for approximately five more months. There is no way that a program could be started in January that would take in the students who had already completed an access program, and have it concluded by March 31, 1999.
Unless there is a commitment on the behalf of the Nunavut government to carry on the program, there is no point in starting the first year of an ongoing program, so what we are doing is providing an upgrading program. The Government of Nunavut may choose to fund the program through Nunavut Arctic College or they may choose to support students to take the course here in Yellowknife. We do not know yet what the final result will be with the Government of Nunavut but we are confident enough that students from Nunavut should get the access program because they will find a way, I am sure, to continue on with their studies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess my point is that we have already had an access program. If the Minister is indicating again that the access program is only a five month program, I am wondering what then the second year of the nursing program is, would it be nine months? January to March is three months. Nunavut starts on April 1 so is he committing right now with these funds announced that he is only funding the program from January to March for three months or, is he looking at funding them from January to June for six months? Is the program a five-month program or is it a six-month program, what is the duration?
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government cannot commit funds beyond March 31, 1999. I believe that the access program will be completed by March 31, 1999. That is the limit of what we can fund. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Final supplementary, Mr. Picco
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is telling me that he indicates that he thinks the Nunavut government can recruit students over the next six weeks to start a program in January that is going to end in March. He is going to run a 12-week program, that is what he is funding, is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Dent.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not absolutely certain how long the program is but I believe it is around 13 weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Question 212-13(6): Nursing Access Program
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 381
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Finance. I wonder if the Minister would give this House a brief update or tell us the status on the capital and business plans that are being put together now and the timing of these? Thank you.
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe this morning the FMBS approved the business plans for the west and east. What is important here is that we would then move the western business plans if you like, forward to the Western Caucus for review. The situation in the east is slightly different in that we do have the Office of the Interim Commissioner preparing plans as well. We are going to provide our business planning for the Nunavut government, for the year 1999-2000 to the Interim Commissioner's office as advice to him and to his group. If they so choose to use that, that is up to them. At the present time they were approved today. They will be forwarded to the Western Caucus and the Nunavut Caucus, as well as the Office of the Interim Commissioner. Thank you.
Return To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.
Supplementary To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated that the plans put forth to the Interim Commissioner's office are just primarily advice. When might the Nunavut Members expect to see these plans and have some input into them?
Supplementary To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
John Todd Keewatin Central
We have prepared the business plans based upon the two new agreements that were recently signed both east and west with Mr. Martin, the federal Finance Minister. Based upon our best calculated experience in terms of where money is spent, et cetera, the Nunavut Caucus from an eastern perspective will be provided with these business plans tomorrow probably or the next day. We have also been sharing them with the Interim Commissioner's Office. I believe that is why Mr. Kunuk is here this week as well as a number of other things, the Nunavut Caucus and the business plans as we have prepared them, and what is being done in respect to the Interim Commissioner's office and his business plans. At some point there has to be a meeting and a consensus has to be reached as to how you are going to move forward with a business plan so that when the new Nunavut government gets elected, it has an opportunity to review it and, if it agrees with the business plan, approve it or not.
It is kind of an awkward situation in a sense because there is the Interim Commissioner's office out there that currently has the authority and legislative authority to approve budgets. Yet, we have an election coming on February 15th that will bring a new Nunavut Legislature that will ultimately approve a new budget, I would suggest, some time after April. We will provide as quickly as we can to everybody our best effort if you want, the business plans for the Nunavut government. It will then be up to the Interim Commissioner's office, Nunavut Caucus and others to determine whether these plans are appropriate and hopefully move it forward at the end of the day to the new Assembly once it gets elected on February 15, 1999. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Question 213-13(6): Update On 1999-2000 Business Plans
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 382
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Oral questions. Item 7, Written questions. Item 8, Returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 382
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, return to Written Question 5-13(6) asked by Mr. Rabesca to the Minister of Transportation concerning project to reconstruct Highway 3.
Return To Written Question 5-13(6): Project To Reconstruct Highway # 3
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 382
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
1. How much money has been allocated to this project?
In the current fiscal year, 1998-1999, the reconstruction of Highway #3 has an approved capital budget of $8,680,000.
2. Over how many years will this project be undertaken?
Based on current project estimates and funding levels, the reconstruction of Highway #3 from Rae- Edzo to Yellowknife is expected to take between 12 and 14 years to complete.
3. How much money will be spent in each of these years?
The department's expenditures on this project in any year will depend on the capital budget the Legislative Assembly approves for it.
4. Who are the contractors and for what portion of the contract have they been hired?
The department has negotiated contracts with the Denton cho Corporation (Yellowknife's Dene First Nation) for the clearing on the Yellowknife end (km 318 to 333.5) of the project and with Nishi-Khon Freeway Inc (Dogrib Rae Band) for clearing on the Rae-Edzo end (km 243.9 to 256.8) of the project.
The reconstruction work on the Rae-Edzo end of the project has been publicly tendered and is currently under review. The department has not yet awarded a contract.
The department has not yet awarded a contract for the reconstruction work on the Yellowknife end of the project. The contract will be advertised as a public tender on November 30, 1998.
5. Also, will local preference be taken into consideration when contracts are awarded?
In the award of contracts, the Department of Transportation will apply local and Northern preferences in accordance with the Government of the Northwest Territories Business Incentive Policy.
6. Who will be undertaking the right of way clearing of the highway?
The future contracts for right of way clearing on the Highway 3 reconstruction project will be awarded according to the government's contracting regulations and policies as they are in force and apply lat the time.
7. Will the Department of Transportation use the same principles it used with the residents of Fort Providence, such as local aboriginals negotiating the right-of-way work on the portion of the highway nearest to the community?
The answer to this question is the same as for question 6.
8. Will the majority of service work be done by local businesses?
The Business Incentive Policy encourages contractors to make use of local businesses and services.
9. Will heavy equipment operators with journeymen tickets be given first preference in being hired?
The successful contractors will hire employees who are trained and qualified to operate their heavy equipment safely and effectively.
10. Will the GNWT ensure that the benefits of this project remain in the north and in the communities that are affected by this project?
The conditions of the reconstruction contract for the Rae-Edzo section (km 243.9 to 256.4) stipulate that 90 percent of the on-site employees are northern residents and that 50 percent of the on-site employees are hired from the local community.
Return To Written Question 5-13(6): Project To Reconstruct Highway # 3
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 383
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Picco.
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Page 383
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, and wishes to report that Bill 6 is now ready for consideration in committee of the whole as amended and reprinted and, Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bill 6 reported into committee of the whole for tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Page 383
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5). Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Picco, you have unanimous consent. Bill 6 will be ordered into committee of the whole for tomorrow. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. O'Brien.
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Page 383
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed Bill 12, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 1998, No. 2, and wishes to report that Bill 12 is now ready for consideration in committee of the whole as amended and reprinted. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bill 12 ordered into the committee of the whole for tomorrow. Thank you.
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Page 383
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Kivallivik is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bill 12 ordered into committee of the whole for tomorrow. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. O'Brien, you have unanimous consent. Bill 12 will be ordered into committee of the whole for tomorrow. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Dent.
Tabled Document 32-13(6): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Annual Report 1997-98
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 383
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a document entitled "Northwest Territories Power Corporation Annual Report 1997-98." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Tabled Document 32-13(6): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Annual Report 1997-98
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 383
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Tabling of documents. Mr. Antoine.
Tabled Document 33-13(6): Business Development Fund Recipients: April 1, 1997 To March 31, 1998
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 383
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a tabled document on behalf of Mr. Kakfwi. I wish to table the following document entitled "The Business Development Fund Recipients April 1, 1997 to March 31, 1998." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Tabled Document 33-13(6): Business Development Fund Recipients: April 1, 1997 To March 31, 1998
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 383
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Ootes.
Motion 11-13(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 384
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, November 16, 1998, I will move the following motion.
I move, seconded by the honourable Member for High Arctic, that the Speaker be authorized to set such sitting hours as the Speaker, after consultation, deems fit to assist with the business before the House. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will seek unanimous consent to deal with my motion today. Thank you.
Motion 11-13(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mr. Ootes.
Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions
Page 384
Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to deal with this motion today. Do I have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Ootes, you have unanimous consent.
Motion 11-13(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker
Item 16: Motions
Page 384
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for High Arctic, that the Speaker be authorized to set such sitting hours as the Speaker, after consultation, deems fit, to assist with the business before the House.
Motion 11-13(6): Setting Of Sitting Hours By Speaker
Item 16: Motions
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Bill 14: Nunavut Judicial System Implementation Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central that Bill 14, Nunavut Judicial System Implementation Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.
Bill 14: Nunavut Judicial System Implementation Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 14 has had first reading. First reading of bills.
Bill 15: Nunavut Statutes Amendment Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central that Bill 15, Nunavut Statutes Amendment Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.
Bill 15: Nunavut Statutes Amendment Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 15 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Bill 16: Nunavut Statutes Replacement Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Natilikmiot that Bill 16, Nunavut Statutes Replacement Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.
Bill 16: Nunavut Statutes Replacement Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried Bill 16 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Mr. Todd.
Bill 17: Division Measures Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin South that Bill 17, Division Measures Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.
Bill 17: Division Measures Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried Bill 17 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Bill 18: Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Statutes Amendment Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake that Bill 18, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Statutes Amendment Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 18: Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Statutes Amendment Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 18 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Mr. Henry.
Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Public Highways Act And The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for North Slave that Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Public Highways Act and the Motor Vehicles Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Public Highways Act And The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 384
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 19 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Mr. Henry.
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 384
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with second reading of Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Public Highways Act and the Motor
Vehicles Act.
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 385
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking consent to deal with Bill 19. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Henry, you have consent.
Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Public Highways Act And The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 385
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for North Slave that Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Public Highways Act and the Motor Vehicles Act, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Public Highways Act to remove the maximum speed limit that may be established by the Commissioner. The Motor Vehicles Act is also amended to remove the maximum speed limit that may be established by a municipal council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Public Highways Act And The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 385
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 19 has had second reading and accordingly is referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Tabled Document 26-13(6) Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission 1998, with Mr. Steen in the chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 385
The Chair Vince Steen
I call the committee to order. We have only one item on the agenda for consideration in committee of the whole for today. Tabled Document 26-13(6) Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries 1998. We will continue with the debates and comments on the document after we take a short break.
--Break
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 385
The Chair Vince Steen
I call the committee to order. We are on Tabled Document 26-13(6), Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission 1998. Before we proceed with further general comments, I understand we are through with questions to the law clerk at this time. I would just like a general consensus that the process we are going to have here is general comments from all the Members first, and perhaps the need for another round of general comments. We will then accept motions and debates on the motions. If I could have a consensus of that process. Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 385
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 385
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you. For the Members' information, I have Mr. Henry and Mr. Roland having made general comments on Tuesday. If they wish to make further general comments, they would have to wait until the rest of the Members have had the first round on general comments. At this time, I would like to recognize the Mayor of Yellowknife and rather than go through the names of everybody else, I would like to welcome you all to the committee of the whole.
--Applause
Now I recognize, first on my list here, is Mr. Miltenberger. General comments.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 385
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This debate on the Electoral Boundaries Commission is not a singular event, but is part of a process. We are in the process of, in fact, trying to weave the political fabric for the new Northwest Territories. That fabric has to be strong in the north, south, east and west and not just the centre, Mr. Chairman. In this debate, I see two main issues I would like to speak briefly to today. First issue is, how much government do we need in the Northwest Territories? The second issue is how many more seats and political power does Yellowknife need?
Mr. Chairman, we are a consensus government. I have been making a case with my colleagues for the last couple of years that, in fact, with the consensus government we can function with 14. I have been consistent in that position. I did not think a boundaries commission was appropriate when it was voted on. I still maintain that, in fact, we can work with 14 MLAs.
