Good afternoon. Welcome back to the Legislative Assembly. I ask Members to join me in sending our prayers to the community of Cape Dorset. On May 16th, respected elder Kovianaktuliaq Parr died in a fatal hunting accident. He was 68. It appears Mr. Parr decided to go hunting after seeing four people heading out to the ice floe. These men were not aware that Mr. Parr was coming to join them. It is common practice for older hunters to join hunting parties taking off from a floe edge. It has been noted that blowing snow-covered cracks in the ice along the ice floe. The crack Mr. Parr fell into was not far from shore which is usually a common sense trail at this time of year. It may be a comfort to those he leaves behind to know that Mr. Parr died doing what he loved best, hunting. I would like to offer condolences to the friends and family of Mr. Parr, on behalf of Minister Goo Arlooktoo, who was a close friend.

Mr. Parr will also be well remembered as one of the artists who created the original mace of the Government of the Northwest Territories. It is gratifying to know that Mr. Parr had the chance to see the completed mace when he, and the other surviving artists, came to view their creation at a mace ceremony at the Legislative Assembly last summer. It was a pleasure and an honour to have met Mr. Parr during both the Yellowknife and Cape Dorset mace ceremonies.

It should be noted that during this sitting the Pages used will be from across the north. Starting this week, the Pages will be made up of cadets. This year, NWT cadets will reach two significant milestones. This fall the army squadrons of Fort Smith and Inuvik will be celebrating their 35th anniversary, while the air squadrons of Iqaluit and Yellowknife will mark their 25th anniversary. I am sure all Members will join me in offering our congratulations to cadets past and present, for the superb work they have accomplished over these years and wish them good luck in the years to come. I would also like to remind Members of my challenge for them to join me, tomorrow afternoon, in a shooting competition against the cadets.

Again, I welcome Members back to the Legislature. I am sure we will have a productive and beneficial session.

--Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the Members that the Honourable Jim Antoine will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend the meeting of Federal/Provincial/Territorial Ministers of Aboriginal Affairs and National Aboriginal Leaders in Quebec City. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the negotiations between the Government of the Northwest Territories (GNWT) and the Union of Northern Workers (UNW) concluded on May 8, 1998 with the parties at an impasse. The GNWT has tabled a final settlement offer and invited the UNW to take the offer to its membership and let the members decide whether or not to accept it.

The UNW has taken the position that they will not negotiate rates of pay to implement the Hay Job Evaluation System and to settle the Pay Equity Complaint. The Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) negotiator from Ottawa said that he was instructed not to talk about pay equity at the bargaining table and they would not be taking the final settlement offer to the members.

During the last round of bargaining, the UNW proposed that the job evaluation process be referred to binding arbitration and that a southern arbitrator be selected to tell us whether or not the point ratings are bias free. This proposal was geared to take the implementation of the new job evaluation system off the bargaining table and move it to another legal process that would be in addition to the legal processes already in place. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that the UNW and its pay equity experts can review the evaluation process for themselves to decide whether the point ratings are bias free and do not require a southern arbitrator to do this. The GNWT and the UNW had signed off an agreement to do this at the second round of collective bargaining, but unfortunately, although the UNW had agreed to the review process, they chose not to attend.

At the last round of bargaining, the GNWT once again invited the UNW to participate in a joint review process. This offer was made because the only way the UNW can satisfy itself that the job evaluation process is bias free is by gaining an understanding of it. The UNW declined this offer.

The GNWT cannot sign an agreement that renews rates of pay knowing that there is a pay equity problem. It would be irresponsible for the GNWT to sign a collective agreement that then gives the UNW the opportunity to sue the GNWT for more money because there is a pay equity problem. The parties who were at collective bargaining created the pay equity problem. The parties at collective bargaining must resolve the problem. The GNWT negotiated as far as it could on all other outstanding issues. Many significant concessions were made by the negotiators to address employee and UNW issues.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the GNWT's final settlement offer. I believe you will agree that the offer is fair and there is absolutely no downside risk to employees and the UNW in the way that the new job evaluation system is to be implemented. Employees see only pay increases. No employee will see a decrease in pay. The offer provides pay equity payments that go beyond what the GNWT is legally obligated to pay.

