Thank you. Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to provide all Members with a brief report on the meeting of Housing Ministers this week. On Monday, March 14, I attended a meeting in Regina of the special ministerial sub-committee on housing options for northern, remote and rural areas. The purpose of the committee is to examine housing conditions and the extreme depth of need of residents living in these areas across the country. The committee will provide recommendations to all federal, provincial and territorial Housing Ministers on how these needs are best met and funded.

Six provinces and territories plus the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation are participating on the committee. At Monday's meeting, Ministers discussed:

- The severe housing conditions and housing shortfall being experienced by residents living in northern, remote or rural parts of Canada;

- Options and approaches to addressing the needs of these residents as a priority; and,

- Methods of providing assistance to these people which will allow for high levels of community and client involvement, local employment and training and, at the same time, provide assistance at the lowest cost per unit possible.

Based upon the discussions at the Ministers' meeting, officials will be preparing a report and recommendations by early April for review by Ministers participating on the sub-committee and for subsequent discussions and agreement by all jurisdictions.

I am encouraged to see that several other jurisdictions share our concern that the desperate housing conditions of people living in the north need to be addressed immediately. I will keep all Members informed as the work of this sub-committee proceeds. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the Nunavut Caucus, I would like to congratulate Mr. Pauloosie Keyootak on his election Monday as president of the Baffin Regional Inuit Association.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, Mr. Keyootak has served the Inuit of Baffin Island for the last 12 years. I'm pleased he was able to retain his position as president of the important Inuit organization in the largest region of Nunavut. I would also like to congratulate the other candidates who also ran in the election for their participation in the political life of the Baffin region. I, and my colleagues in the Nunavut Caucus, thank Mr. Keyootak for his help in the past and look forward to continuing our long collaboration with him. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, would like to congratulate Mr. Pauloosie Keyootak on his re-election as president of the Baffin Regional Inuit Association. I also want to make special mention of the twelve other candidates who were on the ballots. Even though they did not win, the fact that they made themselves available for public service is greatly appreciated. I am happy to see that the Inuit of the region were given such a high number of candidates to choose from for the president. Once again, congratulations to Pauloosie Keyootak and I encourage the others to keep working to keep the Baffin Inuit Association strong. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. In late 1990, the 11th Legislative Assembly passed two very important bills. The first bill amended the Environmental Protection Act. The Minister of Renewable Resources at the time said that the purpose of the bill was to amend the act in such a manner that it was enforceable. The bill included such measures as raising maximum fines for discharging contaminants to $1 million for repeated offenses.

Later in the same session, the Assembly passed a private Member's bill, the Environmental Rights Act. This act allowed private citizens to lay complaints about environmental damage with the Minister of Renewable Resources and the Minister would then be required to act on the complaint.

Together, these two acts gave the Northwest Territories the appearance of having some of the best laws in the country for protecting our environment. But, I have to question this image. Soon after the Environmental Rights Act was passed, two Yellowknife residents laid a complaint related to emissions of sulphur dioxide and arsenic from Giant Mine. The Department of Renewable Resources completed their report which showed the level of emissions. Specifically, some of the tests in 1992 showed that northerly winds would raise sulphur dioxide levels in downtown Yellowknife above the limits for desirable and acceptable levels according to the Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

While the environmental health directorate in Ottawa does not feel that these levels represent an imminent health hazard, they do have an adverse effect on northerners' health. As the directorate stated, "These levels of sulphur dioxide can lead to mild reversible respiratory effects in sensitive individuals, particularly asthmatics." I know of at least one Yellowknife resident who suffers severe asthma attacks when she is downtown and the winds blow from the north.

Also, arsenic is a chemical which is known to cause cancer and the directorate said that, "Exposure to arsenic should be reduced to the lowest possible level." It appears that Royal Oak Mines are not interested in voluntarily reducing their emissions. After the department's report was released last year, Royal Oak disputed the figures in the report and stated that installing cleaning technology in their roasting stacks would be too expensive.

Madam Speaker, I'm running out of time and I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statements.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The great step forward in environmental legislation that was seen in this House in 1990 will be a wasted step if the government does not use legislation to protect our environment. Why say we will fine offenders up to $1 million if we don't even lay charges. For that matter, how can we lay charges when the government has not developed enforceable guidelines and limits?