I also want to emphasize and heavily underscore that we cannot forget our partners in the Aboriginal Summit. They said because of the situation with aboriginal governments, negotiating self-government arrangements, and the fact we are a government in transition in the territory, in transition, we should not add any seats or make any significant changes at this time. They asked us to hold off on the boundaries commission. We chose to disregard the request. Now we are, in fact, debating this particular boundaries commission report. I do not think it would be in our best interests to be seen to be disregarding completely again, the position and request of the people of the Aboriginal Summit. Especially, in light of the recent statements made in this House by the Premier and by the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs on western governance and the urging of all people to work towards partnership arrangements. We also cannot neglect or not hear what the people were telling us. The theme I heard, I have read, is people do not want any more government. What they would rather see is money put into programs.
Mr. Chairman, I believe we can work with 14 MLAs, contrary to the position put forward by many people. I do not think we should second-guess ourselves or create a self-fulfilling prophecy by saying we cannot do it before we even try it. There are some things we can do to, in fact, make that an achievable goal. Mr. Chairman, we can change our committee structure somewhat. To address the issues of accountability and transparency, we have to once again, bring the issue of opening up our committee meetings more to the public. By my estimation, I would suggest we have 95 percent of our meetings in camera. While not all meetings can be held in the open, I would suggest we can do significantly better than having five percent of the meetings of a public government in public. I think that is a key area, especially with the constant demand for accountability and transparency.
Very clearly, the message I got from my constituents was put the money where we need it, into education, housing, dealing with children and seniors. No more politicians. My opinion, if there is a court challenge, then let there be a court challenge. That is the legal right of the people who want to do that. I think it will be up to us to make a strong legal case, substantiating the unique northern characteristics that would justify maintaining the current number of MLAs we now have.
In regard to Yellowknife. In my opinion, Yellowknife clearly has had unique advantages no other community in the Northwest Territories has or will ever have. It has clearly flourished beyond any expectation than any other communities will have. Since 1967, they have basically quadrupled in size. I do not think you can classify Yellowknife any other way on a comparative basis than as a rich and privileged community.
I think Rene Fumoleau made some very appropriate comments in the article he put into the October 30 Yellowknifer. I would just like to quote one: "In a democracy every one is equal on voting day but what happens to equality between elections? Do all voters have equal access to elected Members, to deputy ministers, superintendents, executive assistants, deputy secretaries, directors, executive officers and planning officers? We all know rich voters talk more loudly than poor ones. Voters who know the right friends, the right doors and the short cuts have more power than their own ballots."
Mr. Chairman, I think that is clearly demonstrated here today by the many good people of Yellowknife who have the luxury and benefit of being able to walk out of their offices and step into the Legislative Assembly to let us know and try to influence us in the decision-making in this House. My constituents do not have that opportunity and there is not one constituent from outside of this community who has that opportunity unless they want to afford to charter or drive in. Yellowknife was four of 24. Now they are four of 14. I think that is a significant shift. In my opinion the number of seats should stay the same. The tradition of one Yellowknife Member on Cabinet should also be maintained. What we are talking about is not just numbers and not just seats. We are talking about a political balance. There are many considerations other than the pure numbers. There are cultural issues. There are the geographic issues. The issue of constitutional development. What is happening with our partners in the Aboriginal Summit and self-government negotiations? We cannot ignore those.
Mr. Chairman, in addition to the millions of dollars Yellowknife gets as part of their normal funding with this territorial government, they have been given for example, $10 million from Sirius Diamonds to set up diamond cutting and such in Yellowknife, an outfit from BC with three employees. We are going to give them a line of credit that we have given nobody else. We have offered up $1.8 million to Giant Mine and the same offer as far as I understand to Con Mine, to help them keep their operation going. We have poured in another $1.5 million or so to expand the airport because of the diamonds. We cannot forget last year the $400,000 that was given to the city to help them over the tough times they faced because of deficit reduction and such. A fact and an opportunity that I would like to point out that I do not believe any other community was given. This is not a case of kicking sand in the faces of the people of Yellowknife, to use a phrase I recently heard.
Mr. Chairman, in my opinion, Yellowknife will be the major beneficiary out of all the diamond development that is going on in this part of the country. There have been impact benefit agreements with the aboriginal people, but by far the biggest economic boost is going to come through and into this city. That is fine, but I think that is part of the equation. Yellowknife, in my opinion, has most of the political cards. They have accessibility no one else has and have enjoyed for 30 years as you look around and see the benefit of the huge machinery of government that is a presence in the north. In fact, for many years was the engine that helped drive a northern economy. That will continue. There is no chance any other community will ever reap that kind of benefit. In fact, most of our communities have been fighting to stay where we are or prevent ourselves from going backwards or to draw ourselves back to where we used to be, because of the shifting economy, the downsizing of government.
Mr. Chairman, in my opinion all the communities and people outside of Yellowknife should be, and I believe are, concerned about the political balance. I believe Yellowknife is well served with four Members in this House. I believe, Mr. Chairman, in fact, the quality of the current MLAs speaks for itself in that regard. I consider my point of view to be one that is pro, a strong balanced Northwest Territories and not an anti-Yellowknife vote or voice as has been made out in some cases. Mr. Chairman, we are in transition as a territory. In the next Assembly, we will be in transition as a government. We have to listen to what the people told us during the boundaries commission, we have to listen to what our summit partners have asked us. We have to give consensus government a chance and I believe we can make it work with 14. Above all, we have to focus whatever money we do have on programs and services to the people in the communities, not on more MLAs. At the appropriate time, Mr. Chairman, I will be putting forward motions to agree that we put Enterprise into the Deh Cho and that the current four ridings be adjusted to make them comparable in size and to rename them as suggested in the commission report. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 386
The Chair Vince Steen
I thank the Member from Fort Smith for those general comments. I recognize Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 386
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on Tuesday, I and other Members had the opportunity to present a number of questions to the law clerk. I think I did that with the objective to ensure that other Members will have an opportunity to see what her opinions were in the event that the Boundaries Commission Report is not adopted. Her comments reinforced to me an opinion that a condition of effective representation is relative parity of voting power, so that every person has similar power when compared to another person. That is certainly not the case when we consider Yellowknife. There are factors that have been used such as geography that need to be taken into account to ensure that legislative assemblies do effectively represent people. There has been
consideration of variances of plus or minus 25 percent but in our case the variances are much more than that. They are very extensive. It should also be remembered that a person's vote should not be diluted to the extent that he or she no longer has effective representation. In having electoral districts with smaller populations for effective representation of some people does not legitimize excessive under-representation of peoples in other areas, such as the case of Yellowknife versus Tu Nedhe.
I would like to speak for a moment about the Boundaries Commission. The Boundaries Commission was established through a motion in this House, and that motion was moved by Mr. Roland and it was a recorded vote. Ten people voted in favour of that motion. One of the items in that motion stated that the commission shall take into consideration the density or rate of growth of the population of any part of the territory. That was one of the considerations, Mr. Chairman.
The make-up of the commission was a diverse cross-section of members from throughout the Northwest Territories. We had a representative from Tuktoyaktuk, from your constituency, Mr. Chairman. We had a representative from Fort Simpson and one from the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. They were a diverse group that represented all of the people of the Northwest Territories. Their recommendation was unanimous that Yellowknife should have two more seats. Unanimous. There was no question about that. Now, I ask Members here, is that an unreasonable thing to follow? I do not think so. This was a commission we established, by majority, ten people. It appears now that the objections that Members have are based not on democratic rights, but appear to be because they are unpopular. That is no reason to put forward an objection. Unpopularity is no reason. That is not good enough for me.
There was a case, apparently, in Alberta, I understand, that ruled that the issue of unpopularity could not be an issue. We need, in our democracy, equality of citizenship and there is such a thing irrespective of gender, race and we are a society that should have equality. Yellowknife should have equality here. We do not see that in this Legislative Assembly. There is a possibility to make that equal. The commission's recommendations try to restore that equality. Mr. Miltenberger referred to the fact that we have adequate representation with four in this Legislative Assembly. I would like to point out to him that in 1976, Yellowknife had 22 percent of the population and 27 percent of the representation in this Legislative Assembly. Today, it has 44 percent of the population, with only 30 percent of the representation. Times have changed, Yellowknife has grown. We have a lot more population today. We cannot ignore that.
The law of the land says there must be equal representation. When one constituency has 800 people and another constituency has 7,000 people, how can that be looked at by Members here and say there is no disparity? There sure is disparity.
I would like to speak about effective government for a moment. Again, Mr. Miltenberger spoke about the fact that we can work with 14 Members. I have had serious reservations about our ability to operate with 14 Members. When we consider that there will be six Cabinet Members, one Speaker, that leaves seven Members. We also today, have six standing committees. Just because we are dividing, does not mean the workload of this Assembly is cut dramatically because it is not. The workload will continue the same as ever. We will have the same government departments, we will have the same processes that are here now. For Mr. Miltenberger to suggest that six or seven Members, Ordinary Members, can provide effective opposition in this House and have an effective balance to six Cabinet Ministers, is ludicrous. That is just ludicrous. It is hopelessly unrealistic.
The new system that we are going into will alter the power to Cabinet. That is not there today. We have 15 Members here today, to be able to speak and ask questions and to look at the Cabinet Members and to hold them accountable. That will not be the case, I will guarantee it to you when we sit here with seven Members against six Cabinet Members. I have a tough enough time getting questions answered as it is, Mr. Chairman. I do not know whether the Members were listening today to the answers, but if we are sitting here with seven Members, we will never get answers to our questions.
The question has been raised about the cost of extra seats. A good deal of comment has been raised about that. Effective democracy is not something that you do through a cost analysis or a benefit analysis situation. If that was the case, why are we going to three territories in the Canadian north with 400,000 people. If cost is a matter to the federal government, well then we should not have three territories.
Nunavut recognizes that they need more Members to operate with. They will have 19 Members, Mr. Chairman. Iqaluit alone, with 4,000 people, will have three MLAs. In my presentation to the Commissioner, I included a lot of legal precedents. I will not review these here today, but they were recorded for those who are interested in the submission to the commission.
I would like to make reference to the fact that my constituents want to pursue more representation. Should the issue of voter parity not be addressed here, then there will, in my mind, no doubt be a court challenge. We should not have to go to court to prove beyond a doubt that we are right in demanding two more seats for Yellowknife. Members should remember the questions we asked on Tuesday, to the law clerk and the answers to those questions. I think they will prove beyond a doubt that there is a case there to take this to a challenge. I have no doubt in my mind that a challenge will be successful for adequate representation in Yellowknife, at least of two seats. It could affect other constituencies if it does go to a court challenge.
To me, the Boundaries Commission was a very credible commission with very credible people. They have made a very acceptable, credible report that we should adopt. I urge my fellow Members today to do the right thing. I urge them to vote in favour of giving Yellowknife two more seats.
I would like to make as a final comment, Mr. Chairman, some reference to Mr. Miltenberger's comments about Yellowknife getting everything. I, and my citizens, are tiring of that. That is not true. We represent 17,000 people. They are taxpayers in this northern government, big taxpayers. They contribute a tremendous amount to our economy.
When Mr. Miltenberger refers to $10 million to Yellowknife for Sirius Diamonds, that is strictly a loan guarantee. No $10 million was given to Sirius Diamonds. No $10 million was given to Yellowknife. $1 million to Giant Mine? Our finance Minister has pointed out that if we do not keep that mine going, we will lose $19 million per year in taxes in this territory. It is a cheap price to pay. That is not to the citizens of Yellowknife. It is to the citizens of the whole of the Northwest Territories.
--Applause
That is what keeps this government operating. Otherwise we would have another deficit of another $20 million. $1.5 million dollars to expand the airport, absolutely untrue. We did not get $1.5 million for the airport. $750,000 was spent to build some facilities out there but they are charging $20,000 a month to those facilities to operate out of there. Mr. Chairman, I would like to end on that basis, my time is up but I would like to state that Yellowknife is certainly not over-privileged by any means. We pay our way here. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 388
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. We are considering Tabled Document number 26-13. I have Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 388
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will start off first by recognizing that Tuktoyaktuk and Holman Island, or Holman, both requested an amendment to the Nunakput riding by establishing a separate seat for Tuktoyaktuk. This suggestion was that it would then leave Holman, Paulatuk and Sachs Harbour as a separate riding. Mr. Chairman, I made an oral presentation to the Electoral Boundaries Commission in Tuktoyaktuk on August 12 and in there I did not support, nor did I oppose the suggestion.
