This is page numbers 1305 - 1345 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was action.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd.

Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 1305

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 91-13(4): Reform Of Health And Social Services In The NWT And Strategic Planning
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1305

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to update my honourable colleagues and the public on the reform initiatives underway in the Department of Health and Social Services. As you know, the department wishes to create a sustainable health and social services system -- one that provides the care people need in the most effective way. Change is necessary to achieve this. Together with our partners, we have committed to reform based on sound principles. The first step in this process has been to undertake a comprehensive analysis of the current system, with an assessment of the challenges and options facing us.

Earlier this year, the department contracted with a multi-disciplinary group of health and social service professionals, Med-Emerg International, to carry out this analysis and prepare a strategic directions document. The Med-Emerg consultants met with department staff, health boards, and community leaders in each region. They reviewed the wealth of information that has been gathered over the years. In their final report, the Med-Emerg consultants have raised points which form a useful base for further discussions on the strategic plan.

Some of the areas covered in the Med-Emerg report include:

- a proposed organizational framework for Health and Social Services;

- a description of the demographics of the NWT, a profile of the diseases and social conditions affecting northerners and their health;

- recommended strategies for development of the social services and the health system;

- a review of the human resource issues facing health and social services, with strategies for recruiting, developing and retaining staff;

- a formula funding approach based on the population and needs of regions and communities; and

- recommendations for improving the governance of the health and social services system.

Public discussion of the strategic planning process will be coordinated by regional health boards, with the assistance of the department. The boards will be meeting with people in their regions until mid-October. Department staff will work with them, listen to the public comments, and analyze the information gathered in those meetings with a view to having a final strategic plan ready early in the New Year. In the meantime, the department is able to continue to progress in areas that are consistent with our overall goals for improving the system. For example - the decentralization of Mackenzie Regional Health Services is substantially completed. Seven new governing bodies in the south Mackenzie will bring greater control of health and social services to the regional and community level. Public hearings on the new Child and Family Services Act are in progress and work to significantly improve the delivery of child welfare services is well underway.

Other reforms continue to be implemented in the fields of addiction services, long term care, repatriation of northern patients from southern institutions and the development of an integrated information system for the department.

A discussion paper on formula funding has been distributed to health boards. Work on the formula is expected to be completed by August. Boards and the department are working together to develop a memorandum of understanding which will clearly describe their respective roles now and into the future. The department is making organizational changes to support strategic reform and to prepare for division.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we are heading in the right direction. My staff and I look forward to working with the public and our other partners to develop a strategic plan which will set clear direction for the development of effective, responsive health and social services in both new territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 91-13(4): Reform Of Health And Social Services In The NWT And Strategic Planning
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1305

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Ministers' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Minister's Statement 92-13(4): 1996 Housing Needs Survey
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1306

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, later this afternoon I will be tabling the first of a series of reports on the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's 1996 Housing Needs Survey. This first report contains initial findings and analysis of housing needs in the Northwest Territories. I am releasing this report on the overall results for the Northwest Territories to emphasize that we still face a serious housing challenge.

Almost 25 percent of all households in the Northwest Territories have a housing need which they cannot resolve without some form of government intervention. This is two times higher than the rate for any other area in Canada. Housing need in the north has risen to 4,350 households from 3,500 in 1992. this has occurred despite this government's investment of $160 million in 1,435 homes since 1992.

Since the last Housing Needs Survey in 1992, the environment in which the corporation has worked has changed dramatically. Most important is the fact that our funding from the federal government has been significantly reduced. As you will recall, Mr. Speaker, the federal government began eliminating funding for new social housing back in 1993. Since then, the provinces and territories have not received funding for the construction of new social housing units from the federal government. Recently in Ottawa, I signed an agreement with the Honourable Diane Marleau, Minister responsible for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, to protect the funding we presently receive to operate the 6,000 social housing units currently in existence across the territories. However, the serious housing situation in the north remains and I will be bringing this issue to the attention of the new federal Minister at the earliest opportunity.

The next survey report will be published and sent to all Members in July and this report will outline individual community profiles. However, it will not just contain the number of households in need. The report will also outline possible solutions to address this need. I look forward to working with each member of this Legislative Assembly on the situation in each of their communities.

The Corporation will now be able to use the 1996 Housing Needs Survey to help each community to develop plans to help solve their specific housing needs. This will be done in close cooperation with local housing organizations and municipal governments. The Corporation will develop unique solutions to each community's problems.

Lastly, Mr. Speaker, I wish to extend my deepest thanks to all of the employees of the community housing organizations who went door-to-door doing interviews for this survey. Without their co-operation this survey would not have been possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 92-13(4): 1996 Housing Needs Survey
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1306

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Minister's Statement 93-13(4): Small Boat Safety
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1306

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, Mr. Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly. Today I would like to give an update on the Small Boat Safety Awareness Program. This will be the third year the Department of Transportation has delivered the program in the Northwest Territories on behalf of the Canadian Coast Guard.

The Small Boat Safety Awareness Program is a national public education initiative to promote small boat safety. The Department of Transportation takes a special interest in getting the program out to the communities because, year after year, the Northwest Territories has had the highest number of drowning fatalities per capita in Canada.

To gain the widest participation, the program enlists the help of federal, territorial and volunteer staff in the communities. The program's partners include the Departments of Municipal and Community Affairs; Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development; National Defence; local detachments of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as well as its Federal Enforcement Section; the Canadian Red Cross; Sports North; the NWT Canoeing Association and the City of Yellowknife Fire Department.

A training seminar is held each spring to teach the program's many partners in the proper use of boating safety equipment, safe loading limits for passengers and cargo and the use of a boat's power rating to match boat and motor properly. Over the boating season, the instructors take the boating safety message to public schools, hunters and trappers associations, boating clubs and many other interested community groups.

Once again, the target audience in 1997 will be school age children; teaching the next generation about boating safety as they grow up. This year's program will emphasize that most of our boating fatalities occur to young men between 18 and 35 years of age and, all too often, involve the use of alcohol.

In its first two years of operation, the Small Boat Safety Awareness Program has visited close to 50 communities and reached almost half of the population of the Northwest Territories. The success of the program can be seen in community interest for greater involvement and, more and more, we will see communities taking the lead in promoting water safety.

This year, the Small Boat Safety Awareness Program introduces its mascot, Pukta, the Water Safety Bear. I am proud to say that the idea of incorporating a northern mascot in the program was developed by our Department of Transportation. Pukta has since been adopted by the Canadian Coast Guard in its water safety programs across Canada. I would like to congratulate Sarah Ittinuar of Rankin Inlet for naming Pukta and winning the "Name the Mascot" contest. Pukta means "to float" in Inuktitut.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Members are with me in hoping for an accident free boating season this year. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 93-13(4): Small Boat Safety
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Minister's Statement 94-13(4): The Jim Bourque Scholarship Fund
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In memory of Jim Bourque, P.C., a scholarship fund is being established through the Arctic Institute of North America. The fund will provide annual scholarships to Canadian aboriginal students who intend to take post secondary training in education, environmental studies, traditional knowledge or telecommunications.

The fund was endowed with a contribution of $10,000 from the Government of the Northwest Territories through the Department of Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development to recognize Mr. Bourque's public service to the people and environment of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Bourque's primary goals in life were:

-to promote the wise use of resources;

-to further the involvement of aboriginal people and traditional knowledge in resource management; and

-to ensure that our children inherit a healthy environment and economy.

In pursuit of these goals, Mr. Bourque shared his knowledge and wisdom with everyone he met and we hope you will help make this fund as big as Jim's heart and soul were. Mr. Bourque worked very hard on behalf of all of the people of the Northwest Territories. He was honest, well liked and highly respected. Everyone knew him as a fair man who believed in the rights of all people; he treated everyone, from trappers to world leaders, with respect. He was also blessed with a deep love of his family.

From 1982 to 1991, he served as deputy minister of Renewable Resources and played an instrumental role in promoting the fur industry. His reputation and love of the north led to a role in constitutional development and unity efforts in the north by heading the Bourque Commission in 1993.

Among his other accomplishments, Mr. Bourque served as co-director of policy for the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples in 1994 and as President of the Metis Nation from 1980 to 1982. In recognition of his long service to his people and his country, Mr. Bourque was appointed to the Privy Council by the Governor General at the recommendation of the Prime Minister in July, 1992.

Contributions are tax deductible and may be made payable to the:

Jim Bourque Scholarship Fund

c/o Mr. Mike Robertson, Director, Arctic Institute of North America

2500 University Drive N.W.

Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4

The first scholarships will be awarded in 1998. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 94-13(4): The Jim Bourque Scholarship Fund
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 95-13(4): Arctic Energy Alliance
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as many Members know, approximately $300 million is spent in the Northwest Territories each year to supply heating fuels, electricity and water. This expenditure creates a tremendous burden on the economy of the Northwest Territories, especially where much of this cost is spent on importing fossil fuels from the south.

Today, I am pleased to announce an initiative which is expected to lead to the reduction of these costs for both this government and the people of the Northwest Territories. Earlier today, the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, the Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, and the past president of the NWT Association of Municipalities, and myself as Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, all signed a Memorandum of Understanding which will see the creation of the Arctic Energy Alliance.

The Arctic Energy Alliance is a new, joint initiative between the north's major utility customers, suppliers and regulatory services. Its purpose will be to reduce consumption and costs of energy related utilities by promoting greater co-operation and commitment to better energy management in the Northwest Territories. The alliance is a registered society, governed by a board of directors, core funded by the partner organizations and staffed with energy and communication specialists. The alliance is expected to be operational within six months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 95-13(4): Arctic Energy Alliance
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Ministers statements. Ms. Thompson.

Minister's Statement 96-13(4): NWT Outstanding Volunteer Service Award - 1997
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1307

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to announce the recipient of the NWT Outstanding Volunteer Service Award for 1997. Mr. Alan Falconer is being recognized for the contributions he has made to improving the lives of so many seniors in the NWT.

Mr. Falconer's commitment to volunteerism is as long as his 32 year residency in the north.

Mr. Falconer believes strongly in creating a community that supports seniors and is often heard saying that the pioneers of the north should be able to remain here in their old age rather than being forced out of their community in later years. The work of Al Falconer is a model of how we may become empowered to improve our lives without being dependent on government.

The presentation ceremony for Mr. Falconer will be held July 25 at the Aven Manor. In recognizing his accomplishments:

-Al's name has been inscribed on the department's NWT Outstanding Volunteer Service Award recognition plaque;

-He will receive a personal plaque;

-He will also receive a carving, which Fort Smith artist Mr. Sonny MacDonald, donates to the award recipient.

Mr. Speaker, I encourage all Members to join me in congratulating Mr. Alan Falconer for his many years of dedicated service to our elders.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 96-13(4): NWT Outstanding Volunteer Service Award - 1997
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1308

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent.

Minister's Statement 97-13(4): Northern Teacher Education Graduates
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1308

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Education, Culture and Employment has set a goal that by the year 2000, 50 percent of the teachers in Nunavut and the new western territory will be aboriginal. The department, the public colleges, the divisional education councils and the two Yellowknife district education authorities have been working together to reach this goal through community-based Teacher Education Programs. As well, campus-based Teacher Education Programs are offered by the colleges.

Teacher Education Program graduates first receive a diploma in teaching, after which many choose to continue their studies in a Bachelor of Education program. Students with Aurora College transfer to the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, while students at Nunavut Arctic College can work towards a McGill Bachelor of Education in Iqaluit or Montreal.

I am pleased to announce that a number of northern teacher education students have graduated from Bachelor of Education programs this year. In April, six students received their McGill Bachelor of Education degrees at the Nunavut Arctic College convocation in Iqaluit. They are Leesie Akulukjuk, Mary Alikatuktuk and Marlene Angnakak all of Pangnirtung; Nute Arnauyuymayuq of Arctic Bay, Lyn Kennedy of Iqaluit and Maggie Kunilusie of Broughton Island.

In May, seven students from the western Arctic graduated from the Indian Teacher Education Program at the University of Saskatchewan. They are Phoebe Allaire, Ruby Blake, Mary Grundy, Beverly Hardisty, Sheila Hilliard, Lorna Masazumi and Tammy Steinwand. I would like to note that Ms. Grundy and Ms. Steinwand both graduate with Great Distinction, and they were the only two students in the entire class to achieve this honour. Ms. Grundy is a graduate of the Teacher Education Program in Fort Smith, while Ms. Steinwand is a graduate of the Dogrib Community Teacher Education Program.

Well-trained, well-qualified teachers are essential to providing quality education to NWT students. Teachers who are born and raised in the north have a particular advantage because they share the language and culture of their community and the students they teach. The NWT Teacher Education Programs are providing northern teacher trainees with the knowledge and skills they need to succeed with university studies and to succeed as competent and highly-skilled classroom teachers.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 97-13(4): Northern Teacher Education Graduates
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1308

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 2, Members' statements. Mr. Roland.

Member's Statement 387-13(4): Providing A Strong Foundation To Children
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1308

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by sending greetings to my wife and children back home.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been some time now since we first took part in our first session of the 13th Assembly. I believe that we have all tried to represent our constituencies as best we can. It seems, Mr. Speaker, that the people of the north look to the government for solutions to all our problems. Mr. Speaker, we need to get the message out to our constituents that we, as a government, can only try to provide the necessary tools to help them in their normal, day to day lives.

Mr. Speaker, governments have tried to be the body to deal with all our problems, and it has failed time after time. I am not saying that governments have failed at everything. We have had some successes. Mr. Speaker, the message the government needs to start sending is one that nobody likes to deal with and it is time that someone starts to address this. Mr. Speaker, we have heard that it is very important that a solid foundation is formed early in a child's life. As I have said earlier, as a government we can only try to help by providing the tools necessary in building this foundation. Mr. Speaker, we cannot make decisions in place of parents and family members. Indeed, we cannot make any individual do what they do not want to do, but we can help them in some of their daily decisions by providing information in a timely way.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to end by quoting from the Good Book, Proverbs 22, verse 6: "Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it." Mr.

Speaker, I know that what we do as a government is only policy and programs, but it is the message we send along with those that can help in day to day lives. Thank you.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 387-13(4): Providing A Strong Foundation To Children
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Member's Statement 388-13(4): Arctic Energy Alliance
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would just like to rise in support of the announcement made by the Minister for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in regards to the Arctic Energy Alliance. I think this is a very critical initiative when we look at the amount of money being spent. This is critical now and in the future. Mr. Speaker, this is an area where there can be great savings realized, savings unlike the ones we have just had to experience in the first two years. These would be relatively painless and can be realized by efficiencies in the use of energy and making use of the new technologies.

Mr. Speaker, the community that I am from, Fort Smith, in my opinion has been a leader in some of these areas to do with hydrogen, district heating initiatives, the whole area of community energy planning, working closely with the college and the South Slave Research Centre. So along with my accolades to the department, I would like to suggest that Fort Smith would be an ideal location for this Arctic Energy Alliance office, given their involvement of the people.

Obviously, there is full support for this suggestion, Mr. Speaker and I am sure the Minister will remember that when it comes time to make an important decision of this nature. Thank you.

-- Laughter

Member's Statement 388-13(4): Arctic Energy Alliance
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Member's Statement 389-13(4): Commercial Fishing Crisis
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement today is about the plight of an industry, an economic sector very important to the riding that I represent. For the past 50 years commercial harvesting of fish from Great Slave Lake has been a sustainable industry creating wealth, employment and livelihood for many people. Today I am sorry to report that most Great Slave Lake fishermen cannot afford to fish this summer. A combination of low prices announced by the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation and the reduction in the freight subsidy due to GNWT budgetary cuts will net a bottom line resulting in projected losses which eliminate the viability of commercial fishing this summer season.

By a show of hands at the annual general meeting of the NWT Fishermen's Federation, the majority of fishermen indicated that they cannot afford to fish this summer. I would like to thank Mr. Kakfwi, the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development for coming to Hay River and meeting with the fishermen. We heard that the problems facing this industry consist of more than the reduction in the freight subsidy. Many areas, including marketing, operating costs, harvesting techniques, product development and processing are all areas that need to be addressed.

While the cost of wages, food, fuel and equipment has risen dramatically in the past 25 years, the price being paid for fish has not risen proportionately. At a time when this government is counting on the private sector to provide much needed jobs for northerners, we must examine our renewable resource sector industries such as commercial fishing, to ensure we are doing everything we can to ensure their viability and continuance.