Polluters in the north will continue to pollute as long as they think nothing will happen to them. The whole point of these acts is to make sure that something will happen to polluters who don't clean up their act. I suggest that as long as the government does not work with industry, environmental experts, health professionals and the scientific community to develop clear, enforceable, regulatory guidelines, the Environmental Protection Act and the Environmental Rights Act are not worth the paper they are printed on. I urge the Minister of Renewable Resources to use these laws the way they were intended, to persuade polluters to reduce or eliminate their pollution, and I urge him to do that in this case by immediately developing specific guidelines on sulphur dioxide and arsenic emissions. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Over the past few weeks, we have heard speeches from both sides of the House on how we, as a government, must take control of the mineral resources of the Northwest Territories from the federal government if we are to have any hope of realizing any economic benefits from the diamond trade.

Madam Speaker, this government must ensure that economic benefits remain in the north as much as possible. However, Madam Speaker, having some say in the mineral policy in the Northwest Territories and ensuring economic spin-offs for residents are not the only responsibilities we, as a government, have. We must ensure, Madam Speaker, that the land is not scarred forever because of the exploration of minerals. We must make sure that caribou migration is not adversely affected. We must make sure, Madam Speaker, that this great land we call home is left as close as possible to its natural state for the future generations.

Madam Speaker, in this sluggish economy I realize that many people are very excited about the potential economic miracles about to occur in the Northwest Territories in diamonds. But I urge the Members and the government to temper this excitement with a little bit of foresight. Long after the diamonds are gone from the ground, people will still want to use the land to hunt and fish. We, as a government, must remember one important thing: this is our responsibility to ensure the maximum economic benefits for the development of such as the diamond play, as it is our responsibility to ensure that the land remains as close to being undisturbed as possible. We also have a responsibility for future generations. We have to make sure that the proper environmental reviews and studies are done. Mahsi cho, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak about an issue dear to all our hearts: territorial elections. Madam Speaker, historically NWT Legislative Assembly elections have taken place every four years during the fall season. This 12th Assembly was elected October of 1991; the 11th Assembly, October of 1987; 10th Assembly, November of 1983, and so on.

However, on April 1, 1999, there will be the creation of two new territories as a result of the enactment of the Nunavut Act. This means that an election for the Members of the Nunavut Assembly must take place before April 1 of 1999. Ideally, the Members for the new western territory should also be elected around the same time.

Based on past historic election time frames, this Assembly would dissolve in the summer of 1995 with an October 1995 election of the 13th Assembly. This would leave the 13th Assembly with a maximum mandate between October of 1995 and March of 1999, of less than three and a half years.

Madam Speaker, as we all know, the next Assembly will have the monumental and historical task of working out the fiscal and administrative framework to support two new territories in 1999, over and above the already difficult task of governing our existing territory with limited and diminishing financial resources. In recognizing the heavy workload required of the next Legislative Assembly and their reduced term as a result of the requirement for at least one and probably two Assemblies to be established by April of 1999, I wish for Members of the 12th Assembly to consider holding a spring 1995 general election in order to allow a full four year term for the next and last NWT Legislative Assembly as we know it.

Madam Speaker, this Assembly has the authority to decide on an election date. I hope we can seriously consider using our authority for the benefit of all northerners by allowing the next Assembly a full four year mandate in order to ensure the fair and smooth establishment of two new territories in 1999. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Madam Speaker, I'm in receipt of information from Ecology North. On March 14, Mr. O'Brien, director of Ecology North, received a letter from the law firm, Fasken Campbell and Godfrey, indicating they have been retained by De Beers to inform Ecology North that its public showing of the film The Diamond Empire on March 15 could result in a claim for damages from De Beers.

The company claims the film contains material which is a subject of dispute between De Beers and the British Broadcasting Corporation. They claim it relies on inaccurate, incorrect and false research, often supplied by disruptive and dubious sources. It alleges by defamatory inference that De Beers uses disreputable and illegal methods to make their control over the diamond market. It alleges by De Beers conduct during World War II denied the United States access to required quantities of diamonds for its war efforts, it alleges that De Beers exerted pressure to effect the closure of a diamond mine in Arkansas for improper purposes, and it goes on with other claims against this particular film, The Diamond Empire.