As an MLA, I pointed out that it is not easy for me to reach the settlement of Holman, but there are regular flights to Sachs and Paulatuk from Inuvik, which allows me for very short connections. In order to reach Holman, I have to fly first to Yellowknife and then down to Holman. I also pointed out that separating the communities as was suggested would not solve the problem because there are still no scheduled flights in between Sachs, Holman and Paulatuk. That would not resolve the problem. I did point out that Holman does, in fact, receive all its services at this point in time from the Kitikmeot or from Yellowknife directly and there are direct flights to Yellowknife. Furthermore, 75 percent of the residents of Holman are, in fact, directly related to Inuit of Kugluktuk and Cambridge. Only 25 percent of them may be related to the Inuvialuit in the Beaufort. I suggested that if any one of those four of my communities were to justify their riding, it would have been Holman, based on the differences they have at this present time and the fact that they are not connected to the Beaufort. The unfortunate part of it is, they do not have the numbers. I pointed that out as well, there are only four hundred and some residents in the community of Holman.
Mr. Chairman, I also pointed out that, at the present time, there are different requirements and different workloads for MLAs than they had in the past because the government has now put in place boards, education boards, and also health boards which take a lot of workload off the MLAs. There are also wildlife boards through the land claims which basically remove almost all questioning of wildlife concerns. The people now have opportunity to take their concerns directly to the board. That is what they do. That makes a lot less workload for MLAs. I am not suggesting the boards are removing the responsibilities of the MLAs, just removing some of the workload. I pointed that out. I did not at that point in time, Mr. Chairman, suggest whether there should be a change in the particular riding of Nunakput. I note that in the Boundaries Commission Report, the commissioners have not recognized this request. I note also that one of the commissioners was in fact from the community of Tuktoyaktuk. I have to take into consideration she gave and the rest of the commissioners gave serious thought to this.
Mr. Chairman, I now turn to the report itself. I suggest we take and look, give some serious significance to see exactly who was on this Boundaries Commission. We must not ignore the fact that one of them is a Supreme Court judge. We should ask ourselves why the act is in such a way that a Supreme Court judge is on the Boundaries Commission. The fact of the matter is, to make sure that whatever comes out of the Boundaries Commission can stand a challenge under the Canadian Charter of Rights. Obviously one of the main duties of the Supreme Court judge would be to ensure it would in fact, meet the requirements of the Constitution. I give great significance to the fact that the Supreme Court judge is on that Boundaries Commission. I also give great significance to the fact that she put forward a minority recommendation. I suggest she may not have been sure the recommendation of the majority of the commissioners could, in fact, stand a challenge. Furthermore, the references to a smaller riding for Yellowknife North I believe it is, did not take into consideration there were other requests for the same type of ridings in other parts of the territory. Nunakput was requesting smaller ridings, so was Nahendeh as was Fort Rae, Rae-Edzo. I am sure the commissioner could not see reacting or responding to the request for a small riding for Mr. Erasmus' riding, without taking into consideration the request from the other communities in other parts of the territory.
I also take into consideration the fact that she could have suggested only one Member for Yellowknife. She did not. She supported two Members. All she did was change the numbers within those two, so you divide all six evenly or as close to evenly as possible. Therefore I think she was making sure that whatever was recommended will stand a challenge and we do not have to worry about it. One of the questions we put to the legal counsel the other day was whether or not, what would Supreme Court judges do and what would they not do in certain circumstances. I suggest all our answers from the Supreme Court judge that was sitting on this commission she is indicating to us what we should do. Although I favour and I would think at some time in the future, maybe possibly the next Assembly, there would be struck another Boundaries Commission to address the fact that aboriginal groups do not want to deal with Boundaries Commissions at this time.
There are individuals who do not want to deal with Boundaries Commissions at this time based on the uncertainty in the political arena at this time. Hopefully, in two years' time, three years' time, the political arena will be more settled. At that point in time, we could possibly look at all the boundaries and see whether or not we could in fact, have more than what has been recommended here, 16. I also speak against having small numbers. I prefer large numbers. I think the public should know that this government receives sufficient funding from the federal government to cover the cost of 24 Members. We do receive funding for 24 Members. We are not going to be cutting programs in order to have 24 or whatever number. We do not cut programs. The funding is already in the formula agreement. We can take up to 24. The funding is there. I suggest in the future we deal with that. We re-address, we have another look at this thing. For the time being, Mr. Chairman, I support the minority recommendations of the Boundaries Commissioners. That is what I say.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 389
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. I have the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent and the Premier subsequent. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 389
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when I look at this I think I see two issues: one being the total size of the Legislature and the other the need to ensure relative equity of representation. They are both tied together.
This report is an attempt by the commissioners to balance what they heard from the public and I think they reflected what they heard relatively well. I have to congratulate them on walking a fine line and doing as good a job as they have.
Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I do not agree 100 percent with their recommendations. I think they have chosen to be conservative. Probably because they heard from many who said, we do not need any more politicians. It is hard not to know today in what high esteem politicians are held. Tuesday there was a survey in the Globe and Mail which confirmed politicians are indeed dead last or lowest in terms of popularity in Canada, politicians in general. I would agree with the Member from Nunakput that in fact, it would make more sense to have more Members of the Legislature rather than fewer. When I made my presentation to the Boundaries Commission, I had suggested we needed 19 or 20, with 17 being an absolute minimum, to allow the proper functioning of the Legislative Assembly and its committees. I noted with some interest that Professor Graham White submitted a paper to the Boundaries Commission in which he argued that leaving the number of seats at 14 in fact constitutes a significant change to the current form of government. I agree. Continuing with 14 Members would remove the inherent strength the Ordinary Members now enjoy, with a significant majority.
The Legislative Assembly is the face of the public government that people of the north see. If we have only 14 Members, it really will constitute a significant shift from what we have now because Cabinet will almost completely control the governing process. The public will not see that Ordinary Members can hold the government accountable and will worry about whether or not the public interest can be protected.
I think the responsible course is to ensure we set up a system that can successfully govern. There has been some argument too that we should make no change until self-government negotiations are further along or concluded and that the constitutional process should have a chance to be concluded. Mr. Chairman, there is no question that self-government negotiations and constitutional discussions will change the face of government in the north. The constitutionally protected right to self-government means institutions of government affecting nearly half of our population, will continue to develop at the negotiating table. However, since we do not know how long it is going to take to conclude those discussions, it would be irresponsible to stop the evolution of responsible public government in the north. In fact, Mr. Chairman, I will be very surprised, if the 14th Assembly does not sit for at least a full four-year term before we have consensus on a new Constitution, which of course then is going to have to be passed by the federal parliament as a new NWT Act. It could be even longer than the next Legislative Assembly, that the system we are setting up now will continue.
A number of Members have suggested Yellowknife does not need more seats because residents have easy access to government bureaucrats. Mr. Chairman, I would have to say that Yellowknife residents probably do have better access to people in government. They run into them at the grocery store, the arena, curling rink, at the library. There is no question though that most contact, even by Yellowknife residents, with government agencies or departments is by phone, something which is possible throughout the Northwest Territories for all residents.
While Yellowknife residents can walk to the Legislative Assembly, I have yet to see that change the way Members vote in this Assembly. The Member from Thebacha talked about the benefits of government. There is no question government has fuelled the growth of Yellowknife over the past 20 years. The law of Canada, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms says individual rights must be respected. Relative parity is required. Economic advantage, population or the ability to walk into the Legislature is not what governs the size of the Legislature or where the seats are located.
As the Alberta Court of Appeals said in talking about the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act and I quote: "The real issue may be not about adequate representation of the less populated areas, but under-representation of more populated areas. No argument for effective representation of one group, legitimizes under-representation of another group. Arguments about the minimal size for ridings in lightly populated areas, inevitably lead to the question, why the Legislature cannot accommodate those requests and the demand for parity by enlarging the Legislature. No doubt a Legislature can be too large but it also can be too small. In the light of the rule in Charter, the overall size of the Legislature will, in the future inevitably come under Charter's scrutiny."
So, Mr. Chairman, I think this argues in support of what you suggested. In the not too distant future, we need to reconsider the size of this Legislature. I would just like to respond to one thing the Member from Thebacha pointed out. Actually the Member for Inuvik mentioned it on Tuesday as well. That is the change in going from four of 24 to four of 14. I would like to point out right now Yellowknife has 26 percent of the population with 17 percent of the seats. We are only nine percent off what we should be. If we stick with 14 seats, or four of 14, Yellowknife will have 44 percent of the population of the territory, with 29 percent of the seats. That is a 15 percent difference. In fact, if we stay at four of 14, we are diminished in our representation.
Mr. Chairman, the report is a conservative minimum in what we can do, I would say. The commissioners have looked at this issue of representation and I believe that in order to protect the existence of the smaller constituencies, they have made a recommendation that we must follow. As legislators, we have a responsibility to respect the Constitution and the other laws of Canada. Given the case law and the opinions provided by the law clerk, we must recognize that the recommendation of the commission will probably save us from the expense and uncertainty that would result from a Charter challenge. We should lead and do the right thing by supporting the recommendations of the commission.
Mr. Chairman, in June, when we set up the Boundaries Commission, Member after Member stood and said, we should send the commission out to hear the people. Let the people have their say, most of us said. Well, we have sent the commissioners out. As you have noted, Mr. Chairman, two from smaller communities and one a Supreme Court justice from Yellowknife. They have listened to the people. They have told us what they think we should do based on public consultation and the laws of Canada. Mr. Chairman, I sincerely hope Members will support the recommendations of the commission. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 390
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Dent. I would like to recognize Mr. Morin, Member for Tu Nedhe, next.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 390
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Members of the Boundaries Commission for their report. I would also like to thank them for coming into my riding. They came into Fort Resolution. They were unable to come into Lutsel K'e because of a death in the community, so it was put off and they did not have the time to make it back there. This is the second time we have had a Boundaries Commission in the Legislative Assembly that I have been a Member of. The last time it was more to realign the boundaries to make them fit the line between Nunavut and the new Western Territory.
A lot of people in the past have said that when division comes on April 1, 1999, some of the people of the western Arctic were hoping we would have a new constitution to show a clear path of what the new Western Territory would look like. Unfortunately, that has not happened, but talks are ongoing with the people in the Western Territory about how the new Western Territory will look in the future.
I do not think we will ever have the day when the fireworks will go off and we will have a new constitution, a clear direction of where the new Western Territory will go. I think that will evolve through the claim tables and I think that will evolve with the people of the western Arctic working together. Right now, we know that in the Western Territory the Inuvialuit have a claim. We know that the Gwich'in government has a claim. We know that the Sahtu government has a claim. We know that the Dogrib Nation is negotiating a land claim and the negotiations are going fairly well. We know that Treaty 8 is looking at establishing a table to start negotiating a claim. We know that the South Slave Metis are negotiating a claim. We know that the Deh Cho region is looking at some sort of working relationship to explore what they will do with their inherent right of self-government in that region and possibly a future claim. We know these things. We also know that the Aboriginal Summit has requested the Members of the Legislative Assembly to keep the status quo as we evolve into the new Western Territory.
No one can sit here today and talk about the workload of the future because no one knows what that will be. We know it will not be the same as it is today, but we do not know what it will be. We also know that through self-government agreements and through that claims process that aboriginal governments have the inherent right of self-government and they will chose how they express that right, whether that be through a partnership agreement with the federal government and territorial government, which I personally think it should be and I support, or a parallel system. Meaning, direct relationship with the federal government. I think, for the interest of the City of Yellowknife and for the interest of all people in the western Arctic, a partnership approach would be the best approach. I believe that it is our government's responsibility to supply the glue that holds all those regions together.