The final settlement offer includes:

- A 2 percent to 31 percent wage increase in the first year;

- A 2 percent wage increase in the second year;

- Up to 5 percent annually in performance increments or bonus;

- $421 to $4,096 in Northern Allowance increases for employees outside of Yellowknife;

- An additional $500 lump sum Northern Allowance amount in each year for all employees;

- $790 to $33,199 in pay equity payments;

- Five mandatory leave days for continuous employees on the same basis as non-continuous employees;

- School year hours of work for dental therapists; and

- Many other significant improvements in benefits, rights and protection for employees such as shift premium increases for shift workers, a study on how to improve child care and a pro-active prevention strategy to deal with workplace conflict issues.

I believe employees should be given an opportunity to vote and I am confident the package would be accepted. The final settlement offer is generous and gives everyone more money, achieves pay equity and allows the GNWT to modernize its job evaluation system with absolutely no downside risk to any employee. It provides an environment of certainty for employees during the transition to two new public services on April 1, 1999.

Mr. Speaker, the matter is now between the UNW and its members who are our employees and our constituents. If employees are concerned with the impasse, they should talk to the UNW who is their legal bargaining agent. It is time for employees to make their stand on the issue known. They can do this by demanding a ratification vote. This would give them the opportunity to either support the UNW's strategy to use a long drawn out legal process to resolve pay equity or they can accept the final settlement offer and require the UNW to sign off a collective agreement and to work with the GNWT and employees to look for ways to improve the system and ensure pay equity is maintained in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you are aware on March 28, 1989 the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) filed a complaint with the Canadian Human Rights Commission (Commission) on behalf of the Union of Northern Workers (UNW) alleging that the GNWT did not provide its Public Service employees with equal pay for work of equal value contrary to Sections 7, 10 and 11 of the Canadian Human Rights Act.

The GNWT presently has an application before the federal court challenging the decision of the Commission to request the appointment of a Human Rights Tribunal to inquire into the Section 7 and 11 portions of the complaint while continuing to investigate the Section 10 portion of the complaint. It is expected that this application will be heard in the fall.

Mr. Speaker, on March 17, 1998 Justice Muldoon of the federal court, in a decision in a pay equity case involving Bell Canada, said the following:

That the method of comparing wages of employees in female dominated jobs with employees in male dominated jobs presently being used by the Commission is illegal.

That it is bad faith for a union to negotiate a collective agreement and then file a pay equity complaint against the employer.

That unions have a responsibility for lost wages due to pay inequities in collective agreements they negotiate.

In light of this decision, the GNWT is in the process of amending its present federal court application to ask to have the complaint filed against the GNWT dismissed or alternatively to have the UNW held jointly responsible for any award made by a Human Rights Tribunal. On March 23, 1998, Justice McGillis of the federal court, in another decision in a pay equity case involving Bell Canada, said that Human Rights Tribunals, appointed under the Canadian Human Rights Act, lacked the requisite level of independence. Because of this federal court decision, the Human Rights Tribunal appointed to hear the complaint filed against the GNWT, has been adjourned indefinitely.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT's preference is still a negotiated solution to the pay equity complaint filed against the GNWT. The GNWT and I, as Finance Minister, stand by its final settlement offer to the UNW, which as you know includes the introduction of a bias-free job evaluation system, as a fair and reasonable settlement to the pay equity complaint. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Ministers' statements. Ms. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, later today I will be tabling the Inspection Report for the Enterprise Settlement Corporation.

--Applause

Thank you. On March 2 to 6, 1998, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs conducted an inspection of the Enterprise Settlement Corporation. As a result of the inspection, numerous violations of legislation were found. There were 25 specific violations of the Settlements Act; Enterprise Settlement Corporation Continuation Order; Cities, Towns and Villages Act; Local Authorities Elections Act; Conflict of Interest Act and the Civil Emergency Measures Act.

Mr. Speaker, copies of the Inspection Report were distributed to the residents of Enterprise by the Settlement Administrator, Mr. Ian McCrea, earlier today. I will be going to Enterprise next week to hold a public meeting and to discuss the next steps with the residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to properly acknowledge the hard work being done by Senior Administrative Officers or SAOs, and especially those in my communities of Broughton Island, Clyde River and Pangnirtung. They function as best as they can with a minimal amount of qualified support staff. Mr. Speaker, with limited resources, they get the job done.

For those of you who may not know what SAOs do, let me briefly describe their responsibilities for you. All municipal officers and politicians, like ourselves, are responsible to the residents and to the GNWT for delivering and administering programs locally. The SAO is the key person in municipal management. He or she provides and coordinates the administrative, financial and management services for the municipality.