Commercial fishing on Great Slave Lake employs approximately 180 individuals who could not easily transfer their skills and experience to other types of work. Great Slave Lake yields a sustainable, high quality grade of fish for which there is a market. However, it is an export market and for the past 25 years we have relied on the services of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation to fulfil this marketing role. Along with the raw resource of our fish, we have exported the monetary spinoffs and jobs for processing and handling to a plant in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

When it was determined by this government that Freshwater was not serving the interests of the char and turbit fishery in the eastern Arctic, the development corporation stepped in to assist with transportation, marketing, product development and working capital resulting in workable prices and secondary processing jobs.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Member's Statement 389-13(4): Commercial Fishing Crisis
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mrs. Groenewegen, you have unanimous consent.

Member's Statement 389-13(4): Commercial Fishing Crisis
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1309

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you to my colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I am not suggesting that the eastern Arctic fishery is receiving too much support or that the Great Slave Lake fishermen want or need the assistance of the development corporation but what I am saying is that whitefish producers are in need of help at this time. Although the fishing industry contributes $6 million to our economy annually, at this point in time it is not self-supporting and this is not unusual in the primary production sector in the north, or in the country for that matter.

I realize that the level of financial support to this industry may be fixed due to limited resources. However, I would like to see the fishermen given the opportunity to assess the needs of their industry in light of the existing support, to determine if reallocation of what now is primarily a freight subsidy could be more effectively spent. I believe that we can come up with a workable plan which could be implemented quickly. The research has already all been done, we need a plan developed and driven by the fishermen, not by the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation or by this government. One driven by the fishermen that they can agree with and that they can buy into.

I do not have the answers to the questions that need to be addressed concerning the Great Slave Lake commercial fishery, but I do know that we have a renewable, sustainable, high quality resource sitting right on our doorstep which employs significant numbers of primarily aboriginal northerners which, without some organized support from this government, is going to be lost to the detriment of our economy, my community and most importantly, the fishermen.

The reason that the commercial fishermen of Great Slave Lake are here in the Visitor's Gallery today and are not out fishing is because this, Mr. Speaker, is an industry in crisis. Thank you.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 389-13(4): Commercial Fishing Crisis
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1310

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. Mr. Steen.

Member's Statement 390-13(4): Water Delivery Cutbacks
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1310

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today my statement will be related to the cutbacks on GNWT programming and the end results of these cutbacks. Mr. Speaker, Members of this government, Legislative Assembly and in particular the Members of Cabinet have made statements in regards to obtaining a balanced budget but not on the backs of the poor or the elders so therefore, we try to design programming that would not affect those types of people. However, at some point in time I feel it is important that we, as Members and Cabinet Members in particular, take the opportunity to travel to the different regions and see the results of their decisions and the results of the decisions of this Assembly as a whole in person.

Mr. Speaker, probably the best grasp that people can use to judge the effects of our programs and our decisions is to see what effect these program cutbacks are having on the particular elders, poor and, in some cases homeless people. Therefore, it is beneficial once in awhile to hear from a constituent what those actual cutbacks are and the effects they are having. Mr. Speaker, in particular I would like to refer to a letter I received from one of my constituents in regards to water delivery cutbacks. At a later time today, I will table this letter.

It starts off, "I am writing on behalf of Tuktoyaktuk housing residents who are currently encountering many hygienic and financial problems because of the water delivery cutbacks. I have been in Tuktoyaktuk almost three months and I have heard and I have also gone through the problems that Tuktoyaktuk housing residents are unfortunately going through. I would like to point out a few of the problems the water delivery cutbacks are causing:

1. Elders are going without water for at least one or two days...

Mr. Speaker, I would like unanimous consent at this time from my colleagues to complete my statement.

Member's Statement 390-13(4): Water Delivery Cutbacks
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1310

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Nunakput is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? Mr. Steen, you have unanimous consent.

Member's Statement 390-13(4): Water Delivery Cutbacks
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1310

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and my colleagues. I will start again:

1. Elders are going without water for at least one or two days, as their children and grandchildren are using their water to do laundry, shower and bath.

2. People are bringing in pipeless honey buckets, and by this they mean, honey buckets with no air vents as the flush toilets are useless when they run out of water.

3. Limited water use is hygienically unhealthy as people have to cutback on their showers, baths, laundry, flushing toilets and house cleaning.

4. People are going to their neighbours, friends and relatives with a pail to borrow water, shower, bath and do laundry. It is not only embarrassing, but it is cutting in on people's privacy as well.

In the long run, it is so unhealthy it is beyond our imagination as to what health problems this water cutback will cause and has already caused. Most families are allowed 500 litres of water a week. If they run out of water and want water delivered, they have to pay $50 for a 250 litre tank. Even for people who can afford to pay it, it is another hardship as the cost of living here is so high. I know of some people, even those who are working, who have to go without water for at least two days as they just cannot afford to pay the $50.

The ones suffering are the unemployed, the elders and the single mothers, as they are on a very limited income and this unbelievable cutback is just another hardship to set them back. I am sure there are many other problems I have not mentioned. I would also like to point out that we are definitely going back in time when we use honey buckets. But at least at that time, the honey buckets had vents, running around with a pail to get water. Unfortunately, those who cannot afford very much have to suffer more because of the water issue. Whoever made this water delivery cutback should know this water is the main source of living, especially in this modern age and day."

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to really nail down as to who can trace responsibility for the final decision for the water cutback. If we go and trace this thing, Mr. Speaker, this supply is in particular to residents in social housing. This does not apply to people who own their own homes. We are in a situation here where who would make the decision to cutback water in social housing? Is it the local housing board? Obviously, they are only responding to cutbacks from the Housing Corporation. Is it the Housing Corporation? No, they are responding to cutbacks designated to them by the Minister. Is it the Minister then? No, he would say that he is responding to cutbacks agreed to by Cabinet.

At some point in time, somebody will say well, maybe it is the hamlet council. Well then the hamlet council will say no, we are responding because we have been cutback by MACA and MACA will say no, we are not responsible because we are responding to a cutback approved by the Members. And of course we Members will say no, we did not approve any of this, the departments did it on their own or they stretched the decisions made by the Legislative Assembly. Therefore we come back to this one particular point, that we all agreed the elders and the poor would not be the ones to pay for us to balance the budget.

-- Applause

We all said that and we all intended it that way, but that is not the way it is turning out. We should take that into consideration. We have been doing this for two years now and we should see what the results are of the decisions we have made. Who do I, as a Member, an MLA, which Member of this House do I question as to who made the final decision of the cutback? I have already said that when it reaches the point of the Ministers, they all say no we are responding to a cutback or the Finance Minister says everybody must cutback ten percent. The Finance Minister will say we all agreed to this, therefore, nobody is responsible for this in the end. Nobody is responsible for this decision.

I, as an MLA, am confused as to who I ask in order to put the water back. If nobody is responsible for cutting it, then obviously it should not have been done. Mr. Speaker, I would like to invite the Premier and the Finance Minister to personally view the results of their decisions in my region. I would like them to come to my community and I will personally introduce them to some of these people in this letter. If they are invited for tea by these people, they should take the tea because more than likely that elder had to borrow the water to offer them tea. Thank you.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 390-13(4): Water Delivery Cutbacks
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Member's Statement 391-13(4): Transitional Housing Needs
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was pleased to see Mr. Arlooktoo speak about the 1996 Housing Needs Survey today because my statement relate to the need for transitional housing in Yellowknife. Transitional housing, for those who are not familiar with it, is for people who have no money, who are destitute or perhaps are in need of fleeing abuse. I am not talking about people who are perpetually in need of housing, the homeless who also need help, that is another critical area, but I am talking about people with dependants who require interim accommodation for a period of time until they get on their feet.

Yellowknife has become a magnet for a lot of people from throughout the territories and perhaps other areas as well. They are moving here from the communities. We attract a lot of families and a lot of people, some of whom are in need when they get here and likely this will increase as we go, both the numbers of people that we attract because of the potential here, because of the services here and so forth, and that will put increasing pressure on transitional housing needs. There is no shortage in our community in terms of apartments to rent or houses for sale. As a matter of fact, there is a surplus. But these are not for people who have no money, people who do not even have a damage deposit.

I was at a meeting of the YWCA recently and there were a number of community organizations represented there. There was anxiety about the future ability to provide housing and support programs. The NWT Housing Corporation has been very supportive over the years and continues to do that, but there is a limit to that support. The Housing Corporation cannot continue to increase its support forever, especially under the current financial conditions. The reason I am raising this today, Mr. Speaker, is because I want people to be aware. It is not just in the communities that there is a housing need for certain sectors. We also have a housing need and we are getting a lot of people from your communities. I have a responsibility when they become my constituents. I have a responsibility to address that problem and I will continue to address it, Mr. Speaker, to try and find some solution to it and to pressure the Minister when it comes to housing needs for my community. Thank you.

Member's Statement 391-13(4): Transitional Housing Needs
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Member's Statement 392-13(4): Appreciation For Government Employees
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good afternoon colleagues. In a short time, this Assembly will take its recess for the summer. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all my colleagues, and especially the government employees in this building. I would also like to thank the residents of Pangnirtung, Clyde River, Broughton Island, and my wife and my kids. Have a good summer.

Member's Statement 392-13(4): Appreciation For Government Employees
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

Member's Statement 393-13(4): Mackenzie Delta Summer Events
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1311

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is regarding two upcoming events in the Mackenzie Delta this summer, Fun in the Land of the Midnight Sun, north of the Arctic Circle. Mr. Speaker, the first event will take place in Aklavik which is well known as Pokiak River Festival, which is the sixth annual alcohol free event and will take place the weekend of June 20th to the 23rd. Everyone is welcome to

that event, which includes some of the Delta's well known talent, especially native musicians with their natural born talents. Also, this year the event will be in honour of the youth and community wellness.

The other event, Mr. Speaker, is in regards to the Midway Lake Music Festival, which is the 12th annual Midway Lake Music Festival, which will be held July 25th, 26th, and 27th. Mr. Speaker, this year the music festival will be dedicated in honour of the late fiddler Alfred Frances, who passed away earlier this year after a long battle with cancer. Alfred has been entertaining us at Midway Lake from the beginning in 1985, along with other festivals across the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Alaska. Mr. Speaker, I welcome all the residents of the Northwest Territories, Yukon and the rest of Canada to this well publicized event to be held this summer. Thank you.

Member's Statement 393-13(4): Mackenzie Delta Summer Events
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Member's Statement 394-13(4): Rae-edzo Power Outages
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement is geared towards the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. Over the last weekend during the heavy rains that we had in Rae-Edzo, the Edzo residents woke up Saturday morning to find that a power outage was taking place. This outage lasted from approximately 4:30 a.m. to 12 noon. As you can see, this is an extremely long period and although it is not winter, it was very cool and did create an uncomfortable situation.

Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time this type of thing has happened this year. However, most are not as long as this particular outage, but they do happen. This spring, we had a number of power outages.

Mr. Speaker, it almost seems like these lines are not waterproof or something, as most outages do happen when it is raining out. I realize the Power Corporation does have accidents from time to time on the lines, but there must be something that can prevent or reduce this from occurring often.

Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the responsible Minister a question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 394-13(4): Rae-edzo Power Outages
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Member's Statement 395-13(4): Small Community Employment Opportunities
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be using my first language so I think you need to wear your earpiece here. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the people in the Northwest Territories get government employment and employment from private sectors in each community. But we all know, Mr. Speaker, that all of our people cannot obtain government jobs and jobs from the private sectors because there is a high unemployment rate in the communities. Whenever there is a job coming to smaller communities, the people that obtain these jobs try to keep them as long as they can, which is understandable. Madam Groenewegen mentioned people who commercial fish that can obtain some money when they have a short term employment and some people do trapping and carving to make money to live.

We all know, today, that the government, during their fiscal restraint do not have any money to provide for the people. We have to try to look for other ways of getting some money. As well, there are hunters and trappers and fishermen that are trying to get income by doing their traditional way of life. We have to try to help those people.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to encourage my fellow Members that we should try to help out people who are trying to make money by their traditional way of life, because they have a need as well. We have to help them out because the government does not provide for them and they are trying to provide for themselves. We have to support them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

Member's Statement 395-13(4): Small Community Employment Opportunities
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Member's Statement 396-13(4): Hmcs Yellowknife Launching
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1312

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about HMCS Yellowknife, which will be officially launched tomorrow on June 5, 1997.

Mr. Speaker, in the late 1980s, Canada's navy recognized the need for an effective coastal defence platform that would complement Canada's combat capable, general purpose maritime forces. The navy decided to build 12 maritime coastal defence vessels, MCDVs, to meet this requirement. The first of the new kingston class, HMCS Kingston, was launched in August 1995. Kingston class vessels are now joining the fleet about every four months, but the project is scheduled for completion in 1999.

The primary role of the kingston class MCDVs is coastal surveillance and patrol. This involves a wide variety of missions, including general naval operations and exercises, search and rescue, and support to other government departments for various activities such as law enforcement, resource protection and pollution control.

Mr. Speaker, a few days ago, in preparing for the launch, a ship slipped into the water on her own. Fortunately, no damage was done and HMCS Yellowknife is now ready for her official launch. I believe this is a good sign. HMCS Yellowknife is already acting like a true northerner, getting on with things and not waiting to stand on ceremony. I am sure this House joins me in wishing good luck to HMCS Yellowknife and that she has a long and distinguished career in the Canadian navy. Thank you.

Member's Statement 396-13(4): Hmcs Yellowknife Launching
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1313

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Member's Statement 397-13(4): Accomplishments Of Iqaluit Residents
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1313

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak a little about the accomplishments of residents from Iqaluit. Too many times we raise issues of concerns, complaints, et cetera. Today, I would like to end this sitting on a most positive note.

Last week one of the Pages here in the Assembly from Iqaluit was Sean Doherty. Sean is a grade seven student at Inuksuk High School and was one of three students who represented the NWT at the Great Canadian Geography Quiz in Ottawa. Sean did very well.

Three Iqaluit high school students were selected to participate in the architecture, engineering, and computer program. Erin Levy, Jean Simpson, and Denis Plaza will travel here to Yellowknife in July for orientation. Congratulations.

Donna Kenneally, Jimmy Arlooktoo, Ineak Ipeelie, Edward Flowers, and Jason Carpenter, all students of Nunavut Arctic College in Iqaluit, flew to Latvia to learn about the history, culture and language of the country and then to New York where they represented the country Latvia at the model United Nations conference. They were excellent ambassadors of the north and thanks go out to David Willman, Lin Moss, Derek Cutler, and Ramon Deluca, who were the staff accompanying the students.

The first all women's expedition to the north pole was completed successfully. Members of the women's polar relay expedition were led by Iqaluit's own Matty McNair. Congratulations, Matty.

Moosa and Pitsula Akavak of Iqaluit completed a walk with their children from Lake Harbour to Iqaluit. Mr. Speaker, Moosa and Pitsula were walking to raise awareness of family issues. They are excellent role models for all northerners.

Nunatsiaq news, based in Iqaluit, recently won two awards for best editorial and second best for colour on a tabloid page. Over 145 community newspapers competed in that competition. Congratulations.

Finally, I know that all Members of this House know long time northerner, and my good friend, Mr. Gordon Rennie. Gordon celebrated his 50th year of employment with the Northwest Company, formerly the Hudson Bay Company, last month.

Mr. Speaker, Gordon is still working every day at the northern convenience store in Iqaluit and I know Members of this House will join me in congratulating Gordon and wishing him and his family good health and hopefully soon, a happy and quiet retirement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 397-13(4): Accomplishments Of Iqaluit Residents
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1313

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Member's Statement 398-13(4): Congratulations To Rotary Award Winner Tony Whitford
Item 2: Members' Statements

June 3rd, 1997

Page 1313

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today Ms. Thompson announced the 1997 NWT Outstanding Voluntary Service Award which was presented to Mr. Alan Falconer of Yellowknife. I would also like to recognize another Yellowknife gentleman who in this past week also received a very prestigious award. The award, Mr. Speaker, is known as a Paul Harris award, sponsored by Rotary International. Rotary International is a voluntary service club with over 75,000 clubs in every country of the world except China. It has over one million members. The recipient of the award was Mr. Tony Whitford who is well known to a lot of the residents of the NWT. This award has been presented to rotarians and non-rotarians over the past number of years and the recipients presently stand at around 6,000 members. Other recipients of the award, Mr. Speaker, were the Reverend and Mrs. Bailey from Yellowknife, Mr. Barb Bromley and Alan Falconer also received this award a number of years ago. Mr. Speaker, I would ask you to join with me and other Members in congratulating Mr. Tony Whitford on the award.