I myself, personally, am not ready to throw up my hands and give up on establishing a new Western Territory where all people can work together for the betterment of all. I believe that is going to take patience, I believe it is going to take mutual respect to do. I am also not foolish enough to think that if we adopt the recommendations in this Boundaries Commission report that it will not have an affect on all those things I just previously mentioned with aboriginal people. They are watching what we are doing as a territorial government, as a legislature and I think it will have a negative affect on that working relationship.
We always have to be cautious, as we move ahead, of how we can keep people talking, to talk about how we can best move ahead into the future. Can we best move ahead with 16 seats in this Legislative Assembly? Can we best move ahead with 20, 14? Who knows, in the end? Who knows what this central government is going to look like? Who knows what the responsibility of this central government will be, or MLAs, as far as that goes? Who knows what the workload will be for those MLAs? I do not think anybody has the capability here today to predict what that will be.
The aboriginal people out in the small communities, the aboriginal governments, they are going to express their inherent right of self-government one way or another, by working together or by working in a parallel system.
I think that the Boundaries Commission had a very difficult job to do. They had to travel to every constituency in the western Arctic to meet with the people. I notice from their report that they and I quote it: "the political landscape of the Western Territory is changing. It is not possible for us to predict exactly what changes will be made and we have not approached our task by trying to anticipate the structure of government that will eventually be in place. We interpreted our mandate to seek recommendations based on a structure of government as it now exists." As it now exists. I think we would all be fooling ourselves if we think that this same structure of government as it now exists will be in place five years from now. We all heard the people. We all represent people from the regions and it is very clear that five years from now you are not going to have the same structure of government. That will be negotiated at the negotiation tables and, hopefully, and I think I can safely say, that it will be a government that represents all the people. It will be a new structure of government that should lead this country. Just because the southern jurisdictions do things a certain way does not mean that we in the north have to follow suit.
We are unique. We are different. I agree that there are vast differences in numbers between Tu Nedhe and Mr. Henry's riding, which has 7,000 people. Tu Nedhe has 800 people, or something like that. Those are big numbers, but you can adjust the boundaries in Yellowknife alone and reduce those numbers. There is a big difference of trying to get a hold of government living even 100 miles from here than it is walking into this Assembly. You have the centre of government in Yellowknife. You have all the administrative deputy ministers, ADMS in Yellowknife. All the MLAs come here to meet in Yellowknife.
Chief Don Balsillie of Fort Resolution made a good point when he said to us in the Boundaries Commission hearing that in a couple of years when the smoke clears, we will all have a better idea of what the territorial government's responsibility will be. We cannot know whether it will only be a couple years, but we do think that the uncertainty is a good reason to be cautious in our approach.
I heard somebody say, I think it was Mr. Dent, let the people have their say. Well, the people have had their say from Tu Nedhe and they said, no more seats in Yellowknife. Maybe if you want to adjust the boundaries, that is fine, but no more seats in Yellowknife. I do not think the people of Tu Nedhe would have a problem with adjusting the Deh Cho and Hay River electoral districts. I do not think they will have a problem with that, but that is as far as it will go. If there are any motions to be coming forward, I will be voting against any motions to give Yellowknife any more seats. The people of Tu Nedhe have said that and that is how I will vote.
As far as the legal interpretations or opinions, I think you can get many different opinions from many different lawyers, with the greatest of respect to our law clerk. If it goes to a court challenge, that is where it goes. As an MLA for Tu Nedhe, I will not support two seats to Yellowknife. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 391
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Morin. I recognize Mr. Kakfwi, Member for Sahtu.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 391
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, I will be supporting the recommendations of the commission and the report that they have tabled with us.
--Applause
We had three independent people who were appointed by the legislature. We asked them to go on our behalf to undertake to speak to Members of the public, consult with our communities and to focus their time and their attention on this issue to advise us on it. We have some very credible, well-known, well respected people on this commission.
I believe that the report reflects their advice on the best way to balance the need for representation by population, regional representation, as well as respecting the cultural diversity and reflecting that in this legislature. I also know that one of the primary responsibilities I have as an elected Member of this legislature, elected by the public, is to ensure always that this institution functions in the best possible capacity. That is, I should not allow anything to happen that would compromise the ability of this institution to do its duties for the general public. That has been shared with my constituents since last spring. At the end of the day, whether this government, this central institution, this legislature is supported or disowned by the public, whether it be the aboriginal constituents or the general public; it should not be because we have deliberately done a disservice to ourselves and compromised the ability of this legislature to carry out the very functions that we asked people to elect us to carry out in the first place. I do not think that it is up to us to compromise that institution.
If you want a phrase, I would say that 14 is not enough. I think a minimum of 16 would help greatly to ensure that we continue to be able to see this institution work and carry out the functions that have been set out for it to do. We have all been elected to ensure that it does carry out those functions. A reduction of 24 to 14 is a drastic reduction, so when we say we should leave everything the way it is without change, there already has been a dramatic change that has happened. We have to accept the fact that it is a drastic change. What it does is, presently we have 24 Members, one of which is a Speaker, that allows 23. Eight are Ministers, allowing 15 Ordinary Members. What we will end up with if we leave things as they are with 14, is we will have one Speaker, six Cabinet Members and, therefore, only seven Ordinary Members. The Cabinet could be able to call a session of this Legislature with only one Ordinary Member agreeing. That is only one who would have to attend these sessions for us to carry on the business of this Legislature. That is a dramatic change in the nature, in the character of this institution. I also believe that the legal challenge is inevitable and it will cost us money. I also believe it is our duty to avoid settling issues in court, that is why we are here. Despised as we are as politicians, according to someone's survey, we are preferred in many ways to letting the courts decide issues. Our constituents and the general public look to us to make difficult decisions, take difficult positions. Nevertheless, meet their obligation to come up with some sort of agreement that will avoid having the legal system deal with issues that are our primary responsibility. Yellowknife has a huge population and I think we have an obligation to ensure that the makeup of this Legislature reflects that.
-- Applause
We also have a growing aboriginal population right here in this city. I am aware of that. I can see by the suggestions that at least one of the ridings recommended will be majority aboriginal, which would make it, if there is such a thing, an aboriginal constituency, so who would object to that?
The aboriginal leaders have said over the last few years that they will focus on community and regional institutions of government, that their primary focus over the next few years is to look at community and regional governments and see how those work. For the time being, this central institution will carry on. We have a duty to make sure that we do the best job possible for them, for everyone. We should not be disowned at the end because we have compromised our ability to do that job.
I believe that the aboriginal people will stay with public governments as long as those governments provide an adequate job, providing an adequate service for them. Just being under-represented alone will not alienate them, but what will alienate them more than anything is being marginalized economically. I believe as long as the aboriginal population is part of the economic growth of this part of the country and that they feel they are partners in the development, the number of people representing them directly or indirectly in this Legislature would not be that significant a concern. Having said that, I believe that the issue of the Cabinet makeup of the new government is equally important in that the aboriginal population in the regions would be served greatly by any agreement that we make here as Members about how the Cabinet will be made up. Is it going to be a free-for-all or are we going to ensure that the northern regions are represented in Cabinet, that Yellowknife is represented in Cabinet, that the other regions that are on Great Slave Lake will also be on Cabinet, but no one has really addressed that. It is something that we need to work on because I think it is equally important to the people out there in our communities. The number of Members in the Legislature alone is not the most important thing to them. At the end of the day, they will also find equal comfort in knowing that, no matter what happens, all regions will be adequately represented in a future Cabinet of this government.
Some of my constituents have said that perhaps there should be no change, but as I have said to them, I have said to you again, I do not believe that no change is an option at this time. I believe we are compelled by a number of factors to act and it is our duty to act. I must support an increase in representation for Yellowknife and I believe I do that and still keep it consistent with some basic objectives, that is, keep it small, keep the costs down, avoid a court challenge, show respect for the work of the commission and the recommendations to us and also reflect the significant population of Yellowknife in the future Western Territory. Thank you.
-- Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 392
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I do not have anybody else on my list here. I recognize Mr. Krutko, Member for Mackenzie Delta.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 392
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Coming from a small riding in the Mackenzie Delta where it consists of the three very diverse communities of Aklavik, Fort McPherson, and Tsiigehtchic, where one community is isolated and the other communities have some sort of access, but one thing that we do not realize is what has happened to the rural communities in the north as we know them. A lot of these communities were developed during the time of the fur trader. A lot of them are traditionally aboriginal communities.
One thing that you see happening, especially in this government, and the fear that I have changing the structure of government and allowing more seats to Yellowknife is exactly what I see happening in this House in the last three years, where a lot of times, a lot of issues that I have raised, especially in my constituency which consists of a lot of small communities, the people cannot associate with the social and economic problems that we have in our communities. Coming from a large centre and large communities, you do not realize that what you have in programs and services where you can go down the street, pick up the phone, make an appointment at the doctor's office or walk into a hospital, have access to doctors, lawyers, the Supreme Court, any person in a department. Yet for us, in some cases, you have to wait two, three months to see an eye specialist. A doctor may come to your community twice a month if you are lucky to see him while he is there, which is usually one day. If you do not get in that one day, you wait for the next time he comes through. You have to grow up in a small community to realize what you really do not have when you come to Yellowknife.
My biggest fear with what is in the Boundaries Commission Report is the inequity that is going to take place from rural ridings to the restructuring of the political makeup of the new Western Territory.
A lot of times in this House I make motions, I look for support from Members in this House. With a lot of my colleagues leaving from the east, where the majority of the support that I get from this House comes from this side of the House. A lot of times, that side of the House does not have a worry or concern of the social impacts that we face in our small communities because they do not have it here.
There have been a lot of economic booms going on around Yellowknife, with the diamond industry, yet the oil and gas industry in the riding that I represent in the Beaufort Delta was at one time a thriving industry which had world potential for oil and gas, yet nothing has ever been said in this House to develop that economy and also where the aboriginal people in that region want to go.
In the Beaufort Delta, self-government process there is a real, I hate to say this, but the disparity between regions and ridings when it comes to economic opportunities. One thing that a lot of aboriginal groups see by way of negotiating land claims and self-government agreements that it is a way to get away from government and go it on their own. The sad thing to say about this is it has already happened and occurred to our neighbours to the west, in regard to aboriginal groups negotiating self-government agreements and running programs and services on their own.
With the disparity that we see in the west, especially coming from aboriginal communities, that will continue. With the makeup of the House just looking as it sits now, if you took a vote today, there would only be two Members on this side of the House representing small ridings, which would be Mr. Rabesca and myself. Yet in the past, I had five other Members on this side who I could depend on because of the rural concerns. I think that was something that was missed by this commission. This commission only looked at one aspect and that was population. It did not look at the diversity of cultures, inequity in regard to access to government. Also, the process that is in place for self-government negotiations to be able to establish programs and services and have the right to run those programs and services by yourself.
I think the aboriginal groups that have been involved in the Constitutional process have come to a point of not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel to say there is a possibility of us working together and striving for a better Western Territory, yet everything around that process is collapsing because people take it into consideration to let us look at the other option that we have, and that is negotiating directly with Ottawa, for the same programs and services that this Legislature will have the funds from the federal government for. Those dollars that we think we have control of now will sooner or later be controlled by aboriginal governments. It is a serious point and I think people have to realize that we are taking something for granted that was not really recognized by the people in Yukon. I believe we, in the Western Territory, will be stuck in the same dilemma. It may not happen in the next five years, it may happen in the next ten years, but eventually it will happen.
Another point I would like to make is regarding something someone mentioned about how much Yellowknife puts into the western economy. How much money is generated by taxes? How much money has Yellowknife put in by way of jobs? People forget history. The Beaufort Sea in the 1970s and 1980s as well as in the early 1960s was the only economic boom in this territory. A lot of resources and revenues went into building Yellowknife because of that activity in the Beaufort Delta. The thing that I feel despair now about is how we can sit here and argue about court cases and being fair and everything else, yet when it comes to economic opportunities and the social well-being of people, service delivery in our small communities, in some ways you can look at it as what you see in Third World countries. It has come to being a point that it is getting worse then getting better.