Madam Speaker, this film has already been broadcast on our local cable network. Although the information from De Beers claims that this film has not been shown in Britain and in Australia because of the concerns expressed by De Beers, and the fact that anybody who shows it would be liable for damages, it seems now that since this information is on the record and in the local newspaper, and since I've made this statement about concerns in the House, that northern people being wise and not country bumpkins will look at it and make up their own mind. We have all had a history of, in fact, being quite immune to propaganda. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to express my congratulations to two Northwest Territories curling teams which will be representing the Yukon and Northwest Territories at the Canadian junior Pepsi curling championships in Truro, Nova Scotia.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, on Saturday, March 19 and throughout the following week, these teams will be curling against other provincial champions. The Canadian champions will be decided next Saturday on March 26. These champions will represent Canada at the world junior curling championships in Bulgaria some time in April.

Madam Speaker, I have a lot of personal interest in this Canadian national event because three of my children will be participating.

---Applause

My son, Kevin, is the skip of the junior men's team and he is supported by his brother Jamie, and Mark and Kevin Whitehead. George Gibson is the coach of this team. Tara Hamer is skipping the junior women's team and she is supported by my daughter Kerry, who will be playing third. The team also includes Kim Barraclough and Sheena Yakeleya. This team is coached by Ernie Comerford.

Madam Speaker, history will be made at these junior nationals because I believe it is the first time that three curlers from one family are going to be participating in this event. So at this time I would like to advise this House and my constituents in Inuvik that I will be away from March 17 to March 25. My wife and I will be in Truro, will be cheering loudly and providing support to these curlers. So please join me in congratulating these Northwest Territories champions and wishing them well next week. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, later today I will be tabling a letter written by the chairperson of the Municipal Advisory Committee for the town of Iqaluit, Mr. Robert L. Hanson, dated March 8, to the Honourable Silas Arngna'naaq, Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs recommending that municipal elections be held as early as May, 1994, before most people start leaving for holidays during the spring and summer months. Mr. Hanson also noted that this will be the same month that an election for the Inuit Tapirisat's presidency is taking place. The letter also notes that by that date the current administration should have had the opportunity to review municipal programs and evaluate senior staff as approved by the committee. Further, the committee members recommend in their letter that Robin Beaumont, municipal administrator, remain in Iqaluit until the municipal election is over and a senior administrative officer has been appointed by the elected council to ensure a smooth transition.

Madam Speaker, I am also aware that the municipal administrator, appointed by the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, who also advises the Minister and works closely with the Municipal Advisory Committee, is advising that there yet remains to be a great deal of work done before a municipal inspection team can be sent in. I am impressed with the capabilities of the members of the Municipal Advisory Committee and Mr. Beaumont. I am sure they can do what is necessary to be done before an election is called in May if they are given encouragement to do so by the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Mr. Beaumont has correctly advised the Municipal Advisory Committee that the sole criteria for calling new municipal elections is the favourable opinion of the Minister of MACA, though the Minister has already indicated to this House that he will be relying on advice from the Municipal Advisory Committee and the municipal administrator, and hopefully from the MLA for Iqaluit.

It is now over four months since the elected council was dissolved. Clear advice has now been received from the Municipal Advisory Committee. Later, I will be following up with the Minister to ensure that municipal elections are called sooner rather than later in Iqaluit. Qujannamiik.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. For a number of years there have been concerns raised about the poor level of coordination between territorial and federal programs. It has resulted in people wishing to access funding being directed from program to program. There have also been problems with the Economic Development officers, themselves, being unaware of these programs, again causing confusion for clients wishing to access some of these programs. I would like to ask the Minister what he has done to ensure better coordination between the many economic development programs that are available to make it easier for individuals and northern businesses wishing to access these programs?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I didn't understand the question. What programs? Does he mean the programs within the department, federal government programs, programs that relate to EDA or ED&T? I'm more confused with the question than I am with the answer.