Member's Statement 398-13(4): Congratulations To Rotary Award Winner Tony Whitford
Item 2: Members' Statements

Page 1313

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 521-13(4): Basic Income Support Funding
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1313

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a reply to a question asked by Mrs. Groenewegen on June 2nd. Mr. Speaker, it is not the Department's role to assume responsibility for the payment of income support Program clients' bills. The income support Program promotes financial responsibility and financial accountability, and provides support and training for clients to help them become financially responsible and accountable.

There are three circumstances in which service providers are given a client's income support cheque directly. In the case where there has been a demonstrated and severe money management problem, the worker may directly pay the local supplier. Secondly, a community, through a hamlet or band resolution, may direct the income support worker to pay the supplier for all clients. Also, the department can pay a guardian on behalf of a person with a disability that prevents their informed decision-making. In addition, there is an appeal process for income support clients if they feel mistreated by this process.

Mr. Speaker, three manuals related to the Income Support Program have been developed which provide extensive support for field and management personnel. These manuals were jointly developed by the Departments of Education, Culture and Employment, Justice, and Health and Social Services. They provide income support staff with the information they need to complete their tasks. The training manuals are competency-based, self-directed and community-oriented and will soon be available through the Internet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 521-13(4): Basic Income Support Funding
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1314

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Ms. Thompson.

Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1314

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns. One was asked by Mr. Krutko on May 30, 1997 on land development policy. The western land claims that were settled allowed for the land claim groups, Inuvialuit, Gwich'in, Sahtu, to select lands within municipal boundaries for their ownership and use. These were called municipal lands in the claims. These are not lands owned by the municipalities. Lands within municipalities that were not selected by the claimants have remained under the administration and control of the commissioner or the federal crown.

In Nunavut, TFN was allowed to select land within municipal boundaries as part of settling the land claim. The Nunavut Claim was unique in that it designated the municipality as the owner and administrator of titled land within its boundary. As a result of this, each Nunavut community has had to develop a bylaw regulating how land is to be administered and developed. The fact that most Nunavut hamlets now have land administration bylaws in place has made the GNWT Land Development Capital Program redundant. It is expected that communities administering their own land will also access their own resources through collected lease revenues or borrowing funds to do land development.

In the Inuvik region, the GNWT still administers land on behalf of the communities and the Land Development Capital Program is still in place. There is, however, interest from communities to acquire and administer their own land particularly in Aklavik and Tuktoyaktuk. Should this interest remain, it will be possible for these hamlets to obtain ownership and control over lands and draft and implement land administration bylaws. This would also make the Land Development Capital Program obsolete in these communities just as in Nunavut, and the western communities would then access funds either from collected fees or through long term borrowing to maintain a supply of land in their community.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 513-13(4): Land Development And Pricing Policies
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1314

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I have another return, asked by Mr. Steen on June 2, 1997 regarding land development and pricing policies. When the hamlet owns the land within its community boundaries, it can charge whatever it wants for lease fees on existing lots. The less it charges, the less revenue it has. However, in Tuktoyaktuk, the hamlet does not yet own the land. It is Commissioner's land and MACA administers it on behalf of the hamlet. The Land Pricing Policy applies and the minimum lease rental is generally $600 per year. There are some exceptions, such as for seniors and non profit organizations, where the rental is reduced.

Each community that wishes to take over ownership and control over the land must develop its own pricing rules, which are set out in a land administration bylaw. This process is currently underway in Tuktoyaktuk. Until ownership is transferred however, the land will remain under the administration of the GNWT and the $600 minimum lease rental will apply. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 486-13(4): Clyde River Adult Education Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1314

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Enuaraq on May 28th regarding the Clyde River Adult Education Centre. A Clyde River contractor known as Qanait Construction Ltd., requested a negotiated contract for the construction of the Adult Education Centre in Clyde River. In January, 1997, after following a normal practice for negotiated contracts, Cabinet directed Public Works and Services to negotiate the contract subject to Article 24 of the Nunavut Final Agreement.

The intent to negotiate was advertised and two other firms expressed an interest in the construction of the building. As for our deadlines on negotiated contracts in Nunavut, the negotiations were then stopped and the three firms were then invited to submit bids. The tender closed on May 16, 1997, and the bids are still being analyzed, so the contract has not yet been awarded. Thank you.

Return To Question 486-13(4): Clyde River Adult Education Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1314

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1314

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure today to recognize a number of my constituents in the gallery. Just give us a wave when I call your name so that people will know who you are. Bert Buckley and two junior fishermen, Bert Buckley Junior and Jonathon Buckley. Lionel Rundle, Len Cardinal, and Helen Kinnison. Can I put in a little plug for the fact that Helen made this beautiful white fish vertebrae jewellery that I am wearing today. Alex and Irene Laliberte, Don Sinclair, Ken Laliberte, Franklin Gauthier, Merial Berry, Alex Morin, Jimmy Thomas. The manager of the fresh water fish marketing corporation, Dave Bergunder and a

reporter from the local newspaper in Hay River, The Hub, David Helwig. Welcome to the House.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for DPW and is in reference to a letter that I received from Mayor William Noah in Baker Lake. Mr. Speaker, the people of Baker Lake have been waiting for years for the extension to their school. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is incumbent upon us as leaders to ensure that the children and the staff from the various schools have adequate facilities. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, what is the status of the tender for the Baker Lake school extension? Thank you.

Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extensions
Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member asked the question about the status of the Baker Lake school expansion. I am pleased to confirm that, after several days of the Department of Public Works analyzing a proposal with the assistance of the Department of Education, the contract will be awarded today to the local firm in Baker Lake.

Return To Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extensions
Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extensions
Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his understanding and support in regards to this contract. I am sure the people of Baker Lake will be very thankful. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extensions
Question 537-13(4): Baker Lake School Extension
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Public Works and Services. Can the Minister confirm that the GNWT only offers contracts to companies which are in good standing? (Translation ends)

Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, in summary my response would be for companies that are incorporated and in good standing, we offer contracts. Thank you. (Translation ends)

Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) I would be interested to find out how "in good standing" is defined. Mr. Speaker, does the government only review the company's credit history as it relates to government organizations or do they look beyond this and review a company's entire history of repaying bills? (Translation ends)

Supplementary To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Public Works with the Workers Compensation Board, the Business Incentive office and other organizations to see if there are any outstanding debts or if there are any complaints about companies. (Translation ends)

Further Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) I am aware of some contractors that have not paid their bills for things such as accommodation and rental of heavy equipment vehicles in the communities. Does the department take this into consideration and will the Minister commit to reviewing this particular concern which has been brought to my attention? (Translation ends)

Supplementary To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the department is asked by the contractors of outstanding bills, we can look into this. If the Member knows about a particular incident, I can look into this. Thank you. (Translation ends)

Further Return To Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Question 538-13(4): Northern Companies In Good Standing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1315

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. It is regarding the upcoming events this summer in Inuvik, the assemblies and other meetings that are going to be held in the Inuvik region. The Gwich'in Assembly will be held July 28th to the 31st in Inuvik. With regard to the concerns and issues that are raised at these assemblies, I believe it is critical and important that the government is present when these concerns are being raised. I would like to thank Mr. Antoine for making his appearance at the assembly last year, but it will be nice if other Ministers could be present at the assembly this year. I would like the Premier to have people available to field questions on topics such as cuts to programs and services, self-government talks, community empowerment, questions about the Northern Accord, a concern on negotiated contracts. Mr. Speaker, I would like to request the Premier to ensure there are representatives there from this government, especially from the Department of Social Services, at this annual assembly.

Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are many assemblies throughout the Northwest Territories during the summer. All the regions have assemblies. As well, we have the Dene National Assembly and the Metis Nation Assembly. We will be looking at all the assemblies and then we will make sure Ministers or some government representative is present at each assembly. Thank you.

Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to my earlier question, I clearly stated one particular department I would like to see there, especially in regards to cuts to programs and services. There is a real concern from the aboriginal bands and the tribal councils in relation to their negotiations for self-government and the cuts that have taken place in the Inuvik region, especially in regards to the area of alcohol and drug programs and to mental health workers. At that particular assembly, I would like the Premier to make a commitment that the Minister of Social Services would definitely be there.

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I stated earlier in my response, once I have the opportunity, I will look at the meeting schedule of all the assemblies. Last year Mr. Antoine and Mr. Kakfwi had the honour of attending the Gwich'in Assembly. This year, we will try to pick a Minister to go to the Gwich'in Assembly. It has to balance with the Ministers' time schedules, other assemblies, as well as Ministers' personal commitments to their families. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Premier make a commitment to ensure that there will be someone there from the Department of Social Services at the Gwich'in Annual Assembly?

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will instruct the Minister of Social Services to make sure that we have someone from his department at the Gwich'in Annual Assembly in July. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to ensuring that someone will be there, I would like to thank the Premier for making that commitment. But I would like someone who is there who has some senior authority, who can take some direction and hopefully do something about it, not just a social worker. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The social workers are front line workers of this government, we value their service very much. We understand how hard of a job they have. I would never say just a social worker. But let me reassure the Member that they will send someone to the Gwich'in Annual Assembly in July from the Department of Health. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Question 539-13(4): Summer Availability Of Ministers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Rabesca.

Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1316

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier, during my Member's statement, I mentioned my concern about a power outage that had occurred in Rae-Edzo last weekend, as well as on various other occasions. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Dent, I would like to know why there was this extremely long outage on Saturday, May 31, 1997.

Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Member noted earlier, the power was off from about four in the morning until nearly noon. The reason for the long outage, was that the control station in Yellowknife was not aware that there was a problem with the power until about 7:30 a.m. The Corporation was never able to determine the cause of the outage, but it may have been related to the high winds that night. Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation takes full responsibility for the power outage and apologizes to the community for any problems that may have resulted. Changes to the 24-hour trouble reporting line between the community and Yellowknife meant that the phone system was disconnected for a period of time. That is the reason the staff on duty were not aware there was a problem in the community for three and a half hours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question. Supplementary. Mr. Rabesca.

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Why has there been a number of outages, particularly when it is raining, even though there does not seem to be any lightning activity within that region?

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Perhaps the Minister would like to respond to the Member as to why there are so many power outages in the Member's area. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say that I do not know why there are a number of outages. I am not sure if there are a disproportionate number of outages in Rae-Edzo or not. We do know that the outage on Saturday was not the result of equipment failure, but the corporation has not been able to determine whether or not there is any relation between the rain and the power outage. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question. Supplementary. Mr. Rabesca.

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

James Rabesca North Slave

What is the Power Corporation doing to prevent/reduce the number of outages that keep occurring within our region? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the lack of a good indication at the control centre about whether or not there is a power problem has been clearly recognized by the Power Corporation. This problem is being addressed. The Power Corporation is in the process of spending about $500,000 on a major upgrade to the power system in Rae-Edzo. Once a new computerized control system is installed, the control centre in Yellowknife will automatically be notified of any major power fluctuations in the area. That would mean that there would not be a requirement for somebody in the community to call the control centre. So, Mr. Speaker, there has been a recognition of a problem in the area and the corporation is moving to solve it in the next few months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mr. Rabesca.

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

James Rabesca North Slave

In the future, can the Minister try to consult myself or the community? There has to be more information regarding the cause of the re-occurring power outages. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will commit to keeping the Member informed of progress on the work to the system that is being done and let him know when it is fully operational. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Question 540-13(4): Cause Of Rae-edzo Power Outage
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. I realize that the Minister is up to speed and well aware of the challenges that are facing the fisherman at this time. For the record, Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if the Minister could please indicate if his department is able to provide the necessary resources to allow the fishermen of Great Slave Lake to develop and implement a plan that would enhance their fishery and address some of the problems they are facing today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1317

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister responsible, I am prepared to support the development of a strategy, in partnership with the fishermen of Hay River, to look at how we can best make use of the existing allocated resources by this government in support of the fishing industry and to look at a strategy that would look at how we can best harvest and market this resource from Great Slave Lake. We would look at the present subsidy and whether the resource using that subsidy is being used to the maximum benefit of the industry and the fishermen and look at questions of whether being members of the Fresh Water Fish Marketing Corporation is in fact being maximized to the full benefit of the fishermen or whether or not we should review being members at all at this time. The department and its' officials have, I believe, begun some preliminary discussions with the fishermen to begin development of a strategy together with them. It is my commitment that we are prepared to fund the development of a strategy as long as the fishermen take the lead in doing that work. Thank you.

Return To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister very much with that commitment and will look forward to seeing the results of that. One of the other questions that the fishermen themselves have wanted me to ask is in regards to one of their major operating costs of fishing on Great Slave Lake and that is the cost of fuel. I know that there has been some preliminary discussion about the tax that is levied on fuel which in fact relates to roads. Of course, their vehicles are not driven on roads. They are on the water. I was wondering if the Minister could tell us what process would be involved in addressing the issue of tax on fuel and perhaps implementing a gas at a price similar to what farmers pay in southern Canada, something known as a purple gas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, there are existing resources, such as the subsidy and other resources that will be available to assist the fishermen, that are within the present budget of this government. How we can make better use of that is what we are prepared to discuss with the fishermen. Any questions like that we will be prepared to discuss in that context. We are open to all questions and suggestions in that context. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Question 541-13(4): Plan For The Great Slave Lake Fishery
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. Today, the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation advised the House about the provisions of homes for northerners. This government, a number of times, has acknowledged that with the continuation of the high birth rate in communities, it will not be able to continue to provide accommodation and services at the present levels. My question to the Premier is what standards or actions is the government taking to advise and educate residents of the NWT of this fact? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Four or five years ago, when I was the Minister of the Housing Corporation, there was a needs survey done. At that time, we were approximately 3,500 units short. We were predicting that these numbers would climb unless there was action taken. Now today, we find out that we are 4,350 units short. This is driven by the population growth, this is one of the reasons. But, we must also fully understand that the federal government never did live up to its fiduciary responsibility to the aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories. This is also driven directly from when people were relocated off the land into communities. There was never adequate housing for our people in the Northwest Territories. The federal government always fell short on funding of adequate housing for the people of the Northwest Territories. It has fallen so short that it is non-existent now. There is no federal money available for housing of aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories and that is the main reason that we are short 4,350 units of housing today. But let me assure you that the birth rate also has an effect. Thank you.

Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand from the Premier's comments that we certainly do have someone to blame. But my question is what is this government doing to educate the residents of the Northwest Territories that we have to do something about our birth rate? That we cannot continue to have the numbers of children we are having because we cannot, as the Premier has advised, provide accommodation for them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1318

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think it is the responsibility of this government to tell people to stop having children, but I do think it is the responsibility to let people know that they will be responsible for the children they do have and that we should work along with the Minister of Health and Social Services and other departments of this government, to let people know what that means when they

bring a child into this world. You will be responsible for that child.

But we also have to make sure that people understand the situation the people in the north are in today. Members have had the opportunity of seeing an environmental scan of the future of the north and what it will be like a few years down the road. We plan, as a government, to aggressively go out and make people aware of the situation and where we are going in the north if nothing is done to either birth rates or funding or just forced growth of government, of what could happen. So we are going to be taking an aggressive role in educating people and making people aware of where the Northwest Territories is going. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the Premier is getting to the crux of the matter, that it is the responsibility of the government to provide education to the people that we cannot continue to provide accommodations at these levels and other services. Can the Minister advise me as to what programs and education that the government has initiated in the last couple of years to address that particular concern? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many times in this Legislative Assembly, the Ministers, the Premier, as well as MLAs raise the issue of forced growth, and increased birth rate throughout the Northwest Territories, and what that would mean to our education system. For example, in Mr. O'Brien's riding, it is my understanding for the last two years there were 100 children born each year. Now those children are going to end up in kindergarten in four or five years so it is an ongoing issue that we have to try to address and try to educate people.