In Yellowknife you have paved streets, general hospitals, government buildings, major economic base, do not forget Wal-Mart. When you pay 90 cents for a litre of gas and pay almost $2.50 for a litre of milk, you have to start realizing the cost to access government is not that cheap. Myself, I represent three distinct communities, I represent three distinct governments and two unique aboriginal groups. Somehow you have to try to balance that off by yourself. In issues you relate in this House, they do not have access to walk into a Minister's office, if you are lucky, you can fly down here for $1,200 and go see a Minister, but that is what the cost of access is. That is something that the Boundaries Commission was also supposed to look at. The access in regard to remote communities. If you took the map and chopped it in half, over 50 percent of the new Western Territories will consist of the Sahtu and the Beaufort Delta, in which we have four seats. Is that fair? That is bigger than some countries. Yet you have 10,000 people for four seats. I think that you talk about fairness, equitable distribution and the threat for court action, I say go for it, that is what they are there for. You do not like what they decide, let us take it to the Supreme Court. Maybe by that time aboriginal groups will have self-government agreements and they will also demand in the Supreme Court that they would also like to guarantee to have the government for themselves.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 393
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I do not have any more names on the list. I suggest we take a five-minute break and then we either deal with more statements or comments. Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 393
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have heard many comments yesterday and today. We have heard that this is not a singular event debate on the Electoral Boundaries Commission Report that is an ongoing process. Indeed, Mr. Chairman, we started out by selecting a commission who the people seated here debating the virtues of the report, are the same people who thought were the best people to sit on that commission. We value their judgement that they are wise enough to be chosen to this commission. I made a representation to the commission, I said that the Yellowknife North riding should be the smallest riding in the Yellowknife area. I also said that there should be at least 17 seats in the House. Mr. Dent has already indicated that it would be very difficult to function with only 14 seats, I had indicated that as well. I will not go into that now.
Mr. Chairman, I wanted to indicate that the report came back and the main recommendation was that there should be two seats for the Yellowknife area. There was differing opinion on the sizes of the constituencies, but the main recommendation was that there should be two more seats. We are now hearing in this House that there should be, from some Members, that there should be no more seats for the Yellowknife area. Mr. Chairman, why is it that when people are chosen to sit on a commission, they are the wisest people and the best people to sit on that commission, but when the report comes back and is against a person's personal bias, those people are no longer the wisest people or best people for that commission. We throw that report out the window.
Mr. Chairman, yesterday, the Member for Yellowknife South indicated that in the Saskatchewan Electoral Boundaries Report, Madame Justice MacLaughlin had indicated that court should only interfere if a reasonable person who would not have set electoral boundaries as they exist. I would just like to look at a couple of current constituencies. The constituency of Nahendeh has 2,132 people. It has six communities. Two of them are accessible by road and four of them only by plane. The constituency of Tu Nedhe has 842 people. It only has two communities and they are accessible only by plane. Now what reasonable person would agree that this is fair or that each of the 7,000 constituents living in Yellowknife South has the same influence over government as each of the 842 people living in Tu Nedhe?
Yesterday, the law clerk indicated that if there is a court challenge, not only the Yellowknife ridings would be looked at. They would also look at all of the other constituencies and at the abnormalities. They would wonder why Tu Nedhe is so small in comparison to Nahendeh, which has many more communities. This Legislature would have to address each riding and rationalize why some are so small. Mr. Chairman, we are not asking to put Tu Nedhe together with Deh Cho to make a constituency that is still less than one third the size of the Yellowknife South riding. However, if we do go to court this might happen.
Mr. Chairman, we have heard that the Aboriginal Summit has recommended to us, in fact demanded, that there be no Boundaries Commission. Wait for self-government. Mr. Chairman, two communities that I represent, N'dilo and Detah, are part of the Aboriginal Summit. The people in Mr. Steen's area are Inuvialuit. They are part of the Aboriginal Summit. Both these areas asked for better representation. They wanted seats.
Another thing is that we do not know how long we have to wait for self-government. We have heard today that it could be ten years. If we look at the land claims process that has been going for over 25 years, I think that ten years might be a conservative estimate. We have also heard in this House that through the self-government negotiations, we are going to be devolving things like programs and services, huge amounts of money to the aboriginal governments. We have heard that we cannot predict what government will look like once those negotiations are finished. Mr. Chairman, one thing we can predict, we devolve all that money, all those programs and services and power to the aboriginal governments, this House, this government will not be as powerful as it is today. We can also predict that the communities and the aboriginal governments will be much more powerful. That means that we will have to consider that the communities will have additional representation outside of this House. In fact, we have to consider that the aboriginal governments may be just as powerful, and perhaps more powerful, than this House once those negotiations are completed.
Why are some Members afraid to give the Yellowknife area more seats in such a diluted government? Why are they afraid to follow more closely the democratic principle of equitable representation. Mr. Chairman, I ask the Members of this House to agree with the general principles that were enunciated in the commission's report and that is to give two additional seats to the Yellowknife area. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 394
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 394
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on the Electoral Boundaries Commission Report of 1998, I just would like to say that in the north here we are going through a very challenging time. Division and all of the different initiatives that are going on, particularly in the aboriginal communities where there are land claims and self-government negotiations going on, the political landscape here in the Western Territories is very fluid. We do not really know where it is going to end at the end of the day. With this electoral boundaries it is certainly going to have an effect on the whole political landscape. I would like to first of all thank the three members of the commission for the work that they have put into producing this report and for the recommendations that have come forward.
Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, originally when we have talked about this in the last few years in the Western Caucus, we were just going to keep it at 14 seats at one point in time. I think there was general agreement at one point in time to keep it at that number. A Member from Inuvik had initiated this whole process to see what will happen and we are in the process of determining what is going to happen. My initial reaction was that we thought we had an agreement to keep it at 14 but if there is an opportunity to make a presentation on behalf of the Nahendeh constituency where I represent the most communities of six. Even though I think I am doing a good job it still is a very difficult process to try to go into the communities and keep in touch and try to get their concerns and try to address them.
It is very difficult today, for example, Mr. Chairman, the ability for any of my constituency to be in the gallery as a good example to hear this important debate. It is very difficult because it is freezing time, the ice is not forming on the Liard River, it is very difficult to travel with the fog, the snow and the freezing rain. It is very difficult to even charter at this time of the year. Just that alone is an indication that there are differences throughout the north. Every community is different from each other. Some are small and some are large but all of the concerns are real.
We, as Members of the Legislative Assembly, it is our task to try to deal with these issues. Based on those kind of arguments I made a presentation to this commission that the constituency of Nahanni Butte, Trout Lake, Jean Marie River, Wrigley, Fort Simpson and Fort Liard, should have an additional seat if Yellowknife is going to get one. I thought one of the objectives of this commission was to balance the rural and urban areas. It says here that the commission should strive to maintain a balance between the urban and rural population and take into the consideration the culture and linguistic interests of the territories. I do not think they addressed that particular issue, Mr. Chairman. In their report, they say that even though they have heard other people in the other parts of the Western Territories asking for additional seats they say that, I quote: "We have resisted a broad approach and have decided to recommend minimal change at this time."
They go through examples that of political history here in the Northwest Territories is unique, and requires that we be conscious of the struggles of Northerners for responsible government as well as the desire and right of aboriginal people to attain and play a meaningful role in the Legislative Assembly.
Although the commission had tried to do its best they did not really concentrate on one of the key areas of the task that they had to undertake in maintaining a balance between the urban and the rural. They have decided to recommend two additional seats for Yellowknife and there are no other seats going to be issued to any other small communities in the North. I guess one of the Members was talking about, why are people talking about not giving seats to Yellowknife? My view on that is that it all boils down to power, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is the power of the ability. The more seats you have in one constituency in one community in this Legislative Assembly, then you have more power to influence the decision of this government. Once this whole Legislative Assembly is shrunken down to 14 after division, and then if we add two more seats to Yellowknife, that is going to really throw the balance of power off to the community of Yellowknife.
As you can tell from people in the north and representation of most of the MLAs who are representing their communities here, Yellowknife does not have a very good name in the rest of the Northwest Territories and will continue to do so in the future. This is no slight on the people that come from Yellowknife, but it is a fact. It is our capital of the Northwest Territories and will continue to be the capital of the Western Territories and we should be proud of the fact that it is our capital. I do not think that there is that much pride in this community being our capital and I have expressed my opinion to members of this city council on different occasions that there should be an effort by the city to promote Yellowknife as the capital for all the north and not only turn its own attention to the interest of only Yellowknife. This is the capital of the Northwest Territories and I think there is a general feeling here as expressed by some of the other MLAs that generally there seems to be special treatment here that goes to Yellowknife. They are a strong government centre as well as the industry hub for the north and we have here as a government and this Legislative Assembly, been able to accommodate Yellowknife.
Maybe because of the newspaper that has the monopoly in the north, is centred here and dedicates one of its papers solely to Yellowknife that all of the focus is here. There are other things going on in the other communities but there is not much attention or not much financial help going over to the communities and it is out there in the public. There is a strong resentment out in the communities towards Yellowknife because of that.
Due to our Legislative Assembly being here and the access to the politicians and the senior bureaucrats are there, some Members say that that is irrelevant, decisions are not made that way, but there is strong influence. Whenever you talk to somebody as a Member of the Legislative Assembly, a politician, you take their word and it influences you somehow or another. The daily access to the MLAs is a strong factor. In this whole discussion here, I had to phone my own communities to try to get some feedback and it is not as good as a face-to-face meeting.
Based on that I would like to recommend that we take the existing population of Yellowknife and divide it up into the four existing constituencies to knock it down to 4,000 and something, and that would be pretty close to the biggest number in other communities. With that, I will not be supporting these recommendations, but we should look at it closely in the near future in the new government. Thank you.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 395
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Antoine. General Comments. Mr. Rabesca.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 395
James Rabesca North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a short comment on the commission report. Mr. Chairman we have read this report with great interest. Some of us felt disappointed in the fact that our requests are not considered at this time. We also feel disappointed that the report made reference to the presentation that the Mayor and the Chief of Rae-Edzo did during the consultation process of the Boundaries Commission. As I am sure everyone read, my community and regions are supporting the idea of having one more MLA for Rae-Edzo itself, and one for three outlying communities. I believe this is a very good option due to a number of factors.
Firstly, the population of Rae-Edzo is approximately 1,662, which makes the community the fifth largest community in the western Arctic. The differences of community development between Rae-Edzo and the outlying communities are vast. Rae-Edzo currently has a fairly good infrastructure with basic upgrades to the overall system being required while the other communities are in their early stages of development. The needs of the people in Rae-Edzo compared to other communities are very different. Over the course of this Assembly and during my predecessor's term in office, many times there has been conflict between lobbying for something that is needed in Rae-Edzo and at the same time lobbying for something needed in the communities. When only limited dollars are available for one project, I then must make a decision as to which community should get what they are after.
It makes it unfair for MLAs to ensure all the residents are treated equally and fairly. I believe that Rae-Edzo is large enough to require its own MLA and over the next few years can see Rae-Edzo expanding considerably. In Yellowknife we do not have one Member lobbying, representing his or her own constituency in their ridings but rather have four MLAs represent the whole Yellowknife. With this in mind, I support an addition of two more seats to be distributed outside of the Yellowknife area.
I would like to comment that this has been a difficult job for the commission and would like to congratulate the commission for the hard work and time that they have put into this document. It is a very hard thing to decide what region should or should not get an extra seat. In closing, I would like to thank the commission for the good job they have done, but not too satisfactory a structure to some of us. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
--Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all I just wanted to apologize for being late today. I was going to drive back from Hay River and be here on time but we had a rather blustery snow storm. I held off, so I do apologize for my lateness and my attire. Mr. Chairman, with respect to the Electoral Boundaries Commission Report, I think that there has been some confusion surrounding this report in that different areas in the north seem to be answering different questions. I believe when the commission came to Hay River the message was very clear from Hay River, that they wanted to see the number of MLAs remain at 14 until after division and until after the issue surrounding the western constitution and governance had been determined, then look at the issue of the number of Members. Hay River took a fairly strong position that we should remain at 14 Members, until those other things are determined.
