Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Good afternoon. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Point of Order

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. I respect the Member's point of order and I agree that the comments made by the Premier yesterday justifiably provoked her point of order. I must state that the comments being made in this Chamber by the Premier, the Member for Hay River, and comments that may be made by other Members on this matter cause me considerable concern. In light of the calling of a public inquiry into the conflict of interest complaint, I will not allow any more questions or comments made in statements that directly or indirectly deals with the conflict of interest matter. In the interest of fairness, I will not allow this Chamber to be used as a forum that might influence the Conflict of Interest inquiry.

--Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the years, students in engineering have found considerable support from the Department of Public Works and Services. I would like to tell you about two of the ways my department encourages these students.

At the junior high level, Public Works and Services and Transportation presents awards to the best math and science students in each school. These awards show students that math and science are important.

Among high school students, we want to increase awareness of the career possibilities in engineering. This is the eleventh year for the program called Introduction to Engineering, Architecture and Computer Careers. Over the years, 186 students have taken part in the program. This year 57 students applied for the program. Twenty were chosen - eight students from Nunavut and 12 from the west. Seven of the 20 students are young women. Twelve of the students are aboriginal. We especially want to encourage these two groups to pursue engineering careers.

The summer program includes an orientation week in Yellowknife. For Nunavut students, there is an orientation week in Iqaluit. This is followed by a project in the student's home community with assistance and supervision from a government employee or sometimes from an engineer from a private company. At the end of the six-week program, the student makes a written report and an oral presentation on the project. The summer program helps these students make education and career choices. Almost 70 percent of the students in the summer program go on to post-secondary education.

Public Works and Services is not the only government agency to encourage engineering careers for northerners. The Housing Corporation, Municipal and Community Affairs and my Department of Transportation are also partners in these programs. I feel this is a good example of how we can work together to encourage northern students and eventually to fill jobs with NWT residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Ministers' statements. Minister Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, up to 50 people are reported missing every year in the Northwest Territories. The cost for a search conducted by the territorial or federal government can range from $100 to over $100,000.

This government spends over $100,000 on search and rescue operations every year. This amount does not include what the communities or the Canadian Forces and Coast Guard spend on searches.

Mr. Speaker, there is room for much improvement in this area. I am pleased to report that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has introduced a public awareness campaign aimed at reducing the number of search and rescue incidents. The Search and Rescue Public Awareness Campaign is designed to educate and encourage northerners to always be prepared when travelling on the land or water. The campaign is based on the national theme of sharing the responsibility. The key message is that people must share the responsibility for caring for themselves by avoiding risk. They must take reasonable measures to minimize their personal risk and maximize their ability to survive, if they are lost or stranded.

Mr. Speaker, search and rescue incidents are often due to mechanical failure, weather changes, failure to tell anyone of travel plans or a lack of survival equipment. This campaign will educate and encourage Northerners to always be prepared. This includes:

- making a trip plan and giving it to family, friends or the RCMP;

- packing emergency equipment and supplies;

- taking a tool kit;

- checking the weather;

- ensuring your equipment is in proper working order, and

- being prepared for the worst.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank the RCMP for their cooperation and active participation in search and rescue prevention and training. Through initiatives such as this, I am confident that we can make a difference and reduce the number of search and rescue incidents in the north. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week Members of this Assembly referred to the upcoming CRTC hearings on high cost serving areas, which will take place in Iqaluit on June 25th. I hope I can clear up any confusion about this hearing. For a long time, NorthwesTel has a monopoly on all phone services in the north. The CRTC allowed this position because of the extremely high cost of providing quality service to remote locations with few residents. Times change. The CRTC recently approved the introduction of competition for long distance services in the north. There is still some concern, however, about full and affordable access to telephone services in all communities.

Mr. Speaker, in the NWT, it costs about twice as much to provide basic services as it does in other parts of Canada. Without long-distance revenues, those higher costs would have to be reflected in higher local access rates. As we move closer to full competition for all telecommunications services, including local service, there is a danger that the quality of service to remote communities will decline because of the high cost of maintaining that service. Yet, it is the remoteness of our communities that makes good telecommunications critically important. The CRTC has recognized the problem and is currently holding regional hearings to consider whether a fund should be established. This fund would not subsidize NorthwesTel and other phone companies. The fund would, in fact, assist those who live in remote areas so that high-cost telecommunications services will be affordable.