Thank you. Since it is not the chair's responsibility to interpret questions, I'll ask Mr. Ng if he could possibly repeat his question and request the Minister to carefully pay attention. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is very apparent, Madam Speaker, from the Minister himself being confused that there is a problem out there with the public being confused.

---Laughter

---Applause

My question to the Minister, Madam Speaker, is, there are federal government programs, there are territorial government programs and his department steers individuals wishing to access those programs.

How is that coordinated to determine which program that individual would be directed toward? That's the question. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Touche, I guess. Madam Speaker, as the honourable Member knows, with our new approach to the department in terms of giving regional authority to the superintendents, ultimately it trickles down to the community economic development officers, and we're hopeful that will bring about more decision-making at the regional and community level.

The authority that we're giving to the regions is also for the EDA program which I think there has been considerable complaint about. We're confident that the coordinated approach of accessing programs outside of the territorial jurisdiction is there with the new responsibilities we've given to the regions and will ultimately give to the economic development officers at the community level. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand that his department has addressed some of the programs internally regarding where individuals can access these programs. But, my question is in relation to the federal programs. We have the community economic development organizations up in our areas right now. Does his department interrelate with that federally-funded agency to coordinate these programs? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Now I understand, Madam Speaker, thank you.

---Applause

It takes a while, but the penny dropped. Anyway, there are ongoing relationships between the regional superintendents and the CEDO operations that I believe the honourable Member is talking about. In his area there is a bit of a history of an environment of less cooperation in the past. I'm reasonably confident in my recent discussions with that particular group and my previous discussions of some months ago in Spence Bay, that we've resolved some of the personality and process differences. Now, there's a fairly reasonable working relationship between these two groups.

The other area of concern that I know has been expressed by others is about accessing federal CAEDS money. We haven't had much success in that area but we are working very aggressively to get the department responsible for CAEDS to recognize that we need a closer and more productive relationship in accessing these dollars as well. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Thank you. I would like to ask the Minister, then, would he say that the economic development officers in the regions have an understanding of the programs that are available and how these programs work together? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I think there's an understanding in most regions, the way I understand it anyway. There are a number of programs outside of the department and if you cooperate and coordinate, you can get significantly more leverage. For example, another program that is working very well in the regions is the community futures program. There is one in the Baffin, Keewatin and in the Inuvik and Hay River area. It is my understanding that program works very closely with the department in trying to put lending and grant programs together.

Certainly, if there are some specific problems with respect to the honourable Member's region, I would only be too happy to address them. But, the new senior management team that determines policy and direction are the superintendents. They and the deputy minister are closer to the field than anybody. They are very much aware of the need for us to look outside of the limited resources we've got to bring about greater economic growth in these communities. I'm comfortable that they are aware. If there are specific instances, I would be only too happy to address them. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. The heart and soul of the territories' economy are the small businesses. Small grants which help buy a new sewing machine, a kicker or keep one family self-reliant and off social assistance are key to our economic development. The Minister has indicated that this program is in the hands of the regional staff, making them more receptive to local needs. What percentage of the total grant pool for Economic Development is devoted to small business grants?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I stand to be corrected, but that is the $5,000 grant program that we've talked about, which, as the honourable Member has said, is to assist the small entrepreneur if he's fishing or other small business. I believe it is around the $900,000 or $1 million mark at this time. I could get the actual number for him later this week, but I believe it is in that range.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I find this question almost hypocritical. The reality is, whether the honourable Member likes it or not, the policies of this department were determined by previous Cabinets and previous MLAs on the principle of the extent of unemployment and the need in Level II and III communities for some economic activity.

---Applause

They don't have the ability, as they do in a community like Yellowknife, where the business community is fundamentally supported by the people who come in from the communities of the Northwest Territories. Where would the hotel industry be in Yellowknife if it weren't for northerners coming to Yellowknife? Where would the taxi business be? The Level II and III communities, in my eyes and in my department's eyes, are the priority and I intend to stay the course. Thank you.