The second question is, if it were determined there was a need for an increase in the number of seats then certainly a number of communities would have been looked at in that light, including Yellowknife and Hay River. As the commission report stands right now, if it were adopted they way it is, it would see Hay River as being quite disproportionately under represented with only one Member. I am trying to break this out and trying to convey there are actually two questions here.
On the first question of the number of MLAs, it is my position, and that of most of the people I have talked to in my riding, this is premature, to look at increasing the number of MLAs until after these other issues of governance and constitution have been thoroughly addressed and determined. With that, Mr. Chairman, those are my remarks and I will not be supporting the Electoral Boundaries Commission Report. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Any further general comments from the membership? General comments. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If there are no further general comments, I would like to make a motion.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. There has been no indication from Members wishing to make further general comments. Proceed with your motion please, Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the current electoral districts of Yellowknife North, Yellowknife Centre, Yellowknife Frame Lake and Yellowknife South be redrawn to create six electoral districts as outlined on the appendixed map.
And further, that the electoral districts be named Range Lake, Kam Lake, Frame Lake, Great Slave, Yellowknife Centre and Weledeh. Mr. Chairman, I believe the Clerk is handing the motion around.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion in written form is being distributed to Members. Thank you. The motion has been distributed to Members and the motion is in order. To the motion. Does anyone wishes to speak to the motion? Motion. Yes, Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 396
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will say a few words and perhaps other Members would like to comment as well. On this motion, I would like to remind Members and would appeal to them about the commission's report. I think we have to remember that it was ten Members who voted to set up the commission. While it may not have addressed to the satisfaction of some of those Members for their particular constituencies, I think we do need to make note of the fact that the membership of this commission, which was a Supreme Court justice, as Mr. Steen so well put. I think he did make reference to the fact that we should not take this lightly. It was a Supreme Court justice who was the chair of this and made a recommendation. I am sure she would have considered all situations that could impact upon her decision.
Also there was the former government leader on this commission, who is a lawyer and he is from Fort Simpson, and certainly represents very well the viewpoints of his people. There is a Member from Tuktoyaktuk. She also represents very well the viewpoint, the needs and desires of her people. It was a unanimous recommendation to add two seats to the City of Yellowknife. It was a recommendation that considered the issue of voter parity in our community. That particular recommendation would restore the equality of representation. It would restore voter parity to a great degree. I would remind Members, Yellowknife has grown substantially over the years. While arguments can be made that, what is the difference of having four Members? Well, four Members were established years ago.
I would also remind Members about, and it is a critical issue to me, the ability of us, as Ordinary Members, to be able to function as a government. We cannot function with seven Members. I want to remind Members of that and would appeal to you to understand that. It is easy to sit here today, but one year from now, believe me, for those of us who may be fortunate to be returned, if you so desired, we will tear our hair out trying to make this government accountable. We will tear our hair out trying to run committees. There are a number of committees this government has. You cannot operate each committee with two or three Members. There is sickness involved, Members who may have to be away during House sessions or committee meetings. It is impossible to meet. I would appeal to Members now, to vote in the right way. I think it is critically important to us to do that. Please, do not throw this out. I think it is a good recommendation and we may have some difficulties if we do not proceed with it. Thank you.
--Hear, Hear
--Applause
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
The Chair John Ningark
To the motion. Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it has been an interesting debate this afternoon. We have heard from a number of people that constitutional development will continue. There is no question. I said that myself. I do not think it is right to expect the public government to stand still without knowing how long that is going to take. It does not necessarily affect the end result if the numbers of MLAs change in terms of who has what jurisdiction and how the systems work.
As far as I am concerned, Mr. Chairman, we definitely need more than 14 seats to make this House work properly. Sixteen is not as many as I would like to see, but I recognize we have to respect the work of the Boundaries Commission and what they heard from the public in their travels across the north and I think we have to reflect that in the decisions we make in this House.
Mr. Chairman, I understand the frustrations expressed by Members about the disparity of economic opportunity across our regions. I understand the frustrations Members have expressed about the ease of access to government. I think we have to, as a government, try and address those situations as much as we can. We have to try and improve the situation. But we have to say again, Mr. Chairman, that the laws of Canada also say we must respect the rights of the individual as guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
As legislators, we have a responsibility to live up to the expectation of the public that we will respect the laws of Canada. The laws of Canada do allow for some variation in constituencies to reflect geography, community history, community interests and minority representation. Our current makeup of constituencies does reflect these differences. In fact, Mr. Chairman, these differences will still be reflected and respected, even with six seats in Yellowknife as recommended. I would point to Tu Nedhe and Deh Cho as still there and not being challenged. I think there is a recognition that geography, difficulty of access, does play a role.
To protect the diversity we now have, and the right of the smaller constituencies to exist, we have to support the recommendations of this commission. Mr. Chairman, I will be supporting this motion and would urge other Members to do so. Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time, I would request you would have a recorded vote, please.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your request is noted. Mr. Henry. To the motion.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Roland, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Steen, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Morin, Mr. Kakfwi and Mr. Antoine. I ask you to do the right and just thing. Vote in favour of Mr. Ootes' motion. As hard as that may be for you, you must do it. When you go home to your own community and your constituents ask you, why did you support the motion? You can tell your constituents, I did nothing more for the residents of Yellowknife than I would do for my own constituency. Tell your constituents, the guiding light and principle from which we all draw our strength collectively, is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Tell your constituents, this document gives each of us the right to know we are all equal. Tell your constituents, that we legislators voting in favour of the motion to give two more seats to Yellowknife is protected and enshrined, your right, the right to equality. To have equality, you have to give equality.
Tell your constituents the process was fair. Tell your constituents we had some of the brightest residents above reproach from the Northwest Territories sit on the Boundaries Commission. They came up with recommendations for two more seats to a constituency. We had a judge for the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories. We had a well respected government leader from a previous government. We had a member at large from the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation and a member of that community. I would point out two outstanding ladies and one outstanding gentleman. Tell your constituents we did not have a choice. Tell them we voted in favour of establishing a commission. We put it in place with the best people we could find. Their recommendations are fair and just. That is why we voted in favour of the motion. I will be supporting the motion, Mr. Chairman, and I would encourage all Members of this House to do the same. Thank you, sir.
--Applause
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 397
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not be supporting this motion. Though I would like to thank Mr. Henry for the marching orders he has given us in what to tell our constituents and how to think on this particular issue. I believe we do have a choice. We always have a choice. This is a political arena. It is not a question of right or wrong. It is what is going to be at the end of the day. What this body thinks is in the best interests of the Northwest Territories. Will the government stand still after division? Regardless of the number of MLAs, this government will not stand still. We are
going to be on our own for the first time as a Western Territory and we will evolve. Be it with 14 or 16. I think we create bogeyman out there by all the doom and gloom that is going to happen with 14 Members. I am confident we can make the adjustments necessary to run with 14.
As my colleague, Mr. Kakfwi, indicated, our job is to make tough political decisions. Mr. Henry has made it somewhat of a practice to keep telling us what is good for Yellowknife is good for everybody else. Sometimes I do not always think that is the case. In this case I think a strong Northwest Territories is good for Yellowknife. I will not be supporting this motion and I would trust my colleagues will make the right decision as well, so when we go back to our constituents we can look them in the eye and tell them we made the decision we made because we are in touch with our constituents and not because we were instructed to do so by the Member from Yellowknife South. Thank you.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have the honourable Member for Inuvik, then the honourable Member for Hay River. Mr. Roland. To the motion.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Floyd Roland Inuvik
I will not be supporting the motion. Originally I was not going to make a response to this, but since a number of Members have pointed out, as I did as well when I made my first general comments, that I moved the motion to establish the Boundaries Commission. I figure some clarification there, along with why in some cases some people would says that I have put on a different coat today. I look it as the reason for the commission was to hear from the people. I believe if you look at every community that the commission went to visit, a large number of people came out and said, enough government. I am elected by people in Inuvik. I represent them here. When I go into a committee meeting, I am one. While other people in committees of this government influence the direction of government in Cabinet, there are four. That tells me right there the ability to influence. Based on that, Mr. Chairman, and based on what the people of my community, the majority of people have said, I cannot support this motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have the honourable Member for Hay River, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, let me say what a wonderful community I think Yellowknife is and what a wonderful input and contribution the four Members from Yellowknife do make to this Legislature. I want to say that I respect that input very much and I appreciate working with them. However, at a time when it is decided by the majority of the people in the Northwest Territories that more Members are needed to be elected to this legislature and it is determined what number that will be and how that will be evenly distributed amongst the population, I am certain I will have no trouble supporting two more Members for the City of Yellowknife. However, as a Member representing Hay River and I look at this report and I see that the percentage variance from average of Hay River, with Enterprise removed, is still at plus 46 percent, I cannot in good conscience support putting that kind of disproportionate representation to my own community in favour of Yellowknife.
However, if in the future, as I said before, when some of the constitutional and governance issues are established and it is determined that we do need more than 14 MLAs in this Legislature, I will be all for supporting Yellowknife's equal and fair representation in this legislature with additional Members at that time, if so determined. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will not be supporting this motion. I had a constituency meeting on Tuesday night in Fort Simpson. I polled all my communities. I laid down what the recommendations were. I did not give anybody any marching orders. I just laid out what the arguments were. In representing my constituency from this distance, not having the ability to go face-to-face with all of them, based on that I cannot support this motion at this time. Thank you.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Any further comments to the motion? Question has been called. Honourable Member, Mr. Dent, has requested a recorded vote, so it shall be a recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte
Mr. Ootes, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Henry, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent and Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. All those opposed, please stand.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte
Mr. Antoine, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. All those abstaining, please stand.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte
Mr. Ng, Mr. Picco and Mr. O'Brien.
Committee Motion 7-13(6): Motion To Create Six Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I will read the recorded vote. For, six. Against, seven. Abstentions, three. The motion is defeated, therefore, I recognize Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 398
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Recognizing that that motion has failed, I would like to move that the current electoral districts of Yellowknife North, Yellowknife Centre, Yellowknife Frame Lake and Yellowknife South be redrawn to create five electoral districts as outlined on the appendixed map.
Further, that the electoral districts be named Range Lake, Kam Lake, Frame Lake, Yellowknife Centre and Weledeh.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
The motion is being distributed to Members of the committee. I believe the honourable colleagues have a copy of the motion. The motion is in order. Mr. Dent, to the motion.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I regret that we have to come forward with this motion, but I think recognizing that the previous motion failed, it is still essential that we address the overall size of the constituencies in Yellowknife. I do not believe that redrawing them into four constituencies will adequately serve the residents in attaining relative parity in voting power. In fact, I doubt that five does either, but I must say that it will at least make some move to address the inequity and I would hope that Members will agree to support this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not go into all the reasons why we need more representation for the Yellowknife area as that has been very well spoken to prior to this, but I wanted to indicate similarly to Mr. Dent that, while I am disappointed that the Members here did not agree that the Yellowknife area needed two additional seats, I too feel that even one more seat would make the distribution of the population in Yellowknife and the Yellowknife area a lot more equitable. While they would still be considerably larger than the vast majority of the rest of the constituencies in the western Arctic, that this is much more desirable than receiving those seats. For that reason, I would ask the Members here to vote in favour of this motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is defeated. Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, I would like to move a motion, please. Copies are available, I think from the Clerks.