As I mentioned, the CRTC will hold a regional hearing in Iqaluit on June 25th. There will be a video hook-up to the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre in Yellowknife and telephone hook-ups to Arctic Islands Lodge in Cambridge Bay, the Ptarmigan Inn in Hay River, the Mackenzie Hotel in Inuvik and the Siniktarvik Hotel in Rankin Inlet.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to advise the House that the Deputy Premier, the Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, will represent the government at the Iqaluit hearing. I will be providing each Member of the Legislative Assembly with a copy of the government's preliminary submission to the CRTC, and I encourage them to share it with constituents who are interested in these issues. It is extremely important that northerners speak up at these hearings to indicate:

- the importance of telecommunications to life and business in the north,

- the high cost of phone services on top of an already high cost of living, and

- the north lacks services that are available in other parts of Canada.

I hope that there will be active participation in this hearing and I encourage all of you to take part. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to share some information in this House on the results of a survey which was conducted by the Fraser Institute. The survey was given to Canadian mining companies operating in Canada to evaluate each province and territory in the areas of the industry, including mineral potential and government policy, then combine these results and provides an overall rating for attractiveness for investment.

Mr. Speaker, results of this survey are very important if we are to nurture and promote the mining industry in the north. Not surprising, the mining companies surveyed indicated the NWT has the highest mineral potential in Canada. Of course, Mr. Speaker, we already knew that. So how do we rate with our policies and attractiveness to investors? Mining companies rated us second to lowest in terms of our government policies on attracting new exploration investment. Unfavourable policies are increasingly threatening new exploration, even here in the north, where we have the most attractive mining potential in Canada. Alberta, on the other hand, has the highest government policy rating with mining companies. These companies believe policies of the Alberta government encourage new exploration and are also considered neutral. It also indicated that anti-business policy climates deter investment and reduce economic growth.