In many of the more remote communities, the SAO is responsible for all of these important functions. Most northern communities are very small and it is very difficult to find enough staff locally who are qualified to help the SAO to complete financial or managerial duties. It is sometimes more difficult to get people to come to the communities to take over those positions. Many times the SAOs have to rely on the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs regional or headquarters staff to help him or her fulfil their responsibilities. In most cases, the SAO will complete all required duties themselves with very little support. As a result, they do not have enough time to spend with their families or time to properly rest. The shortage of support staff available to help the SAO at the regional and headquarters levels makes the task even more difficult.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that the job of the SAO is very stressful and I wish to once again acknowledge their hard work. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Members' statements. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will speak in Inuktitut. (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. I would like to welcome my fellow colleagues back to the House. The former Member Ludy Pudluk used to say that he does not like meeting in the summer time and I also feel the same way. I would like to extend my gratitude to the people of Grise Fiord. They expressed some concerns about pay equity and the lack of office space. Those were the concerns expressed by the people of Grise Fiord.

There has been another sad event in my community, there has been a person who passed away, which of course is not a very happy event, but the people of Grise Fiord have tried to make my stay there happy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today as we all know is the first day of our spring session. I would like to welcome my colleagues back to this House. I hope everyone has had a very restful and enjoyable visit to their home, families and communities.

As you may recall, prior to closing the last sitting I pushed to get the Department of MACA to recognize that Rae-Edzo is a unique community and does not fall within the typical Municipal Funding Formula. Today, I would like to inform this House as well as thank the Minister of MACA for recognizing the unique situation Rae-Edzo is in. This, of course, is just a start in rectifying the total problems that have occurred and I hope that work will continue through the normal funding review process.

As in all funding formulas of this type, one will never make everyone happy. However, by assisting my community, at least we are not the lowest funded with the largest population, as was the case before we started this exercise. I, again, would like to welcome my colleagues back to this Chamber and thank Ms. Thompson for her assistance to the community of Rae-Edzo. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mrs. Groenewegen, you have unanimous consent.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before I get started, I would like to welcome all the MLAs back to Yellowknife. I would like to remind you to feel free to spend lots of money in our fair city. I know you will spend a lot more if you have accommodations here than you would have if you were in Hay River or Fort Smith, as my colleague from Fort Smith reminds me.

During our break from the House, I talked to a lot of my constituents and they raised a lot of issues, about which I will be making statements and asking questions. Obviously, they were very happy when it was announced that the diamond sorting facility would be built in Yellowknife. They also had a lot of problems and issues they would like to see resolved. For instance, the pay equity and contract negotiations issue is something all people would like to see resolved. Many people have mentioned they were displeased with the fact that Yellowknife is being used as a base for the Northern Allowance, while it is not the cheapest community to live in. There was also a lot of discussion about education and people are very displeased with the student/teacher ratio and the fact that we have the highest ratio in Canada. They would like to see this go down. In the area of adult education, people are quite concerned. We have a very poorly educated population and people would like to see that changed for the adults. There is concern about the constitution. They would like to see this happening in the west. Many people mentioned the fact that there are very poor youth treatment facilities and would also like to see this addressed. There are quite a few problems that are arising from the income support and the way it is being implemented.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, in the area of aboriginal and treaty rights, I have attended several meetings where this was brought up and the government is not really recognizing or living up to agreements on treaty and aboriginal rights. As I said, I will be making statements and asking questions in these areas and others, as well, during the course of this session. Thank you.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I thank you on behalf of my constituency for the kind words you expressed about the passing of Kovianaktuliaq Parr. I will ensure they are passed on to the family immediately.

If you ask why this is such a critical issue and why should we, Members of the Legislative Assembly and government, be concerned about it; the answer is simple. I view the carving industry as the largest employer or the top income provider for the majority of my constituents. Many families have depended on carving sales to pay bills, buy food and to buy hunting equipment and supplies to support subsistence lifestyles. I believe and have been pushing for action on the part of buyers, producers and government to cooperate to see if there are areas that we could work together on to help improve the conditions of this industry. This could be in marketing strategies, finding new buyers, quality and quantity control and issues regarding material availability. There is also the complex issue of reducing the dependence on carvings, finding other forms of employment and dealing with the fact that not everyone can support their families on a carving income alone.