Like I have said previously, our government is committed to educating people. Some have said the best incentive for not increasing the birth rate is to create jobs and give people the opportunity to go to work and from that, my understanding is you do end up having less children. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Question 542-13(4): Causes Of Increasing Housing Needs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Financial Management Board and it has to do with the creation of the two territories. The public in general is very curious as to the timing of transfers and when it is happening and how people will be affected from a public sense and from an employee sense. People are anxious to know because their positions may be affected. From a community side, a business side, there is also an anxiety to know what is happening. I am wondering if the Minister could tell us if the departments are working on a strategic plan and what the process of that plan is?

Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My honourable colleague is correct. We need to get some orderly transition plan in place so the effects, both positive and negative depending on where you stand, are minimized. As I have said many times in this House, the exercise is currently underway by the departments to provide us with the pre-implementation of division plan that we can move in an orderly way to get the new government up and running and stabilizing the one that will exist in the west. That technical exercise is underway right now. I am hoping we can conclude it sometime in late August. It would then have to be vetted through a variety of players, because everybody is at the table, from the Western Coalition, the Interim Commissioner, the NTI, to the federal government, to the Legislative Assembly. We are just all going to have a big meeting about this and come to some agreement that we can move forward so that we have two new governments in place for April 1, 1999, and it is done in an orderly, equitable and fair manner. Thank you.

Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister could tell us if it will identify the possible positions that will be affected. I said earlier there is anxiety out there, but there is also anticipation. There is a need for both the people in Nunavut to know, and for us here in Yellowknife, which positions will be affected and when they will be affected. Could the Minister perhaps speak a bit about that and tell us a little more? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1319

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, it is kind of like an opera. There should be music to this. I know that in the pre-implementation exercise that is currently underway, we will identify a phased approach to the division of the territories. In that we will clearly identify the PYs, if that is what we are talking about, the bodies that are necessary to be put in place in certain areas prior to April 1, 1999. I would say, in fairness to everybody, that I do not see this as we are going to turn the lights on and give them the key to the house and everything is going to be in order. The reality is we are less than 20 months

away, there are a variety of players at the table besides ourselves, consensus needs to be reached and that is almost next to impossible these days, with all the parties. So we need to put a blueprint on the table for discussion. That is what we are attempting to do here. Then we will, as they say in politics, knock it around and try to come to some consensus on how we move forward. We need to make sure our employees in Yellowknife, and it is primarily Yellowknife and I understand this is Mr. Ootes' concern, the business community et cetera, are aware of it.

But certainly the intent of my office is to make sure it is done in an orderly way. You cannot load people on 747s and leave and then impose in the land of opportunity, in Mr. Picco's riding of Iqaluit, that hive of political activity and entrepreneurial fervour, we cannot just automatically land all these bodies and all those opportunities on his doorstep to the detriment of the rest of Nunavut. The intent here is to put a comprehensive, well laid out pre-implementation plan in place and again, I am emphasizing because it is important, bring all the players to the table to see if we can reach a consensus, and then move forward. Somebody said to me the other day that well, you know money seems to be the most critical issue. To me, the most critical issue is time, not money. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I agree with the Minister that time is extremely important, for both Nunavut and for us in the west. From what I have heard the Minister state, he mentioned August, so presumably we may have some possibility of having a look at a plan by early fall and no doubt we can consider that in the Legislative Assembly then to proceed. My concern always has been, of course, in doing it as the Minister said in an orderly fashion and in a well-staged fashion, so that it benefits Nunavut and us here in the west and minimizes the impact. Perhaps if the Minister could just confirm for me the timing, that by this fall we will be able to consider the implementation plan. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, in an ideal world we would hope that everybody will agree to whatever the blueprint is which will not happen in an orderly and timely way. There are just too many players at the table. It is going to take some negotiations, some give and take on all parties to reach some understanding of how we are going to move on this pre-implementation. My preference, as the Minister responsible for the division of the territories, would be that we move as early as this fall if it was at all possible. But certainly by the spring of 1998, at the latest, so we can get some government in place so that the new Legislative Assemblies can function. I think to delay it any longer would risk a great deal that I know this Assembly and all these Members do not want to risk. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. The Minister and I have talked and I appreciate his comments when he says start this fall. I have always been concerned about that Yellowknife needs an opportunity to adjust to the downsizing of government. I do not think that is a secret. We have had a tremendous impact. I wonder if the Minister could consider not to move too fast this fall and to start with the plan as originally envisioned in Footprints 2, of April 1998, I believe was originally the intended start to look at the transfers. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Knowing the extent it takes to get some minor legislation through this House, I have no doubt, given the inability sometimes for us to come to a consensus and reach an agreement in an orderly way, that Mr. Ootes may in fact have his way. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Question 543-13(4): Division Transition Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. On behalf of Mr. Rabesca, I would like to recognize some visitors from Wha Ti. The Chief, Isadore Zoe and his council. Welcome to the Assembly.

-- Applause

Oral questions. Mr. Steen.

Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the people of Holman Island are looking forward to the capital project taking place this year and allowing them to benefit in regards to job employment even though it is short term and seasonal. They are very concerned about whether or not the Holman Island Terminal Building project will be going ahead on schedule. Therefore, I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation if he could update us on that? Thank you.

Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1320

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we intend to put out a public tender for the Holman Island Terminal Building and as soon as we get the results of the tender documents, we will be able to move forward. The intention here is to try to have this project done in this year as much as possible. However, we have to wait until the tender documents are put forward in the beginning of July before we can really say what could happen. I understand the Member's concern of the communities, and we will try to do everything

we can to make sure that this project is done this year. Thank you.

Return To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister indicate when will the council know for sure whether the project is delayed for this year? At what point will this information be available? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, by early July we should have an indication about how this project is going to be handled. At that point in time we will inform the community. Between now and then we will work with the communities and look at the possible scenarios of trying to get the materials on site. As you know, Mr. Speaker, Holman Island requires a sea lift of some sort to bring material in and we have to take that into consideration. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Question 544-13(4): Holman Island Air Terminal
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister in charge of Division, Mr. Todd. It concerns the phone calls I have been receiving over the last couple of days. There is a bit of anxiety in my riding concerning the construction of the new building to house the Nunavut Legislature. I wonder if the Minister could update us on the status of that project and maybe give some background. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe my colleague has asked about the new decadent Legislative Assembly building that may be required for Iqaluit for our new Nunavut Legislative Assembly. That is an infrastructure issue, Mr. Speaker, and I do not really have an update on what NTI or the federal government is doing in relation to that facility.

Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sometimes when we talk about decadence it is a good thing, like eating a nice piece of ice cream. I will take Mr. Todd's decadence in that way. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a supplementary question then to the Minister. If he is not updated on that project at NTI, can the Minister then inform this House if the GNWT has had any input on the building of a new legislative building for the Nunavut government? Once we are moving forward, as Mr. Todd just said, the time is getting shorter and everything, if we do not have a place to meet, a dedicated building, then it is all for naught. Can Mr. Todd update us on that area? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (microphone off) ...my honourable colleague was not suggesting, for one minute, that Nunavut is all for naught because we do not have a Legislative Assembly building. The thing is I believe that is just what he said. This Assembly operated for many, many years, for as long as I can remember, long before Mr. Picco's time, without a Legislative Assembly building. This government is more concerned about ensuring that there is adequate money in place so that our people can be housed, can be clothed, have education, et cetera and we have no desire at this time to spend an inordinate amount of time on the decadence of new Legislative Assembly buildings. Thank you.

-- Applause

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

Edward Picco Iqaluit

He really wants to try to raise my ire today, but I will not fall for it. It is the last day of the sitting, Mr. Speaker, and I promised my wife this morning that I would be as diplomatic as possible when dealing with the honourable Member. My supplementary question to the man with much rhetoric and no substance, is, what is this government involved in with the construction of the new building? Is this government being asked on the direction of where the building should be built? Are we being asked what size this building should be? What type of logistic information are we providing for the building of this Legislative Building in Iqaluit? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1321

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (microphone off) ... is like a spring puddle, shallow and you can see right through it. Mr. Speaker, it is not a priority for this government at this stage of the game with respect to the Legislative Assembly building. I do not care, shame wherever you want. The bottom line is that we are more concerned about paying

attention to adequate fiscal formulas in place to meet the essential service for the people that we represent, both in this Gallery and in the future gallery in Nunavut. At this time in our discussions with the federal government and the partnership, our focus is on the fiscal side of things, not necessarily the assets. It is far more important to deal with people rather than buildings. Thank you.

-- Applause

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, for the love of water. I am only asking a question on the construction of a facility that could employ people. Mr. Speaker, we are talking about unemployment. The legislative construction will create employment not only for people in Iqaluit, from the other regions of Nunavut who could come to Iqaluit and work on constructing this building. The Minister would like to paint it as some type of greedy grab or something. Mr. Speaker, again I follow up with my supplementary question to this rhetoric miser on exactly when the construction of this building is anticipated and will it be in place on April 1, 1999?

Supplementary To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

John Todd Keewatin Central

I could have fun with that one, Mr. Speaker, but I will not. It is difficult to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves. Mr. Speaker, I think what I was trying to say to my colleague in a serious vein and to the audience is, the Legislative Assembly building was symbolic maybe in nature has little or no impact on the quality of life of the people that we represent. What is important for this government, at least for this government, and this Cabinet, and the division's secretariat, is we pay attention to the fundamental needs and essential needs of the people that we represent. That is what we are doing in this exercise. That is what I am going to continue to do, because at the end of the deal we have to ensure us all affordable, equitable and ultimately it is going to be for the betterment of the constituency that we all represent. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Question 545-13(4): Nunavut Legislative Assembly
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Roland.

Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Speaker, in the area of income support and investing in people, I believe we have come a long way in trying to change things to make them better for the people of the territories, but the concerns being raised in the area of those people who are being put in places that employers would take them on so that they can continue to receive their income support. Question is being raised about whose responsibility it is for the WCB because these people, although they are not officially employees of a company that takes them on, are working on a job site. Who is responsible for WCB? Thank you.

Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding of the situation is that if a person is employed and receiving a wage from an employer, whether that be for part-time work or any basis, the employer is responsible for paying the Worker's Compensation Board premiums. Those income support recipients who are participating in the program the Member refers to receive an allowance, but it is a training allowance. It is not considered a wage. If they are participating in a business setting, they are probably receiving training rather than working unless they are receiving a wage. I guess it would depend on whether or not they are receiving training at the work site or if they are performing work and being paid by the employer. If the employer is, in fact, paying a wage, then the employer must pay the Workers' Compensation Board premiums.

Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If somebody is receiving income support and going on to a site that is considered training, but if an employer is actually paying beyond the income support allowance, then it becomes the responsibility of the people that take him on? Clarification needs to be that income support allowance being provided to those people who go to a job site and work there, they are actually receiving training, so that is the approach that is being taken? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1322

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, income support payments are not considered wages. Therefore, there would not be any Workers' Compensation Board premiums due on them. People who are participating in Investing In People may receive a training allowance that is paid directly by the income support program, but if they are also receiving payments from the employer, then the employer would owe Workers' Compensation Board premiums on those payments.

Further Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that will go a long way in clarifying the situation for the workers that are putting these people in places for training. Along the lines of the income support and placements, is there an amount of time allotted to these people who go to these sites to receive their assistance. To receive a certain amount of allowance, if it is a $100 or $400, is there an amount of time allotted to receive that and be considered or have been considered putting in your time? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, each of the Programs would have its own criteria for the training that is being received by participants. The supervisors or teachers or instructors of the Investing In People program will determine what a typical classroom and perhaps a workplace training day might consist of and they will determine whether or not the allowance would be paid. I believe the allowance is about $10 a day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: Wcb Premiums
Question 546-13(4): Employer Responsibilities Re: WCB Premiums
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq.

Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be talking in the Inuktitut language. In Pangnirtung the Uqqurmiut print shop is owned by the government in the amount of 51 percent. When April 1, 1999, comes around I wonder how the print shop will be operated? Will it be operated by economic development? How is it going to be done? Thank you. (Translation ends)

Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, these types of questions will be dealt with through the process set up by the Legislature to look at an equitable means of dividing up the assets and liabilities presently owned by the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Question 547-13(4): Ownership Of Pangnirtung Print Shop
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, last session I had put in a written question asking about staff training participation levels. Today I received a reply from the honourable Minister Todd. Unfortunately, the information is a little bit lacking. I had included the graph outline of the information I wanted and the information I received, while it does tell how many people took government staff training, it does not indicate the amount of people who took it who were management and who were not management. Similarly, it does not indicate how many people took more than one course. I had specifically written in my request that I wanted the information of how many people took two, three, four, or more than four courses. What I am asking the Premier is if he could commit to sharing that information with me, since that is what I have requested? Thank you.

Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will make a commitment to the Member that I will review his letter with the Minister of Finance to see if we can give him the information that he requested. Thank you.

Return To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This last reply took almost three months. Would the Premier undertake to do this a little bit quicker than this last reply took, please?

Supplementary To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Members know we have reduced our civil servants and senior management of this government. We have reduced the civil servants throughout the government, and are still trying to handle the day to day requests of Members of the Legislative Assembly. I have told Members of the Legislative Assembly before that approximately 50 percent of our senior management time is now spent replying or responding to issues or concerns raised in this House by Members. We will try to get the response to the Member in a timely fashion. I hope it does not take three months. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Question 548-13(4): Staff Training Information
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1323

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Safety and Public Services or Renewable Resources. In my constituency of Pond Inlet, there are young people who are going to school. They have two adults and one non-aboriginal individual. The ice broke off into the sea when they were doing training. I just wondered whether the Minister responsible for Safety is going to be

assisting those people that are out in an ice flow. Thank you. (Translation ends)

Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Thompson.

Return To Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member's constituents that are out on the ice are being looked after by my department and I have been getting day to day information from my staff. They have used a helicopter to make sure that they are safe and people are not worried about them at this time, although they are out floating on the ice. The MACA staff is also informed about what is happening and they are being looked after. Thank you. (Translation ends)

Return To Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Question 549-13(4): Assistance To Ice-bound Constituents
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the Keewatin Health Board tendered a multi-million dollar contract for medevac services in the Keewatin. It is my understanding that this contract to date has not been awarded, some nine months later. My question to the Minister is when will this contract be awarded? Is the Minister not concerned with such a lengthy delay in the awarding of the contract and the possibility of significant savings once the tenders are reviewed and awarded?

Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the question because the honourable Member did raise it a couple of days ago with the Premier. I am not certain as to the reasoning for the Keewatin Regional Health Board's actions on this particular contract. In fact, I am not even certain if it was a tender or proposal call. I will check into the matter. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that the Keewatin and all regional health authorities have the latitude to make decisions where they think tenders can be called to achieve some cost efficiencies if they think there is enough competition to warrant some economies in putting it out for public proposal call, Mr. Speaker. I do not know the reasons of why they did, first of all, not follow up if it was a tender or in the case of if it was a proposal call. The reasonings might have come to light in some of the evaluation of the proposals that may have been submitted by proponents in the Keewatin region. I will check into that matter and get back to the honourable Member. Thank you.

Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the second part of my question was, I asked the Minister was he not concerned with such a lengthy delay, given the size of the contract and the possibility of savings that could be passed on to the public in this time of fiscal restraint?

Supplementary To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no I am not particularly concerned about the delay. If there were significant cost savings as a result of the proposals or the tender, I am sure the Keewatin Regional Health and Social Services Board would have taken advantage of that opportunity to reduce some of their operating costs in respect to medical travel in order that they could have passed on any potential savings into some of their other programs. So like I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, I do not know specifically the rationale for why any decisions would have been made to not fulfil or go forward in finalizing any proposal calls that might have been received by the Keewatin Regional Health and Social Services Board. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1324

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Just to remind the Members with regard to recognition of visitors in the gallery, the rule is pretty straightforward regarding it, with the exception of the 30 second time requirement for that. A cautionary measure; if you cannot recognize each individual within that time frame, then I would suggest that you just recognize them as a delegation because it would be unfair not to name all of them if you do not have that time to do it. Written questions. Mr. Picco.

Further Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1325

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to seek unanimous consent to go back to oral questions.

Further Return To Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Question 550-13(4): Contract For Keewatin Medevac Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Iqaluit is seeking unanimous consent to returns to oral questions. Do we have any nays? Mr. Picco, you do not have unanimous consent. Written questions. Mr. Ootes.

Written Question 31-13(4): Cost Of GNWT Staff Reductions
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1325

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister of Finance to provide this House with details of the costs to the territorial government of staff reductions. I would like to know the total figures, including but not limited to such costs as severance pay, ultimate removal and pension superannuation. Will the Minister provide this to me? Thank you.