Mr. Speaker, how attractive is the NWT for investment by the Canadian mining companies? When we take into account, our government policies and our mineral potential, the NWT is sitting second from the bottom of the heap. What can be learned from this, Mr. Speaker? I suggest that we look seriously at our current government policies and regulations with the intent of simplifying the process mining companies must go through in the north. We must also eliminate the uncertainty that companies have about investing in exploration and any future investment prospects by providing clear and solid means in which we can allow these private companies to grow and prosper in the north. We must act now if we are to hold our position with mining companies, who see the potential of the north as the best in the country. It is no good, Mr. Speaker, if we have the resources which we know provide a positive outcome for our economy if we cannot or will not provide the means to access them. Mr. Speaker, my comments sound like I am critical of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Not so. The Government of the Northwest Territories does not have responsibility... Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? Mr. Henry, you have unanimous consent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you, colleagues. The Government of the Northwest Territories does not have the responsibility for mining in the Northwest Territories. My comments are meant for the ears of the federal politicians, particularly, Minister Stewart, the Minister responsible for Indian and Inuit Affairs. You need to work more with the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Members' statements. Mr. Roland.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to address a concern of the recently formed community services board. As you may recall, the community services board was established as a result of our community empowerment initiative. The board will enable the Dogrib Treaty 11 Communities to work together to govern education, health and social services. The board will give the Dogrib people an opportunity to identify their own priorities and integrate the delivery of services in communities in a manner which reflects Dogrib culture and traditions. Mr. Speaker, this board was formed on May 22, 1997, with the territorial government and the Dogrib Treaty 11 Chiefs signing the agreement, which was pursuant to the Territorial Hospital Insurance Act. We all felt that this would be the start of a new and different approach to serving our people. We thought it would give us the legal ability to integrate programs and to set priorities among programs. However, this is not the case. We need to draft legislation specifically for the CSB. Mr. Speaker, I currently have draft legislation that I am preparing to bring to this House as a Private Members Bill. However, after some thought and advisement I have decided to wait and see what the Departments of Education, Culture and Employment and Health and Social Services are doing to ensure this board will be able to do what it was originally intended to provide. Mr. Speaker, I will, later on today, be asking the departments about this in order to facilitate this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Mr. Speaker, while we wait to see who blinks, I would like to make a statement on the proposed road to resources and diamond mines, which currently uses the Ingraham Trail. Mr. Speaker, this road was originally used to supply Echo Bay Mines, but recently with the addition of diamond mine exploration, there has been a substantial increase in the amount of usage, with trucks constantly going back and forth on the Ingraham Trail. I have many constituents who live on the Ingraham Trail. I also have constituents who use the Ingraham Trail to get to their traditional hunting areas. These constituents are concerned with first of all, the road being narrow. There are a lot of curves and it is dangerous when you meet a large truck. This has already caused accidents and there have been some fuel spills, possibly damage to the environment. There is also concern that the road is being damaged. Last year, Mr. Speaker, I asked the Premier about the road to resources, if we would be pursuing that. He indicated that he was looking at it. I also asked about the possibility of having the mines to actually pay for using the roads. Perhaps, a toll per truck. I know that we are currently doing an environmental study into the issue as well, as other transportation routes. However, that is looking toward the future. My constituents need to know what is happening now if there is legitimacy to their concerns. At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will ask the Minister questions in this area. Thank you.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, from time to time I have received complaints from clients or others who have applied for income support and were turned down. Mr. Speaker, I am not encouraging anyone to depend on the Income Support Program for assistance unless other options are exhausted. I am merely and respectfully endeavouring to find out what the criteria are with respect to the Income Support Program. I am sure some of my honourable colleagues have received such complaints from Members of the communities as I have reported. Mr. Speaker, I am never comfortable in telling bureaucracy what to do. I have never done that and I am not about to begin to do so. In order for the complainants to have the answer, instead of going through MLAs, I am suggesting that the Department of Health and Social Services endeavour to create a handbook outlining what the criteria are for those people who are legible or ineligible to receive income support assistance. Mr. Speaker, such a handbook should be translated into other languages to make it easier for people to understand. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to bring to the attention of the House and in particular, the Minister of Health and Social Services and the Baffin Regional Health Board the very severe shortage of nurses in Clyde River. There are not enough nurses in my home community, Mr. Speaker. We have a year round population of 780 and there are only two nurses in town. During certain times of the year the population may increase substantially. Throughout various times of the year, we have visitors, tourists and transient construction workers. Just based on the year round population alone, we have only one nurse for every 400 people. This ratio is unacceptable and unsafe, Mr. Speaker. The shortage of nursing staff compromises the health and safety of the residents of Clyde River. It also puts undue stress on the nursing staff. Mr. Speaker, imagine trying to take care of a community of 800 with only one other qualified person to help you. Importantly, I cannot imagine what may happen if one or both of the nurses are sick or on leave. We need more nurses in Clyde River, Mr. Speaker. This is clear. It should not be a matter of funding. The only issue here is the health of my community. The nursing staff is strained and they need help now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to recognize heroic events that happened in the community of Resolute. I will read a brief synopsis of events regarding the rescue of Emily Ulayuruluk and Connie Pudluk who are the grandchildren of my predecessor Ludy Pudluk and Lallie Pudluk. On September 19, 1997, between 7:30 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., two girls, Connie Pudluk and Emily Ulayuruluk, were snowmobiling on the ice near Resolute Bay. The ice was thin and the snowmobile went through the ice. This left the two girls in the water between 10 and 30 minutes. The water was extremely cold and the air temperature was below zero degrees.

Matthew Nungaq, resident of Resolute Bay, was driving by the area and his daughter noted the two girls in the water. They drove to get help and located Nathaniel Kalluk. Nathaniel took his boat to the scene and then went out across the ice in the boat to get the girls. He pulled both girls into the boat then came back to shore. Nathaniel was alone in the boat when he went to get the girls. The boat had to be pushed across the ice and then into the water to break through the ice. The girls were taken to the nursing station after they came off the boat. They had to be supported because of the numbness. They were all right, to date. I would recommend that the people who rescued these two girls be awarded with an Award of Bravery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement today, I would like to make some comments on the issue of long distance competition as it relates to services in smaller communities. Across Canada, there has been a reduction in long distance costs where competition has been allowed to take place. No one can argue against cost reductions. We would all like to see a reduction in our phone bills. However, we have a unique situation in the north. Long distance service is profitable in some areas but is not in others, depending on population and remoteness.

NorthwesTel has made the point that in a competitive environment, if revenues are significantly reduced in larger centres, services to small communities will be jeopardized. This causes me great concern. To give you a real example of what the implications may be if a multinational corporation like Sprint or others were to introduce very low cost long distance service to one of our larger communities such as Hay River, phone services could either be cut off and non-profit making communities or prices could go through the roof and become unreachable for residents in these small communities. This is because revenue from larger communities subsidize the cost of providing service in smaller communities.