Recently, I have been working with all parties, in particular the Minister of RWED, to move the work on this issue along. We hope to distribute, to interested parties, options and possible strategies in the next week. Your support would be appreciated. (Translation ends)

That concludes my statement. I do have further information that I will pass on to other Members of the House at another time.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Welcome back to you and my honourable colleagues. I would like to take this opportunity in my Member's statement, Mr. Speaker, to recognize a young lady from Cambridge Bay, who happens to be sitting to your left. Her position and name are Master Corporal Melanie Puglik of the army cadets. She has the honour of representing her community on behalf of her fellow cadets and acting as a page for us this week. Welcome to the Assembly.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Welcome back to my colleagues. Welcome back to Yellowknife. I also, Mr. Speaker, had the opportunity to have discussions with many constituents, and I believe they have concerns and issues related to job creation, P3 projects, employee concerns, pay equity, division of the Northwest Territories and formula financing concerns for particularly the west.

One that I would like to talk about in particular, Mr. Speaker, is that I had the opportunity, on April 18th, to attend the commissioning of the HMCS Yellowknife in Victoria, British Columbia. There were many Yellowknifers and northerners in attendance for that event, including many former northern residents now living in southern Canada. Among those in attendance were the honourable Ministers Antoine and Kakfwi representing this government who presented gifts to the Captain of this vessel. Minister Antoine presented Captain Bancroft with a plaque which consisted of a NWT license plate and registration documents. Mr. Speaker, this gift was very unique. The license plate, numbered MM706, is an actual naval designation number. What is very unique is the fact that this license plate number is actually registered in the Department of Transportation system as a motor vehicle. The NWT can also be identified as the only jurisdiction anywhere having a war ship registered on their motor vehicle system. On behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, Minister Kakfwi presented HMCS Yellowknife's Captain Bancroft with a beautiful muskox blanket. I understand it gets rather cold in the evenings aboard ship. Minister Kakfwi also presented a stuffed raven which is, as you know, the mascot for Yellowknife. I learned that this particular raven was found dead in the streets, and Minister Kakfwi took it upon himself to have the raven stuffed and presented to the Captain.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge these two Ministers on the manner in which they carried out their duties on behalf of this government. It was with pleasure and with pride that I was able to observe the admiration of the gathered crowd for the professionalism and wit of both Ministers. We can sometimes take for granted our own government Ministers and senior officials, but when we have had the opportunity, such as I had, to stand back and observe, we can certainly appreciate the calibre of leadership we sometimes take for granted that we have in our own back yard. I would ask that my fellow Members join me in a gesture of gratitude to those two Ministers for a job well done at the commissioning of the HMCS Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

--Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on March 27th, the north lost one of its most benevolent and community-oriented citizens. Mr. Fred Coman was a father, a businessman and community activist. He devoted much time to contributing to the well-being of Iqaluit and Nunavut residents. Fred came north in 1962. He worked first for a company called East Coast Carriers. Later he branched out into owning and operating a theatre, restaurant, cartage business and carving store. Fred was a successful entrepreneur but never lost sight of the community and its people.

I recall several meetings with the Honourable John Todd and other members of the Nunatsiaq Liberal Party when Fred would crack a joke or provided insight that put us on the right track. He was an excellent campaign organizer and a friend.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the people of Iqaluit, I am sure this House joins with me in expressing our good wishes and condolences to Fred's wife, Olannie; his son, Henry, and daughter, Heather, on their loss. He will be missed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Members' statements. Item 4, Returns to oral questions. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Miltenberger on February 18, 1998, regarding mortgage life insurance for clients. This is a very important issue. The corporation, through client counselling for the Expanded Down Payment Assistance Program encourages everyone with a bank mortgage to carry mortgage protection insurance. The purchase of this insurance is also encouraged by the lending institutions themselves.

Purchasing mortgage protection insurance will ensure that the mortgage is paid out in the event of the unfortunate death of either party who signed the mortgage.

Under the Expanded Down Payment Assistance Program itself the corporation does not require mortgage insurance for its portion because our assistance is provided as an upfront grant or as a forgivable loan. In either case, an untimely death of an individual under the program will not require any adjustment to the forgiveness as long as the family can continue to live in the home and meet their bank mortgage. If they had purchased mortgage insurance, they will not have to make any further payments to the bank.

The corporation has considered setting up its own Mortgage Insurance Fund paid for by fees charged to program clients. However, the payments would end up being too high in order to set up a fund large enough to pay out mortgages.