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I personally never discriminate in relationship to race when it comes to the department. What we are discriminating on, if anything, is unemployment. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I believe it is, but again I could stand to be corrected. I would like to point out that the focus of the department in some of its programs is in level II and III communities. That's based on policy and it was agreed to by previous governments.

I would also like to point out, it would be interesting to see...If the diamond exploration took place, for example, in the Northwest Territories, what community would benefit the most? What economic benefits would be derived to Rankin Inlet, Whale Cove or Chesterfield Inlet? Where would the net effects come? That's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to find a way and means to support those communities that need the support the most. Thank you.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I'd be foolish to say no. Of course we will look at it. The reality is that some of the programs that we have can be accessed by level I communities. The business loan fund can be accessed, some of the grant systems can be accessed, CAEDS funding can be accessed, EDA money can be accessed. What programs is the honourable Member talking about? All I'm saying is, the emphasis historically has been on the level II and III communities. Small businesses can access the Government of the Northwest Territories business loan fund, CAEDS program, EDA. But, yes, we will review it and let the honourable Member know what conclusions we come to.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, as well. During the Fourth Session of this Assembly, the Minister announced that there is restructuring of his department. What this did was place more authority in the hands of the regional staff. However, with every change in the way programs are being delivered, there is a need to train and refresh the frontline workers. I would like to ask the Minister, what has the department done to assist the regional staff to carry out their expanded roles? Mahsi.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

There are several things we've done or that we're doing. We are providing, for example, at the regional level more resource staff that we're taking out of headquarters and putting into the regions to assist in the new expanded financial authority as it relates to loans, grants, et cetera. The regional superintendents are now meeting -- because I've insisted upon it -- every three months to make sure that the changes that we've put into place are going into place. During these meetings, it's like a training seminar, I think, and we're moving fairly aggressively to bring the superintendents and ultimately their staff up to date on the programs, the money we have and the new programs that are coming. So there are certain steps taking place. We are adding some new resources. And I'm reasonably confident that in the next six months we're going to be able to demonstrate a more effective way of delivering the programs than we have in the past. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. The other people who should be aware of the new regional emphasis of the changes in the department are the public and the business community. I would like to ask the Minister, how has the department informed the users about the changes to the department? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I don't think we've had any formal campaign to advise the business community and others, the public at large, about the changes we've made. I guess that through announcements such as in the Legislative Assembly and through Minister's statements we've tried to communicate it. It may, in fact, be a weak part in this strategy, and I would certainly be prepared to look at it. But in terms of formal advisement, I don't think we've done anything with respect to that. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you. This change has happened during the last couple of months. Has there been any change in the level of interest expressed in the programs since the restructuring took place? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I did recently travel through Iqaluit on my way back from Ottawa, last week. I met with the superintendent of Economic Development, Ms. Katherine Trumper. Ms. Trumper has had a long history with the department. She is the superintendent there. I asked her how she felt the new programs and new authority were going, from a bureaucratic perspective. She indicated to me that she thought morale was at its highest at the regional level, that there was a significant increase in interest, certainly from Baffin Island, and that she felt that with the new financial authority she had been given allowed her the ability to move much more quickly in responding to the clients.

It appeared -- and it's early to tell because we've only put this thing in place in mid-December -- that client satisfaction which was a unique thing in Economic Development, appeared to be on the rise. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I'm doing this all from lack of looking at the notes, but I could provide the honourable Member with a complete list if he wants. For example, Fort Resolution Sawmill would be one. I would have to check with my colleague, but I believe the Fort McPherson Canvas is another one. The fish and meat processing plant in my own constituency of Rankin Inlet was originally run by the government many years ago. The arts and crafts centre in Pangnirtung is another one. I could give the honourable Member a complete list, but at this point I don't know whether that would satisfy him or not. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Speaking personally, as the Minister responsible, it is my belief that the NWT Development Corporation was originally set up with the principles of trying to create employment in the areas where there was high unemployment. It was recognized early on that one of the failures in a number of businesses in level II and III communities is the inability for them to access capital and to service the debt. The principles of the Development Corporation are to provide the capital infrastructure on the short-term to avoid that heavy administration expense of interest payments and debt, and once we get it viable, to transfer it over to an independent group. That is my understanding, in a nutshell.