Mr. Speaker, the other day it caused me concern to hear the Member for Hay River call for immediate and open competition in this area, without regard to the implications this may have for smaller communities. We need to recognize; however, that one of the reasons these larger centres are able to make long distance services profitable is because they are regional or territorial centres that service the small communities. To be more specific in this example, in Hay River, the Power Corporation, NTCL, territorial correctional facilities and the liquor board are based in Hay River and it serves smaller communities. Mr. Speaker, I ask what is the message then if unmanaged competition may well mean the loss of phone services for smaller communities like Pelly Bay, Hall Beach, Grise Fiord, Clyde river, Kimmirut, Chesterfield Inlet, Paulatuk and other communities in both the east and west? I believe that we must be careful in sending the message that we do not want savings at any cost. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Baffin South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? Mr. Arlooktoo, you have unanimous consent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you, colleagues. Due to our geographical situation, cross-subsidies are a part of life in the north, we have it in fuel subsidies, power subsidies, housing subsidies and many other programs. It is part of our reality in living in the north. If we live in a large community, we are sometimes frustrated that we do not benefit from the cost-savings our population should provide, but then we have to remind ourselves that we also benefit from serving smaller communities because government and industry institutions are based in larger communities. Finally, Mr. Speaker, the proposal to have a national fund for high-cost regions will benefit greatly all of the communities of the north because we, more than any other jurisdiction in Canada, understand how our geography and population can benefit both large and small communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the 795 Squadron of the Royal Canadian Air Cadets in Iqaluit, held their annual inspection recently. The 27 out of 28 cadets that participated are sponsored by the Royal Canadian Legion in Iqaluit. Mr. Speaker, the principal aim of the cadets is to teach leadership, citizenship, physical fitness and interests in aeronautics. Two weeks ago we were honoured by having members of the Army Air and Navy Cadets Service Air as Pages in this Assembly. One of those cadets was Sergeant Edward Arreak from Iqaluit. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the 795 Squadron of Iqaluit, its Captain John Graine, and the Royal Canadian Legion, who have continued their sponsorship and long affiliation with this, and other community-minded causes at home in Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize the mayor of Broughton Island, Lootie Toomasie, and beside him is his deputy mayor, Kooveeyok Natsiapik. Thank you.

--Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko.

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to recognize the mayor of Broughton Island, Lootie Toomasie and deputy mayor, Kooveeyok Natsiapik, and also John Quirke, future Clerk for Nunavut. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng. Mr. Speaker, I never try to get involved in the local politics of a small community or the local resolution of problems, providing the solutions to problems. Many times I am asked to do such, and there are times when I am unable to do so or to provide any solution at all. As I indicated in my Member's statement, there are times when I am approached by individuals in communities regarding social assistance or income support assistance criteria. In many cases, I am unable to provide answers. My question to the honourable Minister is, is there a handbook available in the communities to learn what the criteria are with respect to Income Support Programs? Thank you.

Thank you. The question is more appropriate to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent. Mr. Dent.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

As I indicated in my Member's statement, in many cases we are approached about the conveyance, about the problem in the community by the individuals. Will the Minister endeavour to ensure that there is, in fact, a booklet translated into the local language outlining what the criteria are so that the client or potential client will know exactly what he is getting into? Thank you.

Mr. Dent.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for the positive response. Will the Minister encourage the staff at the community level to communicate with the clients or potential clients what is expected of them if they want to receive social assistance or if they are turned away, explain exactly what is in the system? Thank you.

Mr. Dent.

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate my honourable colleague's question, and it was asked by a number of other Members earlier in the Session. Let me say again. We have put what we consider to be a fair and final settlement before the bargaining unit for the UNW. Right now, the matter is in the hands of the UNW and its employees. If they wish to go to an arbitrator or to a mediator, I have already said yesterday, and I will say again today, we are prepared to go to that process. The next step is in the hands of the membership and the UNW. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. They are well aware that we are prepared to take that next step. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Todd.

The union is as equally knowledgeable of the process, Mr. Speaker, as I am. As I said, and will say again today, we are prepared to go to mediation if that is what they request, but it has to come from them. We have laid the final settlement on the table which we think is fair. It is now really up to the UNW executive to determine what the next step is. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Todd.

All of the negotiators of the UNW (inaudible)

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for Transportation. Mr. Speaker, in my statement earlier today, I had indicated that constituents had raised concerns about the Ingraham Trail, the fact that it is narrow and windy and that there have been accidents due to the increased traffic from large trucks going to the mines. My question to the Minister is, did the large truck actually cause

damage to the existing road of the Ingraham Trail? Thank you.