An option being pursued in the case of a death of a major income earner is to allow clients to access additional corporation support to bring down their bank mortgage payments to a level which would be affordable or to pay out their bank mortgage in full and convert the client to another program.

Mr. Speaker, the corporation is developing final recommendations on this important matter for my review by the end of March, 1998.

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two new returns to oral questions, firstly asked by Mr. Picco on January 26, 1998 on strategy for family planning. The residents of the NWT make their own decisions about the size and timing of their families. However, the government does have a number of services which help people make their own choices about having children.

Through the schools' health curriculum, young people learn more about making choices and the responsibilities that come with those choices. The program includes developing self esteem, having the confidence to make decisions, and knowing and understanding the consequences of actions. The Department of Health and Social Services acts as a resource to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment on the health curriculum.

Through the health and social services boards, there is support in a number of ways for community residents. Family planning is part of the Well Women yearly visit in an informal way, dependent on each woman's individual needs. Formalized counselling is part of post natal care to ensure women make clear choices about when or if they want to have more children.

Individual communities and regions have had promotional campaigns about sexually transmitted disease control and family planning. The department has some promotional education materials available for residents and health and social service centres.

Some people make a very conscious decision to avoid pregnancy for a number of reasons. The community health centres have condoms, birth control pills, Depo Provera and other preventative methods available free of charge.

Having a child is a huge responsibility. It affects lifestyles, disposable income, almost every aspect of a person's life. While the government has not developed a plan to encourage a lower rate of population growth, there are a number of programs in place to make sure that, as much as possible, children are born to parents who want those children at a time in the parents' lives when they want the responsibility of the child.

Mr. Speaker, return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ootes on February 2, 1998 on breast cancer screening programs, the department utilizes two prevention techniques. Primary prevention refers to interventions that will prevent the development of the disease. Known modifiable risk factors include diet, alcohol consumption and cigarette smoking.

The department has been actively involved in promoting the preservation of traditional diets and regular consumption of traditional foods. Fact sheets have been prepared and made available to all health centres and regional health promotion staff. EpiNorth, the departmental epidemiological newsletter, regularly includes information on this topic.

Tobacco smoke is also a strong risk factor for the development of breast cancer. The department actively encourages and supports its regional boards to target smoking as the most important health risk factor.

Secondary prevention focuses on finding the disease at the earliest possible stage and effectively treating it before it has caused illness or to prevent any further spread and threat to the overall health of the individual.

Screening against breast cancer, in appropriate populations, allows the disease to be found at an earlier stage when treatment is more likely to result in a cure. The components of a comprehensive breast cancer screening program include: 1) teaching all women breast self examination; 2) annual examination of the breasts by a trained health professional and 3) screening mammography, a special X-ray, for women in selected risk groups where benefits of mammography have been documented to offset the risks.

The department has, or is doing, the following secondary prevention initiatives:

- Breast cancer screening is incorporated into nursing practice standards for all health centres.

- Training for teaching breast self-examination and for performing clinical examinations of the breast have been provided through the Advanced Nursing Skills Inservice Program (ANSIP) since the beginning of the program.

- Resource materials and teaching tools to boards.

- Support was provided in 1990 for Stanton to develop its mammography service.

- Interim guidelines for mammography screening were provided to all boards and health professionals in 1995.

- Revised screening guidelines were submitted to the department in November, 1997, and distributed to all boards as well as the NWTMA in December. A workshop has been planned for March 13th, which will involve representatives from the various boards, as well as departmental staff to discuss implementation of these guidelines.

NWT breast cancer rates are still lower than elsewhere in Canada. The cancer registry reports no one having breast cancer from any of the Dogrib communities. Breast cancer in Inuit women over 50 also remains rare. It is important that we focus on primary prevention to maintain these rates at the lowest possible level for all coming generations. Thank you.

Thank you. Returns to oral question. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to recognize two professional artists, Bob Kussy and Billy Merkosak. Thank you.

--Applause

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a person from Pond Inlet. William Merkosak, who is a good carver, is here. I would like people to recognize him. Thank you. (Translation ends)

--Applause

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Roland.

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko.

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Steen.

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to, at this time, recognize Mr. John Quirke, who is the new Clerk of the Nunavut Legislative Assembly and a resident of Iqaluit.