Written Question 31-13(4): Cost Of GNWT Staff Reductions
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Written questions. Mr. Picco.

Written Question 32-13(4): Financing For Legislative Assembly Building
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1325

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. It is the dollar amount of money put into the construction of the Legislative Assembly building here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 32-13(4): Financing For Legislative Assembly Building
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Steen.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a letter, Tabled Document 87-13(4): Letter from Ada Cockney Re: Water Delivery Cutbacks, from Ada Cockney of Tuktoyaktuk and signed by her in regards to water delivery cutbacks.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 89-13(4): 1996 Housing Needs Survey: Overall Results Report No. 1, May 1997, the 1996 Housing Needs Survey Overall Results Report No. 1, May 1997. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Ms. Thompson

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 90-13(4): Proposed Bill: An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act, a proposed Bill entitled An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I also wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 91-13(4): Discussion Paper: Empowerment Through Community Government Legislation. Mr. Speaker, this is a discussion paper on the proposed changes to community government legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Tabling of documents. Mr. Krutko.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following document, Tabled Document: 92-13(4): May 1997 edition of "Delta Voices", which is a paper that has been published through the Mackenzie Delta Regional Council and also the Inuvik region.

-- Applause

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to request unanimous consent to waive rule 44 to proceed with Motion 18-13(4) on Extended Adjournment, which I gave notice of yesterday.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive rule 44. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent, Mr. Miltenberger.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central, that notwithstanding rule 4, that when this House adjourns on June 5, 1997 it shall be adjourned until Wednesday, October 1, 1997.

AND FURTHER, that any time prior to October 1, 1997 if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned at this time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to move an amendment to the motion.

I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member from Iqaluit, that Motion 18-13(4) be amended by substituting June 4, 1997 for June 5, 1997.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry. The amendment is in order. To the amendment. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The amendment is carried. To the motion, as amended. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried, as amended. Motions. Mr. Ootes.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to request unanimous consent to waive Rule 44 to proceed with Motion 19-13(4) on relocation of federal civil servants, which I gave notice of yesterday.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 16: Motions

Page 1325

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waiveRrule 44 to deal with Motion 19-13(4). Do we have any nays? Mr. Ootes, you have unanimous consent.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS, this government supports the devolution of federal program authorities and responsibilities and their concomitant resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS, federal public servants developing policies and delivering programs for Northwest Territories residents continue to reside in Canadian jurisdictions outside the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS, the development of federal policy and the delivery of federal programs on behalf of Northwest Territories residents is best facilitated by federal public servants residing in the policy and program target area, namely the Northwest Territories, in order to better realize the economic potential of the north and maximize the benefits to northerners;

AND WHEREAS, the effective and efficient delivery of federal programs and services to Northwest Territories residents will be enhanced by bringing delivery resources closer to the intended recipients;

AND WHEREAS, the location of federal public servants developing policies and deliveries programs to residents of the Northwest Territories is a federal responsibility;

NOW THEREFORE, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit, that the Legislative Assembly request that the Premier immediately communicate with the Prime Minister to request that a comprehensive listing of all federal civil service positions dedicated to policy development and programming in the Northwest Territories which are currently located in the southern jurisdictions be provided by September 30, 1997;

AND FURTHER, that the Premier, in communicating this request, suggest to the Prime Minister that this exercise commence with the mineral, oil and gas functions currently residing within the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development;

AND FURTHERMORE, upon receipt of the comprehensive listing, request that the Premier initiate discussions with the appropriate federal Ministers to facilitate the relocation of identified federal positions to the Northwest Territories as an interim step towards the eventual devolution of authority and programs from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ootes, your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say a few words in support of this motion. This is, to me, a very constructive proposal for all of us to improve our program delivery here in the north and to replenish job losses. The federal government has a responsibility to us and a golden opportunity here to meet that need. This can be good news for all of us and assist our ailing economies. I understand there are about 50 people up to the ADM level working at the Northern Affairs section in Ottawa. This staff includes the Devolution Secretariat and the Nunavut Secretariat which, I understand, has about four people in Ottawa in addition to those in Iqaluit. Other areas where transfers from Northern Affairs may be feasible include the Natural Resources and Environment branch, Mineral Resources Directorate, Northern Oil and Gas, and Sector Policy and Program Development. Understand in land claims there are anomalies. Claims people working in BC and the Yukon are located in those regions, but in the NWT the people for the self-government section are located in Ottawa and there is no clear distinction or reason for this. There are areas outside DIAND where transfers might be feasible. The aboriginal branch in Justice, northern pipelines, the national energy boards monitoring compliance functions, human resource development, on and on it goes.

Some general points. I think the federal civil service will do a better job of understanding northern issues and delivering programs if the people they serve are in the north, not located in southern Canada.

Communications - if that is a concern to those civil servants, the NWT is making a large investment in digital communication networks and federal civil servants will be able to take advantage of this resource for advanced, low cost communications with their headquarters. Mr. Speaker, the idea of job transfers is not new. It has been around for years, but we have to focus it. I feel my motion today will focus attention on this to get this accomplished. We have a new Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs coming on stream fairly shortly. It is a good initiative for us to take forward to he or she when that person takes office. I am seeking support for my motion with those arguments, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seconded the motion because I also agree with what Mr. Ootes has to say. I would like to add, also, that the job transfers will not only benefit the Yellowknife area or in Iqaluit, but also the total Northwest Territories. I think the ending of the colonization of the territories is at that point now where we are getting close to 1999 and that those types of positions which are monitoring or facilitating development of departmental work in Ottawa should be transferred back and I support and endorse the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Krutko.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1326

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the motion, it is a grand idea but I believe we are missing one crucial component of it, which has a major effect to any transfers of indian affairs to the north, is the aboriginal community in regards to them endorsing this initiative. We talked about a Northern Accord and the transfer of resources, programs, and services. I believe that especially in regards to the Northern Accord which we have learned that it is critical that we have the support of the aboriginal community on side in relation to any transfers to the Northwest Territories. I think that element is missing from this motion. I would like to either

have the mover or the seconder consider maybe an amendment with the endorsement that the aboriginal community also support this initiative prior to that initiative taking place. I believe that is an element that is missing and I would like to see it in this motion if possible before we vote on it. Thank you.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members are all entitled to speak to the motion, including making amendments if they feel that an amendment is required. To the motion. Mr. Morin.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to make sure that the public in general fully understand that this government is working aggressively on this issue already. It is not a new issue to us. We have already talked to the Minister of DIAND and we are following up with our MP as well as following up on the whole issue of moving person years from Ottawa to the Northwest Territories. I see step number one to be, devolution of powers to the Northwest Territories. The whole principle of people that make decisions that effect the Northwest Territories being able to live in the Northwest Territories is a principle I can fully accept and support. I thank the two Members for raising this issue. Like I said previously, it is the intent of this government to do that and I thank them for raising the motion. Thank you.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know how Jake received my motion. Seriously, Mr. Speaker, I am speaking in favour of this motion. It is very important that the people that are making decisions and delivering programs and services to the north are actually in the north. I also agree with Mr. Krutko that we should be getting the approval and support of the aboriginal people. Perhaps we could ask the aboriginal governments to pass motions in support of this with whatever variation that they wish to include, of course, at their annual assemblies, because most of the aboriginal governments have their annual assemblies in the summertime and I am sure that many of us will be attending those assemblies and I am sure Mr. Antoine has most of them on his agenda. I know that a few other people also do. Thank you.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ootes, do you have any closing remarks?

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I request a recorded vote, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife Centre is requesting recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte

Mr. Ootes, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Henry, Mr. Steen, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Barnabas, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Picco, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Roland, and Mr. Miltenberger.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. All those opposed to the motion, please stand. All those abstaining to the motion, please stand.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte

Mr. Ng, Mrs. Thompson, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Morin, Mr. Todd, Mr. Arlooktoo, Mr. Dent, Mr. Krutko.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 16: Motions

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The result of the recorded vote. Twelve for, no against, eight abstentions. This motion is passed. Motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Ms. Thompson.

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kitikmeot, that Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 19 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Ms. Thompson.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I seek consent to proceed with second reading of Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Aivilik is seeking consent to deal with Bill 19. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Ms. Thompson, you have consent.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1327

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the Charter Communities Act, the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, and the Hamlets Act, to:

-allowing municipalities to borrow from an expanded range of lenders prescribed by regulations;

-remove the restriction that municipalities borrow on a temporary basis from banks only;

-allow municipalities to borrow on a long term basis by means other than by debentures only; and

-remove the requirement that municipalities provide information in the long term borrowing bylaw that is usually unknown at the time that the long term borrowing bylaw is made.

In respect of a municipal taxing authority:

-remove the requirement for the municipality to forward a long term debt security to the Minister before it is issued or entered into and for the Minister to countersign it;

-clarify that municipality may be required to redeem a long term debt security only where a municipality is borrowing from the Government of the Northwest Territories; and

-clarify other procedural or interpretive difficulties in respect of borrowing in the various acts.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1328

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the principal of the Bill. Question has been called. All those in favour. All those opposed. The motion is carried. Bill 19 has had second reading and accordingly the Bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Mr. Krutko.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1328

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 7, written questions.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1328

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to go back to item 7, written questions. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko, you have unanimous consent.

Written Question 33-13(4): Availability Of Legal Aid For Family Law Issues
Revert To Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1328

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Justice. Can the Minister answer the following questions:

1. Can a person receiving legal aid deal with child support maintenance issues in court?

2. Do parents seeking child support and maintenance have different access to legal aid than parents fighting for support and maintenance orders?

3. In the area of maintenance, can the list of legal aid recipients by gender, male, female, within the last five years be provided?

4. If a person is not eligible for legal aid, what other actions in regards to legal counselling and other alternatives are available to them?

Thank you.

-- Applause

Written Question 33-13(4): Availability Of Legal Aid For Family Law Issues
Revert To Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1328

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Written questions. Back to item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Committee Report 17-13(4), with Mr. Steen in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1328

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I call the committee to order. Since we only have one item on the agenda, we will return to that item after we take a 15 minute break. Thank you.

-- Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1328

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I would like to call the committee back to order. On the agenda for the committee for deliberations we have Committee Report 7-13(4), Report of the Working Group on Affirmative Action and Human Resource Management. At this time I would like to ask Mr. Erasmus, the chairman of Government Operations, if he would like to make any further comments or statements in regards to this committee report.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1328

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other day I had made a few opening comments on this report that the four of us worked on. There was myself as the chairman, Seamus Henry, Michael Miltenberger and Ed Picco, who were a sub-committee of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and of course the Government Operations Committee did accept the report, endorsed it. What I would like to do is provide a short summary of some of the recommendations just to facilitate discussion and so the general public will have some type of an overview of the main recommendations that we made. We did break up the report into different sections so that it is easier to read and so that the recommendations are grouped together in various areas. After each section I will pause so if there are any Members that wish to ask questions on those particular recommendations, the Members can ask questions.

Affirmative Action Recommendation 1 - We recommend that the Premier and his Cabinet issue a public statement, making a commitment to the Affirmative Action Policy.

Since taking office in November 1995, the Members of the 13th Assembly have stressed the need to lead by example. We did this in the deficit management plan by reducing our pensions and eliminating automatic increases to our indemnities.

In the House, Members have repeatedly reminded the Cabinet that we must also lead by example in our senior management hiring. Theoretically, all hiring is subject to the Affirmative Action Policy. In reality, there appears to be some discretion in the hiring process for excluded employees and significant discretion for management, particularly at the deputy minister level. The more senior a position is, the more personal suitability plays a role in the hiring decision. The Members of the working group believe that this discretion results in a continuation of the hiring practices of the past, hiring practices which have not been successful in moving towards a representative workforce.

During the public consultation in 1995, a common concern and perception was that the politicians and senior managers do not buy into affirmative action. The recent senior management hiring from southern Canada seems to send a silent message throughout the organization and to the public about the government's commitment to affirmative action.

The Premier's public statement should include a commitment to promote and develop northerners, from the top of the organization to the bottom. The statement should also be clear about the emphasis the government will place on employment equity. Without a strong public signal of support for the changes recommended in this report, significant change and progress is doubtful.

Affirmative Action Recommendation 2 - We recommend that the GNWT change the name of the Affirmative Action policy to Employment Equity.

The recommendations proposed by the working group represent a shift in philosophy. The proposals are based on changing the corporate culture. Ensuring a representative work force should not be something people have to do but that all managers and Ministers see as something they want to do. We believe strongly that investing in northern employees can only benefit the north. This is their home, they understand the environment and the cultures, and they are working to make things better for their own future.

If the government intends to make a fresh start in addressing the lack of northerners in the workforce, there is a need for a new name, such as employment equity, which will reflect a new attitude and more proactive, positive approach.

This recommendation is closely tied to the other recommendations in this report. A name change is not enough. It must be part of a broader package of changes to the policy.

Affirmative Action Recommendation 3 - We recommend that the following revisions be made to the Affirmative Action Policy:

1. Representation goals by occupational grouping and region should be set.

2. There should be an annual assessment of the hiring priorities. In occupational groups in a region where representation goals have been reached, hiring priority would not apply.

The current Affirmative Action Policy provides blanket hiring priority across the government. There are a number of concerns with this approach:

•This is a policy without focus - it does not have specific goals which could be addressed;

•There is no monitoring to determine when representation has been reached;

•The statistics do not show where representation has been achieved or even exceeded;

•It results in on-going priority where it is no longer needed; and

•Only reporting overall statistics does not show the true picture - a lack of affirmative action employees outside of entry level positions and trades.

The experience of other jurisdictions shows that while specific priority may be necessary to initially reach representation, affirmative action works best when it is done because managers want to rather than because they have to.

There has been some success with the policy. In entry level positions and trades, it appears we have not only reached representation but actually gone beyond. There has also been greater success in some regions than in others. A policy which had goals based on regions and occupational groups would allow the Assembly and the public to see the areas of success as well as those where more work is required.

Maintaining hiring priority where it is not required creates resentment among others interested in applying for work. There should be a way to measure specific occupational groups and determine when representation has been reached. At that point, the policy should no longer apply.

Occupational groupings currently in place could be used:

- management

- professional

- technical

- administrative services

- labour & trades

- program delivery.

Due to the need to have reasonably large populations, the following regional groups should be used:

- Keewatin

- Baffin

- Kitikmeot

- Inuvik

- Fort Smith

- Headquarters.

We have recommended that headquarters' staff should reflect the entire NWT because that is the population they serve. However, staff in Yellowknife who are in positions classified as regional or local should reflect the region they serve, similar to staff in other regions.

We believe that there must be a more focused approach to ensuring a representative workforce. Critical to the success of this recommendation is regular and accurate information. Based on our past experience, we know this will test the adequacy of the GNWT information systems.

We have a concern about departments falling back to old habits. If departments are not forced to hire northerners, will they? The policy should require regular reassessment. This would be the safeguard, ensuring that priority would be applied again as soon as employment levels of affirmative action candidates fell below the level of representation.

We discussed the concept of representation and whether it should be based on the general population or the labour force. There were good arguments for either approach. The majority of members believe that the GNWT staff should be representative of the people they serve. They argue that representation goals should be based on the general population which is the people the government serves.

The government will need to set representation goals. Those representation goals should take into account the need for a strong pool of candidates at each level for promotion to the next level within the organization. In a Human Rights case from the NWT, it was ruled that GNWT representation goals beyond representation based on population was acceptable because there was a need for a larger pool of potential affirmative action candidates. For example, representation may be 35 percent but the representation goal could be 40, 45 or even 50 percent. For many of the occupational groups, representation goals should be set higher than actual representation rates to ensure sufficient candidates for promotion.

Affirmative Action Recommendation 4 - We recommend that the definition of long-term northerner be revised to include anyone who has been a resident of the NWT for at least ten continuous years, immediately prior to applying under this priority.

The current policy provides hiring priority for long term northerners. It identifies a long term northerner as someone who was born in the NWT or who has lived more than half their life here. When the definition of long term northerner was added to the policy in 1989, this definition was, in part, an attempt to address young people who had grown up side by side with each other, aboriginal and non-aboriginal. By including long term northerners in the policy, it recognizes the inherent value to the government in hiring people who have made a commitment to living in the NWT, regardless of cultural background.

One of the difficulties with the current definition is that it amounts to a form of discrimination against people who moved to the north as an adult. Although they make a commitment to the north and their communities, they are often at the end of their career before they qualify as a long term northerner.