The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the short answer is the normal winter traffic when the road is frozen solid does not directly cause the road to fail. The majority of road failure is associated with environmental factors, springtime and so forth. What we do is, during spring time we put road beds on the Ingraham Trail along with other highway systems to ensure any heavy truck traffic does not damage the roads during the sensitive time of the year when the roads are thawing out. The department finds out, generally, not only on the Ingraham Trail but other highways. We dig, take them up and we examine them during the normal winter traffic when the road is frozen solid, so there is no damage to the road. Usually damage happens just when things start to thaw out. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the course of the last year, there have been a few accidents on that road, fuel spills. Can the Minister indicate whether there has been extensive environmental damage that has occurred due to these spills? Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

There have been some specific incidents on the Ingraham Trail, highway and on the winter roads during the winter. However, all of the environmental concerns have been addressed. We do this in coordination with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Other concerns that have been raised are the narrowness, windiness and the many curves on that road, which causes accidents and causes dangerous driving to occur. It is pretty hard to pass those huge trucks sometimes when you meet them. Does the Minister know if there is going to be some work done soon to alleviate the narrowness and the many curves on that road? Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department had received approval from this Legislative Assembly during the 1998-99 main estimates to begin highway improvements on the Ingraham Trail. About $500,000 was approved for this fiscal year. Surveys will also continue to prepare for work in future years. Mr. Speaker, construction on the specific section of highway to improve the alignment and to deal with the narrowness of the road at kilometre 6.5 will begin in the fall. There is work planned on the Ingraham Trail this summer and fall. Also, normal maintenance will continue and proceed over the summer in trying to deal with visibility. We are going to be clearing brush to improve visibility. There are some road surface repairs scheduled in the normal course of operations and maintenance. Dust control material will be applied on the gravel surface. These are the different programs and plans that the department has for the Ingraham Trail. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Mr. Speaker, I know that the residents of Ingraham Trail, as well as my other constituents, have similar types of concerns and obviously are a lot more knowledgable on what happens there. Would the Minister commit to meeting with some representatives of Ingraham Trail, along with, perhaps, some of his senior officials, so his ministry can indicate what will be happening to alleviate some of the concerns that are being expressed? Thank you.

Mr. Antoine.

Certainly, Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to meet with the honourable Member, his constituents and the residents along the Ingraham Trail. I just want to add that departmental officials have met with the residents of Ingraham Trail regularly over the past years to discuss a variety of highway issues. Senior departmental officials are available as well to meet with the residents to discuss plans and other concerns. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

The Minister of Finance, do you want to respond?

I do not understand the question. Sorry, Mr. Speaker.

Your first question, Mr. Ootes.

I do not know if the Minister can respond. As far as the delay tactic goes, it is not within his responsibility. The question is rhetorical. Mr. Todd.

I simply do not understand the question. I wonder if my colleague could perhaps elaborate. Is this something that came about from the discussions in the speaking notes that Ms. Simpson alluded to today at noon which she organized and coordinated, and if it is, could he be perhaps more explicit, so I can give an appropriate answer? I honestly do not know what my honourable colleague is saying.

Mr. Ootes

Mr. Todd.

First of all, Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to point out to my honourable colleague and to my other colleagues that the UNW's issue with respect to it now claiming that the Hay Plan Evaluation System is not gender neutral is contradictory to the position they took at collective bargaining. During collective bargaining, they conceded that the Hay Plan Evaluation System is gender neutral. Given that is what they conceded, what I was saying in previous questions was, if there are problems within the Hay Plan Evaluation System and we agree it is gender neutral, that there may be some glitches within it, then let us work it out as the two parties responsible for doing that, UNW and the government.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I had just indicated in my earlier response that the union in their collective bargaining had conceded that the Hay Job Evaluation is gender neutral.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Mr. Todd.

As Mr. Ootes said, there are always two sides to a story. He has obviously chosen to side with one side. I am telling you categorically that at the collective bargaining, the UNW said that the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System was gender neutral, and because it is gender neutral, why do I need a third party to determine whether it is gender neutral. They

conceded that. What we need is for the partnerships, the people who are responsible, the UNW bargaining group and the management team from the GNWT to work through the difficulties that the UNW should identify within the Hay Plan Evaluation System. Pardon me, the answer is still no. It will not go to third party at this time.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.