--Applause

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me pleasure to

recognize Mrs. Kelly Kaylo, who is the regional manager for Canadian North Airlines. Thank you.

--Applause

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize our trusty reporter who is always on duty, not always printing what we like but shooting straight from the hip, Mr. Jeff Colburn from News North.

--Applause

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Before we go on to Item 6, oral questions, Minister Todd made mention in his statement that there is an application related to the pay equity issue which is still before the courts. I believe that is what he said. I am not sure whether or not it would be in order for Members to be asking questions since under our rules, it is very clear that Members must not ask questions to seek an opinion on matters that are before the courts.

I have asked our law clerk to give me an opinion on that. I would like to have it before we proceed with question period. I understand Members are going to be asking and I do not want to make a mistake of going ahead with a question if it is subject to the sub judice convention.

We will take a break.

--Break

I would like to apologize, first of all, to the Members for a delay in question period. I felt very uncomfortable on whether or not we should proceed if we anticipate that there will be questions asked on pay equity. I wanted to be sure I am fair to the Members and also fair to the government who would be receiving the questions. There was a ruling made by Speaker Ballantyne in September, 1992, and I just want to say a few things on it as to what he said regarding civil cases.

The purpose of the sub judice convention is twofold: to protect the interested parties from prejudice and to maintain a separation and mutual respect between the legislative and judicial branches of government.

The rule as it applies to civil matters, particularly those pending before a quasi-judicial tribunal, in this case it is the Human Rights Commission, is less clear and hence the sub judice convention becomes more difficult to apply. Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, citation 507(1), notes "that no settled practice has been developed in relation to civil cases, as the convention has been applied in some cases but not to others." Thus, the application of this ill-defined convention, as it is applied to civil matters, is left to the relevant Speaker.

We will allow questions to be asked in this case. I will also be relying on our law clerk, if we feel that the question is out of order, the Members will be told. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance concerning the collective bargaining process. Mr. Speaker, with the current impasse in the collective bargaining with the UNW, will the Minister of Finance now remove pay equity from the negotiating table? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said many times in this House and as I alluded to in my earlier Minister's statement, we are not prepared, at this time, to remove pay equity because if we did and we signed a collective agreement knowing there were pay inequities, we would be in a position to be sued by the UNW. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister in this House, categorically state and confirm that the new job classification system as proposed and introduced by the GNWT, formulated by Hay Associates, is in actuality gender neutral and bias free? Can the Minister categorically tell us now that is the case?

Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker. I believe to the best of our ability it is. We have, I believe, evaluated somewhere in the region of 5,000 jobs. We have indicated on a number of occasions that there may be some slippage out there. I have asked that clearly in a letter to the UNW, what their concerns are. We will try to address them in a reasonable manner. I am confident that the Hay Associates Job Evaluation Plan is fair and bias free. There may be one or two isolated cases that require re-examination. We have offered that up on a consistent basis and I offer it up again today. We have indicated we could do that with a joint committee made up of ourselves and the UNW. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the next step on the negotiating round would be mediation. Will the GNWT be moving to the next step of mediation of the collective agreement negotiations today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

I would have liked to have gotten an agreement from the UNW that the proposal we placed with them was one they could take to the membership. If they choose to go to mediation, I do not have a problem with that. Thank you.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the UNW has, time and time again, stated that the job information which has been evaluated is not complete, current or bias free. Has Mr. Todd the ability to table in this House any information so we can see it, so the people, the public at large, can see that the information being provided by the GNWT is current; has been fairly evaluated and, indeed, is bias free? Thank you.

There were two questions, Mr. Todd.

If my honourable colleague is asking me if I am prepared to table the work that was done by the Hay Associates Job Evaluation Plan, I do not think that is a problem. I will check with Mr. Voytilla. Provided we are not causing any undue stress or breach to individual employees, I will be only too happy to table it in the House. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe I was the Minister at the time and I am not trying to fluff off that it was under previous governments. So I will take that question as notice because I am not aware of the details of that. I was not in the government at the time and will report back to my honourable colleague. Thank you.

Question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Minister of Finance and is also on the question of collective bargaining and pay equity. Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity, as all Members did, to have some conversations with some of our employees at the front of the Legislative Assembly Building today. I would like to suggest that was a peaceable and democratic demonstration of people's rights and to get their message across. I suggest it was very peaceable and I think there was only one individual who was a little boisterous and I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that individual was not an employee of the Government of the Northwest Territories and I, certainly for one, expect more of the employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories. My question to the Minister is, what message did he get from that meeting that was outside the Legislative Assembly Building today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

First of all, I thought maybe the boisterous person he was talking about was myself...