We looked carefully at how to revise the definition to address this concern. We wanted to stick with the intent of giving priority to people who had made the north their home. There is no way to determine when someone moves to the north how long they will stay. However, looking at GNWT employment statistics, the greatest drop-off is between five and ten years of service. With this in mind, we decided that someone who has stayed for at least ten years is probably going to stick around.

While many jurisdictions give local hiring preference, this priority category has always been open to possible challenge under the charter of rights and freedoms. While the government can clearly demonstrate the need for specific hiring priorities for aboriginal people to address past disadvantage, demonstrating this disadvantage for long term northerners is more difficult. By greatly expanding this priority group, this may become more of an issue.

The title of this priority group should be changed from "indigenous non-aboriginal" to "long-term northerner".

Affirmative Action Recommendation 5 - We recommend that the definition of indigenous aboriginal person be revised to more clearly address southern aboriginal people.

Priority One should become "northern aboriginal person". We recommend that the definition of northern aboriginal person should be changed to be an aboriginal person who was born in the NWT or who has spent at least ten years in the NWT immediately prior to applying for priority.

We believe this is more consistent with the policy's objective.

In applying this definition, there should be a degree of flexibility. The definition could include some aboriginal northerners who were born outside the NWT because their parents were attending school or had short term employment elsewhere in Canada.

Affirmative Action Recommendation 6 - We recommend that the GNWT back up the philosophy of affirmative action/employment equity with dollars to support training and other initiatives.

We have not recommended any new initiatives which would involve one-time new money. However, we have suggested areas where there is a need for funds to provide an on-going base. When departments had to reduce their budgets in the past two years, one of the areas affected was staff training and development. If we are committed to a representative workforce, we have to recognize that sound human resources practices are necessary and there is a cost associated with developing our staff.

For every manager dedicated to developing and supporting staff, there are times when they will need money to provide opportunities. If affirmative action is really going to work, there must be a reasonable allocation of funds for human resource management.

Those are the six recommendations particularly in the affirmative action area. If there are any further comments from the committee Members, they could mention them now. Are there any questions by any Members on these six recommendations?

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Are there any comments or questions for the committee chair regarding the committee report? Minister Todd.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, only to say that we did receive the report. We appreciate the efforts being made by those involved in this delicate issue of employment and who gets what, and we will be analyzing that from an FMBS perspective. We will be reporting back to the committee as quickly as we can. Thank you.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Are there any general comments or questions? Mr. Ootes.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make some comments in regards to the report. I have reviewed this and while I support the principle that government employment should reflect the makeup of the northern population, I am still somewhat skeptical about the ability of an affirmative action policy to meet this goal. I think the committee is to be commended for the work it has done, especially on the report before us. There are many good recommendations in this. Unfortunately, I still have some wariness. I think the report we are discussing today depends on the success of the Affirmative Action Policy being devised as a policy that managers want to follow, not something they have to follow. I think that needs to be there and the committee rightly points this out, that this change depends on our ability to create a competent and competitive northern labour pool.

I agree with the committee's recommendations on supporting affirmative action through programs that promote education, on the job training and promotion of skilled individuals. I believe these measures will do more in the long run to create a representative workforce than the strict imposition of demographic ratios. In time, Mr. Chairman, I hope this government has no need of an Affirmative Action Policy. I believe that a skilled resident northern labour force will always do a better job certainly over labour imported from other regions of the country and it will help us create a community in which people compete for jobs on an equal footing without resentment created by those who feel they have lost opportunities because of the Affirmative Action Policy. Unfortunately, we cannot raise a magic wand and produce the kind of workforce that we all want.

There are some areas of concern in this report, Mr. Chairman. One for example, perhaps one of the Members of the committee could address for me, speaks about the 10 year residency to be an affirmative action candidate and the promotion of individuals within the government. Hypothetically, for example, if there was an affirmative action candidate with one year government experience and there was also a candidate...let us say the affirmative action candidate was aboriginal but we had another individual with nine year's government experience and only nine years northern residency and there was a promotion in order, who would get the promotion? Because the individual with the nine years government experience and the nine years northern residency would not be considered as a northerner. So perhaps I could get an answer to that question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. For the benefit of the committee Members, I would like to point out that the Affirmative Action Committee Report that we are dealing with here seems to be divided into four separate sections and, at this point in time, the chairman, Mr. Erasmus has only addressed the Affirmative Action Employment Equity section of the report. Perhaps general comments on the whole report would be in order. However, we should wait until Mr. Erasmus has reached those specific sections of the report. If I may, I believe it would be in order at this point in time to ask for general comments on the whole report. Are there any general comments on the whole report? Mr. Miltenberger.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have some very brief comments, having been a committee Member dealing with this issue. This is a very sensitive issue that has been before us for some time, going on years now. I think what we have put forward are very short term, pre-division options that can make some change and a lot of them come under the heading of basic, good management. We have an obligation, as an Assembly, to somehow deal with this Affirmative Action Policy as it now exists. We studied it interminably. We have consulted with the people. Now I think it is time to put something before them in terms of things that can be done, recognizing very clearly that after 1999 the two separate territories will probably have very clear and different perspectives on the need for an affirmative action or employment equity program.

I think we have done some fairly good work in a difficult situation. I would also like to say that I think we should be very careful about asking about hypothetical situations in relation to this program or clauses of this program that cannot be explored, that may not have a full amount of detail. It could only lead to greater confusion based on the hypothetical situation being stated. So I would ask Members to keep that in mind because I would be very reluctant, as a committee Member, to complicate or confuse this issue by speaking on hypothetical situations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1331

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. General comments on the whole report. Mr. Picco.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Just general comments? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to go back to some of the things that Mr. Ootes mentioned earlier. Although it is not a perfect document, I think that you have to look at the recommendations and the work that actually went into the report. I think a goal without a strategy is just a slogan and I think that we put goals and strategic plans within these recommendations to make it work. What we need from this report is the commitment from the government and the

Ministers to make sure that the recommendations are followed through. That is the type of commitment I would be looking forward to hearing from the Premier and his officials.

One of the things that kept coming up during the review of the Affirmative Action Policy was the accountability of middle managers and senior managers in the process, and it seemed that the hammer, as it were, was not being used to make sure that affirmative action candidates were indeed getting proper procedural hiring in different occupations and classifications. I think the report is trying to address that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. General comments on the report as a whole. Mr. Todd.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
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John Todd Keewatin Central

Just for clarification purposes, my understanding was that the committee was going to table the report, we were going to be given the appropriate time to respond to it and I do not really want to get into it unless of course, Mr. Picco is out there on his own. The process, my understanding is, well either we get an agreement on the process or we do not and my understanding is you were going to table the report, indicate what some of the key recommendations were, give this government time to review it in a careful and concise way, not in some ad hoc knee jerk way, and respond accordingly. If that is what we are doing here, Mr. Chairman, we are parties to the issue. If we are going to have a debate about what we have done and what we have not done, then I think it is inappropriate. That is all I am saying, nothing else. Due process.

Committee Report 7-13(4): Report Of The Working Group On Affirmative Action And Human Resource Management
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Todd, I think the committee is trying to put forward general comments on the report and, hopefully, questions would be directed toward the chairman of the Government Operations Committee, Mr. Erasmus, who is sponsoring the report, clarifying questions, whatever. I believe at some point in time this process that you refer to will be reached because this report, goes from here to the government. Therefore, I think we may be working towards what you are suggesting. At this point in time, I am dealing with general comments on the overall report. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is the point I was trying to get at, Mr. Chairman, I was not trying to circumvent the process and the protocol that was in place. I was just commenting on some comments I heard earlier and was making reference to the recommendations and the summary of recommendations as outlined by Mr. Erasmus. So I beg to differ with my fellow colleague, Mr. Todd, on this issue and hopefully now he is clear on my earlier comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. General comments on the overall report. If there are no further general comments on the overall report, I believe I have a question from Mr. Ootes to Mr. Erasmus as to long term northerners. Mr. Erasmus, are you still familiar with the question?

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While Mr. Miltenberger indicated that it is dangerous to put hypotheticals out and try to answer them, I will address this particular question. Actually, I have not reached that particular area that he was talking about concerning promoting people, but the intent of promoting people within this report is to bring people into areas where the affirmative action representation is low. So obviously a person who does not qualify as an affirmative action candidate would not be promoted in this area because they are simply not an affirmative action person so they would have no opportunity to be promoted. The whole intent of that particular thing is, where there is an area where only two percent of the staff are affirmative action candidates, whether they are aboriginal or longterm northerners, then we could promote someone from lower down who has qualifications and the rest of that, to promote them up. That is the short and sweet of it.

What I had hoped to do is perhaps get the general comments at the end, after each section if someone has a question on the recommendations that I have just finished, then someone ask a question, but do not go ahead of where I am.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I believe it was myself, as chair, that suggested that we address general comments previous to getting into specifics because I am just following the rules that are described for items for the committee. However, if it is the agreement of the committee that we put forward general comments at the end, then that is the way we will proceed. Is that the agreement of the committee? I do not seem to hear otherwise, so I presume that is the agreement of the committee, that we will have general comments after the chairman, Mr. Erasmus, has addressed all specific areas.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Any further questions to the section that Mr. Erasmus just finished identifying, the Affirmative Action Employment Equity section of the report? Mr. Erasmus, proceed with the second section of the report.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next section of the report discusses the hiring process.

Hiring Process Recommendation 1- We recommend that, every time a position is to be filled, the position description be reviewed to ensure the education and experience required accurately reflect the demands of the job.

Across the NWT, people said employees should be hired on merit. We believe that is happening now. Merit means deserving consideration or to be worthy. Anyone who has the required qualifications and is successful in the interview process has merit and is worthy of being considered for the job.

To be eligible for a position, a person needs to be qualified and suitable. Qualifications are determined during the screening process. A frequent comment about affirmative action applicants is that they are minimally qualified. There is no such things as minimally qualified. All applicants who meet the education and experience requirements are considered qualified.

Suitability is determined through the interview process. A person is suitable if they appear able to deliver the skills necessary in the workplace.

Through the Affirmative Action policy, the GNWT also applies priority to the hiring process. However, merit is always the key factor in determining which of the priority candidates should get the job.

There are some occupations where a specific degree or professional designation is necessary. For example, certain projects require an engineer to sign off or a journeyman to verify the qualify of work. Some documents must be signed by a lawyer.

However, there is also a strong element of credentialism in the education requirements of some positions. Requiring extensive educational background has been defended by some as necessary to preserve professional standards. Others see this as a way of using inflated educational requirements to prevent northerners from accessing positions in particular fields.

We need a balance. We need to ensure people are qualified for the positions they occupy. At the same time, we need to ensure that job descriptions are fair and accurate summaries of the job requirements. A good time to review job descriptions is just prior to staffing a position. Having accurate, up-to-date job descriptions should continue to be part of the staffing process.

Hiring Process Recommendation 2 - We recommend that at least three qualified candidates be interviewed for every job competition.

Members of the working group are aware of competitions where only one person was interviewed for a position. We were concerned with this for a couple of reasons.

When only one interview is done, there is often a perception that the successful candidate was pre-determined and the staffing competition was only a facade. Not only does this bring the staffing process into question, it can also lead to questions about the successful applicant's qualifications.

We are also concerned about time management. Staffing is a lengthy process. If only one person is interviewed, it is possible that they will not accept the job, they will do poorly on the interview, or there will be a problem with references. If this happens, the interview process begins again.

Limiting the interview process to only one person places too much weight on the applicants' resumes. A resume only gives a snapshot of a person's background. It does not tell you how they will deal with other people or how they react on the job.

Applicants called to an interview usually make an effort to prepare. Knowing this, we looked at the argument that, if there is only one affirmative action candidate, it is a waste of time to interview the other candidates. On the other hand, people applying on government jobs are aware of the affirmative action policy and can expect that final decisions may be made based on the policy.

We recognize that, on rare occasion, there may be competitions where there are only one or two qualified applicants. However, we also recognize that determining qualified candidates with equivalencies is not an exact science. In these cases, the staffing panel should use their discretion in determining who to interview. As a general rule, we believe a full slate of interviews is appropriate in all cases.

Hiring Process Recommendation 3 - We recommend that an appeals process be established for management and excluded positions.

Staffing is very difficult. For every vacant position, there are many people competing for the position but only one winner. It is, therefore, important that applicants can be assured that the staffing was handled according to the GNWT guidelines and in a fair manner.

For GNWT positions included in the UNW bargaining unit, people who apply and have a concern with the results of the competition can appeal the staffing decision. This process is a joint effort between the government and the Union of Northern Workers. It is one of the tools necessary to ensure that competitions are carried out fairly.

For excluded and management positions, there is no appeal mechanism. This leaves managers with far more flexibility in how they follow the staffing guidelines. It also leaves applicants with uncertainty about whether their application received equitable consideration. We felt that there should be consistency from the top to the bottom of the organization.

Appeals add time when staffing a position. However, having a staffing process which is as objective as possible is important and worth the slight inconvenience of a delay in filling the position.

An appeals process for management and excluded positions does not have to be identical to the process for bargaining unit positions. However, we believe there should be some remedy for applicants, to ensure that the staffing guidelines are followed at all levels of the organization.

Within the GNWT, there is a personnel secretariat which is responsible for establishing staffing policy and monitoring staffing practices. This secretariat is lead by an assistant deputy minister. We would like to suggest that appeals of excluded and management positions should be handled by the assistant deputy minister, personnel secretariat or one of his senior staff. This individual would interview the applicant and the staffing panel and review the competition file. They could provide similar remedies as available under the union appeal process.

Hiring Process Recommendation 4 - We recommend the use of directed hiring practices to increase representation in the workforce.

At the present time, staffing competitions are supposed to be open to any applicants and advertised publicly. One of the benefits of this approach is that the general public should be aware of all job openings. It is also intended to reduce the potential for favouritism and nepotism in the hiring process.

There are a few drawbacks to having positions filled through open competition. It limits the opportunity to promote promising affirmative action candidates. It is also a drawback in career planning. Sometimes, a manager will have an excellent employee who they would like to promote, knowing the employee would do the job well. However, the employee's education or experience may not be at the level required when the job is advertised.

In order to use the hiring process to increase representation, we recommend that two approaches be used for specific positions:

1. Advertising some positions as only open to all affirmative action candidates; and

2. Using the direct appointment mechanism to promote or give priority to affirmative action candidates for positions in occupational groups where representation has not been attained.

Other jurisdictions use restricted (closed) competitions to promote individuals from a designated group. The use of these competitions is successful, particularly where the department recognizes a need to encourage affirmative action candidates in a specific occupation. Restricted competitions are often used for positions which are designed as training opportunities for affirmative action candidates.

There are positions which are filled without being advertised, through direct appointments and contracts. For example, some of the recent senior management appointments were done this way. While there is some concern about the use of direct appointments, this can be a valuable tool for promoting affirmative action employees who are ready for advancement. The GNWT hiring guidelines already suggest direct appointments can be used to support affirmative action. Managers should consider this as one option in career planning for their staff.

This recommendation is closely linked to Affirmative Action Recommendation 3. It provides one possible mechanism for achieving the representation goals.

Hiring Process Recommendation 5 - We recommend that a student employment office be established in each region, operated where possible by students.

In previous years, there was a student employment office run by students in Yellowknife and some of the other regional centres. This provided a central source of information for departments. It also made it easier for students, who only had to provide their application to one government location.

With the decentralization of personnel functions to departments, students must apply at a number of locations. They do not have a single person who can help them assess the availability of possible jobs. It also makes it more difficult for departments to know who is still available and who is employed.

Students have a very short time to find employment. They cannot afford to miss even one possible job because they did not get their resume to every location. A central registry of student applications would make things easier for both students and departments.

It is important to note that while this recommendation addresses student employment, these concerns apply to all casual hiring.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I will see if there are any Members that wish to ask questions in this particular area. The clock is ticking.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Any questions on this particular area? Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I think there are some really good recommendations in here on a number of areas, but there are areas I am concerned about and that I have a question with. For instance, it has a statement here, "We are particularly concerned because management is not representative of the people the government serves." Well, that may or may not be true because my understanding is most of the managers, certainly in the senior end, have been in the north for more than ten years. Now if we are going to classify them as northerners, then they are northerners and they fall under the Affirmative Action Policy, to me that statement is questionable and perhaps one of the Members could address that. On the student employment, I think that is a good recommendation. I spoke, myself, about the need to address this concern for a central employment area for students. It is true, they are running around, building to building et cetera, and there are other areas that are of concern. The student employment office I think would be a good idea to follow up with. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Erasmus, do you wish to respond?