Committee Motion 8-13(6): Motion To Create Five Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Please proceed with your motion.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the current electoral districts of Yellowknife North, Yellowknife Centre, Yellowknife Frame Lake and Yellowknife South be redrawn to create four electoral districts as outlined on the appendixed map. Further, that the electoral districts be named Range Lake, Kam Lake, Yellowknife Centre and Weledeh.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Your motion is in order. The written form of the motion is being distributed, so we will pause momentarily. The motion is in order. I would like to recognize the mover of the motion, Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to indicate that this will make the four electoral districts in Yellowknife of a comparable size. It will get away from one riding of 7,000 and one of just 2,000. It is a stop-gap measure, I recognize that, but I think given all the circumstances I can definitely live with that. I would also ask for a recorded vote.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Your request for recorded vote is noted. I have Mr. Kakfwi to the motion.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would hope that if this Legislature ever wanted to redraw the boundaries of my constituency, they would at least give me the courtesy of asking what I thought of it in the first place.
--Applause
I find it a bit offensive that somebody outside of these constituencies would take the prerogative to move a motion like this. I find it a bit offensive, I would say, to entertain this motion. I thought the sentiment being expressed by all speakers against any type of change was exactly that. Why is this motion being placed in front of us at this time? I would say it is not in keeping with the sentiments expressed by the speakers that were against any type of additional seats for Yellowknife this afternoon. I will not be in support, at all, of this motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. To the motion, Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will repeat again, in case some Members have a problem in hearing, that earlier today I had said, when I was speaking to the motion, I would support the redrafting of Yellowknife's constituency boundaries to better reflect an even number throughout the city, exactly what the Member from Thebacha had said. That seems to be a concern for Yellowknife, we have heard it before, so we will assist them in equalizing those seats and making the numbers more equal within the city of Yellowknife. I will be supporting this motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Frankly, I must echo Mr. Kakfwi's sentiments. I am rather insulted by this move by people from outside of the Yellowknife constituencies to tell us how we are to reconstitute our four constituencies here in Yellowknife. For one thing, this document does not indicate how the population will be redistributed. We do not know what we are looking at, we do not know what we are voting on. Neither does anybody here. I would expect that if things were to remain the same, then the Members, at least, would have the common decency to let the four Yellowknife MLAs decide how the Yellowknife constituencies would be redistributed. I cannot vote in favour of this motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 399
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is the first time I have seen this map which purports to divide Yellowknife into four different constituencies.
I cannot support this. I would need some time to examine the census maps and the population. I believe that this motion is not timely right now. The Yellowknife Members should have an opportunity to consult with their constituents and to take a look at the census maps and ourselves come back with a plan for redistributing, if there is to be one. I would ask Members to respect our constituents and vote in opposition to this motion, please. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Dent. I have Mr. Krutko, Mr. Ootes, and Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too, stated in my statement that there should be an easier way to resolve this argument of challenge in the courts about population distribution and also the whole comment that there are 7,000 people in one riding. I think, to be fair to other ridings and communities, in the case of my region in Inuvik where it has over 3,000 members, in Hay River, and the other ridings which are similar in size. I think, considering we have heard the biggest argument of all, with the whole question about population, an old question to diversity access. I believe this is the fairest way of dealing with the argument, by threats of court action, going to the Supreme Court, or wherever, based on the population argument, this is one way to deal with that matter in a fair way, by allocating the riding that has the 7,000 members and distributing the other ridings so that they are more in line with the other large centres, such as Inuvik for instance. I will be supporting this motion.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
I would like to remind all Members to keep their views to the content of the motion, please. I have Mr. Ootes and Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the motion, this is the first time I have seen this particular map as it is being proposed. I do not think it is fair to put that before this Assembly at this particular time. I am astounded that this would be brought forward in this fashion, without consultation of the Yellowknife Members. I think it is inconsiderate and I believe that we can work better in this Assembly than to shove these types of things in front of each other on a surprise basis. I believe that Members, hopefully, will use their better judgement and turn this motion down. It deserves to be turned down and I will certainly be voting against it. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have the Member for Hay River, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the surprise element of this redrawing of the Yellowknife electoral districts, I want to say that I have the same feeling about the previous motion with respect to the five seats for Yellowknife, in that I do not believe it was one that was shared with anyone either, prior to it coming to the House right here and now. That is a motion that I would like to have had a chance to give more consideration to. I did check with my colleagues here to see if it was the fact that it was not in the House, in fact, this was not shared with anybody in advance. This is something that I think could have used some discussion and it is something that, in looking at the numbers, I think there could have been merit in supporting. However, that is not the motion we are on now, we are on this new motion.
I agree that it would be not respectful to have the majority of Members of this House today voting on a motion to redraw the Yellowknife constituencies without having had some prior discussion with the Members to see how they would feel about it. It is their riding. They would know best. On the element of the surprise issue, let me say, I think it would have stood a few people in better stead today to have seen this motion on the five Members prior to this instant. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe I have similar concerns that Mr. Kakfwi expressed very adequately. I note that I have the biggest riding in the territories, and I wonder, too, where to draw the line. I will not be supporting this motion either. I think Yellowknife MLAs, if not, in fact, the public as well, should have some consultation and some input as to where the lines will be drawn. I think that is only fair. I will not be supporting this motion.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. I will recognize Members who have not spoken to this motion at this time. Mr. Henry.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I expect this type of consideration by the Member. It falls very much in line with his attacks through the debate earlier on. What I do not expect, and I expect a lot better, is of our Premier of the NWT, to make a statement to the effect of, divide the constituency of Yellowknife into 4,000 parcels and still my constituency of Nahendeh will represent four to one votes, even at that Tu Nedhe, I beg your pardon, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that attitude is not reflective of a leader. Mr. Speaker, I will be voting ...
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Excuse me. Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a point of order. The Member, Mr. Henry, referred to me as the Premier of the Northwest Territories and everybody fully realized when we came into this debate that we would be representing our constituencies. Mr. Kakfwi did not speak as a Minister of RWED. Mr. Antoine did not speak as the Minister of Transportation, Aboriginal Affairs, DPW. Mr. Dent did not speak as the Minister of Education and I did not speak as the Premier of the Northwest Territories. I was speaking to these motions in this debate as the MLA for Tu Nedhe. I would like the Member to withdraw his remarks and apologize. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 400
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I am advised by counsel that the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe does not have a point of order. Thank you. Mr. Henry, you were speaking, I believe, when the point of order was raised. Mr. Henry, you still have the floor.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I had finished but I would point out that the Premier is supposed to be the balance in this legislature and to see all sides of it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, please stay to the motion. Is there any Member that has not spoken yet who wishes to speak to the motion at this time? Yes, Mr. Antoine, you have not spoken to the motion. Therefore I recognize Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, speaking as an MLA for Nahendeh, and speaking to the motion here, these sort of discussions, were kind of worked out in the past in the Western Caucus, but it was agreed on by everyone from the Western Caucus that we would have an open debate on this on the floor of the House.
As a result, that is how I took this motion, as well as the previous one, where the Member for Yellowknife, Mr. Dent, has put this motion of creating five electoral districts on the floor. I was not aware this was going to happen and I was not aware about this one here of dividing actually on a map the four existing electoral districts. Although I did say in my comment, Mr. Chair, that I would prefer that instead of supporting the two extra seats in Yellowknife that we re-look at the electoral districts in Yellowknife and divide the population into four equal areas, I think there are about 17,000 people, and divide it that way. I did make that comment in my general comments in the debate, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Committee Motion 9-13(6): Motion To Create Four Electoral Districts For The City Of Yellowknife
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Before I recognize another speaker, I would like to recognize the Chairman of the Ordinary Members Caucus. I am advised to recognize Mr. Roland because he has not spoken to this motion yet. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that in accordance with rule 6(2) that the sitting hours be extended to conclude the matter under discussion.
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The motion is in order and it is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. We shall sit until the matter at hand is concluded. To the motion. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Yes, proceed with the amendment to the motion, Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My amendment would be, I move that the current electoral districts of Yellowknife North, Yellowknife Centre, Yellowknife Frame Lake and Yellowknife South be redrawn to create four electoral districts in consultation with the Members from Yellowknife. Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
We have to get your motion typed up and we shall take a few minutes break until the motion is typed and distributed. Thank you.
--Break
Committee Motion 10-13(6): Extended Sitting Hours
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I would like to call the committee back to order. We have an amendment to the motion by Mr. Roland and it is ready. It is in order. Mr. Roland, please.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that committee of the whole motion 9-13(6) be amended by deleting all the words that follow:
"redrawn to create four electoral districts,"
and substituting the following:
"in consultation with the four Yellowknife MLAs,"
and, Mr. Chairman, I would ask that it be a recorded vote.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Your request for a recorded vote is noted. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I find the amendment and the motion itself particularly unusual. I am surprised we are not considering other motions. Why do we not divide Mr. Steen's constituency, as has been discussed? Why do we not consider Mr. Antoine's constituency, as was discussed, requested and commented upon? No, we have to address it on Yellowknife. Yellowknifers have not had a chance to deal with this situation. We as Yellowknife representatives have not had a chance to deal with this situation. To bring forward a motion and then an amended motion, what is this? In reality, what is this? I am not here to deal with the other constituencies and to suggest how they should be redrawn. I am not doing that at all. I think it is very unfair and very unusual in my mind. Thank you. I will be voting against the amendment. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 401
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The debate has been, do we stick with 14 and four in Yellowknife or do we have some other arrangement, five or six seats in Yellowknife. Obviously, the debate has come down to that we are going to go, it would appear, with an amended motion. If it gets supported we are going to keep four in Yellowknife. Very clearly there are disparities, even within Yellowknife with one riding of 7,000 or so and one riding in the neighbourhood of 3,000. I acknowledge the fact that I should have, in hindsight, had that in the initial motion. I did not do that to offend the sensibilities of my colleagues who are voting against this particular issue. However, this is an attempt to involve the Yellowknife MLAs to try and bring a comparability within the constituencies in Yellowknife. That is the intent. To me, it is
very clear that we should be sticking with 14 and that means four in Yellowknife. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have Mr. Henry. To the motion.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will not go around the mulberry bush again. I think we have all been around that already today. I will be voting against this amendment and also against the motion. What some constituents of the Northwest Territories asked for, was voting parity, guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Neither this amendment, nor the motion, gives voter parity to some of the constituencies of the Northwest Territories, so I will be voting against both the amendment and the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
To the motion. Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is in line with what I was making my general comments to during the debate and I did suggest that we look at the four constituencies in Yellowknife. I know the Yellowknife MLAs make it a very strong argument that there is voter disparity and we have defeated the motion for six and then five, now we are stuck with four. We still have four and to try to comply with the argument that there is still a high number in one of the constituencies. If we redraw this it will spread out the numbers a little more.
Again, we all agreed to debate this on the floor of the House, so even though there were some surprises today, I expected it in this kind of a heated debate on very strong cases on both sides. I do not see it as being unfair, wrong or anything. I think we are debating it on the floor of the House. If we had more discussion among ourselves, perhaps we might have come to a compromise. However, that is not the case and we are doing this out in the open. With that, I will be supporting the amendment. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Kakfwi, then Mr. Dent. Mr. Kakfwi.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. Regarding the amendment, I believe that the issue is about trying to address the disparity in the number of people being represented in all the constituencies in the Western Territories, not just the ones in Yellowknife. We can never afford to become selective in where we try to have our principles and values reflected. It cannot be contained within the boundaries of Yellowknife.