--Laughter

...but the message I received was that people are not particularly pleased with the events that are unfolding. I respect the fact that the UNW and people who are not happy with government policy, decisions we make, have a right to lobby out there and I respect that and I hope that they will respect that I have an obligation and responsibility to the territories as a whole and I am trying to find, I thought through negotiations, a reasonable compromise that we can all live with. I guess the message from that group was that we are not happy and we want you to fix it. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister responsible for FMBS very well described the global feeling and that was an answer I expected from him. I think there was an

issue there, a strong issue, and it has been mentioned before by some of my colleagues, that there was a strong message out there today that the UNW wished to have the issue of pay equity separated from the contract negotiations. My question to the Minister is, will the Minister commit to getting back with the UNW at the table? I am not asking the Minister to remove it at this time from the table. I am not asking him to separate it. I am asking for the Minister's commitment on behalf of his government to commit to putting his side back to the table to discuss it. As long as people are not talking, they cannot resolve problems. My question is, will the Minister commit to putting his representatives back to the table to discuss with the UNW, nothing in particular, but at least to get back to the table? Thank you.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I tried to demonstrate today that I was prepared to listen, as I have been ever since I got elected. If the UNW wishes to come back to the table to discuss the final offer, the door is open, not closed. I am willing to say that today we are prepared to come to the table, but we have placed the final offer, I have to qualify it, on the table. I would say to my honourable colleague that the door is not closed, but there is very little room at this time to manoeuvre in terms as where we are with the final agreement. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that. What I am after is just to get people back talking. They can decide what they are going to talk about when they get there. The Minister has also, and I will respect your ruling, Mr. Speaker, on the cases that are before the court...the Minister, Mr. Todd, in his Minister's statement today did mention, and I quote, "In light of the decision, the GNWT is in the process of amending its present federal court application to ask to have the complaint filed against the GNWT dismissed or alternatively to have the UNW held jointly responsible for any award made by the Human Rights Tribunal." My question to the Minister is, will the Minister commit at least until after the initial meeting to put that process of amending on hold until he has at least had one opportunity to sit down with the UNW to see where talks may go? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

I do not think it would be appropriate for me to do that at this time. I want to remind everybody that I am advised that if we sign a collective agreement knowing that there is now a pay equity problem, then we leave ourselves vulnerable to a suit by the UNW. We need to come to a resolution on the pay equity situation, along with the collective agreement, that is fair and equitable to our employees. I believe we have done that. I have already said it and there may be the odd glitch within the job evaluation system. When you deal with 5,000 employees and 5,000 re-evaluations of jobs there is going to be some growing pains in this issue. I do not think it is appropriate that we delay this. I think we need to proceed. We need to get the message across that we are trying, that this is a fair and reasonable offer. If we are going to go back to the bargaining table, I have no problem with that. If we are going to go to arbitration or mediator, I have no problem with that. Ultimately what I really want is the ability for the UNW/GNWT to come to an agreement. If they cannot, put it out to the membership to allow them to vote on it. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Finance again in a gesture of conciliation if he would, and I quote, "put on hold the process of amending it." I am not asking him to wipe it off and not proceed with it at a later date if he chooses, but to just put it on hold until he has an opportunity to sit down with the UNW to see where this discussion may go. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

Well, my honourable colleague is making an assumption that the UNW wants to come back to the table. I do not know that right now. Both parties have come to an impasse, unfortunately. The UNW has gone from the table. We are away from the table. I have offered up today, publicly, that we are prepared to go back to the table. I do not know what the other parties will say though. It would be inappropriate of me to make any kind of comment as to what direction we would take on that until I know whether the UNW is prepared to come to the table. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Nunavut Transition, Mr. Arlooktoo. It is regarding the decentralized model as it relates to Footprints 2. Mr. Speaker, a number of my constituents are concerned and some are confused about the jobs that have been earmarked for my communities of Arviat and Baker Lake. There have been recent rumours and speculation that the model has been somewhat changed. My question to the Minister is, has the GNWT agreed to any modifications, deviations that relate to the decentralized model? Thank you.