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, we did not have enough time to address all the student issues and the casual hiring issues that we had wanted to and we still intend to do something in this area. As for management, a lot of them being here for ten years, obviously that would address one priority that is within the government's affirmative action, that is if they change it to 10 years. Certainly, we know that we are not only talking northerners here, long term northerners, we are talking about the aboriginal side as well and we are also talking about women. Those areas would also have to be addressed. We are not only talking about addressing one priority, there are other people, other than long term northerners who have affirmative action status.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Are there further questions from the Members on this specific section? If there are no further questions, Mr. Erasmus, would you like to proceed?

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next area that we made recommendations on, of course while a lot of these do include affirmative action but we do have them under headings. This one is in the human resource management area.

Human Resource Recommendation 1 - We recommend that the GNWT develop clear accountability measures in the area of human resources management for both Ministers and deputy ministers

As we mentioned earlier, most successful government departments and private corporations support employees from hiring to retirement. Career planning and professional development for staff are important parts of a manager's responsibilities.

The changes resulting from the GNWT's deficit management plan have had a severe impact on the morale of government employees. In order to achieve some sense of stability, to promote northern employees, and to maintain levels of service with fewer staff, it is critical that the GNWT place more emphasis on strong human resource management.

We see the need for greater accountability at two levels. Standing Committees should hold Ministers accountable for the human resource practices within their departments. As well, Ministers should place a greater emphasis on human resource management in evaluating deputy minister performance.

Human Resource Recommendation 1.1 - We recommend that the departmental business plans should include specific human resource management information.

Responsibility for evaluation of the deputy ministers rests with the Ministers and there is no role for Ordinary Members in those evaluations. However, there is a clear role for the standing committees in evaluating the human resource management within each department.

We recommend that the business plans provided by the departments should include a new section addressing human resource management. This section should include elements such as:

- positions by community, pre- and post-budget

- affirmative action statistics

- departmental turnover

- retention rates

- performance evaluation completion rates

- exit interview completion rates

- summary of orientation available for new staff

- staff development opportunities

- number of internships/developmental assignments available to assist entry into professional fields

Departments should also provide interim reports with the same information to standing committees in early March each year.

Human Resource Recommendation 1.2 - We recommend that human resource management should have a much greater emphasis in deputy ministers' evaluations.

There would appear to be three areas that should form the basis of a deputy's evaluation

- How a department's programs operate;

- How the deputy minister manages the budget; and

- How the people in the department are managed.

The Premier has repeatedly stated that deputies will be evaluated, in part, on their success with affirmative action. We agree that human resource management, including affirmative action, should be part of a deputy minister's performance evaluation.

Currently, human resource management would seem to be a small part of the evaluation. We reached this conclusion because, while human resource statistics for departments are either unavailable or reflect a lack of success in developing and promoting our employees, we are lead to believe that the deputy ministers are generally very effective in their work.

Therefore, we recommend that the human resource issues should have a much greater emphasis in a deputy minister's evaluation.

Human Resource Recommendation 2 - We recommend that the current guidelines requiring completion of performance reviews annually should be enforced.

Annual performance evaluations should be a valuable part of the staff development process. A performance evaluation is a concrete tool for staff development and training needs identification. It ensures regular feedback to employees and managers about each person's work. It also provides an opportunity for managers to meet with staff to identify areas where training or other development options would increase the employee's ability to contribute to the organization and achieve professional growth.

Regular evaluations should also provide an opportunity to identify concerns of employees before they reach the point where the employee quits. Given the high rate of turnover, particularly among first year aboriginal employees, these evaluations can be used to catch a problem before it gets out of hand.

Performance Appraisal Completion Rates

1996

Executive

5.4%

FMBS

6.0%

Finance

61.0%

MACA

26.7%

Transportation

9.8%

Public Works & Services

8.0%

Health & Social Services

9.2%

Renewable Resources

4.3%

Justice

68.6%

Economic Development & Tourism

7.0%

Education, Culture & Employment

1.0%

Safety & Public Services

14.3%

Energy, Mines & Petroleum Products

0%

Legislative Assembly

0%

The completion rates may be slightly lower because departments finish the appraisals but do not bother to enter them on the Government's Human Resource System. However, our information would tend to suggest that many employees just do not get reviews.

In reality, many employees view the appraisal process as threatening. It is often used to document performance problems and is seen as part of the disciplinary process rather than as a positive review and plan for growth. This perception is in part because appraisals are the exception rather than the rule for many staff.

The performance development system guidelines in the GNWT Human Resource manual provide for yearly reviews of all employees. There are also requirements for a review when an employee or supervisor leaves a position. These guidelines should be followed by all managers.

Giving all employees regular feedback is important. The completion rates for these reviews should be provided to the standing committees as outlined in Human Resource Recommendation 1. They should also form part of the evaluation of deputy minister performance.

The current performance evaluation process requires the use of a generic form. Some managers ignore the forms and use letters or a checklist, some have trouble with the compatibility of the electronic version of the form, and most do not complete the appraisals at all. We discussed this at length and believe there should be some consistency in evaluation format. However, there should be flexibility to allow departments to work with the FMBS to develop alternate evaluation forms where there is a specific need.

Human Resource Recommendation 3 - We recommend that managers work closely with staff to provide career development for all employees.

Staff development and training is the key to creating a highly skilled and effective workforce. It provides employees with personal and professional growth so they have a chance to progress through the organization. It also provides the organization with employees better able to cope with changing demands and increased workload.

Career development is not a one-way street. Both the employee and employer have a responsibility to identify development opportunities. We need to ensure the government's corporate culture allows everyone to fulfil that responsibility.

In implementing the Affirmative Action Policy, the GNWT has concentrated on hiring. At the present time, once the government has hired someone, opportunities for staff development seem to be hit and miss. If affirmative action is to be successful, it is also necessary to support the professional development of staff. This needs to be done in a planned way, with the employee and manager jointly setting a course of action.

As the most recent statistics show, the government has not been successful in moving affirmative action employees up in the organization beyond entry level positions. There is a perception that these employees have less access to staff training and development. This may be because they are less likely to be direct in asking for it. The corporate culture may support the "squeaky wheel" over those who are less forward.

While it is important to provide staff development to support affirmative action, these opportunities must also be available to all staff. A good employee is one who is growing and learning on the job. Sharing these opportunities with all employees makes good business sense.

Managers and employees should be aware of and support the importance of career development. They should be reminded that it is much broader than training courses. It can include elements such as acting appointments, special assignments, lateral transfers, mentor arrangements, and on-the-job training.

Human Resource Recommendation 4 - We recommend departments develop on-the-job training positions in areas where there is currently a low rate of affirmative action representation.

The government has a history of on-the-job training programs. The most recent is the Public Service Career Training Program. However, the success rate has not been good for a number of reasons: -Candidates were selected through an elaborate central process ;

-People were expected to train themselves out of a job;

-They were run as open competitions rather than being used for a specific individual in a department where the manager wanted to develop potential;

-Some people just were not good trainers, no matter how many train-the-trainer courses they took;

-The need for a balance between practical experience and formal education was not always adequately outlined; and

-Employees were occasionally required to complete parts of the program outside work hours.

On-the-job training is one of the only ways mature individuals will be able to enter the more senior levels of government without a strong post-secondary background. Until there is a generation who have post-secondary education supplemented by work experience, practical on-the-job training may provide the best opportunity to promote affirmative action candidates into professional and managerial positions.

On-the-job training needs to be one of the tools used by departments in developing staff potential. Each department should have a small number of positions available for on-the-job training. Sometimes departments should develop training positions in areas where there is currently a low rate of affirmative action representation. Other times, they should be created to provide a developmental assignment for a high potential staff member.

The GNWT has offered different forms of training positions in the past and can build on the lessons learned. The most important lesson is that these positions should be developed and driven by departments, rather than through a central authority.

We recognize that this recommendation may take slightly longer to develop and implement.

That was the last recommendation in that particular area and the rest of the recommendations are for the future. Those were the only ones I wanted to outline at this particular time. I would urge everyone to read the report. As Ed had said, it is a very good report that makes for good reading. At this time I would ask if there are any further questions on this particular area?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Are there any questions from the Members on this particular area? Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to point out that the recommendations, as we indicated earlier, are very doable. A majority of them are not monetary recommendations and in fact are just fundamental, basic good management along the human resource areas. It is just a matter of implementing what should already be there in terms of a process. Some of the numbers, in terms of performance appraisals, are very dismal. Without something fundamental like a yearly appraisal, it is very difficult to do career planning. It is very difficult to be able to speak to the employees shortcomings or strengths and plan for their future. There are simple things that can be done. The question is just the will to do it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize Mr. Ineak Korgak from Iqaluit on behalf of the Member from Iqaluit, Ed Picco. Mr. Ootes, you have questions on this particular section?

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think there are some really good recommendations here. Our staff are a very valuable resource and we need to pay attention to them and invest in them. I think these recommendations do address that. In the last session, I addressed the whole question of where are the statistics to show where the affirmative action needs to apply and where it does not need to apply. I think that is a question I have for Mr. Erasmus or one of his members. Does this document address that particular question and can we therefore look forward to getting some answers in the area of knowing what departments are representative of the territorial population and what sections and what areas. That is of concern to me, to be able to address the whole question of affirmative action. Where do we need to apply it? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Erasmus, do you wish to respond?

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Obviously it has to be applied throughout the government. Every department should attain their goals. What we are talking about is representative government. If a government is representative of the population that it serves, then that means that every department should try to attain the goal which would be set for that particular region. That means from top to bottom. From secretaries to deputy minsters.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Miltenberger, do you wish to ask a question or respond to the original question?

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the question that Mr. Ootes asked is a good one and it is going to require that the government fine tune its information systems on affirmative action. I am sure the Minister of Health will be taking copious notes to take to the rest of his absent colleagues. The key is, in fact, we do need clear statistics on the different departments and occupational areas. It is not easy to get. I do not think it is printed off. It is like other information we had in terms of positions, when we were trying to find out job cuts. It is not something that the government has the systems in place to do right now. We are making that issue with them and they can pull it together. It is a good point. If we are going to make these changes work, we need accurate information so we can move the focus around where it is needed. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Are there any questions to the chair of the committee on this

particular section? If not, Mr. Erasmus, could you proceed to the final section?

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just in closing, I wanted to indicate that the recommendations build on each other. We would not want to see just a few recommendations implemented in isolation of the others. For instance, setting goals for occupational occupations and regions. It would not do just to put that into place without these other recommendations that we are making because, as I say, they are meant to complement each other. With that, we are looking forward to receiving the government's reply. I have a motion that I would like to move, unless there are questions or comments.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Perhaps if we moved the motion, I could ask Members now if they would like to make general comments on the whole report and after that process is finished, we could entertain your motion. Does the committee agree? I would then ask for general comments on the whole report. Mr. Henry. Before I recognize Mr. Henry, could I remind Members to refrain from referring to other Members by their first names and to refrain from referring to the absence of Members from the House. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Erasmus opened his remarks by stating that all Members endorsed this report. There will be many members of the public who will not take the time to pick up this particular report, so I would like to advise him that there is in fact a minority report at the end of this particular document. I believe, in this House I have stated my position on the Affirmative Action Policy and it is on record in this House. I have also stated that it has been, and I think still continues to be, one of the most divisive products that this government has put in place.

Mr. Chairman, in 1989, the Government of the NWT implemented a policy to have a public service that is representative of the population it serves. This policy is known as the Affirmative Action Policy. In 1994/95, the previous government commissioned a review of this policy. FMBS personnel conducted this work. This review was to provide data, review results, and recommend options for the future. A report was compiled in June of 1996 listing 25 recommendations for change. When this report was presented to the Standing Committee on Government Operations, it was rejected and sent back to the department. A second report was prepared, but the committee still did not like its contents, so Government Operations struck a sub-committee to do its own review of the Affirmative Action Policy and prepare its own report. The May 1997 report, entitled Report of the Working Group on Affirmative Action and Human Resource Management, forms the recommendation of that working group.

Mr. Chairman, the sad thing about the Affirmative Action Policy is the difference of opinion that exists between ordinary Members and Cabinet Members. These two groups are not united in the fundamental philosophy and purpose of the Affirmative Action Policy. We have witnessed a hiring of senior officials who were not hired using affirmative action criteria, but on hiring the best person for the job. We have empowered the present government to run our territory. On a number of occasions they have asked us not to tie their hands. I can sympathize with that request. As an employer, I could not care less what colour or gender an individual is. I just want to ensure that they can do the job and provide the best service to my customers. Mr. Steen talked yesterday about a number of heavy equipment operators trained in the north. When we have these employees, why do employers like Robinsons Trucking go south for their employee needs? We must ask the hard questions. Why are employers who know the people, who can save money by not having to provide accommodation, relocation costs, go south to hire employees? We have to find the answer to the root of this. I suspect that one reason is that northern employees are not knocking down the doors of the employers looking for work. This and many more questions have to be explored and answered.

Our senior government bureaucracy has been referred to as an old boys' club. I look forward to finding out what name will be given to businesses who cannot attract and hire northerners. These so called southern workers referred to by Mr. Steen have learned to do what we in the north still have to learn, get up in the morning, get to the employer's door and tell them you are ready and willing to provide a decent day's work for a decent day's pay, not only today but everyday.

The Honourable Ms. Thompson, Minister of MACA, is a champion of women's rights. She publicly denounced gender parity for Nunavut and stood her ground on not filling elected positions based on gender. This same honourable Minister has filled senior personnel positions in her department from the south and by her action has denounced the government's policy of affirmative action. I remember Ms. Thompson telling me in this House that she hired the best person for the job based on their abilities and qualifications. I commend this Minister and others for hiring the most qualified people to do the work within this government. We need and deserve and want the best person for the job. Taxpayers deserve and demand that they get the best value for the dollars spent.

This government is charged by us to run this territory. There has been a great deal of time spent on the Affirmative Action Policy. Two revised reports have been prepared. Mr. Chairman, this government has recognized the dividing factors of the Affirmative Action Policy and would prefer not to have to deal with them. Until we deal with the fundamental root of the matter, we will never agree. Mr. Chairman, the only term cure by a bureaucracy which is committed to putting all our energies and resources into ensuring a healthy society will resolve the problems the Affirmative Action Policy was supposed to resolve. We must ensure a population for the future of the NWT which is producing healthy children who are nurtured and educated, who in turn will secure their own place in the workforce. Until we can do this, Mr. Chairman, we will continue to have a hiring policy which will forever plague us with problems. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Henry. General comments. Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think I hear the voice of Reform.

-- Laughter

Mr. Chairman, I think the Affirmative Action Policy has, in the past, been very divisive and I think it is not only because of the policy but because of the implementation of it so anything we put forward, we have to make sure that the implementation of what is being put forward is a good effort to start putting people in places. Hopefully we are going to do that with without just aiming at numbers, but do it on the quality of the people put forward and I do believe we have the quality of people in the Northwest Territories to fill those positions.

Mr. Chairman, I think that there is a lot of concern out there every time this issue comes forward and it is sensitive and I think the committee has gone a long way trying to address the issues of affirmative action and I think that the work is good. But there are areas of concern when it comes to implementation, that if we are going to set numbers that we make sure we set them on quality of those people filling positions, not just filling positions and I am sure Mr. Todd would agree with that, that we fill positions with quality personnel. We do not want to set people up for failure. We do not want to put people in positions where they would become unhappy in their position and be labelled as non-performers because they have been put in a position that they were not ready to fill just for the sake of filling them. I believe that if the approach is taken right that we can and will show that there are qualified personnel in the Northwest Territories, whether long term, aboriginal, or other that can do the job.

As an aboriginal myself, when I went through the system as the policy first got brought in, I was concerned and I did not like the idea that people looked at me as getting a job because of the colour of my skin or the background I came from. I believe, as most aboriginals in the territories, when we get a job we believe we have done it on our merits and that we can do the job to the best of our ability as long as we are given clear guidelines as to what we are doing. I think that hopefully this process will start putting those pieces of the puzzle into place. Those are important because if we only put parts of a puzzle together, there are still holes and gaps and that is where people fall through and that is where the problems start. So hopefully, as this is being reviewed, it is reviewed in total as we heard earlier and not just pieces of this put together because it is difficult to change direction and attitudes of people and I am sure we will be working for quite some time, even probably until the day that Members of this Assembly are no longer within government we will still be trying to correct attitudes of the people.