I think there is a danger that we are introducing a double standard here. The logic of this is that, yes, we are agreeing that there is a disparity, but we are not choosing, for instance, that the disparity be addressed in the least populated constituencies. We are saying, for whatever reason, that we want to impose it on Yellowknife against the wishes of the MLAs representing it. It makes a mockery of the amendment that says we will consult with them anyway. They are right here. They have spoken very clearly today. Who is not here, which is of greater concern to me at this time, is the First Nations leaders that live within the constituencies, particularly in Mr. Erasmus' riding. That is of a concern to me because they deserve more than just consultation after. Critical decisions have been made. We are making a very radical departure here. A very radical departure from the commitments we make particularly to first nations. I will not support the amendment or the motion. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Dent. Thank you for waiting.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have heard from a number of Members, and I, too, will be opposing the amendment and the motion. If there are to be no changes, then let us leave it as is. The people in Yellowknife know what constituency they are in right now. I do not see any reason to have this House force a change when, in fact, the change that was sought was greater voter parity. If that cannot be achieved, then let us leave the constituencies as they are. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We heard that there were a few surprises here, but, Mr. Chairman, I do not think there were any surprises today. We probably saw exactly the sentiment of the Members and the rest of the communities which exactly demonstrates why Yellowknife needs more seats. I will be voting against this amendment and against the initial motion.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
To the amendment. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think that we run a significant risk if we look at Yellowknife in isolation. I do not believe that Yellowknife can be looked at in isolation if we apply the same argument to the rest of the western Arctic that we would be applying by passing this motion that the lines should be redrawn with no mind to anything other than numbers. I believe we open ourselves up to something which, on the surface, may look like a quick fix, but if that philosophy were carried over and applied in other jurisdictions in the NWT, I think probably the majority of Members here would be very unhappy with that. I do not believe that this motion diminishes the risk or the possibility of a court challenge anyway, so I will not be supporting this motion to arbitrarily redraw the Yellowknife lines in isolation of the rest of the picture in the western Arctic. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 402
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I, too, look at this as a very quick fix to the original problem and it is not going to serve to pass onto the public that we are giving this thing very serious thought. I think that Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Roland should look at the fact that I have very small communities in my riding and I seem to be in a position here where I could suggest a motion that would change Mr.
Miltenberger's riding in a matter of a few minutes, with no consultation from his people. We should look at that very seriously. From a small riding, the city versus the town or versus the larger centres, to us is all the same. They are all bigger than we are, but just simply slicing up the pie without anybody's input, and serious input, I do not think that is very responsible government. I sure will not be supporting this motion because it has not been given enough thought.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Steen. To the amendment. Mr. O'Brien.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I know it might be somewhat unusual for me to speak during this debate, given this is a western issue. I should further say that I will not be voting on the issue, I will be abstaining, but I would like to just draw everybody's attention to the fact, to the issue some time ago, when we went through the Nunavut Boundaries Commission and a Member of this House tried to, I guess for the most part, impose changes in my riding, to put another community into my riding without consultation to myself, nor the people that I represent, nor any of the affected communities. I can tell you, Mr. Chairman, I was outraged. When I spoke to the people back in my riding and the other community that was affected, they were not pleased at all that they were not at least consulted. I am not saying that in this case, it is good, bad, or indifferent, but I think if anything, at least it deserves to go back to the people. Let them decide. Thank you.
--Applause
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the amendment, Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There sure are a lot of surprises, there are not that many surprises today I guess, but there are always a few. It is good to see everybody live up to their agreements in this Legislative Assembly. I remember the debate in the Legislative Assembly on the Nunavut Boundaries Commission. We had a mutual agreement with the Nunavut Members that we, as western Members, will be there to make sure they had a quorum, we would support them, whatever they decide. We would not get involved. We thought we had that agreement from them as well. But, everybody shows their colours at different times.
This amendment to the motion, I can understand the concern of the Yellowknife Members. I think the intent of the original motion was to give Yellowknife the opportunity to equal out its ridings. They seem to be very concerned about that. This is not the first time it has been raised. It was raised in the last electoral boundaries that we had in the previous Assembly as well.
It is up to Yellowknife how they move their boundaries around in the city. I believe that this amendment will give them the opportunity by changing it, staying in consultation with the four Yellowknife MLAs, will give them an opportunity to go consult their community and come back and say where they want their riding adjusted. If they do not, then that is fine, but it still will be four seats. No more, four seats. And that is what the motion will read once it is amended, that the current electoral district of Yellowknife North, Yellowknife Centre, Yellowknife Frame Lake and Yellowknife South be redrawn in consultation with the four Yellowknife MLAs. If they come back with exactly the same seats, exactly the same lines, that is how they decided to redraw it, I guess. It would be up to them, but it would be their decision. I am going to support the amendment.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Realizing the concern that was expressed by the Members for Yellowknife, I moved this amendment to try and involve them in any decision that would be made regarding the four constituencies within Yellowknife. I could understand where they are coming from for not supporting the motion, but by doing that, I guess, things are left open as they are or the original motion. I am hoping that by passing this amendment, it will allow more time as well to deal with the issue that is before us. I do not think that I am making a mockery of any system of government. That is not the purpose I have come here for and that is not why I put this amendment out.
There is also work, as we have all heard before, we are here to represent our constituents. A lot of them said, no more government. They have lived through all the cuts. This amendment gives time for the Members of Yellowknife, as well as the Western Caucus Members, to re-evaluate. Hopefully, it will go through. If not, I guess we deal with the original motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
Should we take that as final argument from the mover of the amendment to the original motion?
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
There was a call for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Roland, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Morin, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Rabesca. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
All those opposed, please rise.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Ootes, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Henry, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
All those abstaining, please rise.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Picco, Mr. O'Brien.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 403
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, colleagues. Here is the record for the motion to amend the original motion. For, six. Against, seven. Abstentions, two. The amendment is defeated.
Going back to the original initial motion, do you want to move a motion to read the motion again or do you want to vote now? There was a call for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Morin, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. All those opposed, please stand.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Ootes, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Henry, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. All those abstaining, please stand.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Picco, Mr. O'Brien.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, colleagues. I am advised to call the abstentions again.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Clerk Of Committees Mr. Inch
Mr. Picco, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Antoine.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Here are the records of the votes to the original motion. For, five. Against, seven. Abstentions, three. The motion is defeated. Thank you. Mr. Krutko.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, there is a motion to report progress and the motion is not, I repeat, not debatable. All those in favour, signify. All those in favour? Point of order. Mr. Steen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, I believe we have a motion to sit here until we conclude this item.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Could we have order here, please? Could we have order, please? I am advised that the motion to report progress is always in order and it takes precedence in this Assembly. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is defeated. We shall continue on with the item on the table. Point of order, Mr. Kakfwi.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, although we have not said it explicitly, we have concluded discussion on this item. The item being discussed before the committee was a report that recommended two additional seats for Yellowknife. We entertained that motion, that motion was defeated. We subsequently have dealt with two additional motions, all of which are defeated. It is very clear, although not explicit, that the status quo is that we have concluded what will be our response to the report of the commission. Therefore, I suggest that the item has been concluded and we should adjourn. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I have not called that the item at hand is concluded and I have not had any directions from the membership to agree that the item at hand is concluded, so it has not been concluded. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in fact, there were other recommendations contained in the Electoral Boundaries Commission Report which have not been dealt with by way of motion here today. One of those recommendations included the removal of Enterprise from the Hay River riding and moved into the Deh Cho riding. Mr. Chairman, I am not sure how to proceed with this because, again, this would constitute with dealing with the information gathered by the Electoral Boundaries Commission in isolation of any other kinds of changes. I have questions arising from that. I have indicated publicly that if Enterprise wants to be moved into the Deh Cho, as the representative for that riding I have no objection to that. I understand the reasoning and so on. There are other questions surrounding how this would be dealt with as an isolated change. There could be issues related to how many people attended in Enterprise and whether or not they have been adequately consulted and whether this is a majority position of that community or not. I do not know the answer to that right now. The other thing I do not know is what it would cost to redraw the electoral boundaries to make this one change which is, in fact, for 86 constituents.
I do not know what is involved in terms of redrawing voters' lists, maps, all those sorts of things. I would like to know if this can be brought back to the House as a formal motion after some questions have been looked into with respect to the wishes of the community and the costs associated with doing this in isolation of any other changes to the electoral map? That matter has not been dealt with. That is my question. I do not know who can answer that question, but can this be dealt with as a separate motion, other than within the discussion that is being held here today?
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I will recognize legal counsel for some response to the honourable Mrs. Groenewegen. Ms. MacPherson.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Law Clerk Ms. Macpherson
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, any Member could always move a motion in formal session of the House to accomplish a boundary change. That would then, of course, have to be accompanied by the appropriate legislation in the Legislative Assembly and the Executive Council Act, but the short answer is, yes, you could move a motion in formal session of the House.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 404
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Then, could I indicate for the benefit of the constituents at Enterprise, that after they have had a chance to consider the issues of their wishes in respect of this entire report. I would try and get answers for them with respect to costs to the change to the legislation, the map, and the voters' list and all those sorts of things and get back to them and consult with them and that I would bring this motion back if they so wished. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Any direction? Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question of the law clerk?
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Morin. Proceed, please.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member for Hay River is asking to keep one portion of this report and one recommendation. Now, there were other recommendations that were rejected. What happens with this report now?
Once we finish with this committee of the whole today, can some people wait until Ministers are travelling or whatever, certain ones that everybody knows how everybody voted here, it was a close vote, so I need clarification on this. Then, all of a sudden come out of the blue one day, in the 13th Assembly yet, with the same report in her hand and shoot it through? Is it dead, the other stuff, or is it still alive and kicking? That is what I need to know. If the will of this committee is to not move ahead with these other recommendations, is it finished, the debate then that is it? Then what?
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Ms. McPherson.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Macpherson
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was consulting with the clerk because this is largely a procedural issue that Mr. Morin has raised. This committee must either deal with this report by concluding it or leave the report open. However, it would always be open to any Member to move a formal motion in the House with respect to boundaries, as Members can move formal motions with respect to many items in the House. The rules governing motions would, of course, apply to that motion. In other words, appropriate notice would have to be given unless unanimous consent was received on that day. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Morin.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Don Morin Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One more clarification, please, law clerk. If a motion is put in committee of the whole and there is certain intent of that motion and wording, then it is defeated, then can that motion be re-entered into the Legislative Assembly with the same intent with different wording? Please.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Ms. McPherson.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Macpherson
Yes, it could, Mr. Chairman.
--Laughter
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Thank you, colleagues. We are considering the Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission, 1998. Comments from the floor? Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, I am not sure how we do this? Do I make a motion that we conclude this Electoral Boundaries Commission? Is that how it works?
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. If you wish to make a motion, that is your prerogative at this point. Mr. Miltenberger.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
I move that we consider the Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission 1998, to be concluded.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Chair John Ningark
The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. The Tabled Document 26-13(6), Report of the NWT Electoral Boundaries Commission 1998 is concluded. I will rise and report progress. Thank you.
Committee Motion To Amend Committee Motion 9-13(6)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 405
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 405
John Ningark Natilikmiot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is nice to see you. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 26-13(6), would like to report progress and would like to report that Tabled Document 26-13(6) is concluded. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 405
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. Seconded by Mr. Steen. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Dent.
Bill 10: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 405
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 10: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 405
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 10 has had third reading. Third reading of bills, Mr. Dent.
Bill 11: An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act, No. 2
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 405
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, No. 2, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 11: An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act, No. 2
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Page 405
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All
those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 11 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Item 22, orders of the day. Mr. Clerk.
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 406
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, there is a meeting of the Ordinary Members Caucus at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
Orders of the day for Friday, November 13, 1998:
1. Prayer
2. Ministers' Statements
3. Members' Statements
4. Returns to Oral Questions
5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
6. Oral Questions
7. Written Questions
8. Returns to Written Questions
9. Replies to Opening Address
10. Petitions
11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
13. Tabling of Documents
14. Notices of Motion
15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills
16. Motions
- Motion 10-13(6), Extended Adjournment
17. First Reading of Bills
18. Second Reading of Bills
- Bill 14, Nunavut Judicial System Implementation Act
- Bill 15, Nunavut Statutes Amendment Act
- Bill 16, Nunavut Statutes Replacement Act
- Bill 17, Division Measures Act
- Bill 18, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Statutes Amendment Act
19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
- Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act
- Bill 12, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 1998, No. 2
20. Report of Committee of the Whole
21. Third Reading of Bills
22. Orders of the Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 406
The Speaker Samuel Gargan
Thank you. This House stands adjourned to 10:00 a.m., Friday, November 13, 1998.
--ADJOURNMENT
Please only include contact information if you would like to hear back.