The Deputy Premier, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a couple of things that we need to recognize when we talk about division and decentralization; that is, we need to deal with some factors that will require us to work harder in some areas than in others. Decentralization is an important aspect and important principle of division. One of the critical things we are dealing with right now is assessing the capacity of the Nunavut government and trying to ensure that programs and services continue without disruption and also, that the four critical areas or basic functions of government are there, the justice system, the Executive, the legislative and the financial parts of government. Those are the areas that we are concentrating on right now. As I said, decentralization is an important principle, but a bit further back from those critical areas that I mentioned.

Where the jobs will go in division and decentralization is the responsibility of the Interim Commissioner. The GNWT stands by its commitment to decentralization and we are very much heavily involved with work that is going on between our deputies and the Nunavut deputies, who have just come out of some very important meetings in Iqaluit last week. That would be my comment. We are still committed to decentralization, but at this point in time assessing capacity and making sure the programs continue is very much the number one priority right now.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the jobs that I refer to that are earmarked for my two communities at this point in time, I think they number approximately 80. There are a number of people who have left the community to seek work in some of the other communities to get some experience to take jobs in the hope that when these new jobs are transferred to, for example, Arviat; they will be in a position to take these jobs on. The speculation now is that they have moved to another community and the job they are hoping to be transferred back to in their home community may not happen.

I think we have a responsibility to advise the community as soon as possible if there has been any change or deviation from what has been agreed to. My question, Mr. Speaker, is, who has the responsibility to make any changes to the decentralized model? Is it not the three signatories: the feds, the GNWT and NTI? Is that the facts, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said earlier, the decentralization and movement of jobs from Iqaluit and from Yellowknife to the subregional centres such as Arviat, Pangnirtung, Cape Dorset, one of my communities, are important aspects. I have to be honest and tell you that is the least of our problems right now. The number one priority is to make sure the government is up and functioning. We are well on our way to make sure that happens. We have some difficult challenges that we are tackling. Things like recruiting, housing for staff and infrastructure are challenging us right now.

The jobs that are earmarked in Footprints 1 and 2 to the decentralized communities are still there. They are still there in the plans. If I can speak as an MLA just for a moment, representing a community that has been chosen as one of the subregional offices, I am very concerned and want to make sure those jobs are moved to that community. In the meantime we have to make sure the new government is functioning properly and that the basic elements of government are there. In a very short period of time we are coming very close to an election. As I understand it, the writ will be issued the 1st of January with an election on February 15th or so. I can appreciate the Member's concern and I will relay that to the Interim Commissioner, who we are working closely with. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a point of clarification, I appreciate what the Minister is saying and the complexities of trying to put everything together in time for April 1, 1999. My question again to the Minister is, can the residents of my communities and the other communities that will be affected, for example jobs that are supposed to be transferred from one region or community to another, both parties deserve to know what is happening, where they stand, are they going to be moving? As well, the host community should know what is happening in their case. Is the Minister stating, at this point in time, that there have been no changes to the decentralized model and what has been identified is still the same as of this day? Thank you.

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member does have an important point in that the communities and our residents deserve to know. That is the very strong message that I was giving to the Interim Commissioner during the last Nunavut Leaders meeting. I know they are working on an information campaign and that we will be knowing more shortly.

One of the things that is a factor is that the deputies for the Nunavut government have just been hired in the last few weeks. They are just setting up their offices. They are just assessing what their capacity is and will be in the next few months. They do require some time to see how they are going to do the job that we have mandated them to do. I am told by July, when we have the next Nunavut Leaders meeting, somewhere in the Keewatin, I believe, we will have a much better idea to be told when jobs will be moved to the communities, how much work the Nunavut government will be able to do and how much they will contract out to individuals, businesses or governments such as the GNWT. I believe by the middle of July we will have a much better idea. I will relay the Member's concern to the appropriate parties.

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From the comments the honourable Minister has made, I think it is clear, or we can assume, and I hope we are correct on this, the proposed decentralized model is the same as what is proposed in Footprints 2. There have been no changes. Thank you.

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been no official changes. The new deputy ministers that have the enormous and very challenging tasks of making it a reality are working on that right now. The one thing we did suggest to them, the Interim Commissioner and I, when we met with them last week in Iqaluit is that we will be supportive of them, that we will encourage them to find new ideas and be creative. We will be flexible in the way they do their job in trying to set up the new government. The answer is yes. The plan in Footprints 2 stays the same. How it is implemented is what is being worked on right now.

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Premier.