I think the people of the Northwest Territories have come a long way in the short time we have been educated, as some people would think. It has been two different lifestyles, from what was to what is today, from my father's generation to my generation, and I think we have come a long way and we should not put that down. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

-- Applause

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. I have Mr. Krutko, Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Steen. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regards to the policy and also the economic conditions we find ourselves in statistically, we all have all a snapshot of exactly who is most affected in the north yet the majority of the population are the ones who are most in demand when it comes to unemployment, social statistics, crime. Yet we make comments in this House that people cannot get up in the morning to go to work. Well, in my region I have worked with many people in the oil patch. One time we had full native crews working in the Beaufort, people working on building man-made islands were aboriginal people. Yet the same people I worked with in the 1970s and 1980s are unemployed, not for a matter of two to three years, we are talking five to ten years. These people have been getting up in the morning looking for work, yet the work is not there.

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An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

For us to make comments in this House about people who are lazy, cannot get up in the morning is basically stating to the public that we represent that the way the system works, let it continue to roll the way it is and keep going to welfare offices. Go back day after day looking for a job, and keep building up those statistics. I believe that is what we are saying when we make the comments that we do in this House without thinking about implications or effects, not just people where they have an economic boom but those people who do not have that opportunity any more.

With regards to the Affirmative Action Policy, I commend people who have worked on it and the ones who have supported the efforts that they have made. But I believe the reason for the review is because the old policy has not worked to date. In order for us to get ahead, we have to allow this government to take the direction that we are giving through these recommendations, carry it forth and allow us to move forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I have Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Steen. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will be brief. I would like to congratulate the Members of the working group that offered this report. I strongly believe that it is a worthwhile report and I am sure it will show the benefits to the people in my region down the road. In particular, there are three recommendations that were made by the report:

1. representation goals by occupational grouping and regions should be set;

2. there should be an annual assessment of hiring priorities and occupational groups in a region where representation goals have been reached, hiring priority would not apply; and, 3. representation for headquarters should reflect the entire NWT. I think that is a key area.

Once again, Mr. Chairman, I believe the report is an excellent one and I think the Members did a great job. Thank you.

-- Applause

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before I go forward with my comments on the report, I would like to move a motion that we finish the agenda.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Are you making a motion to extend the sitting hour until we finish the item on the table? Thank you.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, if that is the proper wording, yes.

-- Laughter

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen has indicated he is making a motion to extend the sitting hours until we finish the item under item 19, Committee Report 7-13(4). The motion is in order. It is not debateable. All those in favour? Down. Opposed? The motion is carried. We will deal with the item on the table until it is concluded and extend the hours until the item is concluded. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my general comments on the overall report and Affirmative Action Policy itself, the existing one even. First of all, I have always been under the understanding that affirmative action policies in other parts of the country, including the States, was created primarily to address the shortfalls from minority groups. In other words, to address women and the lack of opportunities for aboriginal or coloured people. This is an interesting observation because I have been told time and time again that as an aboriginal person, I am one of the majority in this territory. That brings to my mind the question as to who is the minority? It would have to be those people that I am asking to recognize me.

There has always been a question in my mind whether affirmative action really addresses the problem. Are we in fact making opportunities for minority groups who, we have been told, is the aboriginals and the women's groups? I am not sure about the women, as far as their numbers versus men in the territories, but if we see, no doubt, the argument put forward that there are more men employed than women, then we have a justification for the policy. However, if we cannot confirm that as a majority group we do not have the majority number of aboriginals employed and we are the majority in this legislature are we really going to address this problem through affirmative action or is it some other shortfall that we are not particularly paying attention to here? That is one of my observations that I have many times had a problem with supporting affirmative action because of that particular point.

If we take that one step further and as an aboriginal person I sit back and I say to myself, well fine, they have recognized me, they have suggested that I am going to have preferential rights here, I would then have to ask myself, what is a northerner? This question has been asked many times before because then as an aboriginal person, I sit back, because I do not qualify as a northerner obviously. Because if I am an aboriginal person, then I am not a northerner. I sit back and I wonder and I watch people from outside the territory who cannot claim aboriginal rights to the territory creating special groups of people amongst themselves, special rights for themselves. Some would back that up with the argument, well, I was born here. The other ones would back up with the argument, well, I lived here for ten years. The other guy would say well, I have you beat, I have been here for 12 years.

Where do we draw this line? I cannot help remembering way back when Dome Petroleum addressed the same particular problem in the Beaufort Sea. They took this problem to what at that time was called the Beaufort Sea Committee to address how do we divide the work up in the Beaufort to address this particular problem. In other words, there were local people saying, we should have priority to the job, and then there was Inuvik saying, we should have priority to the job. Then it went all the way to Edmonton. The interesting part about this whole thing is that the natives themselves really did not define themselves as Dene, Inuit, Inuvialuit, Metis, we are all classed as aboriginals. There is only one class. No matter where you come from. From the southerners point of view, they created all kinds of classes. Obviously, the next question that is going to come up here is, fine, you are a northerner. You belong to the territories. Well, we have already seen in the Business Incentive Policy where belonging to the territories was not good enough. We decided to divide that into regions so that the guy living in the region has more benefits than the guy living outside the region. Where is this thing going to stop? We must take this into consideration.

I believe, personally, that a person should be judged on their merit. Whether they can do the job or not. That is all it should be based on because otherwise we are going to have a heck of a pile of classifications of people. Let me give you an example of how they tried to resolve this in the Beaufort Sea. I recall the specific problem was that a northerner, a guy who classified himself as a northerner, believed that he had just as much right to do business with Dome Petroleum as a native person does. They both lived in the same area. They both did the same job. His argument was that he should have just as much right to the job as the native. He said, although I live up in the area, I go south every year for a holiday, I do feel that I am entitled to equal right with the aboriginal person from Tuktoyaktuk.

I recall a fellow resolving it this way. He said in his observations that he compared these two people to a raven and a seagull. Now, we all know that the raven and seagull both do the same job. They both clean the dump. They work side by side. No problem. We also all know that the raven stays year round, no problem. What about that seagull? He flies south every year, then he comes back into a job again.

The interesting part about it is that no matter how many times the seagull came back, he never did become a crow or a raven. So the fellow decided, and it seemed to make sense, that there are differences amongst races that is nothing created by people, by man. They are created by somebody else and they should be recognized. Man made differences are very hard to address because they do not seem to be based on much except personal preferences and the ability to butter your own bread. We then turned this thing over to our very educated deputy minsters and administrators to try and resolve the problem to the satisfaction of everybody. Obviously this is never going to be done. I, for one, cannot see where a person from the south can justify calling himself a northerner just because he lives up here. Whether he is born here or lives here does not make him any different because if you really look at him, if he comes from Manitoba, for instance, he can always move back to Manitoba and have the same rights that he had when he left there. Why should he get special ones up here?

That question has to be addressed and I do not think we are going to resolve the Affirmative Action Policy problems. We are not going to resolve the problem of having more aboriginals in the work force except through what Mr. Erasmus has said time and time again, training and education and imparting onto our children that it is important that you go to work, it is important that you go to your job. The option of working and going hunting at the same time is gone. I enjoyed that option, but I have to tell my children it is not there for them any more. I would prefer to do that rather than to see my child hired simply because he is coloured. Simply because he is a native. I would be insulted if I was hired simply because I am a native. I think that we should be hired on our merits and nothing else and we would save a lot of time in this House and arguing with our Ministers and our deputy ministers about whether they are doing it properly or not. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. That was a heck of a statement. I would remind all Members to try and refrain from using inappropriate terms in this House. Thank you. Any further general comments from the Members. Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my impression that there are a lot of good recommendations here and especially with respect to improving the public service and the human resource sector that we have. As I said earlier, they are very valuable to us and we need to concentrate on them and improve and provide opportunities for them to improve. With regard to the affirmative action area, I do have questions and problems with certain areas. For instance, Mr. Henry also referred to the fact that representation is based on population rather than the labour force. I am not sure that you can go by, in my opinion, just general population and make it representative according to that because I am not sure we are going to get the number of qualified people to be able to fill the positions, but if you go according to at least identifying a labour force, then I think that makes statistically a lot more sense.

Also, in the area of representation, I have referred to that before, it is easy to have a blanket policy across the NWT government, but I think there are areas where we have succeeded in the government with representative labour force and there are other we do not but we need to analyze why we do not. We cannot just say, well, management should be made up of all women or all aboriginal. We need to address why they are not represented according to qualifications. There are areas where it is impossible to fill with northerners because we just do not have them. We do not have enough people that qualify in certain areas. You cannot tell me that you can fill doctors, lawyers, fire, medical, a lot of the technical positions. It will take years.

That leads me to my final point. I think this is all based upon getting our population up to speed with education and qualifications. Once we have that in our population, we heard statistics and we all know them. The education of a lot of our people is just not there. It is not there. So how can we say, well, we have to put these people into a lot of these positions. I think, when we get the qualifications for people, and Mr. Erasmus is a very good proponent for this, he keeps hammering away at the fact that we have to get our people up to speed on education. He is absolutely right. We have to get people up there. But I have a problem in that end when we deal with the affirmative action to generally say we have to have a representative work force when perhaps we do not have the qualified people in many areas. I break it down according to statistics. I do not have a breakdown so I have problems with this whole thing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to say I congratulate the committee because it is good work in many areas here and the Cabinet should pay attention to a lot of these recommendations, but there are areas, as I say, that I have a problem with. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to make a couple of concluding comments so that hopefully I am on record and very clear on this issue. About 30 years ago the government moved north from Ottawa and along with it came plane loads of people to run that government for us. Since that time, in my opinion, we have been on a quest for a responsible government. Part of that entails trying to achieve a representative work force which we are working towards. We are not there yet, but this report is another small step in that direction. If people will read this they will see that in fact merit is a key component. We are not talking about hiring people just because they are aboriginal women, regardless of their qualifications, just to have them in place as a token. I mean we are trying to do some very serious work and I think that should be recognized. To do that, we need structures that are supportive of that kind of process and we do need a workforce that is trained and educated. That is another whole area that we have to address.

Clearly, we still have work to do and I do not think anybody can deny that. To try to make demeaning comments about the work ethic of people because of who they are, I think has no place in this kind of debate. The north was built far long before civil servants came north by the people who lived here. They lived here for thousands of years and they did a fine job.

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Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

In fact, what we are trying to do I think is to make up for the mistakes made by people that came here with no clear understanding of what they were getting into in making decisions on behalf of people that they were not really, in my opinion, in hindsight, qualified to make. Now I think we are moving the right way and I hope Cabinet will receive this in the spirit in which it is intended. In fact, we think all people that live and work in the north here have a lot of capability, we just have to work with them to achieve that. Thank you.

-- Applause

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Any further general comments on Committee Report 7-13(4)? If not, I would like to recognize now Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I started speaking today, I indicated that the Government Operations Committee adopted this report. I did not indicate that the people who worked on the report endorsed every word. I am glad that Mr. Henry reminded me that he did have a minority opinion on several areas and it is in here. But if we go back to Hansard, I am sure people would also know that Mr. Henry has consistently spoken against affirmative action so it should come as no surprise. Although we welcome his comments in our deliberations, it is always good to have two points of view when you are trying to come up with a report or struggle through issues.

Similar to Mr. Miltenberger, I want to stress that we are not talking about filling positions by aboriginal people, or northerners, or women, or whomever just for the sake of filling positions. We are talking about people having to be qualified first. That is the way it is supposed to be today and that is the way we envision it in the future, that people should be qualified for a position before they are even interviewed unless they are very, very close. If they are very close then perhaps they can be interviewed and if they show they can handle the job with very minimal training then perhaps we can fill that way also but people have to be qualified first. They have to indicate they can handle the position. We are not talking about hiring people just because of their colour, we are talking about merit all the way through.

On the issue of basing affirmative action on the labour force instead of the population, Mr. Chairman, the simple answer to that is we are talking about a workforce that is representative of the people it serves, not representative of the people who are of working age or not even of working age but who decide that they want to work.

-- Applause

There are many people out there who do not work but they are still people. We are talking about the public service being representative of the people it serves.

There was also mention about there are areas where representation has gone way over. Yes, I have to agree that there were a couple of areas. One of them was DPW and what did we do? We fired everybody in there that was affirmative action, basically. I should not say we fired, I guess we laid them off so that area no longer exists. There are obviously areas where there are no qualified people and we are not saying to hire unqualified people to fill those areas. We are saying that if there are no qualified people in that area to fill those breaches then you simply have to wait. The affirmative action goal will not be filled until there are qualified people to fill that breach. You just cannot simply say that because we do not have qualified people that all we are going to do is educate people. You have to put both into place, affirmative action as well as the educational plan. At the same time, you cannot just say well, we are going to educate the kids and forget about the adults. You have to do both as well. You have to educate the young people as well as the people who are currently adults so that they, too, can get an opportunity at jobs and we can get them off the welfare lines as well as everybody else.

Mr. Chairman, I guess if I have the concluding remarks, then that concludes the standing committee's comments and review of this report and I would therefore move that the Premier provide a report to the Standing Committee on Government Operations by September 22, 1997 outlining the government's response and action taken with respect to the recommendations contained in this report. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I am informed that a copy of the motion has been circulated to Members. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. Down. Opposed? The motion is carried.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus, thank you Members. Does the committee agree that consideration of the Committee Report 7-13(4) is concluded?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The consideration of Committee Report 7-13(4) is concluded and I will rise and report progress. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. We are on item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, good evening. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Committee Report 7-13(4) and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted and that consideration of Committee Report 7-13(4) is concluded and, Mr. Speaker, I

move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Seconded by Mr. Enuaraq. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Ng.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2 be read for the third time. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 18 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, that Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act, be read for the third time. Thank you.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 16 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, could you ascertain if the Deputy Commissioner is prepared to enter the chamber and assent to Bills?

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

Deputy Commissioner Marion

I have a message from Commissioner Helen Maksagak. She wishes every Member a safe journey to your home communities. As Deputy Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, it gives me a great pleasure to assent to the following Bills: Bill 13, Miscellaneous Tax Amendment Act, 1997; Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1997-98; Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Act; Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act and Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurances Services Act, No. 2. I thank you.

-- Applause

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I would like to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I will ask the Member if he will rephrase his question to seek unanimous consent from the Members to go back to item 5.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to seek unanimous consent to return to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The Member for Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Do we have any nays? Mr. Erasmus, you have unanimous consent.

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1344

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a very good looking young man in the audience who I heard takes after his father.

-- Laughter

Roy Erasmus Junior.

-- Applause

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Enuaraq.

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1344

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize James Alliak and Billy Nokisak. Thank you.

-- Applause

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1344

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1344

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meetings for tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure, at 10:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development, at 12:00 noon of the Nunavut Caucus, and at 1:30 p.m. of the full Caucus.

Orders of the day for Wednesday, October 1, 1997:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address 10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills.

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1345

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Prior to adjourning this session that seems to have gone on forever, as noted by Mr. Ningark, it began on November 27, 1996, I would like to express my appreciation to the Members, to the Member for Natilikmiot, the Deputy Speaker Mr. Ningark, for sitting in for me during my recent illness. I would like to express our appreciation to Mr. Jay Bran who had the honour of being the first status person to carry the mace in this Assembly and maybe in Canada.

-- Applause

While we are on the subject of the mace, I would also like to thank the four elders who came in from Cape Dorset and also the two women from Fort Providence. As always, on your behalf, our thanks goes to the Clerk and his staff who continue to do their best to assist us.

-- Applause

The interpreters and the translators continue to provide exceptional services, for which we thank them.

-- Applause

The catering staff who have been good. Our sound and television technicians and last, but by no means least, the Pages from Iqaluit and Scouts from Yellowknife.

-- Applause

As you head back home to the joys of the summer season, I hope your travels will be safe. I would like to join my colleague, the Minister of Transportation, in promoting safe practices on the water. Enjoy the weather in each of your constituencies, relax and remember to have an accident-free boating season this year. See you in October.

-- Applause

This House stands adjourned until October 1, 1997 at 1:30 p.m.

-- ADJOURNMENT