Originally there was a need to create some economic activity that would create jobs. There was a recognition that these jobs would have to be subsidized, whether it was in front-end capital expenditure or in short-term job expenditure. In other words, "x" amount of dollars for "x" amount of jobs. The overall goal is if we are successful in making the operation viable, we would be able to transfer that back to a Development Corporation in a community or some individual entrepreneurs. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

In an ideal world, we would like to get away from subsidies. I think it was recognized and is currently recognized by the federal government. What choice do we have? Do we destine people to be recipients of social assistance or do we find them ways and means in which to make people become productive citizens? It costs some dollars on the front-end, as I indicated earlier, in perhaps subsidizing some of the operations and maintenance costs and the capital costs. I think it was recognized that some of these enterprises may not be viable. Part of our policy is we are prepared to subsidize wages to a certain level because it is better than having people on social assistance. As I said, in a perfect world, you would like to think we can move forward and make these operations viable. But a perfect world is when we all die and go to heaven. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

(Microphone turned off)

---Applause

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

When it was originally put in place, it had a $10 million budget. Like all other governments across the country, we are under fiscal restraint. I have recognized that and the Finance Minister has my cooperation in trying to find ways and means in which to keep our fiscal position in reasonable order. Therefore, we have had to reduce the amount of money that we have been accustomed to accessing. This past year we had $6 million in investment revenue in 1993-94. In 1994-95 it goes down to $5 million. At the present time, our accessibility of investment capital is very limited because of the reduction in the overall capital requirements of the corporation. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

There is that old saying, "You can't see the bushes for the trees." The current commitments the Development Corporation board of directors have made leaves them very little flexibility in looking at any additional new ventures that have come forward. My understanding is the Development Corporation has somewhere in the region of $18 million worth of proposals on the desk. But, at the present time, the fiscal position of the Development Corporation is minimal.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I don't want to be misunderstood. There are commitments on the table that the independent board of directors reviews and makes decisions on. I am told the financial commitments they have will eat up the overall budget that we have been provided through the capital process. If we could get more money we would be able to do more things. But we are all under the fiscal restraint gun and the Development Corporation is under the same gun. It is trying to do more with less. It does have proposals on the table that will eat up the majority of the current funding that is allocated to this Development Corporation. I don't have the specific number that is left over at this time. I am not trying to evade the question. I am just saying the board of directors have approved projects within the fiscal constraints they are operating under.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, who is responsible for the NWT Development Corporation. Within the last two years, the NWT Development Corporation bought the Patterson Sawmill in Hay River for approximately $1.4 million to $1.7 million. At that time, Members were told the number of board feet that was required to make this sawmill viable would come from the Cameron Hills area. But now trees have been taken from the Deh Cho region. The people in the Liard area are now in a logging pilot project and may want to develop their own business eventually. What impact will the Development Corporation's large investment in the Patterson Sawmill have on any investment assistance requests from Liard businesses for logging operations? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

The short answer is none. As the honourable Member has indicated, we are currently doing an experimental project in the Liard area. I believe the logs are going to BC because that is the closest place. This is a pilot project. Certainly, if we find -- between ourselves and the Department of Renewable Resources -- significant viable timber, we would take and intend to take a hard look at perhaps putting in a mill in that area, so we would increase the economic activity and perhaps more importantly -- to myself, anyway -- jobs for the people in that area. I would say in simple language, I don't see the Patterson Sawmill having significant impact on the Liard area. We are working very closely with that community. We are optimistic, as we must be in today's world, that if we find the appropriate type of lumber

and sales to match, that we will put some kind of facility in there that will increase job opportunities for the Liard and that area of people.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. What is the current financial and operational status of the Patterson Sawmill? Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

I know it is operating today, but I don't have the financial position at my fingertips at this time, Madam Speaker. I would certainly be willing to provide that to the honourable Member. It is currently operating right now, the same as the one in Resolution. Again, I don't have the fiscal condition of it, but I could certainly provide that information to the honourable Member. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is again to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. I would like to ask him if he could clarify for us what exactly the mandate is of the Business Credit Corporation? Thank you.